|
Proto Cloud posted:Yeah, I liked Isabeau a lot, she's a fun little character that I could only imagine would be a total dork in another life. It's kind of funny she's enjoying what seems to be a run-of-the-mill manga.
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
Yeah, looks about the right amount of generic. The Jane Austen of anime.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
Adding to the odd characterizations on the endgame it was really dissapointing how Lucifer was your run of the mill demonic overlord, without nothing of the ambiguity and charisma than made him so interesting on the previous entries of the series (the generic desgin didn't help either)
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Adding to the odd characterizations on the endgame it was really dissapointing how Lucifer was your run of the mill demonic overlord, without nothing of the ambiguity and charisma than made him so interesting on the previous entries of the series (the generic desgin didn't help either) Chaos route spoilers: You got to admit that the one schoolgirl in the game being just Lucifer in disguise was pretty funny. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
Oh that poo poo's absolutely hysterical and when I heard he was that, I knew the game's version of him could never live up to that reveal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
There's supposedly going to be a limited edition 3DSXL released in Japan bundled with Persona Q. Guess I know what I'll be spending money on later this year. Here's the source. Relevant Translation is roughly "Information about a limited edition design 3DSLL Set has been announced."
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
laplace posted:There's supposedly going to be a limited edition 3DSXL released in Japan bundled with Persona Q. Guess I know what I'll be spending money on later this year. It's been mentioned a couple of places now. Maybe not here since when that was announced we had just gotten our own Persona 5 Arena DanceQ announcements. Too bad it's probably not going to make it over like the SMT IV one. There's also supposed to be a poster they're keeping under wraps until closer to release.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Adding to the odd characterizations on the endgame it was really dissapointing how Lucifer was your run of the mill demonic overlord, without nothing of the ambiguity and charisma than made him so interesting on the previous entries of the series (the generic desgin didn't help either) Well, what did you expect that would happen after having witnessed the unadulterated can of  that the Demi-Fiend unleashed? Dude needed to start stepping up his game, too bad he was still kind of rusty; if anything, it makes sense.vvvv drat straight! Oscar 
Wark Say fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:26
|
|
|
Proto Cloud posted:Yeah, looks about the right amount of generic. The Jane Austen of anime. That's quite possibly the worst description of Rose of Versailles I have ever heard. Wow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Devil Survivor: Abel. A bel 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
Dehry posted:It's been announced with a trailer. Devil Survivor 2 Break Record will be released Has anyone identified the constellation on the cover yet? Offhand, it looks like the Winter Triangle, but I don't have much knowledge in that area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
Wark Say posted:Well, what did you expect that would happen after having witnessed the unadulterated can of You could say than I miss the fact than before either faction had something to go for it when in SMTIV they made pretty clear than Neutral is the only good one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Maybe But old Lucifer wasn't petty (or at least he hid it very well), a graceful loser and his arguments made kind of sense. SMT IV was a straight up maniac than goes on kill mode when things doesn't go his way and you can't really accept than he got a point on his rants Lucifer's never really been that friendly to those who oppose him. See SMT1's Neutral/Law paths, where he sends you off to get murdered by Beelzebub.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
See, and I found Isabeau to be a much stronger character in the Law and Chaos routes, where she makes the decision to stand for her beliefs and fight against you. I was really looking forward to Neutral so I saved it for last, but then Isabeau is basically sitting there waiting for Flynn to lead her around, waiting for Fujiwara to tell her what to think, and cheerleading for Flynn throughout the whole Champion business. Maybe if they'd done more with the implied romantic attraction between the two things would have felt different, but we can't have mainline SMT heroes emoting or communicating much.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
Weren't the first two Mega Tens pretty clear about Law and Chaos being both totally evil and Neutral being the only good option? It wasn't until like Nocturne where the series started to paint Lucifer as a morally grey character trying to stop YVWH's dickery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:19
|
|
|
Accordion Man posted:Weren't the first two Mega Tens pretty clear about Law and Chaos being both totally evil and Neutral being the only good option? It wasn't until like Nocturne where the series started to paint Lucifer as a morally grey character trying to stop YVWH's dickery. Is been a while since I last played but I seem to remember than SMT2 started the trend of YVWH being a colossal rear end in a top hat with Lucifer being a freedom fighter of sorts
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
Absolutely. I do find it really hilarious just how poo poo keeps backfiring right on his face. I'd like to imagine that, after a while, even in Nocturne he started to lose a lot of his mojo with the demon crowd when they realized that this young buck walking around in shorts was basically where it's at. Hell, doesn't Beelzebub end up joining you right after you defeat him in SMTI?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
Wark Say posted:Hell, doesn't Beelzebub end up joining you right after you defeat him in SMTI? Nope. He only joins you if you're on the Chaos path, and he does that without a fight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:31
|
|
|
Accordion Man posted:Weren't the first two Mega Tens pretty clear about Law and Chaos being both totally evil and Neutral being the only good option? It wasn't until like Nocturne where the series started to paint Lucifer as a morally grey character trying to stop YVWH's dickery. Literally every SMT game paints Chaos and Law as absolutely lovely sides. Lucifer is also not painted as anything resembling a reasonable or nice guy in any game except maybe Raidou 2 where he's pretty affable and even he's responsible for stuff to some extent. He always makes a point of saying something along the lines of "I don't really care about humanity, but I'm not going to abandon you like HE did." Which of course makes Lucifer comes across as very prideful and arrogant, since he's basically insinuating he's saving humans. SMTIV is legitimately the first SMT game that says god isn't an outright piece of poo poo unlike the previous games and the angels are acting by themselves, but even the Ancient of Days DLC basically has God say to everyone in Blasted Tokyo, "I'm going to wipe every one of you from the face of the Earth." It's why I love SMTIV's neutral ending so much, because it's the only Neutral ending where the main character, his remaining allies, and even his sentient gear all give one unified finger to every alignment, even the White, who Burroughs outright tells to gently caress off. Them Masakado splits open the dome as all of humanity gets to see daylight once again. SMT games are very unambiguous about what is and isn't the good side.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Saigyouji posted:Nope. He only joins you if you're on the Chaos path, and he does that without a fight. The only big downside to the Chaos route, 'cause you miss out on the hardest and best boss fight in the game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Not that SMTI was that hard overall. Its difficulty was more the Bard's Tale kind where you could run into 8 enemies at once right off the bat when it's just you and a Pixie, but then just autobattle the entire game once you're built up to a certain reasonable level.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
One thing I think is silly about the SMT games I have played so far is that the demons on the main character's are non-entities. I mean in Devil Survivor I was kinda dissapointed that putting Yama and Keisuke together elicits no response from anyone.Sex_Ferguson posted:Literally every SMT game paints Chaos and Law as absolutely lovely sides. Lucifer is also not painted as anything resembling a reasonable or nice guy in any game except maybe Raidou 2 where he's pretty affable and even he's responsible for stuff to some extent. He always makes a point of saying something along the lines of "I don't really care about humanity, but I'm not going to abandon you like HE did." Which of course makes Lucifer comes across as very prideful and arrogant, since he's basically insinuating he's saving humans. SMTIV is legitimately the first SMT game that says god isn't an outright piece of poo poo unlike the previous games and the angels are acting by themselves, but even the Ancient of Days DLC basically has God say to everyone in Blasted Tokyo, "I'm going to wipe every one of you from the face of the Earth." SMT is Japanese South Park.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
Seyser Koze posted:Not that SMTI was that hard overall. Its difficulty was more the Bard's Tale kind where you could run into 8 enemies at once right off the bat when it's just you and a Pixie, but then just autobattle the entire game once you're built up to a certain reasonable level. Don't forget about charm bullets. Once you get those there's really nothing that can stand in your way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Sex_Ferguson posted:Literally every SMT game paints Chaos and Law as absolutely lovely sides. Lucifer is also not painted as anything resembling a reasonable or nice guy in any game except maybe Raidou 2 where he's pretty affable and even he's responsible for stuff to some extent. He always makes a point of saying something along the lines of "I don't really care about humanity, but I'm not going to abandon you like HE did." Which of course makes Lucifer comes across as very prideful and arrogant, since he's basically insinuating he's saving humans. SMTIV is legitimately the first SMT game that says god isn't an outright piece of poo poo unlike the previous games and the angels are acting by themselves, but even the Ancient of Days DLC basically has God say to everyone in Blasted Tokyo, "I'm going to wipe every one of you from the face of the Earth." He's shown as being generally pretty reasonable and even a source of guidance and advice in Nocturne as well. Though even then, he's still clearly using the demi-fiend as a tool to oppose god, even if he does show favor to the demi-fiend in the true demon and restoration endings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
MoonwalkInvincible posted:He's shown as being generally pretty reasonable and even a source of guidance and advice in Nocturne as well. Though even then, he's still clearly using the demi-fiend as a tool to oppose god, even if he does show favor to the demi-fiend in the true demon and restoration endings. Isn't Lucifer shown as pretty reasonable in SMT2 as well? In the Chaos ending (IIRC), he congratulates you on helping the mutants underground and how they're no longer forced there, and they all thank you. Even on Neutral, he tells Aleph about how YHVH will destroy the humans and demons after beating him. Lucifer in general seems to keep flip-flopping between reasonable and a huge rear end in a top hat in like every SMT game anyways.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 00:52
|
|
|
I think it's worth noting that Lucifer can be both. He's Lucifer. The dude can be hugely pro-freedom and also a tremendous rear end in a top hat about getting that freedom. That's sort of what Chaos is in a nutshell.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I think it's worth noting that Lucifer can be both. He's Lucifer. The dude can be hugely pro-freedom and also a tremendous rear end in a top hat about getting that freedom. That's sort of what Chaos is in a nutshell.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
good game series f Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 12:12
|
|
|
Is that a Persona 5 demon design? Weird!
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 12:38
|
|
|
Is it a triple fusion between Mara, Belphegor and Orcus?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 12:41
|
|
|
I really liked SMT4 but yeah the endgame character progression (and the ending in general really) was just a bit, sudden. I did the Neutral path having already done most of the sidequests so it wasn't too bad, and I liked the worldbuilding and just how the world had become in general. I liked how in the "good" ending, you're not even saving the world. You're just reclaiming it and it's unclear where things will go from there, but it's still a step up from the alternatives MarsDragon posted:SMTI is getting an iOS release in English on March 18th. Is it anything resembling playable these days though?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 13:28
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Is it anything resembling playable these days though? I played it a couple of years ago and it was pretty alright. That said I did have the game on a nearly constant 1.5x speed in the emulator because god those old RPG's are slow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 13:42
|
|
|
Sex_Ferguson posted:Literally every SMT game paints Chaos and Law as absolutely lovely sides. And this is what makes their storylines boring beyond belief. It's absolutely incredible how one can take a solid idea (the games are supposed to be about human choice) and then proceed to run it into the ground because of an ideological axe to grind (by pulling out all the stops so that only one choice is made to look valid). Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Mar 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
Tallgeese posted:And this is what makes their storylines boring beyond belief. It's absolutely incredible how one can take a fundamentally good idea (the power of human choice) and then proceed to run it into the ground because of an ideological axe to grind (by pulling out all the stops so that only one choice is made to look good). Honestly, as much as a lot of other non-SMT RPGs with some grand moral choice try to make every one of them look acceptible, I've still never seen one where there isn't a clear best choice or neutral compromise that draws from the best of both worlds. I don't think that putting human choice into those grand stories about the fate of the world/universe is a fundamentally good idea at all, because based on all evidence so far, providing true and equal choices and outcomes is impossible, or at least so close to impossible that it isn't likely to happen any time soon. I enjoy SMT's overall stories specifically because of how bleak and disastrous they make the extreme choices look. It's refreshing to have something which says "these characters and their ideals are blatantly poo poo, but you're free to choose them anyway", as opposed to the mass effect style where being naive and law-abiding or an impatient murderer are both portrayed as perfectly valid and often even more beneficial than trying to make informed choices. I especially like Nocturne's three Reasons because where there would normally be a Neutral choice, there is instead insane social isolation, and even the restoration ending is more about having doomed your world to eventually fade away (and getting cursed by God) rather than having found a reasonable middle ground. Aside from the True Demon End, it's one of the closest things I've seen to having real choice based on your own beliefs, because every one of the available options is fantastical and extreme and far from ideal. lesbian baphomet fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Mar 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 14:03
|
|
|
I edited the post to change my wording to better express my intention. It's not about making all choices equally "good", but at least make the ones that are deemed as "bad" by the silly writers something other than a caricature. I do not think that it is too much to ask, especially if one of the stated ideas behind the storylines is supporting player choice. If anything, you technically agree with what I meant, since I would also accept an "all of these choices are really stupid and terrible" scenario. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 14:51
|
|
|
I thought Devil Survivor 1 and 2 were pretty good about giving good points to most choices. 1 also implied that God wasn't the dick responsible for all the poo poo but rather his angels who had done this of their own initiative.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 15:55
|
|
|
Painting Law / Chaos as fanatical is kinda the point. Pure chaos is asking for pure chaos and pure law wants pure law. They are literally YVHV (God in most cases) and Lucifer. If you're going to invoke those characters you cannot give them any driving forces except to go full left or full right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 16:42
|
|
|
The entire point of Lucifer coming off as reasonable in comparison to God is that he's the loving devil and swaying unknowing mortals to his cause with a silver tongue is as much a part of his traditional depiction as speaking as a voice from the heavens is for God. The SMT games in which he's much more appealing are just ones in which he's better written and that generally have a more coherent narrative arc. SMTIV is kind of bad in that regard, so Lucifer is just evil mcbadguy waiting around for you to kill him at the end. Noctourne is thematically tighter than practically any other SMT game, and so Lucifer is woven into the story well, to the point that blowing up the universe and ushering in an endless demonic age is sold to the player pretty effectively. It's still a terrible idea, but boy howdy does the player want to do it anyway! Just for once though, I'd like an SMT game in which the neutral ending is also the bad one, and where waffling around and basking in your own indecisive moral hubris results in far worse outcomes than an aligned path. Don't have the stones to make a real choice? Enjoy watching everything go to poo poo from your high horse, dickbag.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
PsychoInternetHawk posted:Just for once though, I'd like an SMT game in which the neutral ending is also the bad one, and where waffling around and basking in your own indecisive moral hubris results in far worse outcomes than an aligned path. Don't have the stones to make a real choice? Enjoy watching everything go to poo poo from your high horse, dickbag. That's pretty much the Yuzu ending to Devil Survivor, honestly. Although I guess that one's more well I'm too much of a wuss to make a choice, so gently caress the world, I'm just going to ruin everything because I'm too scared and indecisive to do anything else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 11:05 |
|
|
Fungah! posted:That's pretty much the Yuzu ending to Devil Survivor, honestly. Although I guess that one's more well I'm too much of a wuss to make a choice, so gently caress the world, I'm just going to ruin everything because I'm too scared and indecisive to do anything else. And then is made into a happy ending on Overclocked  (Man, I really wanted an excuse to use that emoticon)
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2014 19:19
|
|