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Dr. Arbitrary posted:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/09/snl-skit-hammers-pro-life-activism-viciously-stereotypes-politically-involved-conservative-men/ Comments deliver. 
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Mar 11, 2014 03:28
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Waffles Inc. posted:this is basically how I end up having to handle holiday family gathering political topics. i'm the sort of scapegoat liberal of my family so after a while of bullshitting someone always wants to stir the pot and will say something ridiculously political and everyone will sort of look over at me expectantly This is roughly the Nth time this has been brought up, but most of your family probably thinks that anyone can find a job eventually if they try hard enough. The poors of today are just lazy and spending their welfare moneys on Cadillacs and iPhones, and starvation would get them to shape up and actually make an effort to work. If they die homeless on the streets, it's completely their fault always. Tying in to what has been said earlier, there will always be hopelessly lazy or stupid people who by their character deserve lovely jobs or no jobs at all, and that's just the way it is. It's basically repackaged social darwinism.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:58
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VitalSigns posted:In my experience, the logic of that argument is totally ignored in favor of doubling down. Yeah, okay. I figured the response to such an approach would be "there are really are just some people who deserve to be paid less than a living wage"
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Mar 11, 2014 04:16
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Just saw my token conservative post this:  The chincy little prick (who I mentioned in the thread before) is big on deriding everyone who falls under the category of "not me". He's also one of those guys who posts temporary internships as actual jobs and uses any connection to a prestigious program as a sense of accomplishment. Basically he's the embodiment of the guilded life. So it's pretty funny to see him try to feel superior over Obama for doing cocaine at some point and having a sloppy signature. Well one signature. From something in 2010. I seriously feel like touching the poop on this one. Would it even be worth posting this: "A former cocaine user who received a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard. Was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Taught at the University of Chicago lecturing on Constitutional Law and is now President of the United States in his second term. What's you're excuse? Oh let me guess: "progressives". " ? I don't even have a connection to the guy beyond him getting a job at the lab I worked at. Which he left in short order. Crain fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 05:35
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You could avoid getting into it too much and just point out to him that the signature looks the way it does because he signed it with multiple pens. edit: It's the signature from the ACA, he signed it with twenty-two pens. Keshik fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 06:00
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Keshik posted:You could avoid getting into it too much and just point out to him that the signature looks the way it does because he signed it with multiple pens. Ah. Well there's that. I guess.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:02
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/09/snl-skit-hammers-pro-life-activism-viciously-stereotypes-politically-involved-conservative-men/ Oh good! They found themselves a younger, growing demographic... trouble is, it's still comprised of indignant, white privilege and it's very unlikely that they'll reproduce.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:07
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Taaaaaaarb! posted:Oh good! They found themselves a younger, growing demographic... trouble is, it's still comprised of indignant, white privilege and it's very unlikely that they'll reproduce. A lot of them have. Child custody is one of the things that drives people to MRA-hood. edit: that it's the closest thing MRAs have to a legit grievance doesn't excuse "I get visitation twice a month --> Rape is okay"
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Mar 11, 2014 06:35
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And besides, while random people on the street won't know what "MRA" means, individual views held by the group are pretty popular with young men in general, or at the very least get lots of head-nodding when you start talking about fake rape accusations.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:54
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Countblanc posted:And besides, while random people on the street won't know what "MRA" means, individual views held by the group are pretty popular with young men in general, or at the very least get lots of head-nodding when you start talking about fake rape accusations. I started to explain the Men's Right's Movement to my dad, and he immediately started complaining about advertisements that portray men as bumbling oafs who can't cook, clean, or care for children. Like child custody, it's one of those problems that props up the patriarchy while screwing men over.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:12
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Any legitimate complaints that an MRA ever has are always something that would be solved by feminism & gender equality. If not, it's probably bullshit.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:17
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I learned a few days ago that my militant anarchist dad (who I've complained about on this thread before) is a MRA sympathizer, and hasn't heard their less savory views because he reads the writing of people like Lew Rockwell all day. I probably shouldn't have been surprised.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:04
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I think the F Plus episodes on the subject are very good at illustrating what exactly the movement is *points to schlong*.
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Mar 11, 2014 12:48
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pd187 posted:Any legitimate complaints that an MRA ever has are always something that would be solved by feminism & gender equality. If not, it's probably bullshit. There was a video with an entertaining response to the "what about equal rights for men?!" crowd: anyone who is against feminism (defined as an ideology that believes in equal rights for women) really hasn't put much thought into what "equal" means or who women would be equal to.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:22
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Stay at home dads suffer under the jackboot of the matriarchy. Excluded from parents groups, shunned at the playground, assumed to be a sexual predator instead of a loving caregiver. Even amazon's baby selection is called "amazon mom" where is the amazon dad section I ask.of you? Where?
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Mar 11, 2014 16:28
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VideoTapir posted:Yeah, a plumber or framing carpenter is "on top." That's the top. Someone's got really narrow horizons, and has no idea how rich the rich are. The more annoying thing is I'd bet good money that the poster is "Pro-life" which means they're telling people they shouldn't have children while at the same time opposing measures that would prevent those pregnancies.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:34
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Crain posted:Just saw my token conservative post this: I'm reminded of how some religious people have tried to dismiss (inconveniently pro-science anti-mythology guy) Carl Sagan because he smoked pot, because they somehow think that that's a condemnation of Sagan and not proof that you can smoke pot and still do great things. Pththya-lyi posted:I started to explain the Men's Right's Movement to my dad, and he immediately started complaining about advertisements that portray men as bumbling oafs who can't cook, clean, or care for children. Like child custody, it's one of those problems that props up the patriarchy while screwing men over.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:59
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Guilty Spork posted:It's one of those things that reminds me that I know a lot more about certain subjects than most people do, because they're unwittingly repeating arguments that have been debunked a zillion times over. Literally everyone knows a lot more about certain subjects than most people do. The dumbest person you know knows more about SOMETHING than you do.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:26
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On the subject of MRA zealots, a guy I know has recently been kicking up the frequency of his facebook Male Oppression posting. His newest obsession seems to be something along the lines of "How can you say men are in power and control everything and women are subjugated when MEN are way more likely to be killed in combat or commit suicide or be put in jail?? Riddle me THAT, White Knights!" He'll just post something like that in response to anything anybody says about inequality. Did some male supremacy shitheel talk about that recently or is it just the MRA hivemind's newest toy?
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Mar 11, 2014 17:28
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Zenzirouj posted:"How can you say men are in power and control everything and women are subjugated when MEN are way more likely to be killed in combat or commit suicide or be put in jail?? Riddle me THAT, White Knights!" For starters, because more women have died of childbirth in the US than men have in wars in the past 12 years despite us being in 2 wars.(out of curiosity is he a goony neckbeard that would have absolutely no chance of ever being in the military? Because that would make it even better)
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Mar 11, 2014 17:40
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Guilty Spork posted:I'm reminded of how some religious people have tried to dismiss (inconveniently pro-science anti-mythology guy) Carl Sagan because he smoked pot, because they somehow think that that's a condemnation of Sagan and not proof that you can smoke pot and still do great things. I don't understand why drug-warriors keep bringing this up. "Carl Sagan smoked pot and look how he turned out!" has to be the worst anti-drug argument ever. But I don't know, if you're a fundamentalist who rejects unholy theories of a heliocentric solar system as a satanic plot to remove God's Greatest Creation from its rightful place at the center of the universe, and you think the Devil can make lies appear in your telescope then I guess it makes sense.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:01
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Amused to Death posted:For starters, because more women have died of childbirth in the US than men have in wars in the past 12 years despite us being in 2 wars.(out of curiosity is he a goony neckbeard that would have absolutely no chance of ever being in the military? Because that would make it even better) Do you have a citation for this from some reliable government source? This would be a good tidbit to use in the future but I would like it to be bulletproof.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:07
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Zenzirouj posted:On the subject of MRA zealots, a guy I know has recently been kicking up the frequency of his facebook Male Oppression posting. His newest obsession seems to be something along the lines of "How can you say men are in power and control everything and women are subjugated when MEN are way more likely to be killed in combat or commit suicide or be put in jail?? Riddle me THAT, White Knights!" He'll just post something like that in response to anything anybody says about inequality. Did some male supremacy shitheel talk about that recently or is it just the MRA hivemind's newest toy? How many women are in congress? How many voted to go to war? How many women are billionaires or CEOs? How many tried to cut your hours and healthcare and mental health benefits?
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Mar 11, 2014 18:19
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LeJackal posted:Do you have a citation for this from some reliable government source? This would be a good tidbit to use in the future but I would like it to be bulletproof. There's this site from the CDC that tracks the mortality rate, so you'd just need to tally that up against the number of births: http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/MaternalInfantHealth/PMSS.html Alternatively, there's this one from the WHO which also includes the total number of deaths: http://www.who.int/gho/maternal_health/countries/en/#U Looking them over, I have to say I'm quite surprised to see that the mortality rate actually seems to be rising. I'd kinda expected (or hoped for) the opposite, at least in a first-world country. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 18:26
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VitalSigns posted:I don't understand why drug-warriors keep bringing this up. "Carl Sagan smoked pot and look how he turned out!" has to be the worst anti-drug argument ever. I have seen this trotted out as a pro-pot point. How the hell could this be construed as an argument against?
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Mar 11, 2014 18:41
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The CDC says around 650 women a year die in childbirth in the United States(they don't say exact numbers by year). If you lowball it and round it down to 600 and multiply it by 12, you wind up with 7,200, in the same time period there's been around 6,700 US deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan. It probably has something to do with the fact the large majority of men will never serve in them military period, let alone see combat, while the good majority of women will face pregnancy at one point, many of them more than once. As for suicide, a large part of the gap can be attributed to weapon of choice. When you look at the CDC charts for male and female suicides, males tend to average a bit higher than women on most methods, but there are two notable variations. The poisons line on the female chart is quite a bit higher than on the male chart, and the gun line on the male chart just blows everything out the water. Men are much more likely to use a gun, and a gun to your head has at least a 99% chance of instant death if you attempt it. Cutting, poisons, hanging, ect all leave a window open to change your mind and call for help/have someone find you.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:42
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Amused to Death posted:As for suicide, a large part of the gap can be attributed to weapon of choice. When you look at the CDC charts for male and female suicides, males tend to average a bit higher than women on most methods, but there are two notable variations. The poisons line on the female chart is quite a bit higher than on the male chart, and the gun line on the male chart just blows everything out the water. Which again comes down to destructive gender roles. This paper from WHO seems on topic, if a bit outdated. Gendered Analysis of Sex Differences in Suicide-Related Behaviors posted:These findings suggest that sex differences in rates of
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Mar 11, 2014 18:56
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Defenestration posted:This is an old talking point. It's a class issue: the 1% are the ones oppressing you, and they are overwhelmingly men. It's funny because at the same time as they're marginalized, women have been socialized to be better at 21st century first-world work. Less violent, less dickwavey, more likely to work cooperatively, better-educated. It must sting to see manly work displaced by machinery and immigrant labor while womanly work grows more valuable each year. But rather than learn the lessons of "Machismo is dumb" and "Collaboration isn't bad" and "Women aren't lesser beings", MRAs instead learn "She should be earning her Mutterkreuz!" Ron Jeremy posted:Even amazon's baby selection is called "amazon mom" where is the amazon dad section I ask.of you? Where? https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000626391&ref_=sa_menu_adr_dl sweart gliwere fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 18:57
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Ban all guns for enabling destructive gender roles.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:59
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Hello Sailor posted:Ban all guns for enabling destructive gender roles. Then they start falling on their swords again. Togas optional, but encouraged.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:16
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sweart gliwere posted:It's funny because at the same time as they're marginalized, women have been socialized to be better at 21st century first-world work. Less violent, less dickwavey, more likely to work cooperatively, better-educated. It must sting to see manly work displaced by machinery and immigrant labor while womanly work grows more valuable each year. But rather than learn the lessons of "Machismo is dumb" and "Collaboration isn't bad" and "Women aren't lesser beings", MRAs instead learn "She should be earning her Mutterkreuz!"] Looking at popular culture it's not really surprising that a lot of men don't think "Machismo is dumb". It is but you can't really fault people for not coming to that realization independently when we base entire industries around perpetuating violence and outdated gender norms. The manliest man is still someone who shoots other men in the face.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:29
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Anosmoman posted:The manliest man is still someone who shoots other men in the face. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXEuEUQIP3Q&t=4m1s The manliest man is the poet. As his own master, he can experience emotion without throwing a goddamn tantrum.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:59
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Crain posted:Would it even be worth posting this: "A former cocaine user who received a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard. Was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Taught at the University of Chicago lecturing on Constitutional Law and is now President of the United States in his second term. What's you're excuse? Oh let me guess: "progressives". " ? I don't even have a connection to the guy beyond him getting a job at the lab I worked at. Which he left in short order. I've had a similar encounter with someone, and all touting Obama's credentials got was "the affirmative action president  ". Some folks can't imagine black people actually being successful without it being 100% the result of affirmative action or welfare.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:08
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snorch posted:I have seen this trotted out as a pro-pot point. How the hell could this be construed as an argument against? The only reasoning I can think of is that Sagan died fairly young - I thought it was cancer but wiki says it was MDS.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:49
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McDowell posted:The only reasoning I can think of is that Sagan died fairly young - I thought it was cancer but wiki says it was MDS. MDS rates are increased in tobacco smokers, but somehow I doubt that's what's going on in the heads of the people trying to make that very weird argument.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:01
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Amused to Death posted:For starters, because more women have died of childbirth in the US than men have in wars in the past 12 years despite us being in 2 wars.(out of curiosity is he a goony neckbeard that would have absolutely no chance of ever being in the military? Because that would make it even better) Defenestration posted:This is an old talking point. It's a class issue: the 1% are the ones oppressing you, and they are overwhelmingly men.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:05
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 Touched the poop. Went pretty much where it was expected to go. He gets called out on bullshit and then says it's a troll. Never mind the fact that he posts poo poo like this constantly about a large number of topics. Crain fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 04:58
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Zenzirouj posted:"How can you say men are in power and control everything and women are subjugated when MEN are way more likely to be killed in combat Women are legally barred from entering combat except in edge cases, because the US military does not allow women into certain MOS. drat those women for discriminating against themselves! e: Huh, Panetta lifted the ban a little more than a year ago. http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/18/politics/women-combat/ boner confessor fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 05:03
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Zenzirouj posted:I'm not looking for ways to counter his arguments; I've already done so many times and he's not much of a challenge. I was just wondering if there was some recent event in the MRA crowd that would suddenly send him down this particular tangent. Kind of like how Limbaugh will say something asinine and a day later it's the new talking point. I think that's an old(ish) talking point that your friend has recently discovered for himself. Also, if powerful men are already taking all their marching orders from their wives, why haven't those wives seized direct control for themselves?
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Mar 12, 2014 07:52
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I'm thinking I should start dishing out some political stuff on Facebook. I feel obligated to balance out all the craziness I see, including articles from The Blaze, Alex Jones, gun control memes, Obama vs. Putin memes, and my personal favorite: A chart done in MS Paint titled "The Nature Hierarchy of the House" that has MAN: PROVIDER OF THE FAMILY and beneath it, WOMEN: MAINTAINER OF THE HOME AND KIDS. Can't make this poo poo up. Any advice on making political Facebook posts? It seems the shorter the better as more will actually read them, though that lowers the chance for high quality content. Also, as hard as it is, remove all or most of the underlying snark.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:07
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