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Well lookie here. http://www.cowboys4angels.com/cowboys/13281/Marcus+Alexander+Bagwell+%22Buff+the+Stuff+Bagwell%22+.html $800 to gently caress Buff Shagwell for two hours. We got a forum kitty on the go?
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Mar 7, 2014 11:32
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Here's the thing about Hogans turn they didn't understand, and to a degree still don't understand. Hogan had ceased to be a draw as a babyface It wasn't that he wasn't doing "As good" he was doing bad, It was literally turn heel or retire for him, and turning worked because he had a good reason and people didn't want to cheer him. Also the NWO was a "Cool" group so the fans loved them. When they tried to turn Austin at X-7, they killed him. Because people were not yet sick of Steve Austin being Steve Austin, and they sure as poo poo didn't want him with his sworn enemy, by turning Austin when they did they basically went against what the fans wanted, and it hurt them. People treat face/heel turns like this magical way to make a character better, or... not people here. The generic "People" that you've all met once who thinks the company and wrestling would be amazing if everyone was a heel. But it just isn't. It can just as easily kill someone as it can inject fresh life into them.
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Mar 7, 2014 11:42
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Zack_Gochuck posted:They hyped the poo poo out of it too. They were talking about a major industry changing announcement at the next PPV and it was just Goldberg turning heel. A lot of people on the net thought they were going to get rid of the ring to cross promote with Backstage Assault. I might be remembering wrong, but didn't Russo or Bischoff have some big plan that fell through, so they only turned Goldberg heel as a backup plan? Anyway Goldberg's heel turn was all worth it for the scene where he eats Scott Hall's contract.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:38
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Is it accurate to see Goldberg as the golden boy of WCW? I only ask because I remember the "GOOOOLDBERG" chants being piped in, but maybe that was during his first 6 months.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:00
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Red posted:Is it accurate to see Goldberg as the golden boy of WCW? At his peak, in 1998, he was absolutely the face of WCW.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:05
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Would WCW still be in business today if Bischoff wasn't so god drat obsessed with beating Vince in the ratings? WCW was still doing great business in 1998 even though the WWF took the lead in the Monday Night Wars, yet Bischoff just had to regain the lead in the ratings so we got things like Hogan/Goldberg for free on Nitro (which I'm not complaining about, mind you).
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Mar 7, 2014 16:10
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Red posted:Is it accurate to see Goldberg as the golden boy of WCW? I dunno about chants being piped in, but he was definitely huge. Look at it this way: I went to a house show at Ryback's peak, and everyone was chanting FEED ME MORE like crazy. It wouldn't have been hard to get Goldberg chants going when he was one of the top stars in North America.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:11
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Chris Gaines posted:Would WCW still be in business today if Bischoff wasn't so god drat obsessed with beating Vince in the ratings? WCW was still doing great business in 1998 even though the WWF took the lead in the Monday Night Wars, yet Bischoff just had to regain the lead in the ratings so we got things like Hogan/Goldberg for free on Nitro (which I'm not complaining about, mind you). Debatable. It was still doing great numbers TV-wise, but the amount of money they were throwing around on talent was insane.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:17
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Chris Gaines posted:Would WCW still be in business today if Bischoff wasn't so god drat obsessed with beating Vince in the ratings? WCW was still doing great business in 1998 even though the WWF took the lead in the Monday Night Wars, yet Bischoff just had to regain the lead in the ratings so we got things like Hogan/Goldberg for free on Nitro (which I'm not complaining about, mind you). I may be misremembering, but I think WCW died because new people came into power and they wanted wrestling off the network. That's basically it. They would have found any excuse to axe it. Ted Turner was able to keep WCW around as his baby for years, but once he merged his company with AOL or whatever, it was out of his hands. It would be like if Spike wanted to rebrand and get away from their fratboy image. TNA does fine in the ratings, but they'd be out.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:21
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triplexpac posted:I dunno about chants being piped in, but he was definitely huge. So the piped chants were just during his build.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:26
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He was getting real chants, but they started piping in more to make it louder, which made people quit chanting legitimately.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:53
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The funny thing about the Goldberg chants is that they were actually derogatory in tone.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:55
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triplexpac posted:I might be remembering wrong, but didn't Russo or Bischoff have some big plan that fell through, so they only turned Goldberg heel as a backup plan? This is really interesting at true! I think that was the point where I realized WCW was never going to turn things around. They hyped the poo poo out of it.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:56
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Zack_Gochuck posted:This is really interesting at true! Looking up to see if I can find a source for it, I did find this: quote:On His Heel Turn in WCW: "The reality is it is a fictional business, and sometimes that isn't the case. Sometimes business wise it's not the smartest thing to do. That's why some people didn't like me and the way I treated my character. Edit: This random message board comment leads me to believe it wasn't the original WCW plan: quote:Before his heel turn, when WCW was teasing a "big surprise" for that year's Bash at the Beach (which ended up being Goldberg's heel turn), they would have interviews with Eric Bischoff saying that the surprise was something that he and his lawyers had signed off on, and that there was nothing Vince McMahon could do about it. quote:it was supposed to be Bischoff announcing he was (non-kayfabe) purchasing the company. This didn't come to fruition (it wouldn't until he partnered with Fusient in January), so they were caught with their pants down. Secondly, the rumor mill said that there were plans to turn Steve Austin heel, and WCW being WCW, they desperately wanted to turn Goldberg before the WWF could turn Austin. triplexpac fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 16:59
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triplexpac posted:Looking up to see if I can find a source for it, I did find this: Sting's run-in with a kid from the 'Dreams Come True' Foundation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j65DpagyhI
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Mar 7, 2014 17:04
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triplexpac posted:I may be misremembering, but I think WCW died because new people came into power and they wanted wrestling off the network. That's basically it. They would have found any excuse to axe it. Towards the end, WCW was pretty much a money pit. There really isn't a way around it, they had been mismanaging their finances. Huge roster, expensive gimmicks that went nowhere, and the airline tickets being the more prominent examples. Ratings were down, buyrates were down, attendance was down. They were writing checks that the rest of Time Warner had to cash. There's some truth that what ultimately killed WCW was the loss of the TV contracts, but only because it killed Bischoff's bid. But by that point, it was like pulling the plug on Terri Schiavo.
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Mar 7, 2014 17:42
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ayn rand hand job posted:Towards the end, WCW was pretty much a money pit. There really isn't a way around it, they had been mismanaging their finances. Huge roster, expensive gimmicks that went nowhere, and the airline tickets being the more prominent examples. Ratings were down, buyrates were down, attendance was down. They were writing checks that the rest of Time Warner had to cash. I read Miss Elizabeth was making six figures and had a "no wrestling" clause in her contract.
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Mar 7, 2014 17:47
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ayn rand hand job posted:Towards the end, WCW was pretty much a money pit. There really isn't a way around it, they had been mismanaging their finances. Huge roster, expensive gimmicks that went nowhere, and the airline tickets being the more prominent examples. Ratings were down, buyrates were down, attendance was down. They were writing checks that the rest of Time Warner had to cash. I get that WCW paid a premium for talent to hamstring the WWF. That's competition. What I don't get is WCW paying a premium for celebrities. I'd love to see how much WCW paid: - Chuck Norris - Jackie Chan - Jean Claude Van Damme - Dennis Rodman - Karl Malone - Kevin Greene - Reggie White - Master P - KISS - The Misfits - Megadeth - Jay Leno - Kevin Eubanks - Michael Buffer (TO ANNOUNCE NITRO MAIN EVENTS) - David Arquette - Kyle Petty Most of those people meant absolutely nothing to business, but cost a fortune.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:43
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Michael Buffer alone must've run into high six figures, maybe more when you add up all his appearances. I know KISS cost them at least $500,000 for an incredibly low rated segment.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:43
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Jackie Chan? When did I miss that one?
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Mar 7, 2014 18:44
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Red posted:
Road Wild 98 actually did a good buyrate, so I guess Leno was worth it. Bash at the Beach 98 was a really big buyrate as well, so Malone and Rodman did well on top. Not saying you're wrong, you did say "most" of these people. It's just interesting to see the experiments that worked.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:50
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I think Michael Buffer made $10,000 per appearance to do about 10 seconds of work. I really do believe WCW could still be around today, though in a much smaller TNA-level company, if they had stopped using the guys with the huge guarantees, except Goldberg. Even paying Nash, Hogan, etc. to sit at home and do nothing would have been better than having them poo poo all over the product for its last 4 years. Keep Goldberg, have him never lose ever, and build up a bunch of the younger talent that they kept pushing to the side. This enters the realm of fantasy booking pretty quickly, but it still shocks me 15 years later just how terribly managed and produced this all was. Hiring Russo and giving him essentially free reign to do whatever? Letting Kevin Nash be the head booker while an active wrestler? Giving huge guaranteed deals to guys they either used as jobbers or barely used at all? From a business perspective it was just such a bizarre company.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:51
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Didn't someone in this thread say Master P was getting $300k per appearance? Maybe it was only $100k, but that would still be awful.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:55
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Bigass Moth posted:I think Michael Buffer made $10,000 per appearance to do about 10 seconds of work. Only $10,000? That seems cheap for Buffer.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:57
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Halloween Jack posted:Didn't someone in this thread say Master P was getting $300k per appearance? Maybe it was only $100k, but that would still be awful. Master P was not paid $300,000 per appearance according to Death of WCW. It was a paltry $200,000 per appearance.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:59
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haljordan posted:Only $10,000? That seems cheap for Buffer. I once heard Buffer was paid by the word, which is why all his entrances were so long-winded
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Mar 7, 2014 19:00
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"He is the bad boy of wrestling. And that's good, because he's very, very bad."
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Mar 7, 2014 19:06
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ayn rand hand job posted:Master P was not paid $300,000 per appearance according to Death of WCW. Master P like, wasn't even THAT popular at the time. Like don't get me wrong, he was famous and all, but he wasn't bringin' in any viewers.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:08
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Master P like, wasn't even THAT popular at the time. Like don't get me wrong, he was famous and all, but he wasn't bringin' in any viewers. You mean the traditional southern WCW audience didn't flock to a B-level rapper??
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Mar 7, 2014 19:10
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Whatever David Arquette made ended up going to WWE anyway because he donated his earnings to the Hart Family, the Pillman Family, and Droz.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:11
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triplexpac posted:You mean the traditional southern WCW audience didn't flock to a B-level rapper?? I feel like it'd be the same as TNA bringing in Akon.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:17
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Master P like, wasn't even THAT popular at the time. Like don't get me wrong, he was famous and all, but he wasn't bringin' in any viewers. The only buzz I remember about him was Snoop Dogg signing to his label. Because a gold plated tank is a surefire sign of business acumen.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:22
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I can't really talk about the piped-in Goldberg chants, but I fairly recently watched some early Russo (post-comeback) WCW. Every time Russo and his cronies are being all smug and getting away with their shenanigans, there is almost always a loud Goldberg chant, similar to how people chanted for Austin or Rock around the same time when the McMahon-Helmsleys were doing their thing. Maybe it was piped-in, but it sounded to me like they really wanted this guy to come in and put a stop to their dastardly, in-joke-filled schemes. Like, earlier on, when he springs into the ring after the fingerpoke, the crowd are going wild for him to take on the NWO, before he gets unceremoniously humiliated. Even in WWE, when Vince was doing his great "thumbs up, thumbs down" promo on the simulcast Raw, he conveniently misses out Goldberg at first and only resumes when the crowd start chanting his name. WCW turning him heel, just... even if it was Plan B, why? And wasn't he injured for some of the Russo stuff? I can't think of anyone else in WCW who'd get that sort of reaction despite not being on TV, apart from Scott Hall... and for all his problems how can you not like WCW Scott Hall (don't answer), so Goldberg's pretty unique. Heck, Hall still had Nash making promos on his behalf ("Guess who I just talked to???"). Goldberg didn't have that! Slightly different note, WCW's demise reminds me of what happened to United Artists. I can't talk with absolute expertise about WCW, but the situations feel similar. They were both owned by TNCs, who eventually just really wanted to sell. The expenditures on wrestling talent and a flop as publicised as Heaven's Gate were embarrassing to the owners, even though - in the world of mega-capitalism - the losses would probably be made back pretty quickly (Heaven's Gate is cited as the killer of UA, yet it was alleged somewhere that its $40m+ loss would've been regained in about two days under Transamerica). WCW in its dying days wasn't very good from what I've read and seen, and Heaven's Gate is a flawed film... those weren't the big clinchers per se, but they certainly didn't make good cases to the people in charge. Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 19:50
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triplexpac posted:You mean the traditional southern WCW audience didn't flock to a B-level rapper?? I think WCW crashed and burned before southern hip hop got much mainstream attention, although it would have been funny to see Three Six Mafia show up on Thunder or whatever.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:54
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Bigass Moth posted:I think Michael Buffer made $10,000 per appearance to do about 10 seconds of work. And the same amount of money regardless of whether he got the wrestler's name right. BRET "THE HITMAN" CLARK!
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Mar 7, 2014 20:37
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RZApublican posted:And the same amount of money regardless of whether he got the wrestler's name right. loving hilarious. You'd think a guy who reads names off of cards for a living could get them right.
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Mar 7, 2014 20:38
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haljordan posted:loving hilarious. You'd think a guy who reads names off of cards for a living could get them right. Knowing WCW, they gave him cards with the name spelled wrong
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Mar 7, 2014 20:45
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Bruce is better anyway 
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Mar 7, 2014 20:48
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Chris Gaines posted:Bruce is better anyway Well obviously. He was in "Over The Top." By the way, just so we're all clear, the arm wrestling tournament at the end of "Over The Top" was double elimination. That means you have to lose twice in order to be disqualified. Again, double elimination. Two losses. Not one. haljordan fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 20:50
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triplexpac posted:I may be misremembering, but I think WCW died because new people came into power and they wanted wrestling off the network. That's basically it. They would have found any excuse to axe it. The company was losing $500,000 per week. If the company were making record profits like in 1998 it wasn't getting axed.
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Mar 7, 2014 22:45
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