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Wulfling posted:Read what HADES did a couple of days ago to PL... Utterly Inspired Hilarity. Who did what now?
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Mar 11, 2014 15:21
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Any time I read an ellipsis, I hear it in my head as the shuddering, strained breath of a 400-pound shut-in.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:21
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Khablam posted:n.b. None of that has anything to do with CCP and the guy just makes his own things. He'll often fake-post them on Reddit along the lines of "new SISI ship dumps". If you see anything Caldari prime whatever, or Paul Oosterman, it's his own work he's trolling out as CCP's. I'd definitely knife someone if it meant I could put a Fed Customs Police skin on my Kronos... E: Cease to Hope posted:Any time I read an ellipsis, I hear it in my head as the shuddering, strained breath of a 400-pound shut-in. E2: Uba Stij posted:Who did what now? Hobold fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:22
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DisgracelandUSA posted:A prime joke ripe for the picking... I'm probably not the best one to speak to this, but it's probably a little too early to hit the panic button on 'afk' ratting. I know people are responding to the patch note about tweaked AI target management, but having rats constantly target drones would pretty much neuter active drone ratters too, wouldn't it? If I'm having to constantly recall drones in what should be a manageable fight it becomes more than just a time/attention multiplier - it becomes an annoyance. I haven't been playing long enough since my years long break to know how patches go these days, but I would imagine the community reaction to that would be too much for actual consideration? And if something like that happens regardless, I'm hopeful there would be a more elegant solution than drone micro. Also I'm probably too optimistic.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:28
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I'm pretty much an active afk-ratter so it would suck if they ruined things for active drones too. Atleast I can use a Tengu soon anyway if drone ratting does fall through.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:32
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If they nerf drone ratting, you just turn the dude into a carrier pilot and sell him. nbd.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:34
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Reading through the reimbursement terms, would I really get a full 70m isk for loving around in a claw, trying to learn the ropes of solo PvP? It sounds way too good to be true.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:35
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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sulley posted:I'm probably not the best one to speak to this, but it's probably a little too early to hit the panic button on 'afk' ratting. I know people are responding to the patch note about tweaked AI target management, but having rats constantly target drones would pretty much neuter active drone ratters too, wouldn't it? If I'm having to constantly recall drones in what should be a manageable fight it becomes more than just a time/attention multiplier - it becomes an annoyance. Or they could work the AI somehow so that if rats aren't getting targeted every so many time units, rats attack drones. That doesn't bother active drone ratters, but does go after afk ratters. VVVVVV I don't think anyone has seen CCP say anything about afk ratting. But this is CCP so who the gently caress knows. And besides, they don't want you to rat. They want you to do exploration, since they've been working the exploration things pretty hard the last few expansions. CainFortea fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:35
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Has CCP openly stated any intention to break afk ratting? I don't loving understand CCP when it comes to nullsec income. Active ratting was a thing for a long time, until they decided they didn't like it and actively tried to break many viable active ratting setups. What do they want us running anomalies in, exactly? They make one of the worst activities in the game (pve) absolutely necessary, then routinely poo poo on players trying to make it less painful. If they're actually gonna axe afk ratting soon, I hope they intend to introduce a viable alternative that doesn't require tens of millions of SP and billions of isk. edit: my understanding is that the AI change pertains to how the AI treats gankers and won't be breaking AFK ratting yet. e2: CainFortea posted:I don't think anyone has seen CCP say anything about afk ratting. But this is CCP so who the gently caress knows. And besides, they don't want you to rat. They want you to do exploration, since they've been working the exploration things pretty hard the last few expansions. If they want us to explore, they need to make it viable. Data sites are nearly useless, relic sites make a pittance, and there aren't enough exploration anomalies in the game to support wide-scale exploration. Deklein stays goonrushed 23/7 and you're lucky to make more than a few million per site. Riot Bimbo fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 15:36
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Deofuta posted:The null-sov game is something that is super alluring for new players and people who have never tried it before, and pretty repellant for a lot of those who know what it entails and understand what needs to be done when you are now tied to a particular area. Once we heard about the incident with DD our forums were split between those who were super excited and pushing to take space, and those who wanted no part in it. Whether BNI keeps its space or not, maybe going through the experience will help temper their enthusiasm for this particular side of eve. Oh, you mean you actually discuss things?  I still don't actually know how decisions are made in BNI. They just seem to magically materialise, and then people are free to cheer. If you happen to criticise anything, you'll get piled on by people because criticism is either denounced as "whining" or seen as "negative for morale", and shut down either way.Somebody here (or in the old thread?) called EVE a libertarian's wet dream. But it works rather nicely as a case-study in authoritarianism as well: quote:What is inflicted upon all by few always takes place as the overpowering of the individual by many: the oppression of society always carries the traits of an oppression by a collective. To the individual pilot, all decisions appear as decisions of the alliance as such, even if the actual decision for the alliance has been made by a select few. However, you cannot argue with the "universal consent" that is the alliance, whereas you would be able to argue with any single person or defined group. Given the above translation of a quote, I get the feeling it's called Brave Collective for a reason, right? 
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Mar 11, 2014 15:42
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It'd be cool if HERO got a chunk of the southern sov and just turned rusrus space into a thunderdome of sorts. Lots of low-effort, low-skill fights for aspiring FCs to cut their chops on, and more competent neighbours for when they're feeling really frisky. Providing N2 keeps their noses out of the area, a war like that might serve to a) kick the russians asses into gear (fat chance, but one can dream) and b) harden up the HERO coalition into something that can hold sov and actually draw blood from (if not go toe to toe with) some of the major null powers. I imagine purging TEST would be an important first step 
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Mar 11, 2014 15:43
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darth cookie posted:I don't mind BNI getting some null space for themselves, but it seems like it was more of a situation where it sort of fell into their laps rather than by virtue of their own efforts. Man, I just can't think of any other alliance that just had sov fall into their laps.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:48
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ChickenWing posted:I imagine purging TEST would be an important first step In my fantasies, this is the first step of every eve decision tree and flow-chart. hemophilia posted:Has CCP openly stated any intention to break afk ratting? I don't loving understand CCP when it comes to nullsec income. Active ratting was a thing for a long time, until they decided they didn't like it and actively tried to break many viable active ratting setups. What do they want us running anomalies in, exactly? They make one of the worst activities in the game (pve) absolutely necessary, then routinely poo poo on players trying to make it less painful. If they're actually gonna axe afk ratting soon, I hope they intend to introduce a viable alternative that doesn't require tens of millions of SP and billions of isk. Excuse me, just spreading the FUD for discussions sake. Gihon posted:Gallente cruiser V is pretty useful. The Arazu, Proteus, and Onieros are all drat good ships. This is true, but I'd rather have the e-honourable Falcon alt than the noble Arazu alt.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:50
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CainFortea posted:VVVVVV I think most people are reacting to this note on the test server: * NPC AI has been enhanced to handle multiple targets in more robust way. It's not an outright callout, but it hovering in that direction. I did see it mentioned that someone has tested it since that patch note came out and afk drone ratting seems unaffected, on the plus side.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:51
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Hollow Talk posted:Somebody here (or in the old thread?) called EVE a libertarian's wet dream. But it works rather nicely as a case-study in authoritarianism as well: If EVE's taught me anything, it's that the one leads to the other.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:56
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sulley posted:I think most people are reacting to this note on the test server: This somewhat makes me happy I never ventured down that road to begin with. I don't mind drones but that play style seems as boring to me as mining does. What is the allure? I don't get why sentry boats are soo drat popular.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:57
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Wulfling posted:This somewhat makes me happy I never ventured down that road to begin with. I don't mind drones but that play style seems as boring to me as mining does. What is the allure? I don't get why sentry boats are soo drat popular. Isn't this just a question of synergies? If you use drone boats in fleets and for corporation/alliance level activities, might as well use it in your "spare" time as well, since you have it geared and skilled anyway. (At least pre-drone assist nerf...)
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Mar 11, 2014 16:01
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Wulfling posted:This somewhat makes me happy I never ventured down that road to begin with. I don't mind drones but that play style seems as boring to me as mining does. What is the allure? I don't get why sentry boats are soo drat popular. Unlike mining, drone skills and Gallente hull skills are useful for PvP, which removes the one thing that's actually wrong with mining. With that out of the way, the ability to make money without actually having to play EVE is invaluable. Also, it's done with heavies, not sentries. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 16:01
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Word on Theta mumble was that AI wasn't noticeably different when ratting on SiSi so here's hoping it isn't nerfed.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:03
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Hollow Talk posted:Somebody here (or in the old thread?) called EVE a libertarian's wet dream. But it works rather nicely as a case-study in authoritarianism as well: You're repeating yourself here. Libertarianism is always Authoritarianism But With Me In Charge.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:07
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Unlike mining, drone skills and Gallente hull skills are useful for PvP, which removes the one thing that's actually wrong with mining. Ah that makes a bit more sense then. I've never really looked at what I do as being applicable to fleet doctrines. They are still some nebulous unknowable thing that I just try to avoid staring at lest I get lost in them. Too much time spent being a dumb rear end running missions in High Sec.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:11
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sulley posted:I think most people are reacting to this note on the test server: I also do wonder if ratters make up a significant portion of the ISK side of the PLEX market.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:21
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Retarded Goatee posted:Reading through the reimbursement terms, would I really get a full 70m isk for loving around in a claw, trying to learn the ropes of solo PvP? If you're in Goonwaffe this is true. Space Socialism at it's finest 
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Mar 11, 2014 16:52
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hemophilia posted:Has CCP openly stated any intention to break afk ratting? I don't loving understand CCP when it comes to nullsec income. Active ratting was a thing for a long time, until they decided they didn't like it and actively tried to break many viable active ratting setups. What do they want us running anomalies in, exactly? They make one of the worst activities in the game (pve) absolutely necessary, then routinely poo poo on players trying to make it less painful. If they're actually gonna axe afk ratting soon, I hope they intend to introduce a viable alternative that doesn't require tens of millions of SP and billions of isk. CCP's motivation behind adjusting nullsec income is primarily to staunch what we call the ISK FAUCET. Ratting in particular is problematic for CCP because it generates new isk into the economy, which dilutes the value of existing isk. The reason you see repeated and coruscating nerfs to ratting is because the evolving PVE META makes ratting generate more isk than CCP is comfortable with. This is why I was so gung-ho about the ESS -- it finally allowed CCP to transition a portion of ratting income from isk to LP, which CCP is free to adjust upwards without worrying about the isk faucet. This is also why I tend to be sour on ratting as a money maker in general -- it is too vulnerable to CCP action because it generates isk from thin air. Science and industry, by comparison, is a lot less vulnerable to this sort of poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:55
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hemophilia posted:Has CCP openly stated any intention to break afk ratting? I don't loving understand CCP when it comes to nullsec income. A number of people thought that the anom frigate change was directed more at afk ratting (with sentries at the time) and that killing the naga / talos ratting was a side effect. I was pretty convinced that it was directed at sentries, because even though the t3 active ratting was crazy profitable, it was so active that nobody was going to do it for hours at a time. But then during the ESS threadnaught that one dev slipped about "huge amounts of isk entering the game" from nullsec ratters, and I'm not sure anymore. Wolfy posted:I also do wonder if ratters make up a significant portion of the ISK side of the PLEX market. But thinking that CCP cares about who are the consumers of plex or how much they're going for is a bad assumption. They care about sudden price changes for plex, and they care about the number on their balance sheet because they mark them as a liability. But I don't think they care if they're being used by miners, missioners, nullsec ratters, or whoever.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:56
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Klyith posted:I'm sure it's a lot. As much as we complain that L4 mission runners can make almost the same amount of isk/hr as a nullsec ratter, most of them make far less. Other occupations are just as lucrative (wormholes, faction warfare) but have much fewer people doing them.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:59
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Hollow Talk posted:Oh, you mean you actually discuss things? We discuss things sure, but its largely a matter of opinion, we don't make some sort of collective opinion on things. Trying to have consensus decision making the primary means in alliance matters has not been a very successful operation. pugnax posted:Man, I just can't think of any other alliance that just had sov fall into their laps. Eve is cyclical. But who is BNI's Tau Ceti Federation?
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Mar 11, 2014 17:01
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Retarded Goatee posted:Reading through the reimbursement terms, would I really get a full 70m isk for loving around in a claw, trying to learn the ropes of solo PvP? I welped 3 solo Taranises in a row in FW lowsec last week and got paid 70m for each of them, so yes. I would feel much less guilty using SRP if I had nearly as many kills as I do losses.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:03
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Nobody, DD is russian d2/youwhat changeover fuckups.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:04
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Mimetic posted:I welped 3 solo Taranises in a row in FW lowsec last week and got paid 70m for each of them, so yes. I think that the idea is to break the feeling of guilt or setback from losing a ship, so you'll be more willing to take risks and undock. Players who don't get positive feedback from kills need that even more, to help fight the feeling that you're wasting your time when you do lose. Don't worry about it. That money is there specifically for players like you.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:27
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Glory of Arioch posted:CCP's motivation behind adjusting nullsec income is primarily to staunch what we call the ISK FAUCET. Ratting in particular is problematic for CCP because it generates new isk into the economy, which dilutes the value of existing isk. The reason you see repeated and coruscating nerfs to ratting is because the evolving PVE META makes ratting generate more isk than CCP is comfortable with. This is why I was so gung-ho about the ESS -- it finally allowed CCP to transition a portion of ratting income from isk to LP, which CCP is free to adjust upwards without worrying about the isk faucet. There has to be a better way to regulate the flow of isk into the game than constantly hate-loving isk making methods that generate new isk. I hate industry, production, and all of that. I'm not alone in this, but I goddamn hate it. It's juggling spread sheets and interacting with the worst and most arcane parts of Eve Online. Even in a drone boat I at least get to peek in, watch some ships explode, and maybe even experience pvp. Fattening the wallet might be the goal but watching that number get bigger isn't entertaining enough by itself. I don't know how much of an actual problem inflation is in a video game, but I'd rather have more arbitrary isk sinks in place or devalued isk than being in the middle of CCP's war on inflation where their first line of defense is seemingly always to break most enjoyable/least painful isk making methods.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:27
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hemophilia posted:There has to be a better way to regulate the flow of isk into the game than constantly hate-loving isk making methods that generate new isk. The ESS's concept has been one step in this direction — they were able to shift a portion of the isk reward to LP. LP is a net isk sink, so it is a great way to reward the player for a PvE activity while keeping the isk injection down. Part of the problem is, of course, ourselves — we are able to optimize Eve's PvE much more aggressively than CCP can conceptualize. This is only natural, of course — there's a lot more of us than there are of them, for example. However, we have to shoulder some of the blame ourselves, on account of our rapacity for making money.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:34
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Glory of Arioch posted:Part of the problem is, of course, ourselves — we are able to optimize Eve's PvE much more aggressively than CCP can conceptualize. This is only natural, of course — there's a lot more of us than there are of them, for example. However, we have to shoulder some of the blame ourselves, on account of our rapacity for making money. Mining CCP's patience.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:39
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Kjep64 posted:When I first read this I thought, "oh my god, we can kill Concord without the insta lock, insta jam, insta nuet, loving infinity range scram and wtf kill omni damage types and insane resists!?" I'm still sad. Several years ago a friend gave me his stuff when he was quitting the game. Among the things he had? Concord dog tags. I wish I had held on to those now.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:52
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Glory of Arioch posted:The ESS's concept has been one step in this direction — they were able to shift a portion of the isk reward to LP. LP is a net isk sink, so it is a great way to reward the player for a PvE activity while keeping the isk injection down. To me, LP feels just like another currency, specifically one that has varying exchange rates depending on what you convert it into. How exactly does it shake out as a net ISK sink? Just curious.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:43
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Siets posted:To me, LP feels just like another currency, specifically one that has varying exchange rates depending on what you convert it into. How exactly does it shake out as a net ISK sink? Just curious. You have to pay ISK to the NPC faction to cash it out. LP can't be transferred between characters so it isn't a currency, at least not a practical one.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:45
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Siets posted:To me, LP feels just like another currency, specifically one that has varying exchange rates depending on what you convert it into. How exactly does it shake out as a net ISK sink? Just curious. Converting it from LP into an item to sell usually requires spending isk. Even more importantly, the isk you gain comes from other players, not from ~magic~.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:45
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I forgot about paying ISK to cash it out. It's been years since I have touched missions. Thanks for the clarification. bonewitch, yes the ISK comes from other players but the LP itself does still get magicked out of thin air via the gameplay (thus diluting the LP value, no?) I know from chat in jabber the past few days that quite a few missioners in GSF are a bit salty about the ESS and the effect it has had on LP/ISK values.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:02
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bonewitch posted:Converting it from LP into an item to sell usually requires spending isk. Even more importantly, the isk you gain comes from other players, not from ~magic~. This is correct. When I talk about ISK FAUCETS and ISK SINKS, I'm referring to a concept that's a bit different to whether an individual's wallet goes up or down. We'll take the sink analogy to full retard levels in this explanation here. Think of all the liquid isk that all players have as fitting inside of the bowl of a sink. Say I buy a PLEX from someone via direct trade. Yes, this is not something that happens in the game, but it has no associated fees so it's a good example for this paragraph. I lose 630m isk, sure, but the other person gains the same amount of money. The total amount of isk in the sink bowl didn't change. Now, say I buy a skillbook from an NPC vendor. The ISK spent on that skillbook doesn't go to a player; it's removed from the game. As such, in our analogy, the drain on the sink is unstoppered slightly, and a small amount of isk falls out of the bowl. This is an ISK SINK. Now, in the next action, I undock and I shoot rats in a belt. CONCORD pays bounties into my wallet. This money is directly added to the game by the server. This is an ISK FAUCET since it increases the amount of total isk in the sink bowl. The reason why ratting is such risky business and so prone to catching CCP nerfs isn't because it's making an individual's wallet get too big, too fast — it's because it's opening the ISK FAUCET and making the total amount of isk in the bowl go up. Adding LP to anomaly ratting is good because LP is an ISK SINK — in order to turn the LP into money, you have to first redeem it from a Loyalty Point Store, which costs isk (and is an ISK SINK in its own regard), and then you go and sell the item to a player, which is largely isk neutral (actually, due to market fees, it's a minor ISK SINK in itself.) Because of this, if CCP deigns that anomalies are not lucrative enough and want to increase their ability to enrich individual players, they can adjust the LP reward from ratting without fear of causing too much isk to flow into the bowl.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:04
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Siets posted:I forgot about paying ISK to cash it out. It's been years since I have touched missions. Thanks for the clarification. They don't care about LP inflation, only isk inflation.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:21
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