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A Bering strait tunnel/bridge/whatever would also serve a total of ten people. Sure it looks good on a map but then you realise it's one of the least populated areas. In the world.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:57
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Boiled Water posted:A Bering strait tunnel/bridge/whatever would also serve a total of ten people. Sure it looks good on a map but then you realise it's one of the least populated areas. There probably wouldn't be that many passenger trains going trough it, but there would be a lot more freight trains so it opens up trade significantly. Edit: Russia also want's to make the people they have living up there be more connected to the rest of the country. Kamrat fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 19:05
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Kamrat posted:There probably wouldn't be that many passenger trains going trough it, but there would be a lot more freight trains so it opens up trade significantly. Again though that problem is solved by boats. The reason they made the Panama Canal is that it's cheaper to ship stuff by boat rather than trains (or at least boat -> train -> boat).
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Mar 9, 2014 19:07
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computer parts posted:Again though that problem is solved by boats. That might be true, that's the reasoning I read anyway, can't remember where I read it otherwise I'd link it. It's possible that the tunnel is only a small part of a bigger picture, Russia and the U.S. connecting their remote areas might be profitable in other ways as well as making cross-border trading easier.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:18
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Kamrat posted:That might be true, that's the reasoning I read anyway, can't remember where I read it otherwise I'd link it. There's a gas pipeline attached.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:21
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computer parts posted:Opening up the Arctic sea routes are probably orders of magnitude cheaper and quicker than that. If there was a road bridge/tunnel or rail service akin to the Chunnel that I could use, I would totally go on a roadtrip from Detroit to Lisbon the long way around. *Also assuming I had the money and time for such a long trip, plus a car fit to tackle the Trans-Siberian Highway.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:26
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Ofaloaf posted:*Also assuming I had the money and time for such a long trip, plus a car fit to tackle the Trans-Siberian Highway. You could always borrow the Thomas Flyer.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:16
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Farecoal posted:Yeah but a Berlin-Cape Town train!!!!! Boring answer: Bridging the Strait of Gibraltar seems more likely. And quite badass enough. And since we were talking about 
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Mar 9, 2014 20:22
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Denmark, 'Holland', same thing.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:42
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Phlegmish posted:Denmark, 'Holland', same thing.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:51
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My question for things like this is: Who gets the land? Obviously since the English were the ones proposing it I guess they would, but I doubt the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany wouldn't appreciate their entire navy and water-based trade being rendered worthless and get nothing in return.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:55
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Peanut President posted:My question for things like this is: Who gets the land? Obviously since the English were the ones proposing it I guess they would, but I doubt the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany wouldn't appreciate their entire navy and water-based trade being rendered worthless and get nothing in return. I would think the most obvious way to resolve it would be for each country to get the land that's closer to them than to any other country.
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Mar 9, 2014 22:21
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Wouldn't be the first time in history that the North Sea was dry land.
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 22:44
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Darth Various posted:Boring answer: Bridging the Strait of Gibraltar seems more likely. And quite badass enough. I like how Dees is slowly getting more openly Nazi.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:04
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Viking-Bergen? Doggerland?  Who the hell came up with those names?
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Mar 9, 2014 23:07
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Carbon dioxide posted:Viking-Bergen? The Dutch are responsible for the name of the Dogger bank so blame them for Doggerland.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:11
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Radio Prune posted:I like how Dees is slowly getting more openly Nazi. I like how he manages to reconcile his Islamophobia with his antisemitism.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:20
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Radio Prune posted:I like how Dees is slowly getting more openly Nazi. I don't think Dees personally believes in every single thing he... photoshops? Creates? Illustrates? I don't even know the right word to describe what he does He does a lot (most?) of it on commission, and even though conspiracy nuts seem to love him, a lot of the conspiracy theories his pictures advocate seem mutually exclusive.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:53
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computer parts posted:Again though that problem is solved by boats. The claims I saw in past articles said with the current state of freight rail vs. ships, rail would be a lot faster/cheaper once the initial investment was made. Though the question is how long it takes to pay off the investment.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:51
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Pakled posted:I don't think Dees personally believes in every single thing he... photoshops? Creates? Illustrates? I don't even know the right word to describe what he does He does a lot (most?) of it on commission, and even though conspiracy nuts seem to love him, a lot of the conspiracy theories his pictures advocate seem mutually exclusive. This might be better put in the conspiracy thread, but people who are predisposed to conspiracist thinking often have no problem believing (or at least agreeing with) entirely contradictory claims. Here's a summary of some research on people who believe bin Laden was killed years ago, and that he's also alive – anything but the official story. 
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Mar 10, 2014 04:19
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Hoooooly poo poo. This guy's website is amazing.
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Mar 10, 2014 04:44
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Golbez posted:Hoooooly poo poo. This guy's website is amazing. Yeah Dees is a favorite of the Polititoons thread, he's got legitimate mental issues but he uses his affliction to make the most amazing shops. And he likes cats, and nobody who likes cats is all bad 
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Mar 10, 2014 07:24
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computer parts posted:Again though that problem is solved by boats. Wikipedia copy/paste: The TKM-World Link The TKM-World Link (Russian: ТрансКонтинентальная магистраль, English: Transcontinental Railway) also called ICL-World Link (Intercontinental link) is a planned 6,000-kilometer link between Siberia and Alaska providing oil, natural gas, electricity, and railroad passengers to the United States from Russia. Proposed in 2007, the plan includes provisions to build a 103-kilometre (64 mi) tunnel under the Bering Strait which, if completed, would become the longest tunnel in the world. The tunnel would be part of a railway joining Yakutsk, the capital of the Russian Yakutia republic, and Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in the Russian far east, with the western coast of Alaska. The Bering Strait tunnel was estimated to cost between $10 billion to $12 billion, while the entire project was estimated to cost $65bn. In 2008, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin approved the plan to build a railroad to the Bering Strait area, as a part of the development plan to run until 2030. The more than 100-kilometre (60 mi) tunnel would run under the Bering Strait between Chukotka, in the Russian far east, and Alaska. The cost estimate was US$66 billion. As of 2011, the railway Amur Yakutsk Mainline connecting Yakutsk (2,800 km or 1,700 mi from the strait) with the main rail network is under active construction; the estimated completion date is 2013. In late August 2011, at a conference in Yakutsk in eastern Russia, the plan was backed by some of President Dmitry Medvedev's top officials, including Aleksandr Levinthal, the deputy federal representative for the Russian Far East.[22] It would be a faster, safer, and cheaper way to move freight around the world than container ships, supporters of the idea believed.[22] They estimated it could carry about 3% of global freight and make about US$7 billion a year.[22] Shortly after, the Russian government approved the construction of the US$65 billion Siberia-Alaska rail and tunnel across the Bering Strait. I think freight traffic would eventually be cheaper via a route like that.
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Mar 10, 2014 13:39
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Farecoal posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa Imagine all the Neolithic villages and Roman/Phonecian/etc sea ports that would emerge on our new beaches. It would be a boon for
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Mar 10, 2014 13:56
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sweek0 posted:I think freight traffic would eventually be cheaper via a route like that. Even accounting for loading and unloading at each coast, I can't imagine this is actually true. Ships are something like twice as efficient per mile as trains, and going as far north as the Bering Straight makes the land route substantially longer.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:13
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Far northern California had an offshore earthquake, a reminder that we live in a burning ring of fire.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:07
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And yet the deadliest Tsunami since the Lisbon Tsunami I think? originated in the Indian Ocean. And wow, look at Japan, every time I see it I am thankful to live in safe Europe.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:32
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Torrannor posted:And yet the deadliest Tsunami since the Lisbon Tsunami I think? originated in the Indian Ocean.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:39
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Even accounting for loading and unloading at each coast, I can't imagine this is actually true. Ships are something like twice as efficient per mile as trains, and going as far north as the Bering Straight makes the land route substantially longer. On the original map it's important to note that the solid lines are already completed, it's just the dotted lines which need to be filled in. Regular (twice weekly I think?) train services from China to Europe have been operating for several years and regular services from Russia > Europe for decades. The Northern Sea Route can currently only be navigated for approx 2 months of the year. The rail route could potentially stay open for 10 months of the year (even year-round if they really wanted to). Although using the NSR increases a freighters fuel economy in comparison to the Suez Canal route there are all sorts of other considerations to take into account. It's generally far more dangerous than taking a train down a route between towns and cities and as such is only used by very large shipping and companies who can afford the insurance premiums. Ships may be about as efficient as trains ("twice as efficient" would have been true circa 1985) but in this case it's the route itself which is far more efficient. Far more.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:46
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duckmaster posted:Ships may be about as efficient as trains ("twice as efficient" would have been true circa 1985) but in this case it's the route itself which is far more efficient. Far more. Is it because it's pretty much a Great Circle route?
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Mar 10, 2014 20:13
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Pretty much. Although because the Earth is not a sphere, the route you want is not a great circle, but the more general geodesic. But on the Earth they're basically the same thing.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:43
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Far northern California had an offshore earthquake, a reminder that we live in a burning ring of fire. The Baltic is ripe for one of those "dam & pump a trillion litres of water out" projects IMO. No faultlines, only a tiny 3 stretches of water to dam between Denmark & Sweden. What could go wrong?
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Mar 10, 2014 22:53
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Nermal posted:What could go wrong? 
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Mar 10, 2014 22:56
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Exactly what I would have posted.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:04
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Going with the thread title. 
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Mar 10, 2014 23:06
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Baloogan posted:Going with the thread title.  Quick and dirty.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:13
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duckmaster posted:On the original map it's important to note that the solid lines are already completed, it's just the dotted lines which need to be filled in. Regular (twice weekly I think?) train services from China to Europe have been operating for several years and regular services from Russia > Europe for decades. I see, my mistake was comparing Shanghai - Los Angeles by land and sea instead of Rotterdam - Los Angeles. On the other hand, unless transhipment in China is required, wouldn't that just be shipped across the Atlantic and through the Panama Canal? Is it still faster to go overland in the opposite direction? Also, I may be doing the math wrong here, but CSX claims it can move a ton of freight ~450 miles on a gallon of fuel. A large container ship (plucking the Emma Maersk since information is plentiful) burns 1,660 gallons of fuel per hour at 12 knots (13.8 mph) to move 157,000 tons of cargo, or over 1,300 miles per ton on a gallon of fuel. Am I comparing apples to oranges somewhere?
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Mar 10, 2014 23:16
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Disco Infiva posted:
Quicker and dirtier.  Edit: can't find that 'lets run this poo poo into the ground' emicolon.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:28
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Baloogan posted:Quicker and dirtier. 
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Mar 10, 2014 23:29
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Mar 10, 2014 23:41
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