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My problem is, I want a bike that I can learn/observe the effects of losing control on which behaves exactly like my zx10 yet isn't worth $7000. It's all well and true locking/wheelieing/sliding some lovely old bike but it isn't the same as doing it on a fast bike that's actually worth money and I see no way of practising it without being rich enough to casually write off superbikes every time I want to try practice a sick stoppie.
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Feb 22, 2014 03:44
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Yeah, it's definitely something I wish I had practiced during the 8 years I had my $2500 SV650 that had frame and fork sliders, instead of today with my shiny Griso SE. 
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Feb 22, 2014 03:51
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What I'm trying to say is: lovely bikes with flogged out suspension (that was never any good to start with), narrow budget tyres and worthless brakes only behave the same way as a literbike in principle and in actuality are so different to ride that I have difficulty transferring skills from one to another. I can do a sick burnout on my hyosung 250 but I'm 90% sure that if I tried on my zx10 (which I wouldn't, because tyres are  ) I would write off my bike.
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Feb 22, 2014 03:54
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They're really not all that different. Just more intimidating.
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Feb 22, 2014 04:41
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I don't think so. I find that even at lower speeds, lovely slow bikes seem to do things in slow motion, with a huge margin of error, which makes it difficult to transfer skill to a fast bike that doesn't suck. And I think the line about learning to do things at low speed before you can do them at high speed is bollocks; you don't have to deal with headshake and crazy lean angle and wind buffeting at parking lot speeds, and it seems like the bike only really starts 'working' at higher speeds. At low speed it's just big and clumsy, I only feel properly coordinated when things are happening quickly and trying to do things like lean off the bike at low speeds feels like trying to make myself move in slowmo.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:55
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You hone your reflexes and your body acts naturally when you have something like massive tire spin up at 100mph leaving a corner. It's all subconscious. I grab throttle for fun on the street because I know realistically speaking it's not going to high side me and I get used to slides so when it does happen by surprise my body already knows to stay loose and stay neutral throttle instead of tensing up and chopping the throttle. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 08:12
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Yes. So how do you learn to train yourself to do this unthinkingly, without crashing in the process? Is it even possible?
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Feb 22, 2014 08:25
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Ride offroad, ride supermoto, and or approach that limit slowly on a supersport. Also a lot of what you mention sounds like the bike is sprung all kinds of wrong for you.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:12
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CA makes it sounds like it is impossible to crash or get hurt on a supermoto. Stop that because it is making me want to buy one.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:50
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Slavvy posted:Yes. So how do you learn to train yourself to do this unthinkingly, without crashing in the process? Is it even possible? Very possible and the reason schools like cornerspin, texas tornado, etc exist and are awesome. Instead of learning and crashing at high speeds on an expensive bike you learn at 10-15mph on little bikes. Alternatively I took the supermoto to a big empty gravel lot yesterday and did figure 8's faster and faster until I low-sided. Then I did 'panic' stops, rear brake and power slides and generally played around for a half hour.
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Feb 24, 2014 15:25
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5 years and 30k miles and here I am in this thread  .Commuting to work in medium rain this morning and at low speeds I lightly tapped my front brake and the front just went out from under me. Still trying to figure out what went wrong. I've driven in rain a lot and vaguely know what I'm doing. Bike was straight up and I was tracking the car in front of me. As soon as I tapped the front brake I just went down. It was at basically a stop so no real damage that I saw. My hip hurts because the bike landed on me but otherwise ok.
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Feb 26, 2014 18:50
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How long had it been raining? When it just starts to rain, you can get a lot of gunk from recesses in the roadway floating to the road surface, so it's possible you hit a nasty patch of diesel or something. Glad you're otherwise OK. How did your gear fair?
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Feb 26, 2014 19:33
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Safety Dance posted:How long had it been raining? When it just starts to rain, you can get a lot of gunk from recesses in the roadway floating to the road surface, so it's possible you hit a nasty patch of diesel or something. Glad you're otherwise OK. How did your gear fair? Raining for a while. My best guess is some oil or something because I had no issue the rest of my commute. Gear is fine, I hit on my helmet and hip. A bit bruised on the hip(didn't wear my newer leathers with better armor because of rain. The old ones hip protection was OK though). Brand new helmet, served me well I guess. I'll get a photo. Somehow my fairings and completely OK. Muffler has more scratches and the blinker/mirror/handlebar got a bit of scratches as well. I was probably going all of 5 mph when it happened. First wreck since I got the bike. I'll start doing more braking training because I obviously hosed something up. I just have no idea what. I barely put pressure on the brake... E: helmet got a solid bonk. http://imgur.com/26xDePn E2: in a twist of hilarity my new leather pants got delivered today. One of the reasons I bought them was better hip armor.  After thinking about this all day I still cannot figure out what I did wrong. I have a lot of rain experience(Texas thunderstorms  ) and was straight up and avoiding the center of the lane. Traffic 100+ feet ahead of me was slowing down to stop and so I went to start lightly slowing down, just another lazy stop. Before I even got any feeling of back pressure on the lever the bike went down hard and fast. I've locked up the front once or twice while practicing, even if that was a while ago, and I never saw it coming.Someone tell me what the hell I could have done wrong? apseudonym fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 20:19
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A lot of folks seem to forget poo poo just happens sometimes. Not every accident is avoidable. That doesn't make you a MootMoot. It was probably a mixture of oil or gas in that water and unless you mount a squeegee to your front end...
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Feb 27, 2014 14:29
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Rugoberta Munchu posted:A lot of folks seem to forget poo poo just happens sometimes. Not every accident is avoidable. That doesn't make you a MootMoot. It was probably a mixture of oil or gas in that water and unless you mount a squeegee to your front end... Yes and no. Every accident has a cause, usually many. While the cause for a given accident may be beyond your control, there are certain things you can do to reduce risks. Accepting that "poo poo is just going to happen" will just make you a sloppy rider who accepts unacceptable risks. Having said that, we're not all superhuman and we're not going to be able to avoid every single hazard out there. Hell, even the mighty Marc Marquez isn't above injuring himself in a training accident. This is why we wear gear.
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Feb 27, 2014 14:47
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Rugoberta Munchu posted:A lot of folks seem to forget poo poo just happens sometimes. Not every accident is avoidable. That doesn't make you a MootMoot. It was probably a mixture of oil or gas in that water and unless you mount a squeegee to your front end... The only thing I hate more than that I got in an accident is the idea that it was happenstance and I can't do anything to improve and not have it happen again. On the plus side the bike is completely fine. The only places that got scratched were places already scratched from when the PO dropped it. Somehow the plastics escaped damage. Also I'm fine and taking the day off because holy poo poo everything is sore.
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Feb 27, 2014 19:14
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Think of it this way: it was unavoidable, but you wore gear and thus you're completely unscathed in an accident that barely damaged your bike. If you hadn't worn gear you would be significantly worse off. I had the exact same thing happen to me on my zrx. Changed lanes at 40-odd km/h and the front just instantly disappeared. My bike was pretty trashed and there was nothing I could've done. But it could've been worse if I hadn't worn gear.
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Feb 27, 2014 19:43
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It's been raining here so you know where this is going. Riding in the rain is fun and beside that traffic is horrible when moisture falls from the sky therefor taking the bike to work was the obvious choice. As I was walking to open my garage door I must have been going a bit too fast because next thing you know I'm down. After regaining my composure and checking to see if all my extremities still worked (as well as a nervous look around to see if i had been observed) I tried to figure out what went wrong. I looked around and realized that I had slipped on the oil stain my neighbors lovely car left behind. I'm thinking the worn soles on my boots may have been a contributing factor. Luckily I was ATGATT so only suffered a slightly bruised rear end. I went back upstairs, took my now damp gear off and drove the truck to work. Californians. We can't even walk in the rain. Be careful out there.
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Feb 27, 2014 22:01
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If I understand California correctly, you have already filed a civil suit and a criminal suit against your neighbor, a class-action one against the oil manufacturer, and an alternately pleading/nasty notarized letter to CARB, trying to find out why cars are still allowed to have oil in them at all.
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Feb 28, 2014 03:04
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Splizwarf posted:If I understand California correctly, you have already filed a civil suit and a criminal suit against your neighbor, a class-action one against the oil manufacturer, and an alternately pleading/nasty notarized letter to CARB, trying to find out why cars are still allowed to have oil in them at all.  I'm in California too. I should sue everything.
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Feb 28, 2014 04:00
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Splizwarf posted:If I understand California correctly, you have already filed a civil suit and a criminal suit against your neighbor, a class-action one against the oil manufacturer, and an alternately pleading/nasty notarized letter to CARB, trying to find out why cars are still allowed to have oil in them at all. I've never heard the stereotype of us being litigation happy. Moving from NorCal to Socal is a huge difference in rain driving. Here in LA traffic stops for a drizzle.
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Feb 28, 2014 05:13
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apseudonym posted:
Your post only mentions you using the front brake. Were you using the rear brake at all? I would suggest familiarizing yourself with that portion of the bike. Maybe go ride a dirtbike offroad so you actually have fun using the rear brake. Or maybe go to some place wintery and icy and try riding without studded tires. Riding on ice without studded tires my experience is that touching the front brake is a dumb thing to do. Instadump almost every time. As a result when traction is lessened on the road I use more rear brake and less front as opposed to the opposite for regular street riding on dry pavement. Not trying to be a dick, sorry to hear you went down. Glad you and the bike are OK.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:53
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apatite posted:Your post only mentions you using the front brake. Were you using the rear brake at all? I would suggest familiarizing yourself with that portion of the bike. Maybe go ride a dirtbike offroad so you actually have fun using the rear brake. Or maybe go to some place wintery and icy and try riding without studded tires. Riding on ice without studded tires my experience is that touching the front brake is a dumb thing to do. Instadump almost every time. As a result when traction is lessened on the road I use more rear brake and less front as opposed to the opposite for regular street riding on dry pavement. I was using the rear but probably not as much as I should have. I'll try and keep it in mind. E: I spoke to a lot of friends at work and apparently that road is notorious for being hellish if it hasn't rained in a while. I have to say I'm a little spooked riding right now which is natural but loving annoying. Instadumping like that has completely shot my confidence on how I judge how much traction I have. apseudonym fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 00:55
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apseudonym posted:I was using the rear but probably not as much as I should have. I'll try and keep it in mind. Nerves will happen. The first few times I rode across gravel after breaking my leg, I was terrified to make any control inputs at all.
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Mar 5, 2014 01:50
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Safety Dance posted:Nerves will happen. The first few times I rode across gravel after breaking my leg, I was terrified to make any control inputs at all. My biggest issue with nerves is because I didn't feel like I had anything to focus on improving to prevent it happening again. I think if I focus on improving my braking and use of the rear brake I should hopefully do better next time and worry less while I ride.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:16
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poo poo happens. Don't over think it or you'll never leave the house. You are committed to safe riding and have analyzed the mishap from many angles. Be thankful you had a helmet on, practice braking a bit in the rain and forgive yourself for this possibly unavoidable event so you can go back to enjoying riding. Trust me, if CA thought you were a MootMoot we'd let you know.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:51
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Consider just how long it was between the wheel locking and you going down as well. It seems fast but a lot of the time you have time to release the brake if you react. If you didn't, well, let it go. Couldn't have helped it. Not a bad idea to practice this tho. Straight up and down in a parking lot you will have time to release the brake when you lock up, and it'll help build that reaction in you for when it happens on the street. With all the road grime and salt and poo poo on the ground I had a small lockup this weekend. It was a small surprise and not a crash cause I've had it happen before and I let off quickly. ed: another factor could be how you were holding the bars. Too stiff and it can go down quicker. nsaP fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 07:00
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nsaP posted:Consider just how long it was between the wheel locking and you going down as well. It seems fast but a lot of the time you have time to release the brake if you react. If you didn't, well, let it go. Couldn't have helped it. It was quicker than I had time to notice, I barely was on the brake(you can see me whining aimlessly about this in my first post about the wreck). I don't think I'm MootMooting it up, I've only had one minor wreck in 5 years and I think bandits look sexy as poo poo .
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Mar 5, 2014 07:15
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I really want to go and practice this stuff on my bike, but I'm so so scared about dropping it. That said, I never dropped a bike while training but that had the comfort of an instructor and someone elses bike.i
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Mar 7, 2014 09:27
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hermand posted:I really want to go and practice this stuff on my bike, but I'm so so scared about dropping it. That said, I never dropped a bike while training but that had the comfort of an instructor and someone elses bike.i That may be part of the problem. Just be confident you won't and half of the problem is gone.
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Mar 8, 2014 00:50
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I had a pretty decent get off today. My early '80s Honda GL1100 had a rear tire blowout while I was moving at 60MPH with a pillion, my girlfriend. Once I felt the rear of the bike start to weave, I started to move from the right lane to the shoulder, and bled off speed continuously as the bike became more and more unstable. I believe I lowsided it at about 35MPH into the shoulder of the freeway - I'm not sure, since I don't remember much besides realizing I was starting to weave until I woke up on the side of the road with paramedics placing a C-collar on me. The net of it was a badly dislocated shoulder, with some sort of "bony prominence" that apparently supports my ability to lift my left arm to the side broken off. After X-rays, sedation, and popping my shoulder back in, my only other injury was a fat lip. My girlfriend has a very sore hand and hips, but didn't need to go to the hospital at all. I'll post pics of my gear later, but suffice it to say, I wouldn't be posting this right now if it weren't for my helmet. I may have survived, but there would have been severe jaw and facial injury as every bit of impact and abrasion on the Scorpion helmet was from the forehead area to the chinbar. My gloves wore completely through in spots on my right hand, my mesh jacket got pretty holey, my reinforced Carhartt's abraded through the first layer but not the second on the thigh/knee area, though my boots were untouched. Let me say it again - I would have been a loving WRECK if I hadn't worn gear, and my girlfriend would have been hurt badly as well. Instead, I'm taking a single day off of work and didn't even miss dinner the night of the accident. Crashes are still possible even if you're a diligent rider and do pre-trips - I had just increased the tire pressure on my rear to 40psi to accommodate the extra weight of the passenger. Thank you Scorpion and FirstGear for saving my life, and thank you HJC and FirstGear for saving my baby from so much pain and suffering.
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Mar 10, 2014 06:10
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Glad you're ok mate. Crashing like that would be a bit of a mindfuck alone, let alone with a pillion to think about as well. Don't let yourself feel too guilty - doesn't sound like you could have done too much to save it.
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Mar 10, 2014 06:24
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Radbot posted:I had a pretty decent get off today. My early '80s Honda GL1100 had a rear tire blowout while I was moving at 60MPH with a pillion, my girlfriend. I know you said you don't remember much, but do you know if you hit anything besides the ground when you crashed? For example was there a barrier on the shoulder that you collided with?
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Mar 10, 2014 06:40
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Radbot posted:I had a pretty decent get off today. My early '80s Honda GL1100 had a rear tire blowout while I was moving at 60MPH with a pillion, my girlfriend. Yeah this sounds one of those things. You're a poster boy for why wearing gear is a good thing because sometimes lovely poo poo just happens. How old was your tyre, out of curiosity? I'm just wondering if it's an age+load thing or you just ran over something.
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Mar 10, 2014 07:23
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Chichevache posted:I know you said you don't remember much, but do you know if you hit anything besides the ground when you crashed? For example was there a barrier on the shoulder that you collided with? I don't think so - luckily we were on one of the portions of this freeway with a full shoulder and smooth K-rails all the way down, but I believe we stopped sliding before hitting anything. My helmet:  Taking a shower this morning and not taking the shape of my skull and placement of my jaw for granted was kinda weird, and kinda awesome.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:14
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Holy poo poo dude. Glad you and your girlfriend are OK.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:39
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Radbot posted:My helmet: The idiocy of open-face helmets, summed up in one picture. Glad you're ok!
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Mar 10, 2014 16:49
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That helmet  Glad to hear you are alright!
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Mar 10, 2014 16:55
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apseudonym posted:I don't think I'm MootMooting it up, I've only had one minor wreck in 5 years and I think bandits look sexy as poo poo You are delusional. They are the motorcycle equivalent of clogs.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:00
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mootmoot posted:You are delusional. They are the motorcycle equivalent of clogs. Sorry but you are wrong.  Glad to hear you're ok Radbot, helmets are loving amazing.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:21
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