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kingcom posted:I was exaggerating about the afk on the ship thing. My joke was that its often difficult to mix the marines in with an infiltration of an imperial society plot which is what the core book really seems to push and promote until they realised the game is way better at just being a power fantasy game. Power fantasy does seem like a good time....
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Mar 11, 2014 01:46
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Yeah, the whole visible corruption/mutation heavy nature of things makes it hard to see who they were meant to be infiltrating.
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Mar 11, 2014 01:47
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Infiltrating other Screaming Vortex worlds of course! 
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Mar 11, 2014 01:49
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BC makes a lot more sense when you understand the tone and content is a death metal album cover illustrated in Looney Tunes style. So Brutal Legend, I guess. ALso i'm considering a homebrew set up for alt mutations. Pass a corruption threshold and pick a trait, its yours. If its a trait with X, the X is equivalent to the natural bonus you have on your god's favored attribute. If you're unaligned pick one attribute bonus of your choosing. (Unnatural Characteristic mutations can only be half favored attribute bonus (round up). Work with the Gm how this manifests, either blatantly or subtley. Yes, it removes a lot of of the swing of random mutations, but it eliminates random gently caress yous. Unless you really wanted to be a mechanical herm taur with wings that is also on fire. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 04:27
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VanSandman posted:Power fantasy does seem like a good time.... Hey don't get me wrong, Black Crusade can be a kicking rad game but its really refocused itself after realising that what they pitched in the core rulebooks never worked.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:40
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Ronwayne posted:
I'm not entirely sure why else you'd play Black Crusade. I just remember my players consistently trying to do more and more insane things, waiting for the dice to turn against them, and it never happening.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:43
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Night10194 posted:I'm not entirely sure why else you'd play Black Crusade. Did they, at any point, cackle madly?
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Mar 11, 2014 04:45
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I think around the time that they just plain landed their shuttle on a pirate king, walked out, and cowed all his pirate minions into following them forever, then used them as bait to get the King of all Leviathans to swallow them so they could steal a spaceship in his belly and blow their way out of him as a sacrifice to the Gods, yes. Goddamn that game was awesome.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:47
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The core rulebook was basically completely unsure of what it wanted to do. Non-marines basically existed for infiltration and leading tons of minions, but mutations made it (nearly) impossible to infiltrate. Marines didn't mix with non-marines in any way... All sorts of inconsistencies. It basically felt like the book changed hands halfway through development and instead of starting over, the new person just tacked poo poo on without thinking about it. I assume they were trying to let the game do anything, but it came across as something with no focus, lots of broken rules, and no good way to play anything. The horrible clusterfuck that is the Minion rules is one good example of that.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:47
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So many many minor minions with flamers.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:58
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Alright, I've pretty much figured out that Black Crusade is sort of like Fallout: New Vegas: Chaos Edition. The best way to play it is as a gang of people who are steadily gaining influence. You start off on a world, with just the gang of you, against some larger more powerful entity on your world, probably the imperium. You then try and gather up the unaligned clans and gangs on your world until you can take it over, and then you set off into space, gathering more and more worlds, more and more followers... Until you get to terra, and melt the golden throne.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:26
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You may find it has already been looted 
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Mar 11, 2014 10:56
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On the whole infiltration thing, I've been floating around the idea of doing like a radical inquisition game using black crusade, and it is easier than it sounds, as long as the GM is a bit forgiving. So yes, there are some visible mutations, but ways to conceal them, not all pleasant. Grow wings? Chop the Fuckers off. Grow horns? Sand them down hell boy style and wear a helmet. Get mutated into a goat creature? Replace what you can with bionics, and hide the rest under power armor. Now, that doesn't solve the actual problems with the core mechanics, but in a game where you're still working for the imperium, though toying with the dark gods, having to chop stuff off or hide under armor sounds right tonally.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:01
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Black Crusade and its sourcebooks are head and shoulders above the other DH games in terms of creative, interesting settings and characters. It's just that the game itself is best played with a very lax attitude in terms of dice rolls and skill checks.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:29
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How do you handle being able to build Ogryn that are smarter than regular Guardsmen? Ogryn is -15 IN, so you can start with a 25 IN Ogryn? I'm guessing they're going to be the Bone'ead candidates for when Shield of Humanity comes out. They seem like they'd be kind of unbalanced; as smart as a Guardsman, a bit slower, and way beefier. I guess the main thing is the lack of Ogryn-proof weapons, and their inability to fight tanks.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:33
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Black Crusade and its sourcebooks are head and shoulders above the other DH games in terms of creative, interesting settings and characters. It's just that the game itself is best played with a very lax attitude in terms of dice rolls and skill checks. Yeah, BC is pretty much the only game in the line where I thought to myself 'Yes, I want to use this setting, the one they included with the book.' Calixis is a pile, The Expanse is (on purpose) very vague and pretty much like filling in your own blanks, the Jericho Reach is okay but kinda eh, and the Spinward Front is pretty standard, but the Screaming Vortex was actually pretty fun to use.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:38
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Rockopolis posted:How do you handle being able to build Ogryn that are smarter than regular Guardsmen? Ogryn is -15 IN, so you can start with a 25 IN Ogryn? A 25 Int Ogryn is just clever for an Ogryn. They still have the Uneducated trait that makes them unable to take Logic, Scholastic/Forbidden lore, and doubles the exp cost of training Int and Fellowship skills.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:44
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Night10194 posted:Yeah, BC is pretty much the only game in the line where I thought to myself 'Yes, I want to use this setting, the one they included with the book.' Calixis is a pile, The Expanse is (on purpose) very vague and pretty much like filling in your own blanks, the Jericho Reach is okay but kinda eh, and the Spinward Front is pretty standard, but the Screaming Vortex was actually pretty fun to use. Yeah, the only problem with Black Crusade is GM's are thinking of it as reverse Dark Heresy, where you want to tussle the imperiums hair a little bit. gently caress that poo poo, Black Crusade is about getting people on your side and destroying whatever is in your way. Be that the Imperium, other chaos, necrons, whatever.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:58
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Mechafunkzilla posted:A 25 Int Ogryn is just clever for an Ogryn. They still have the Uneducated trait that makes them unable to take Logic, Scholastic/Forbidden lore, and doubles the exp cost of training Int and Fellowship skills. 25 Int is genius for an Ogryn, without cerebral implants, but it's also what a non-technical Guardsman is going to end up with. Then again, they joined the Guard, how smart could they be? I guess I can work with they think differently or slowly, or they're more or less completely uneducated, but it's just weird. I think uneducated but not (very) stupid, just narrow, might be best.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:00
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Rockopolis posted:Wait, is this for OW or something else? Ogryn don't have an Uneducated trait in OW. They just have an IN penalty and a lack of intelligence aptitude. I just googled Ogryn rules so there's a decent chance that's from some homebrew page or whatever. If so, my bad.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:37
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Yeah. I'm not sure if I should recount the tale of Ogyrn Cassanova, But yes, Ogryns with high 30s Fel and Charm can torpedo your game like you wouldn't believe.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:24
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I like the Calixis sector. I'm not sure what it's supposed to have that isn't a million types of heresy, a decadent yet rigid power structure, and a prophesy of doom that could be fulfilled in dozens of ways. I guess it makes sense to not like it if you want to play a Space Marine. That would be missing the point, though. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 02:50
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Funktastic Dog posted:Yeah, the only problem with Black Crusade is GM's are thinking of it as reverse Dark Heresy, where you want to tussle the imperiums hair a little bit. Also I missed this, but yes. Creating little cults is what minions and/or influence favors are for. The PC archetypes are there for when the subsector governor needs to be seduced/outwitted/smashed into a pulp/not necessarily in that order.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:21
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Hodgepodge posted:I like the Calixis sector. I'm not sure what it's supposed to have that isn't a million types of heresy, a decadent yet rigid power structure, and a prophesy of doom that could be fulfilled in dozens of ways. I don't know, I just find the neo-Victorian styling and such really dreadfully boring. There also isn't a huge amount to do as a Xenos party; it's definitely much better suited to Hereticus. But that's fine. It's easy to write your own planets/Subsector/Sector.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:53
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Night10194 posted:I don't know, I just find the neo-Victorian styling and such really dreadfully boring. There also isn't a huge amount to do as a Xenos party; it's definitely much better suited to Hereticus. But that's fine. It's easy to write your own planets/Subsector/Sector. Umm the amount of horrible alien monstrosities that are popping up all over the place seems like a good start for a xenos party. Particularly given they have direct path to a tyranid splinter fleet on their doorstep (which is just asking for a genestealer cult setup to begin before the invasion) along with all the crazy stuff in the Koronus expanse that wants in combined with the stuff already living there like the maggot people things (completely blanking on their names. I mean you can always fall back on the tried and true eldar are scum bags routine who are pretty likely to be hanging around given its the Segmentum Obscurus and everything which I'm pretty sure was Eldar Empire territory back in the day.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:03
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Xenos deals directly with aliens, with alien tech in human hands, with dangerous alien lifeforms... Think parasites that control their hosts, alien diseases, alien created crops, better versions of tech that aren't authorized by the mechanicus... You can have an entire story based around tracing down the source of xenos-made artifacts that are actually ENTIRELY beneficial, but completely unauthorized, and the mechanicus has outright refused to approve of them because they can't replicate it. What kind of moral quandry will you have when told to destroy the only source of something that regrows limbs or cures horrible diseases, and destroy/confiscate any that you find?
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Mar 12, 2014 05:10
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Yeah, the maggotmen Slaugh are pretty loving cool. I wish they'd actually been in the core book. I've used them in a couple things, transplanting them out of Calixis. By the time I read about them I'd already pretty much written enough of a sector to use, and just moved them to it, instead.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:19
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What does the inside of a starship look like? Is it just a bunch of different room within that massive thing, or is it more like this http://i.imgur.com/ZVhNFgw.jpg and this http://i.imgur.com/StBxqaD.jpg
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Mar 12, 2014 07:08
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Something stupid like 90% of a warship is meant to be engines and guns. Do whatever you want though. Ship designs will have done a lot in the ~10,000 years it could have been built in.
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Mar 12, 2014 13:11
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I see them as gargantuan machinery that the crew huddles between. Aesthetically I really dislike the sort of spaceship design where it's just a set of rooms and open spaces, and the ship proper is tucked into the corner somewhere. The bulk of the ship should reflect the purpose it's made for.
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Mar 12, 2014 13:39
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For most settings i'd agree, but giant flying space cathedrals implies a huge open area. I mean, if they can afford to waste exterior hull space on mile high statues...
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Mar 12, 2014 14:02
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Imagine strapping a dozen Saturn V rockets to Vatican City. That's a frigate.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:27
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Maybe wide open vistas like that are for the exclusive use of The Lord-Captain but that looks far too spacious, well-lit, and luxurious for any area the ratings have access to. Most of the average ship is definitely not wide open air like that. It would only be in specialized areas like bilge tanks or hydroponic megafauna that you might find something like that. It looks cool be thanks for posting it! But basically it IS grandiose but inviting instead of humbling. It gives the dregs a reason to look up with some emotion other than dread. It could work as a ship exterior, where all the space is menacing vacuum instead of breathable air. So I guess my major point is, get some more misery and oppression in there. Maybe it was a wide open pleasure vessel ten thousand years ago but the space is full of millennia of improvised human-powered workstations installed to replace failing automated ones. Make sure any extravagance is in a form the ships peasants couldn't meaningfully enjoy it except in prayer.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:57
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Ronwayne posted:For most settings i'd agree, but giant flying space cathedrals implies a huge open area. I mean, if they can afford to waste exterior hull space on mile high statues... Basically you need an appropriate ratio of ship parts to church parts. Unless it's function is literally a space church.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:40
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Which, if you are building one, should be equipped with multiple drop-temples.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:42
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Are Chaos Marines overpowered in Black Crusade, or harder to kill or stuff? One of my players suggested that we play as just humans, in which case you dont get a lot of leeway.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:29
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They're genetically enhanced super-soldiers, in super-advanced armour suits, who have been granted minor blessings by various major god-entities who want them to kill their enemies. They're about as difficult to kill as they should be.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:32
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But moreso than the humans? Basically, are they balanced?
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Mar 12, 2014 16:37
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Funktastic Dog posted:But moreso than the humans? Basically, are they balanced? Not really. They greatly prefer different kinds of game, and you'll run into a lot of situations where one of the two feels vastly underpowered.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:41
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Combatwise they are superior in pretty much every way.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:43
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