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Orange_Lazarus posted:Are timers worth installing on a traditional electric water heater? My wife and I are usually away from home 10+ hours a day M-F and wouldn't mind having a hot water time window. I put one on mine last month. Unfortunately, with the extreme cold in the south and the heat being electric I won't be able to give a good example yet of how well it worked. I know that I was away from home, and it being off for 3 days it took about 10 minutes to fully heat up all the water in the tank. It's only 2 years old, but every single time I wash my hands it likes to turn on for a few minutes to heat the water back up. So it's not exactly for saving on the power bill, but I have an idea it might, I mainly got it to shut the drat thing up from running so much. Right now, having it run for 2 hours early in the morning, 30 minutes at noon, and then an hour in the evening gives me the perfect amount of heated water whenever I need a shower.
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Mar 7, 2014 23:15
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Jadunk posted:Just to clear a couple things up, the long wait isn't really a tankless water heater issue. That's a water heater with no recirc issue. Yes, with a tankless it will be slightly worse but you're talking a difference of literally seconds. (the only difference vs. tank style is that with a tankless it takes a second or so of water running before it turns on and starts churning out hot water) Also the hot/cold sandwich problem is easy to solve either through changing your habits or having someone make a slight modification of your piping. Basically if you add a 6" or so piece of 2" copper to you hot water line that will provide enough of a mixing chamber to eliminate the dreaded sandwich. The only downside is that it will slightly add to the time it takes for hot water to reach your fixture in the first place. The tanked water heater will keep the piping and water warm for tens of feet through conduction, so there is always warm-up time with a tankless no matter the distance, where with conventional there might never be. The 6" piece of large-diameter pipe is interesting, hadn't heard of that but it would basically act as a buffer tank to the system. hmmmmmm
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Mar 8, 2014 06:43
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Qwijib0 posted:The tanked water heater will keep the piping and water warm for tens of feet through conduction Maybe installation standards are way different where you are, but I can assure you in the San Fransisco area it doesn't behave that way. (maybe you're used to primarily vertical runs straight off the water heater or hot water lines that insulated end to end?) You get maybe 10" off the water heater that stays warm at most, everything else will just be at ambient temperature.
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Mar 8, 2014 07:12
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More plumbing questions! The weird smell in my one tap wasn't the aerator, but it went away after about two weeks. I think it was just stuff from the hot water sitting in the pipes for a while...or something. Also our hot water heater is probably hosed from hard water anyway. Q: why doesn't my toilet flush well? We have hard water in the house and the toilet wasn't running well so I treated it with acid four times, a half gallon each time. Now the jet holes are working well and the toilet fills quickly & swirls, but the water still doesn't go down about 20% of the time. Could it be a blockage further down in the pipes? If i've treated it with acid 4 times I'm assuming the problem isn't the siphon hole.
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Mar 10, 2014 00:02
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A couple posts back I had a problem taking out a trap arm from the wall. I used a little heat and a lot of force and got it out. I was able to snake through the first turn of the pipe, but not the second. No debris came out and no change in the clog. I have a split level house and there are access panels in the finished ceiling of my garage for the plumbing. I figured out which access leads to the sink cleanout, but I have a problem now. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the cleanout plug is probably 6 inches inside the bulkhead and the opening is probably 8x8". I tried to remove the plug with a plumbing wrench with a swivel head and a screwdriver through the hole on the end as a ghetto t bar key, but the torque started bending the the wrench and the plug didn't budge. There looks to be some kind of ancient sealant on the threads. The area is too tight to heat without burning my house down. Is there a square socket set I can buy that will fit this plug? I can reach it with a ratchet extension. The plug square looks to be about 7/8". I think I could remove that thing with a breaker bar if I can find a socket that fits. I also read on some other forums that it's common to chisel plugs like this out and replace with a rubber test plug. I'm a little worried about getting debris in the pipe and/or cracking the surrounding cast iron if I do this. Is this my best bet? 
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Mar 10, 2014 16:22
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Have you tried using a socket yet? It doesn't need to be square. It just need to be the correct size.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:24
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Blackula69 posted:Q: why doesn't my toilet flush well? We have hard water in the house and the toilet wasn't running well so I treated it with acid four times, a half gallon each time. Now the jet holes are working well and the toilet fills quickly & swirls, but the water still doesn't go down about 20% of the time. How is the water level in the tank? If the water level in the tank isn't up to the marked fill line, then that can keep a flush from clearing the bowl.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:42
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Motronic posted:Have you tried using a socket yet? It doesn't need to be square. It just need to be the correct size. I don't have one that fits. Would I find a socket that large in a big box store?
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Mar 10, 2014 20:53
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stupid puma posted:I don't have one that fits. Would I find a socket that large in a big box store? A 7/8" socket? Yes. That's quite common.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:00
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stupid puma posted:I don't have one that fits. Would I find a socket that large in a big box store? You can generally find sockets up to about 1 & 1/2" in most hardware stores. Granted, sockets that big are 3/4" drive.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:11
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kid sinister posted:How is the water level in the tank? If the water level in the tank isn't up to the marked fill line, then that can keep a flush from clearing the bowl. At or near the fill line. When I flush the water comes up to less than an inch from the rim, leading me to believe that it's outlet that's the problem. Short of calling a plumber, is there anything I can't do for cheap? I rent but my landlord is very unreliable and it's a pain in the butt to get anything do e. Considering it's the only toilet in the house I'd like to get it fixed before we have a housewarming party or anything. Like, should I just buy an augur? Will that totally work, or do you need to be the toilet whisperer?
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Mar 11, 2014 02:28
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Blackula69 posted:I rent but Holy poo poo...the sheer number of questions that end up turning out like this in the thread. Spend your money on an attorney or another apartment, not an auger or materials to fix things you aren't responsible for. You're just wasting money and exposing yourself to liability.
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Mar 11, 2014 02:41
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Motronic posted:Holy poo poo...the sheer number of questions that end up turning out like this in the thread. Yeah. If they won't fix the one toilet in the house they are breaking the law. SUE THEM.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:12
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Jadunk posted:Yeah. If they won't fix the one toilet in the house they are breaking the law. SUE THEM. So....you don't get that in most (nearly all) jurisdictions there are specific things required of a rental property and making the only toilet in the joint work is one of them? Very often all it takes is someone with a spine to stand up to slacker/deadbeat/slum lords. If that's not what you have, get someone who can. Been there, done that. Learned how to do it myself. You may not be aware, but if you properly document your claim it is entirely possible for you to get a judgement for both your court and attorney costs as well as a porton (or all) of your rent during the time the defect was present and properly communicated to the property owner. This isn't about being adversarial. It's about getting what you're paying for from someone who isn't willing to provide it otherwise. It doesn't take SUING THEM to make that happen. If that's the only thing you think an attorney can do as a remedy you need to learn how the law works in the real world.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:19
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Motronic posted:So....you don't get that in most (nearly all) jurisdictions there are specific things required of a rental property and making the only toilet in the joint work is one of them? I was agreeing with you and trying to emphasize that it is important that scumbag slumlords get stood up to. Perhaps I should have suggested burning down the landlords residence or tar and feathering them or something so that you would've understand that. Adversarial is what it takes sometimes. More often then not just standing up for your rights is all that it takes though, and I make sure in tenant/landlord situations I deal with that I advise the tenant of their rights if the landlord is trying to be a shitheel.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:38
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My landlord is not a scumbag or a slumlord and I am perfectly capable of telling him to go gently caress himself if need be. My toilet is running slowly, it is not the end of the world. I am trying to diagnose the problem and figure out if there's a cheap, easy, and reliable way to fix it. Let's not turn this into a tenant's rights discussion, although I'm sure you get enough people asking silly questions that can just be solved by calling the landlord. I rent a house that belongs to a guy who had a massive stroke in his 30s. He's in a long-term care facility now, it is a real bummer. Now his brother takes care of it, a blue-collar guy who is going back to college to get a better job because his previous place of employment got shut down. So like, I'm richer than my landlord. Not that it excuses anything and there's obviously a standard of responsibility for when you rent a place, but poo poo guys, it's a toilet. If it's easy and cheap I'll do it myself. So: is it?
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Mar 11, 2014 03:49
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I'm already getting my landlord to get someone to come in and fix the foundation. I could ask for more to be fixed, too - from the looks of the DIY around this place the guy's brain was broken before he had the stroke
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Mar 11, 2014 03:55
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Blackula69 posted:but poo poo guys, it's a toilet. If it's easy and cheap I'll do it myself. So: is it? The point is that if you joe-homeowner (joe tennant) something here and break something else.....which might be totally reasonable and acceptable in the course of fixing whatever issue you have......YOU are now on the hook for it. Let's take the auger as an example. If it's the right thing that any qualified plumber would choose to try to solve the issue it still has a change of breaking something. If the property owner's plumber breaks something that's his issue/the property owner's issue. If you break something it's going to be pinned on you. You may not want to turn it into a tennant's rights discussion, but anyone aware of the fact that you are renting this place would tell you that you need to have something in writing that says you aren't responsible for damages to things that cold very likely get damaged. These are things that should last 20-40 years, but you just might draw the short straw and be on the hook for replacing them during your 1-6 year stay (or even if it's a 60 year stay.....you are PAYING SOMEONE ELSE TO DEAL WITH THIS LIABILITY). So.....go for it if you must. But it's a dumb idea that betrays the fact that you don't understand what you are paying for. Save this poo poo for when you hold the note or own the property outright. Sob stories about health issues of a property owner are irrelevant.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:57
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It's not really a sob story in that his brain doesn't work. What could an augur break?
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Mar 11, 2014 04:07
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Blackula69 posted:What could an augur break? A lovely old drain pipe in some really inconvenient place that requires pulling up flooring.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:12
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Fair enough.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:21
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Jadunk posted:If it's a relatively recent electric water heater you probably will never notice the difference. Newer standard electric water heaters have such good insulation that their standby loss is almost nothing. ("skinny" models with less insulation still have very little standby loss, but do have more than standard models) It looks pretty old but well maintained. I need to get the date the next time I go but electric water heaters are pretty cheap. How often should someone replace one? If it was made in the 90s for example should it be replaced? edit: Also someone told me that removing a shower/tub that's built into a wall and replacing it is extremely expensive for some reason. Is that true? If so why? The tub in my new place is rather small and my wife and I would like a bigger/nicer tub if I could get one. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 18:07
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Orange_Lazarus posted:edit: Also someone told me that removing a shower/tub that's built into a wall and replacing it is extremely expensive for some reason. Is that true? If so why? The tub in my new place is rather small and my wife and I would like a bigger/nicer tub if I could get one. Well.....that really depends on what you want. If you want a tub that won't physically fit in the space your current tub is in there is going to have to be modification to the space as well as tile work (assuming you have tile around it). You could also be in for plumbing expense. The cheapest solution is usually a fiberglass surround, but they do look quite cheap.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:00
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Motronic posted:Well.....that really depends on what you want. If you want a tub that won't physically fit in the space your current tub is in there is going to have to be modification to the space as well as tile work (assuming you have tile around it). You could also be in for plumbing expense. The cheapest solution is usually a fiberglass surround, but they do look quite cheap. Thanks, honestly the guy that told me that isn't really reliable (he's one of those people that sounds really knowledgeable until you fact check him) so it's probably not as bad as I think. Anyway, work related question. I have a sink in my office and whenever I use the hot water it's really really cloudy. We use one of those little water heaters that are designed for just one or two appliances and the cold water looks normal. My guess is I need to completely drain the water heater? I didn't care until recently because I was only using the sink for work related stuff but I was thinking how it would be nice to use that water if I ever needed to wash my face or eyes in an emergency.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:02
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Orange_Lazarus posted:Thanks, honestly the guy that told me that isn't really reliable (he's one of those people that sounds really knowledgeable until you fact check him) so it's probably not as bad as I think. Hot water tank: You probably have sediment in the tank from hard water etc. Turn off the heater(IMPORTANT) Shut off the cold water valve, hook up a hose to the drain plug and run it to a sink/outside. It usually helps to open a hot water tap to help it drain quicker. I don't know if this will help, but possibly once it's empty turn on the cold water a bit and let it continue to flush for a bit..
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Mar 12, 2014 15:31
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Ok, I'm running into some issues. (Yeah, I changed my username)  Don't worry it's not my personal photobucket. I just created it because I can remove it later. If there's a better service for that let me know. Anyway, so I followed your instructions (closed cold water inlet, turned off the tank, used a hose to run the water out, etc) and when I open the valve on the bottom left only the little bit of cold water that was stored from above comes out. Nothing comes from the tank it seems. My guess is that it could be clogged up? If it is clogged is there a way to unclog it so it will drain? Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:10
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Tuen the cold water inlet back on (with the bottom valve open and placed somewhere it won't make a mess) and see if you can get it to blast through the crud. This will happen when a tank hasn't been services for too long and sediment has built up above the level of the bottom drain. And, use imgur.com. Edit: ick....the way that is plumbed might be problematic for this. Give it a shot though.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:17
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Yeah, I cut out the part where the outlet the pump (not the water heater) is connected to is 3 inches from the floor. 
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Mar 12, 2014 18:25
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It doesn't look like it has a proper "drain valve" like a lot of HWT's have (Although I've not really dealt with a small one like that) You have a cold inlet and a hot outlet and a pressure relief falve but nothing for drainage.. or is there something facing the wall?
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Mar 12, 2014 18:37
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I don't see anything around the tank. This is probably a bad idea but my guess is I could but shouldn't pump water from the sink into the relief valve with the cold inlet closed? I figured the water pressure could unclog it. edit: lol I realized that the inlet valve should already be doing just that, nevermind. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:38
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tater_salad posted:It doesn't look like it has a proper "drain valve" like a lot of HWT's have (Although I've not really dealt with a small one like that) The small ones I've had don't have proper drains either. But they at least have had a PRV on the body of the heater, usually next to the hot outlet. Actually, that might be what's on the other side of the outlet. Thinking about this a bit more, I'd probably be looking for a way to attach a hose to the sink to backflush domestic water pressure through the hot side of that thing with the bottom "drain" open. Some cheaper faucets will do this for you if there is no pressure on the hot side and tuen on both taps and block the outlet off. Ninja edit: yes, you've got the right idea. Just try getting it through the hot outlet, not the prv.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:43
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Yeah, actually I think the water has improved a lot. I'll try what you suggested if it gets worse. edit: lol nevermind it's still bad. I'll try what you suggested tomorrow.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:54
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Yeah, actually I think the water has improved a lot. I'll try what you suggested if it gets worse. FYI, easy way to block off the tap is to remove the aerator (if you have one) and find a coin that fits in there. It's not a total blockage, but it's probably enough to serve your purposes.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:59
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Ok, I'm running into some issues. Probably the best way to flush it is just to pull the aerator on the faucet and let it run for a long rear end time. With the hot water outlet on the top and no supply lines used unless you feel like doing a bit of DIY reworking of your piping you aren't going to be able to flush it the normal way most likely. Also am I correct in thinking that they didn't have the T&P valve drain line running to anything? Any chance on getting a model number off that bad boy so I can pull up a spec sheet to check a couple things? I'll be able to give you better info if I can double check the features on that heater.
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Mar 13, 2014 02:01
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It's going to be awhile before I feel like working on it again. Sometimes I do stuff like that at work just to be helpful or because my work is boring but it's never appreciated (I've probably saved them a ton of loving money over computer poo poo) so its going to have to wait. Thanks though, at least I learned a little.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:53
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:It's going to be awhile before I feel like working on it again. Sometimes I do stuff like that at work just to be helpful or because my work is boring but it's never appreciated (I've probably saved them a ton of loving money over computer poo poo) so its going to have to wait. FYI your guess was right, it's clogged. Electric water heaters are running electric inside the tank, so it creates a magnetic field in there. If you have hard water, it ionizes the water and pull the minerals out of the water. Over time, deposits collect in in the tank. The big pieces fall to the bottom of the tank, where the drain is! The biggest pieces can get about as big as your thumb down to the first knuckle, laying on sand-sized pieces. If your drain spout gets clogged while draining the tank, you need to twist the drain valve off its pipe (back it up when you do) and stick something like a screwdriver inside to break up the big pieces. Once your drain gets going, you can also use the water inlet valve up top to help flush out the tank. The deposits usually end up being the end of an electric water heater since they displace the water. Given 15-20 years, so many chunks form inside the tank that you end up with having ~5 minutes of hot water. Then it comes time to remove the old heater... You can drain off the water, but you can never get all the old deposits out. They can easily double the weight of the old unit. Be glad you're not removing an old 80 gallon electric water heater. Have fun carrying it up the stairs and out of the basement! kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 17:44
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kid sinister posted:FYI your guess was right, it's clogged. Electric water heaters are running electric inside the tank, so it creates a magnetic field in there. If you have hard water, it ionizes the water and pull the minerals out of the water. Over time, deposits collect in in the tank. The big pieces fall to the bottom of the tank, where the drain is! The biggest pieces can get about as big as your thumb down to the first knuckle, laying on sand-sized pieces. If your drain spout gets clogged while draining the tank, you need to twist the drain valve off its pipe (back it up when you do) and stick something like a screwdriver inside to break up the big pieces. Once your drain gets going, you can also use the water inlet valve up top to help flush out the tank. And that friends, is why they recommend flushing your water heater once a year. 99.9% of people never do it. It prolongs the life of your water heater though. You should also replace the sacrificial anode every once in a while.
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Mar 13, 2014 22:08
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kid sinister posted:Once your drain gets going, you can also use the water inlet valve up top to help flush out the tank. Can't really use the inlet valve to flush it as the hose bib to drain it is on one side of the tee on the incoming water line. If the valve is opened while the drain out hose bib is open the water will follow the path of least resistance and flow out the hose bib.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:05
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Jadunk posted:Can't really use the inlet valve to flush it as the hose bib to drain it is on one side of the tee on the incoming water line. If the valve is opened while the drain out hose bib is open the water will follow the path of least resistance and flow out the hose bib. Oh yeah, you're right. Did you open up a hot tap to let air into the tank? That should help a little.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:28
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I basically convinced my boss to buy a new one, a quick look at home depot shows she could probably get a decent one for $100-200 bucks.
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Mar 15, 2014 03:08
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