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Whoa, this is the senate? Well, my father died, so I guess I'm a new senator or something? So...I guess I'll join a faction then.  I hear these guys throw great parties.
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Mar 1, 2014 19:42
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TheMcD posted:
 What madness is this? You, and all of the other advocates of "tolerance" are cowards, fools, blasphemers, and traitors to the Empire and God. You would see the population of this holy state dragged into hell for your own political gain? You would build mosques and synagogues here in the heart of the True Faith? No! It is an outrage! To not only allow, but to encourage, these disgusting and false beliefs not only condemns you, but this empire! Division is death, Senators! Not only of the soul, but of all worldly things! The more divided our empire becomes in the name of "tolerance," the weaker we, the pure, are! These acts will only encourage their views. They will rebel against us. Every citizen of the empire MUST be converted! Not only for their souls, but for all the souls to come! That is this empire's holy duty: to spread the true faith across the world, and to rule it in God's name until His return!
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Mar 1, 2014 19:55
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TheMcD posted:
 Steppes and Republics I concur that a policy of tolerance of religious views would be helpful in keeping the common masses from getting to violent. Roman history often states that the conquered people were allowed to keep their own religions as long as they respected the faith of the Roman state.
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Mar 1, 2014 20:03
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Permit me to say, I'm in favour of providing each non-Orthodox faith a place to congregate in. All these to-be converts gathered conveniently in one place, it's like a dream come true!
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Mar 1, 2014 20:06
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That was before the advent of the True Faith, senator. We should not be focusing our efforts on this unholy and all too temporary placation, but on the assimilation of all peoples into the loving arms of Christ. How can we be so cruel as to deny them this?
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Mar 1, 2014 20:07
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I should note I strongly think we should allow the Jewish members of the Empire some leeway. They are God's chosen people, and Judaism was the religion of the Son of God. It would be somewhat uncouth to force them to convert. And that isn't even getting into the fact that their merchants have bailed us out numerous times. Let them build a synagogue if they want. Screw the papists and Muslims, however.
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Mar 1, 2014 20:10
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What kind of tutors populate the empire? The religion of Christ was and is Christianity. All people are the chosen people, if they will only accept Him, and His Orthodox Church. The Jews do not do this. They are too proud of the favor God once showed them to realize that they squandered it. No, a better gift to them would be conversion. Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 20:17
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Christianity is a relgion that was established based on the life of Jesus, who was a Jew. He was not born with Christian dogma fully formed in his mind. You are a Milvian, you should know better than this.
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Mar 1, 2014 20:20
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What? Christ is God. Of course He had already established the doctrine of our faith when He was born! And after He was born, His teachings became the worldly foundation of our faith. Will you deny the Christianity of the Disciples, despite their Jewish blood? Judaism was the first stage of our faith, a stage ended by the sacrifice of Christ. After His resurrection, He was certainly a "Jew" no longer, if He ever was one. Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 20:29
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JT Jag posted:
I am quite certain that Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was a firm believer in his own divinity as well as his own teachings. To call him a Jew is to call a tree the ground. Much like a tree grows up from the ground into something great and majestic, so did God the Father place His Son as a seed among the Hebrews to become the mighty pillar of His Kingdom.
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Mar 1, 2014 21:00
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The Jewish question is a complicated one. Saint John Chrystosom, when he was Patriarch, was very strongly against them. Saint Peter and our own founding patron Saint Andrew argued strongly in their favour. We are we to favour the words of a Saint and Patriarch against Saints and Apostles? My colleague Cyrahzax chooses to adhere to the words of St. John Chrystosom, and I cannot fault him for doing so. Nonetheless, I choose to stand with the Apostles, those of the original Twelve who were with Christ himself, and state that the Jews should not be persecuted. We should not act towards them as our pagan forebears such as Diocletian and Valerian acted towards Christians. However, as with Saint Anastasius, we should not actively fund or support them. Should they wish to build a synagogue, that is up to them. We should not tear it down, but if it does get destroyed, we should not foot the bill for its repair. So, I stand with those who do not actively persecute the Jews. However, the heretics adhering to Iconoclasm, Arianism, Papism or Mohammedanism have heard the truth but have distorted it. Towards them, let there be no mercy unless they recant.
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Mar 1, 2014 21:04
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I can no longer stand to hear of tolerance. Tolerance is a path paved with good intentions, true, but it is a path to hell and destruction nonetheless. To tolerate different religions and peoples is only to sow the seeds of our own destruction. Our goal must be to uplift all peoples, not only into the light of the Orthodox faith, but into the glory of Roman civilization. Tolerance is not the way to achieve this. No, the only true unity comes from actually being unified, religiously and culturally. To that end, I am founding a new coalition in the Senate: Unitas. The goal of Unitas is self-evident: unity. To achieve it, we suggest the following course of action: 1. Allowing only Greek Orthodox nobles, priests, and patricians to rule over the provinces. 2. Commanding the vassals to encourage local assimilation into the Roman whole by forcing all local officials and merchants to learn Greek, and conduct their business only in Greek. 3. Sending the children of our non-Greek vassals to Greek tutors, allowing them to stay in power, but uplifting them at the same time. 4. The eventual outlawing of every "religion" other than the Orthodoxy. The immediate outlawing of any faith besides Orthodoxy among our vassals. In these four simple steps are the salvation of the Empire. Would the Bulgarians have revolted if "Bulgaria" was just a region, and not a people? Would the republics continue to revolt if they were tied to Constantinople by something other than coin and threats? What Unitas offers is an Empire of true brotherhood. A man will be able to walk from Trebizond to Cherson, speaking Greek the whole way. All of our people will share a past, a faith, and a glorious future: an eternal, world-ruling empire.  This is our symbol: the Roman eagle, holding the sword that will destroy our enemies, and the globus cruciger, representing the world that will be ruled and transformed by our faith and people. It is crowned, showing the holy authority of the Imperial office and the need for an Emperor to guide us. I am really sorry for this image. It seemed appropriate, though.
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Mar 1, 2014 22:03
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Oh, please. You wish to split off into a fanatic subfaction espousing Greek culture to the total exclusion of all others, and you name it the non-Greek 'Unitas' instead of the rightful 'ενότητα'? I will shun a faction which cannot even hold to its truest principles in the manifesto stating them. I remain loyal to the Milvians.
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Mar 1, 2014 22:32
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No, it is a coalition. Anyone who sees the light can join, and I still consider myself a Milvian. I just believe that we must go beyond religion for a united Empire. And I use the Latin 'Unitas' because of who I emulate: our imperial predecessors. Gaul, Hispania, Britannia, and Italia itself were culturally unified by the Latin-speaking Empire. I want to repeat this miracle, and so I invoke it. Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 22:36
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:I can no longer stand to hear of tolerance.  You forget, dear Senator, what actually goes down in the Empire. The most common revolts aren't amongst the Pecheneg, the Bulgarians, the Merchants, or even the Turkish citizen within our borders. The most common opponents to the Crown, within our borders, are your own ilk: the Greco-Orthodox nobles. The ones who think themselves worthy of usurping the Komnenian throne. The ones who want to repress the Empress and her right to rule. The ones who don't want a child to lead them, no matter her right to the crown. Once the Bulgarians revolted, and they only succeeded because of the ongoing war with the Seljuks. Once the Pecheneg revolted, and that was only because they was led by the Greek nobles of Adrianople. The Turks have never revolted. The Jews have never revolted. The Papists have never revolted. The only religious followers to revolt was when the Iconoclasts, and they only wanted to have their views and opinions accepted as valid with their mother church. Have we had any revolts from them since they got accepted into the Senate? No, we haven't! The only ones who keep revolting, time and time and time again, are you. And you claim we are the Barbarians here?
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Mar 1, 2014 23:06
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 While certain senators are caught up in religious arguments or further faction splits under the guise of coalitions, I would like to bring up a few items of note: Currently we are very close to sharing a border with the Empire the Germans hold on to, and note how it has claimed territory to the far north in Norway. Future expansion west must take them into account, and especially any alliances they may have (or any enemies; let us not look a gift horse in the mouth if they can prove themselves useful in reclaiming Rome). There is no guarantee they will keep these holdings in the long term any more than the Genoese will hold the Holy Land, but they are things we should prepare for. These Mongols are a benefit to us in the short term, decimating the Seljuk armies in Persia. This means we have a weaker Sultan to face in the near future; but we should not squander this opportunity and let him regain strength. Should the hordes turn their attention towards more pleasant western pastures, they are an enemy we should be wary of. They devoured the whole of Persia and their northern brethren look poised to chow down on the Russians. Ignore them and we will face only ruin. But a different take on the Mongols, these pagan armies, is that could provide a far greater opportunity than any wars could. As some have noted, conversion of their leaders to the true faith will provide us potential allies. Perhaps some of you have heard the letter from Prester John, Christian ruler in pagan lands just beyond our reach? These Mongols may not be the Christian host come to decimate our foes... but they could be. So long as they're no Carthage-lovers. Carthago delenda est!
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Mar 1, 2014 23:19
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AJ_Impy posted:
 I suppose the Church should have it, then. Lebanon does sound inviting, though, I just feel that the Levant is an important place to place a republic.
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Mar 1, 2014 23:32
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Luhood posted:
I never claimed you were a barbarian. One has to be pagan and foreign for that title. I also believe you forget that Belgorod just revolted, as it has before, and as it will again. It did so under a Russian doukessa. Our lack of Turkish problems is testament to the ultimate success of the policies I endorse. Are there any Turk douxes in Anatolia? No, those under our wing are being uplifted. I believe you also forget the Catholic Komnenos scheming against the crown. And the Iconoclasts? You would defend them? Their opinions are not valid, and will never be valid. They are heretics, and must be uplifted to stop further rebellions. The encouragement they receive in the Senate will only embolden them. That the Greek douxes continue to revolt points out only one thing: the greatness of our civilization. That a man, or group, would risk everything to control it speaks volumes. I do not endorse it, but we have a history of it: Caesar, Trajan, the Macedonian dynasty, and even Isaac Komnenos rose this way. Perhaps the douxes recognize a problem that this august body does not. Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Mar 2, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 23:39
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
The principles you espouse do not create unity within the empire they do the opposite. You would have us define our glorious Byzantine empire as merely a collection of squabbling factions. Even if you could eliminate all save your chosen faction it would merely result in further devolution to Western Greeks, Eastern Greeks, etc. and the process would begin again.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:46
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Pyroi posted:Whoa, this is the senate? Well, my father died, so I guess I'm a new senator or something? So...I guess I'll join a faction then. Welcome to the party. I'm still a little shaky what with the funeral party and the coronation party sort of... blurring together, so to make a long story short, several sacred mosaics from Justinian's day as well as my own chair have been... defiled and we've been asked to stop holding our ragers in the senate chamber. So I took the liberty of passing a cup around and, while many of the charitable donations proved to buttons, stones, and bits of pottery with lewd drawings on them, there were enough actual coins for us to hire someone to remove the mustache from the Ikon of Theodora and, after embezzling my customary fee, I've spent the leftover funds on renting out an old warehouse by the Hippodrome as our new party pad. The password is "shut up and give me booze" and it's funny hat night so wear your funniest hat (and no, fezes aren't funny) and bring friends (cool ones only, no Milvians). Anyway, I don't know if it's the strain of outliving yet another fine young Empress, the wearying militarism of recent years, or the fact that I had half a chicken and a bottle of retsina for lunch, but I'm suddenly very tired, so I think I'm going to take an early weekend. Acting Tribune Scruffles will stick around to ignore your concerns if you need anything, and be sure to congratulate him on his recent temporary appointment. It's a shame about the old Tribune, but I did try to warn him about eating all that cabbage.
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Mar 2, 2014 01:53
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I see a consulship in Senator Scruffles Future. Assuming he he doesn't destroy the Empress's sandals again.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:10
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
This senator humbly requests that we consider changing our name from the vulgar latin Unitas to the more populist and eye catching Turks Enough Already party. I also propose that we expand our platform to make Greek the official language of the empire , destroy all foreigners and allow all Greek men to carry concealed daggers in both church and senate.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:30
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Ghetto Prince posted:allow all Greek men to carry concealed daggers in both church and senate. Do you want those drunken sots to accident themselves to death in a week? No. We saw what can happen if knives are allowed when Brutus stuck one in Caesar's back. It's a terrible idea. Anyone who wants this should beware the ides of March.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:37
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Ghetto Prince posted:I also propose that we expand our platform to make Greek the official language of the empire , destroy all foreigners and allow all Greek men to carry concealed daggers in both church and senate. Greek already is the official language of the Empire, destroying all foreigners would be prohibitively expensive, and absolutely not. We will not have a recreation of the assassination of Julius Ceasar in the middle of our august chambers. This place is a goddamn circus as it is.
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Mar 2, 2014 02:46
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Ghetto Prince posted:This senator humbly requests that we consider changing our name from the vulgar latin Unitas to the more populist and eye catching Turks Enough Already party. A brother, so quickly! I'm afraid that with these eastern heathens at our doorstep, calling ourselves the TEA Party might be a bit inappropriate. While Greek is our lingua franca, as it were, having it enshrined in law would only further our cause. You truly misunderstand me on foreigners, however. Destroy them? No, I seek to uplift them! The Orthodox faith and Greek culture are gifts I want to give to every citizen of the empire, and one day the world. Your comment on daggers has already been covered.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:31
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
The name itself is both eye-catching and wonderful. I am willing to throw my unrestrained support behind the Turks Enough Already party. These foreigners are not only diluting the pure culture of our empire and our faith, some of the sneakier ones have stolen senatorial jobs from good, hardworking Greek Orthodox nobles! I also found this flag, a picture of Turkish tea, the very thing we are struggling against! 
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Mar 2, 2014 07:32
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This was entirely too tempting to pass up, so I made this for you if ya'll if you want it: I know the eagle isn't right for this timeline, but I couldn't think of a Byzantine mascot-animal to stand in for the snake so I just went with it. Talky fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 2, 2014 |
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Mar 2, 2014 19:15
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How could we say no? By popular demand, we are now the TEA Party (really a coalition). Just remember that our policies apply to all foreigners and pagans.
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Mar 2, 2014 20:01
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It's a good thing xenophobia is a Greek word. I would like to indicate my support of this faction in addition to my Old Roman and New Marian allegiances.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:40
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occipitallobe posted:I also found this flag, a picture of Turkish tea, the very thing we are struggling against! You do realize... lemme check my numbers... something like half the empire starts their day with a nice warm cup of chai? Like, a good quarter of our trade tariffs come from moving boxes of tea leaves from one end of the empire to the other. Turkish tea is Roman profit.
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Mar 3, 2014 06:20
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Ratoslov posted:
Yeah, I'm uncertain as to whether I can foster any sentiment for the TEA Party, if this is going to be their standard approach towards the trappings of glorious money.
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Mar 3, 2014 15:03
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I find it best to ignore the fringe parties, gentlemen. They've really been springing out of the woodwork lately, but debate on the floor aside, they really have no ability to even get a bill considered, nevermind policy passed.
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Mar 3, 2014 16:02
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Yes, truly the exclusionary policies of this TEA party shall drat them, for while they draw from their ranks only the most close-minded of the established Greek peoples, we draw from all those many tribes and nations who dwell in the empire and our ranks are manifold because of it.
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Mar 3, 2014 16:08
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NewMars posted:
It serves as a useful clearing-house to eliminate those whose views are too extreme from sensible debate. Those who forget the command to go forth and make disciples of all nations, and that in the Almighty there is no Jew nor Greek, Rich nor Poor, they risk becoming as wayward and misguided as the Iconoclasts, Arians or Papists.
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Mar 3, 2014 16:29
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It is hardly forgotten, Senator. Spreading the True Faith to every citizen of the Empire is half of our platform, and one that every faction save the Milvians seems to conveniently forget when it comes to the provinces. I simply do not trust these ex-pagans and infidels to not stray. Once they become one with the Roman whole, it will be far easier to keep an eye on them. But, the beauty is, we won't have to. They will be us! We only want to establish a true equality across the Empire. What Pecheneg or Cuman could ever claim to be the equal of a Roman? They have no past worth consideration, and no intellectual tradition of note. Nothing needs to be said about Turks. As for the Slavs, we only want to undo the mistake of Cyril and Methodius. None of these people are worthy of their own language, their own customs. No, assimilation is gift, it is ascendance! This is the way to equality!
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Mar 3, 2014 16:45
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
You dare besmirch the memory of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius? I suppose Saint James is at fault for taking the faith to Hispania as well, or Saint Luke for bringing it to Egypt, or Saint Thomas on his eastward trek to India? I will have no part in any venture that forsakes and spits upon the Apostles.
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Mar 3, 2014 16:59
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 No, their work in spreading the Faith was holy and true. I find fault with inventing a redundant alphabet. You New Byzantines I understand the least. You claim to want, and to represent, something new. I say that you do not. You would enforce every petty division of old, the chief among them being language! Why? I say that we represent the only dynamic and successful path to the future! This empire MUST become a nation! A nation, indivisible, ever standing, ever expanding, ever incorporating! I say we must sweep aside the petty divisions of old and truly become one people, united under Constantinople! The Romans are the only ones capable of such a feat! Our imperial predecessors came so close, only to have their efforts swept aside by that Germanic filth, but we, with our Greek inheritance, are far more capable! The world can be remade in our image! Why do any of you resist this?
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Mar 3, 2014 17:21
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
When the Almighty cast down the tower of Babel and confused the tongues of mankind, He did so with good reason. You would have us construct a new Babel out of the Greek nation, defying the will of the Almighty? What He joins, no man can set asunder. What He sunders, no man can rejoin. He has sundered mankind into a thousand tongues, a thousand cultures. To go against God in this regard is as unacceptable as going against Him in any other.
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Mar 3, 2014 17:41
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
Steppes and Republics Why we resist my fellow senator is because what you are proposing is a bad idea. Not only would taking time to stamp out each individual culture to make it Greek be an extremely costly venture, it would cause massive revolts by those who are off said cultures. Putting down said revolts would overextend the reach of our armies therefore causing us to be more open to invasion. Like the Rome of old we must show tolerance to all cultures so as not to get ourselves killed by revolts and invasions.
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Mar 3, 2014 17:43
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Babel was sundered only because of man's impiety and arrogance. What I propose would be the most pious and holy of nations! We alone represent the True Faith among all the nations of the earth. God has chosen us. I know it. It is our holy duty to spread and enforce His Word across the world, and this will only be made easier when all men have achieved the equality a nation! As for you, Senator Blackunknown, if they would revolt over this simple request, were they ever loyal to begin with? I think not. Did our predecessors deal with such revolts? A few, but it was hardly the apocalypse you imagine. In fact, the lost provinces fought on, maintaining their Roman heritage to the last! We must inspire such loyalty. The divisionism of the past is not the way!
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Mar 3, 2014 18:01
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