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Scarf posted:Finally finished up the rhythm tracks for my band's EP (minus a few punch-ins I need to do). I FINALLY convince our drummer to record without a click-track, on a pretty tricky song, the last one, at the very end of our time... and when we get done he asks if we could go back and record all of them without a click. I was trying to suggest that the entire time, and now we're out of time... When we recorded our record we tried without one but then, we had to use a click track. Long ambient parts are impossible to keep rhythm without it. But, I am sure they are quite different styles.
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Feb 27, 2014 20:33
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Vox also has something called Amphones, which are pretty much headphones you can plug into your bass/guitar whatever. Cost about 100$ Got the bass version at the end of November, haven't even used up the AAA batteries they came with when they stopped working... Luckily there was a 2 year warranty, going through the process of having them replaced now.
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Feb 27, 2014 20:39
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Smash it Smash hit posted:When we recorded our record we tried without one but then, we had to use a click track. Long ambient parts are impossible to keep rhythm without it. But, I am sure they are quite different styles. Yeah, see we're playing jazz/funk fusion with a lot of syncopation. A click just doesn't make sense for that imo.
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Feb 28, 2014 00:25
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Scarf posted:Yeah, see we're playing jazz/funk fusion with a lot of syncopation. A click just doesn't make sense for that imo. A click seems like it would really limit you ability to play freely - you can't fully focus on the music when you are trying to lock on to a click. I read something years ago by someone who analyzed a bunch of Led Zep songs, and noted how the slight tempo variations added to the song as a whole - slight increase when approaching a big chorus, etc. Would Stairway be nearly as good if it was locked to a click? I don't think so.
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Feb 28, 2014 01:16
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Things like clicktracks and MIDI controlled drum tracking have driven my drummer half-insane, wanting every note quantised and creating a lot of grief over getting the tone and power of certain drums and strikes just right. Then you have me who lays down no more than 5 takes before its on to the next one. NEXT SONG. NEXT. E: That doesn't mean that my bassline isn't without flaws, and I often pick them out when I hear the tracks later, but then I quickly forget them and let them lie when I remember that it's the bass and nothing is perfect. Except MIDI quantised drums, apparently. Jeff Goldblum fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 03:37
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Jeff Goldblum posted:Things like clicktracks and MIDI controlled drum tracking have driven my drummer half-insane, wanting every note quantised and creating a lot of grief over getting the tone and power of certain drums and strikes just right. Quantizing the gently caress out of everything makes it sound lifeless and defeats the purpose of having a real live drummer instead of just programming outright.
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Feb 28, 2014 04:45
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That's what I hate about hearing top 40 stuff on the radio - the vocals have been autotuned, everything is micro-quantized, and then the whole package is overcompressed. A lot of it is about as processed as grocery store coldcuts. A lot of my favourite records have kind of a refined sloppiness to them - Bitches Brew, Allmans Live at Fillmore East, the White Album, Hot Rats, etc.
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Feb 28, 2014 04:56
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Agrikk posted:It looks like I might be on the road for a little while and I'm thinking about bringing my bass along. Tons of different options. Korg Pandora, any of the Tascam trainers, Boss Micro BR, plenty of preamp pedals have aux in and headphones out like the 3leaf Enabler, headphone amps like the Cafe Walter, etc...
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Feb 28, 2014 08:04
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iPod? Say no more, friend, because music companies loooooooove youuuuuuu. While I didn't get a chance to see NAMM this year, 2012's downstairs exhibitions were like "Year of the iPhone/iPod" so you've got tons of physical interfaces and studio software for you to input, record, effect, mix, master, yadda yadda yadda, basically you can be like Damon Albarn in The Fall. And most of them let you play your music, too. Here's a variety of choices, I remember iRig being sort of a big deal for size and simplicity's sake. E: oh, and it looks like this weekend will save you $20 today if you go with the iRig. Jeff Goldblum fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 09:37
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I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of this bass thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qotd4qs_SGM I also feel like I'm approaching the same crossroads that I found the last time I tried to play bass: I don't know how to transition into BEING a bass-player, rather than LEARNING to play the bass. I don't really have the inclination to join a band nor the equipment for a jam session participation. Is anyone else in this same scenario? What do you actually spend your time doing?
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Mar 2, 2014 21:49
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Pretend to be Les Claypool
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Mar 2, 2014 21:55
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Southern Heel posted:I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of this bass thing: I'm currently not in a band, so I can relate to that feeling of stagnation. What I started doing was picking songs from my library of music and learning them by ear and writing them out as sheet music in order to stay on top of my game and it's a great way to get to know some cool lines. Plus it'll give you a huge repertoire of lines and songs. I don't know what your end game is in the whole bass playing thing but even if you don't really have the drive to go out and play in a band it is really the best way to learn and progress.
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Mar 2, 2014 21:59
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you could always record some covers in yr bedroom & put them up on youtube
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Mar 3, 2014 09:29
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Could anyone recommend some pickups for me? I am not a gearhead, so I am unversed on this kind of thing. I am wanting pickups that enhance the 'metallic' sound of the strings. I like hearing the clanky sound of the strings through my amp. I play an Ibanez GIO that has this pickup configuration. My guitar does not have four tone knobs, just three. 
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Mar 4, 2014 18:50
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shootforit posted:Could anyone recommend some pickups for me? I am not a gearhead, so I am unversed on this kind of thing. You could try to achieve that with EQing your amp with a more mid heavy setting.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:36
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And fresh stainless steel strings.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:50
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Dark Star pickups are great for that kind of sound, but I don't think Fred Hammon makes them anymore.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:11
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Southern Heel posted:I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of this bass thing: I'll speak from my experience. I started playing bass at 14 in highschool because hey... nobody else wanted to do it for jazz band. That's how I got duped into becoming a symphonic bassoonist as well, but that's another discussion entirely. Anyway, cheap rear end bass in hand, lovely Peavy Minx amp (still have it), show up to first rehearsal and couldn't do a drat thing. But hey, there's a director and 25 other kids there. Play something. Find root. Do something. Now. Go. It's an odd psychology, the learning and playing of an instrument. To me, you're always learning it unless you are either 1) Supernaturally gifted or 2) Have no job, social life, and literally practice all day until you blunt trauma yourself into being Supernaturally gifted. That's really how I look at it at the face value of what you typed, but... I get where you're coming from. Back to me at 14... I felt like an idiot until we played our first show. Once that was done, and we didn't mess things up too badly, I felt like I actually just PLAYED something. That was kind of how the years past through highschool and college Jazz ensembles. Practice and rehearsal were frustrating, learning experiences. You didn't get that satisfaction until you did the show. Eventually the practice and rehearsal times become less frustrating. Eventually things you used to have to think about all the time become automatic. By the time I was in my mid 20's, I was a bassist. That's how I referred to myself (and a loving bassoonist too). These days I, like you, have zero interest in playing out. I am treating my coming back to the bass as an academic activity, much like I'm treating my formalization of learning guitar. However, I'm at a bit of a psychological advantage because I can tell from the previous experiences of so many drat shows if something is "done", "ready", "I could play that in front of people". I don't need the show to tell me, because I know. So what do you do, not having that experience of playing out, understanding when you've gotten over the hump on something, and are a player? You have to set goals for yourself from a playing and listening perspective. I say listening because of what I saw in that vid. So... that bit in the video, straight 8ths, minor surf feel, etc... you played it fine with no major fretting or plucking issues. The one lone problem: feel. That sounded very, very dry. And that's a common, common issue in student musicians. You're trying so hard to just get the drat notes out that you lose all feel for what's being played. To me, as a bassist, it's just as important to get feel going in what you play as it is to hit the right notes. You have bassists that can bring the house down playing a blitz of notes and you have guys that can bring the house down using nothing but root. It's all in HOW you play it. Take that same bass line, lose the backing track, fire up a metronome if you have one. Start playing the bass line as you did right there only keep the lick from the first four notes (A, A, B, C) and repeat it, super even playing, almost "compressed". Listen to how it sounds, see if you can detach the part of your brain that's focusing on the fretting and plucking and just listen. Now take that same 4-note pattern and hit the two A's a little harder (DUN-DUN-dun-dun, DUN-DUN-dun-dun, etc...) and keep repeating that a bit... listen for how it might sound different to you. Now take that same pattern and hit the firs A and the B harder (DUN-dun-DUN-dun), emphasizing the quarter note tick of the measures, and listen to how that sounds different. You changed no notes at all, but each of those should have a slightly different emotional feel. The first is hammering away on the root of that minor 1 chord, emphasizing the anchor of the harmony above, and if you were to put that back under the backing track you should hear it giving the overall piece more of a fierce driving feel as the first 2 eights of each measure get beat on. The second emphasis pattern will give you a driving feel as well, but it will feel more even, not as fierce, more determined. That's feel. What is the emotion that I'm trying to get across here playing this piece. The minor key is making it sound dark, but what kind of dark? Depressed dark? Brooding dark? Ima kill somebody dark? Pure loving evil dark? Hell, try emphasizing the second A and the C (dun-DUN-dun-DUN) and suddenly you're pumping the off-beats, putting emphasis on the color tone C at the end of the lick. This inherently raises tension in the listener because you've now pulled attention to things that are not on the downbeats. Things like this change nothing with the fretting, but opens up your plucking hand to do some interesting things. Take that same line and try working with a softer, more legato pluck, through to a harsher, pizzicato pluck that's just shy of fret-slapping. How you integrate stylistic cues like this will open you up to sounding more like a player. Other than that... I still think Rocksmith 2014 session mode is the poo poo for just getting in and playing. Is that an option? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOO_XcdE-HY <- not me edit: I type for poo poo and mix sentences in my head when I'm trying to use my music brain while using my data analysis brain. Alleric fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 23:14
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(rocksmith, you mean) Fantastic post, though.
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Mar 4, 2014 23:19
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silvergoose posted:(rocksmith, you mean) Yeah, I can't type coherently at all. I really shouldn't blindly type things like this while looking over my monitors and having a discussion with lower-tier database personnel about the inherent benefits and pitfalls of logical data partitioning even when you can't create parallel storage partitioning underneath it concerning the performance improvement of both OLTP and OLAP data calls. Don't tell anyone I typed that. Seriously. When I'm at parties and people ask what I do? I tell them I'm a janitor. I have a reputation to keep up. And to support the Rocksmith thing for a person who doesn't really want to play out... the fact that it will scale difficulty with you is just awesome, and there is a very tactile, visceral sensation to playing along with the real track with something holding you to keeping the beat, hitting the notes, etc... I think what you might be looking for is validation at the heart of it, and it's hard to provide that to yourself. Sometimes you need someone else to tell you that you kicked rear end to understand that an rear end has been kicked. Alleric fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 23:25
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Seventh Arrow posted:Dark Star pickups are great for that kind of sound, but I don't think Fred Hammon makes them anymore. Curtis Novak has started to produce them, however. http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/BS-DS.shtml I want to hear some samples, but I would be really interested in dropping one into a P-bass edit: I did find a video, sounds pretty wild to me, and it's even with chrome flatwounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ig8l0arx5k Doomy fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 00:01
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Doomy posted:Curtis Novak has started to produce them, however. I have a Les Paul bass with darkstars. I should probably make some sound clips, but my amp is elsewhere and I don't know if recording DI would get the right effect.  
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Mar 5, 2014 00:44
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Alleric posted:Yeah, I can't type coherently at all. I really shouldn't blindly type things like this while looking over my monitors and having a discussion with lower-tier database personnel about the inherent benefits and pitfalls of logical data partitioning even when you can't create parallel storage partitioning underneath it concerning the performance improvement of both OLTP and OLAP data calls. As someone in a similar boat that I started learning bass for fun but don't really play in a band: Be careful with Rocksmith. It's good for instant gratification but it will allow you to fall into bad habits. Session mode is really good though, even if for nothing else, to use if there are people around and you don't want to subject them to a metronome. Still, it's a lot of fun but you have to be mindful that the game will let you get away with murder, and even if you get a 100% on a song it could still easily sound like total poo poo if you isolated just yourself. (Your post is really good though  )Also, as an anecdote to share myself, I recently had an ah-ha moment. I've played instruments in the past, but I went six years without touching anything music related until I picked up bass randomly and started taking lessons one day a few months ago. I've been stuck in that same feeling of not being a bassist, just trying to learn, until about two weeks ago when the teacher I take lessons with told me he's planning on doing a Beatles 40th Anniversary tribute concert and he wants me to play bass for the whole god drat thing because his wife is tired of playing bass for him. Something clicked when he started writing out the chords for a bunch of popular Beatles music and surprise, it's pathetically easy. He's been drilling weird Jazz chord progressions into my head for so long I flat out forgot just how easy most pop/rock music is to play. He's a bit of a local celebrity so his shows sell decently enough no matter what he does, he'll occasionally rent out a hall to put some stupid little thing on himself with all of his students to let them get exposure to being on stage and daddy can get drunk at the bar in the back. I know drat well this is for the kids and I'm at the top of the age curve here, but typically everyone takes turns walking up and doing whatever one or two songs that they practiced together, everyone claps and they sit down. He wants me in the back bassing it up for everything so his wife doesn't have to. I'm useful! I mean, I still don't feel like a bassist and I have tons to learn, I certainly don't have the confidence to write my own groove or join a jam session with a band. However, I know the notes, I know how to build chords and can follow a chart, even if I'm just banging out roots, roots & 5ths, or walking a chord. That means I can hold my own, and there's this professional who's been in the business for over 50 years who thinks I'm good enough to be an actual part of the show and to take over a part that's normally done by another professional, instead of being someone hamfisted in so mommy can be proud of her little dumpling. That or I'm just falling into his trap since the point of the shows are to build confidence in the students and it's doing a good job building my confidence. (I know drat well I might be wasting my money with him and would get more bang for my buck going to a full on bass teacher instead of a guitarist who works mostly with teens, and that I'm essentially giving him money so I could play a gig for him where he charges a cover fee, but I don't give a gently caress because it's fun and that's all that matters to me) e: I feel like an idiot for typing that 
Renegret fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 02:05
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Well, as my first bass teacher said to me: You're a bassist/guitarist when someone pays you to do it. I do consider that my baseline for being A Thing(tm), and by that definition I've been many Things in my life. I later backed that off to my "playing a show" metaphor, because hey, I played for scholastic ensembles for like the first 6 years of my bass playing career. Still though, private players need validation, just as much as any other type of student or player. You need some way of knowing when you've arrived at a milestone. The trick may be setting those milestones. With no gig to use as that, something else needs to be found. I mean, the other night it was something as simple as finding the bass line to Billie Jean transcribed for guitar in one of my books. Screw that, it's a drat bass line. I ran and got the Schecter and sat there and worked on it until I had it cold, stylistic cues and all. I mean, it's not a terribly complex bass line, uses a whopping 5 notes in F# minor (but plays like pentatonic, which is even easier). The trick is to get all the notes short and tight, space in there. Not quite staccato, but tight. By the end of the work out the tone wasn't right (totally wrong kind of bass for that line), but I had it rolling. Actually, that reminds me of an old trick we used to use back in one of my jazz ensembles, and Southern Heel can totally do this: record yourself and listen to it critically. Play back you playing something and think: what would I change? Why does this not sound like <insert known bass line here>. Mix some rock or pop lines in with your book work, record you playing them and then compare them to the recordings. Change things up with how you pluck, whatever... listen again. It blew my mind the first time I heard what I sounded like on the house mics in our first hall show in college. I had to change a whole bunch of poo poo on my preamp, amp and totally how I was hitting the notes. Sounded like rear end on stage, but out in the seats it was golden.
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Mar 5, 2014 04:35
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I am primarily a bassist, and when I'm not in a band or anything what I do is just create songs that just utilize the bass. Or basslines that I will later set aside for future use.
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Mar 5, 2014 05:11
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I was first hired to play bass. I was actually paid when I was playing guitar. I currently make money playing bass. I am a professional harmonica player.
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Mar 5, 2014 07:44
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Alleric, that's a wonderful post so first and foremost thank you for taking the time. I will try to record that again with different emphasis and more feel - I felt that it was particularly without groove because the entire song is eighth-notes, but I guess that's no excuse, right? Rocksmith isn't an option, but I guess setting some goals for myself and working towards them is always a good thing. It's funny you mentioned playing back at yourself - I'm trying to learn Sir Duke and replaying some of my recordings highlights the inconsistency of note duration/intensity and many timing gaffes I didn't realise.
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Mar 5, 2014 14:46
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Southern Heel posted:Alleric, that's a wonderful post so first and foremost thank you for taking the time. I will try to record that again with different emphasis and more feel - I felt that it was particularly without groove because the entire song is eighth-notes, but I guess that's no excuse, right? Well, I'm of two minds on your question. I was/am a theory geek, and did 2.5 years of theory and composition in college. Couple that with my symphonic and wind ensemble experience and I'm definitely a "play what's on the page and only what's on the page". We used to call it "curse of the composer". There's actually cultural and historic elements that has molded that idea for centuries, but I'm not going into all that. Suffice to say that there is a stuffy side to music that says you never interpret, but work towards the ideal set out before you on the score. The OTHER side to that coin, that also has significant cultural and historic elements is that of interpretation being the ideal. The piece of music is a good idea and all, but the importance is placed on taking what's handed to you and making it your own. In the middle of those two massive cultural glaciers a child was born in the early 20th century. That child grew up to be rock and roll, and jazz, and bluegrass, and... The short answer is this: You should be able to play what's handed to you. If you're lucky, a composer will give you all the stylistic cues in the world, and will give them to everybody who's playing so things will more quickly mesh and work towards the net style. However, and this is almost always true in rock and jazz, most of the time you will have to work out the stylistic cues of your playing to best match with the people you're playing with. Or, in your case, you may have to do some more footwork and listening on understanding what historically has been the style cues for bass in music like what your books are handing you. The listening back will help a lot.
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Mar 5, 2014 15:28
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Alleric posted:Yeah, I can't type coherently at all. I really shouldn't blindly type things like this while looking over my monitors and having a discussion with lower-tier database personnel about the inherent benefits and pitfalls of logical data partitioning even when you can't create parallel storage partitioning underneath it concerning the performance improvement of both OLTP and OLAP data calls. Other than knowing what OLTP and OLAP are specifically, I understood all of that. 
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Mar 5, 2014 15:37
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Southern Heel posted:Alleric, that's a wonderful post so first and foremost thank you for taking the time. I will try to record that again with different emphasis and more feel - I felt that it was particularly without groove because the entire song is eighth-notes, but I guess that's no excuse, right? To throw in my crap bassist opinion... one of the things people like to hurrr about the bass is that 'it's easy', a lot of lines are very simple harmonically and rhythmically (like straight 8ths), so a lot of people think you just need to bang out those notes and that's all there is to it. But the reason you can get away (quote unquote) with simple basslines is that a huge part of the music is in the timing and phrasing, the groove is the essence of the bass. If you don't have that, then you're probably gonna need some other sugar to try and make up for it - millions of notes, aggressive distortion, whatever. Not saying these are bad things! But if your bassline is stripped back, and many of the great ones are, that's where you get to the pure feel of the thing, and it's the difference between said bassline sounding flat or like awesomeness
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Mar 5, 2014 16:54
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Looks like I'll probably have to part ways with my 8-string bass. I've always had trouble with the neck, but now it's bowed beyond any sort of playability. I've taken it to two repair places and the hex slot for the truss rod is so worn that it can't be adjusted any further. The manufacterer doesn't make replacement necks for this and having a custom-made neck would cost more than a new bass. I don't wanna just toss it in the dumpster, so I think I might put it up on craigslist for some budding luthier or instrument maker who could use the parts. I don't know what kind of priorities luthiers have, I wonder if I'll be able to get something like even $50 for it. It may be unplayable, but the wood, pickups, and hardware are still good.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:11
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Yep. It's a terrorizing fact that playing slower, more open material can be just has hard on you as playing fast. Runs are runs are runs. Notes fly by so fast that hardly anyone but the trained are going to notice that you flubbed an attack. Botch a run and people will just go "oh well... it's hard to play fast, that's ok...". Slow, open material, they can hear absolutely everything you do. How you attack, if you have a tendency to naturally pull sharp (involuntary vibrato or pull movements, especially on root can screw you), if your intended vibrato is uneven, if there's subtle noise, how your phrasing is set up, if your emphasis points are appropriate, blah, blah, blah. Bass can be slower, but it isn't inherently easier.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:13
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Alleric posted:Yep. Pretty much this. I'm listening back through some scratch tracks for our EP for places I need to do punch-ins, and our slower tunes definitely make it more obvious when I screw up or get off time.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:24
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Seventh Arrow posted:Looks like I'll probably have to part ways with my 8-string bass. I've always had trouble with the neck, but now it's bowed beyond any sort of playability. I've taken it to two repair places and the hex slot for the truss rod is so worn that it can't be adjusted any further. The manufacterer doesn't make replacement necks for this and having a custom-made neck would cost more than a new bass. Unless there are other issues with it (and there may be if the neck has warped so much) you know that truss rod nuts are replaceable, right?
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Mar 5, 2014 21:06
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The Bunk posted:Unless there are other issues with it (and there may be if the neck has warped so much) you know that truss rod nuts are replaceable, right? Yes, thank you - the last repair guy I took it to took that into account. I can't remember exactly what the reason was, I imagine it has something to do with the neck being bowed enough to shoot arrows with.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:12
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There's an untapped idea there, and it involves stringing it with bass strings but then shooting arrows with it. Eight arrows. At the same time.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:49
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Alleric posted:Yep. This applies to every instrument, but I agree it is more of an issue for bass (and drums!) silvergoose posted:There's an untapped idea there, and it involves stringing it with bass strings but then shooting arrows with it. Eight arrows. At the same time. obviously he needs to put strings on the other side of the neck to counter the bow
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Mar 5, 2014 22:04
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Ericadia posted:This applies to every instrument, but I agree it is more of an issue for bass (and drums!) Yeah, I wasn't going to bring up the nightmare that is bassoon. I played it, I played it well, it got me some serious college scholarships, but I've never played a more temperamental instrument in my entire life. Jury day, concerto form or suite to play solo, unaccompanied in front of a panel of professors. Movement 1? Establish themes, tonality, general introduction into the majority of the musical material. Movement 2? gently caress movement 2. Adagio, open passages all over... oh and after a ridiculously dry week it rained that morning. Goodbye reed response. Goodbye attacks. Goodbye vibrato stability. Goodbye grade*. * Usually the double reed jury panel was made up of the woodwind quintet-equivalent professors, who themselves played in a quintet, so they were all familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the instrument. It still sucked, but the saving grace was as you were setting up on stage, they'd yell from the seats "so...how bad is it?", asking about the warm up.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:42
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silvergoose posted:There's an untapped idea there, and it involves stringing it with bass strings but then shooting arrows with it. Eight arrows. At the same time. Yeah, I could sell the idea to the comic book guys! It certainly can't be dumber than any of the other archery-based characters. "Bass-shot! Rocker by night, vigilante archer also by night!" Ericadia posted:obviously he needs to put strings on the other side of the neck to counter the bow wait, now this is getting confusing!
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Mar 5, 2014 22:52
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Alleric posted:Yeah, I wasn't going to bring up the nightmare that is bassoon. I played it, I played it well, it got me some serious college scholarships, but I've never played a more temperamental instrument in my entire life. Jury day, concerto form or suite to play solo, unaccompanied in front of a panel of professors. Movement 1? Establish themes, tonality, general introduction into the majority of the musical material. Movement 2? gently caress movement 2. Adagio, open passages all over... oh and after a ridiculously dry week it rained that morning. Goodbye reed response. Goodbye attacks. Goodbye vibrato stability. Goodbye grade*. I had no idea the bassoon was such a temperamental instrument. I really only deal with bass, guitar and piano so I don't have too much fussing but that sounds horrendous.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:24
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