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vyst posted:What does the fox say? illum leaks itt Blawrf fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 16:11
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Kettlepip posted:Presumably the organisation of those activities doesn't provide an acceptable amount of fun per hour. The sad thing is, this is probably a "valid" justification for many in the corp. I'm sure people are having a blast when they get alpha'd on undock or at the corporation insta-undock locations, which mysteriously some of the undock campers happen to have. Because all of that is clearly more fun than at least trying to actually kill Crows and Caracals before they get to establish themselves and in the process save haulers and freighters from having half a heart attack whenever they try to get into the system. Voyager I posted:Well with TEST greatly diminished the forces of Elite PvP need a new source of warm bodies to stuff into subcaps. Given that the rest of HERO is Nexus (literally the third N in N3), Spaceship Samurai (N3 affiliated), and TEST, it's not much of a stretch to imagine what the long-term goals of the people behind that coalition might be. The fact that you are probably quite right doesn't make it better. 
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Mar 12, 2014 16:17
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Cannibalize BNI newbies from a horrible experience in BNI nullsec? 
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Mar 12, 2014 16:19
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Otacon posted:I'm sorry for linking funny poo poo I find on Reddit, but this is kinda important and might be relevant here: Having your player base killing itself isn't good for business... On a more serious note, its actually nice that CCP take this seriously. It doesn't harm anyone to at least go check out if the guy was serious or not and it can hopefully show that someone somewhere care for your well being.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:21
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Pretty ironic considering how focused upon TEST the past page(s?) have been. Its not so much focus as it is people watching a scene. Its pretty much the EVE version of a massive structure fire at a terrible company that everyone came out in their lawn chairs to watch.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:26
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8====D
MickeyFinn fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 16:30
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MickeyFinn posted:I assume you asked for pictures. Is it as good as he says it is? Sorry, if I leak any more illum dickchat digi will get me
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Mar 12, 2014 16:32
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Blawrf posted:Sorry, if I leak any more illum dickchat digi will get me Worth the risk imo.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:42
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Hollow Talk posted:Who are we kidding, though? BNI cannot even manage to provide basic stuff to its "newbies". Things I still cannot buy: Maulus. Imicus. Tristan. Merlin. Condor. Kestrel. Griffin. Atrons for less than 2m. And the list goes on. How exactly they are supposed to "lead" anything, let alone an alliance, is beyond me. It's easy enough to get fleets together if you have 600 people online at any given moment, but all the actual organisation apart from that simply doesn't work. Why aren't there BNI camps on the gates going into Sendaya, thus making the system as a whole safer. Why is the market empty? Why are there no defence fleets up half the day? Why is the market still empty? Why is there no SRP? Why is ~opsec~ used as an excuse in order to never explain anything whatsoever to people? If BNI is indeed leading this alliance, then that suggests that things will stay the way they are, and things right now are utterly deficient. If you think BNI are unorganised try joining a TEST fleet  I don't think the market is as bad as you make out, I've been able to buy everything you mentioned except a Tristan. I think it's more a planning failure to get industry set up and running to pump out frigs, everything else is available with a bit of markup over Jita. I haven't had trouble buying anything in station apart from skillbooks. I do think most of the market seeding is purely from people wanting to make a profit rather than any alliance effort though. I'm with you on the defence fleets and gate camps though, people like Minas followed us all the way from Barl just because it's so easy for him to pad his killboard considering we'll do nothing to stop him or anyone else sitting on undock and killing literally hundreds of people. Suggest this and you'll get excuses that they are good "Teachers" or that it's just not fun. We do actually have SRP usually but it's only around 25% of hull which, if you lose a Thorax, is not worth the time of writing up an SRP request. I hate the OPSEC excuse and it backfired horribly yesterday with nobody knowing those Dreads were in trouble before they started showing up as killmails. I'm still having mixed feelings about the deployment and being partnered up with TEST, but I'm still enjoying it and learning a ton of new stuff atleast.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:51
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Blawrf posted:Sorry, if I leak any more illum dickchat digi will get me It is my one hope that one day some mod is going to make Illum available for us all to read just so we can see how ridiculous you all are. I mean the home defense thread was a loving hanzo steel filled riot.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:04
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ApocalypseMeow posted:I don't think the market is as bad as you make out, I've been able to buy everything you mentioned except a Tristan. I think it's more a planning failure to get industry set up and running to pump out frigs, everything else is available with a bit of markup over Jita. I haven't had trouble buying anything in station apart from skillbooks. I do think most of the market seeding is purely from people wanting to make a profit rather than any alliance effort though. Some of this (as so many things, I get the feeling) might have to do with timezones. I see the same when  The only thing I have been able to buy a few days ago was a 5-pack of fitted Atrons for 5.8m, which was a fair price, but those offers seem rare at best.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:06
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TEST is a mess. We all know that. They've never not been a mess though, it's just that when they were much smaller the unbridled autism was more easily contained, and pre-Fountain they didn't have a sense of entitlement. I think the thing that kinda gets to me about the general goonhate for TEST (which was there all the way back to the Testagram days amongst some goons) is that nowadays a lot of it stems from their (admittedly terrible) forum sperge and general ~edginess~. Back when TEST was young and impressionable they learned the whole "lol get mad about words on the internet" schtick from goons, reinforced by the various broski iterations (SHURK in particular). Not saying that that's a good thing, I don't like offensive language, and I don't really use it myself, but it's all around in my zulu and alliance forums and chats. Something something serenity change accept something something; being able to tell the difference. And yeah, I'm oldschool Dreddit/TEST, but left with NORKdot when Montolio stepped down and wound up in PL. Always really liked GSF a lot though, just really don't like the whole concept of the CFC.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:27
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Question, I am thinking about joining groon cause my friends keep flopping poo poo. The way I make my isk is market and reactions. I have my own corp with just me in it should I only move my Yarr char over to groon or can I drop my own towers in groon? Be cool If my JF apt would be blue at least.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:32
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Rhymenoserous posted:It is my one hope that one day some mod is going to make Illum available for us all to read just so we can see how ridiculous you all are. I mean the home defense thread was a loving hanzo steel filled riot. What home defense thread?
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Mar 12, 2014 17:34
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^^: I think its gone now but, it had some director admitting to having hanzo steel katanas for self/home defense.darthzeta88 posted:Question, I am thinking about joining groon cause my friends keep flopping poo poo. The way I make my isk is market and reactions. I have my own corp with just me in it should I only move my Yarr char over to groon or can I drop my own towers in groon? Be cool If my JF apt would be blue at least. What is a "Yarr char?"
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Mar 12, 2014 17:36
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Isn't Sendaya a kickout station? Assuming that is true, no wonder you have a crappy market -- jumping a JF to that system is suicide.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:36
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uwaeve posted:What home defense thread? Mittens posted a thread about home defense in the Illum forums as he was getting a bit of real life heat for being such an internet space monster. Suddenly directors are piping in with everything from basic firearms advice, to unironic "I defend my house with the katana I keep next to my bed" posts. This thread was eventually leaked to SpaceGBS. I have no clue if it's still available for public viewing.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:37
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darthzeta88 posted:Question, I am thinking about joining groon cause my friends keep flopping poo poo. The way I make my isk is market and reactions. I have my own corp with just me in it should I only move my Yarr char over to groon or can I drop my own towers in groon? Be cool If my JF apt would be blue at least. GROON have a dozen alt corps within Clockwork Pineapple for goons who want to drop towers - LUE being the most notable.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:38
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pugnax posted:I think the thing that kinda gets to me about the general goonhate for TEST (which was there all the way back to the Testagram days amongst some goons) is that nowadays a lot of it stems from their (admittedly terrible) forum sperge and general ~edginess~. Back when TEST was young and impressionable they learned the whole "lol get mad about words on the internet" schtick from goons, reinforced by the various broski iterations (SHURK in particular). Not saying that that's a good thing, I don't like offensive language, and I don't really use it myself, but it's all around in my zulu and alliance forums and chats. Something something serenity change accept something something; being able to tell the difference. There's a reason that TEST is constantly referred to as a GSF cargo cult. They may have tried to emulate the posting culture, but they never learned it. It's the same problem you find with their alliance almost everywhere. They emulate the result of something without understanding that there's a reason and process behind it. That's why the posting gets so much hate - it's (metaphorically) like you're reciting punch lines without reading the joke first. Plus, as a generalized rule reddit has no concept of moderation (i.e. self control) and so not only do you get stupid unfunny poo poo, you get a lot of the same stupid unfunny poo poo. And that's not even touching on the sheer number of shitlords who use 'irony' as a smokescreen for being a truly detestable person.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:48
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pugnax posted:Back when TEST was young and impressionable they learned the whole "lol get mad about words on the internet" schtick from goons TEST is a cargo cult. They jumped on all the lovely parts of "goon culture" but didn't balance it with a core group of people who hold the rest of the shitlords together and make it possible for them to just play spaceships without having to worry about things like stocking markets, logistics, SRP, diplomats, leading fleets, etc. There were people within TEST willing to do all those things but the general memberships treated them like crap until they were run out of the alliance. If TEST had fled to lowsec and actually worked on fixing those issues they might have made a successful comeback at some point but based on what's currently going on it looks like those problems have actually gotten worse and now people in charge are getting super defensive about getting called on it.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:50
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Rhymenoserous posted:Mittens posted a thread about home defense in the Illum forums as he was getting a bit of real life heat for being such an internet space monster. Suddenly directors are piping in with everything from basic firearms advice, to unironic "I defend my house with the katana I keep next to my bed" posts. OK, I misread it as something :skink:-related. e: smg77 posted:If TEST had fled to lowsec and actually worked on fixing those issues they might have made a successful comeback at some point but based on what's currently going on it looks like those problems have actually gotten worse and now people in charge are getting super defensive about getting called on it. This sort of seems like it's going to be TEST's Smell the Glove tour. uwaeve fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 17:50
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Glory of Arioch posted:Isn't Sendaya a kickout station? Assuming that is true, no wonder you have a crappy market -- jumping a JF to that system is suicide. Sendaya is indeed a kickout. What better place to stage a giant horde of newbies?
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Mar 12, 2014 17:57
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kalstrams posted:By "custom" you mean the predefined bunch or era of space genitals has really begun? Well if you want to be cynical about it.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:58
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rocket_Magnet posted:CCP take suicide threats very seriously as there are plenty of mentally unstable people who play this game (arent we all That was me, (courthouse). The guy posted his bandaged arms from cutting himself after a scam that myself, Kaleb Rysode and Blawrf pulled off on him. He didn't carve any names into himself, but he occasionally pops up and starts whining at people like John Smedley and Hilmar about how badly we treated him, and how it led him to self harm. (As in, like, 2 months ago. The scam happened maybe 2 years ago.) If someone wants to look up the scam it was called Mt. Sociopath or some such terrible title in the scam forum. It was something like 60b worth in the final accounting. koreban fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:01
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koreban posted:That was me, (courthouse). The guy posted his bandaged arms from cutting himself after a scam that myself, Kaleb Rysode and Blawrf pulled off on him. He didn't carve any names into himself, but he occasionally pops up and starts whining at people like John Smedley and Hilmar about how badly we treated him, and how it led him to self harm. (As in, like, 2 months ago. The scam happened maybe 2 years ago.) 
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Mar 12, 2014 18:07
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pugnax posted:And yeah, I'm oldschool Dreddit/TEST, [...] Always really liked GSF a lot though I'm right there with ya, man. I'm one of the oldest characters still left in Dreddit, and it sucks that all the people that I learned the game with and had fun with for several years and the people that are now in my corp/alliance are completely at odds with each other both politically and behaviorally. And it is a real tragedy, as you explained. During our first week the intention was to be a friendly, respectful, mature EVE corp, and one of the first characters to be kicked from Dreddit was Furkle--and for a rude behavior which is par-for-the-course for most members these days. The drift towards more and more rotten behavior came in two waves--the first was when we hooked up with [LODRA] and Dreddit became imitators of the older, cruder goon behavior of the time. The second wave was towards the end of that year, and was a combination of the current 4chan corps joining TEST and the fact that the reddit site itself had undergone a massive shift in its userbase at the time due to a surge in popularity. Later, GSF successfully cleaned up its act, which greatly furthered the behavioral divide between the two. The only reason I stick it out with Dreddit even though it's nearly intolerable is because it is my EVE history, and the only other group I would even play this game with is you guys, and it's doubtful that could ever happen. And with spring starting to roll around, I am really starting to miss Sigma gardenchat.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:08
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Give it a shot. Vyst seems to have a soft spot for people who were once bros with us and just happened to stick out a ride on the wrong boat. You post alright and I wouldn't fault you for not ditching your old community.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:16
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pugnax posted:I think the thing that kinda gets to me about the general goonhate for TEST (which was there all the way back to the Testagram days amongst some goons) is that nowadays a lot of it stems from their (admittedly terrible) forum sperge and general ~edginess~. Back when TEST was young and impressionable they learned the whole "lol get mad about words on the internet" schtick from goons, reinforced by the various broski iterations (SHURK in particular). I can't comment on TEST's posting or comms behavior (although if goons find something offensively terrible, it's probably pretty bad), but the quality of their leadership is plainly visible and has always been terrible. This is usually indicative of serious internal cultural problems, and is almost always self-reinforcing. It's this bad leadership and awful decision-making that is driving the 'hate'-- really more like pity-- for TEST, not necessarily the attitude or behavior of the average line member (although there is an obvious connection). Goonfleet frequently had terrible directors or FCs, and always had plenty of awful line members, but the good ones were generally highly valued and the bad ones eventually run out (regardless of the consequences, lol Karttoon), where the opposite seems true in TEST. As bitter and catty as goons can be, instead of succumbing to blaming, petty infighting, stealing everything not nailed down, and all of the other destructive behavior that can be seen in every incarnation of TEST, cooler heads almost always seem to have prevailed and made things work. mikey fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:20
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The greatest thing about test is that it spawned the cultural revolution thread on gf.com, which is potentally one of the greatest honeypot threads I've ever seen. I'm not ashamed to admit that I've read through that thread like three times and still laugh. I can't think of any other redeemable qualities at this point, but I have to thank them for giving us that pot of gold.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:25
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Currently on my phone, anyone have links to the cultural revolution and/or home defense threads handy?
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Mar 12, 2014 18:27
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Glory of Arioch posted:Isn't Sendaya a kickout station? Assuming that is true, no wonder you have a crappy market -- jumping a JF to that system is suicide. Of all the terrible decisions that went into this HERO coalition and the subsequent deployment, this is the most mind-boggling, as it makes logistics extremely difficult. I haven't looked at the immediate area on dotlan, but I'm guessing there are plenty of far superior systems within 3 jumps that have all services, multiple non-kickout stations and at least one spare office slot (this is a single-corp alliance we're talking about here). An alliance as large as BNI doesn't even really need to care about local hostile activity, as they'll be able to handle it, and will attract plenty of attention anyway.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:30
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pugnax posted:Back when TEST was young and impressionable they learned the whole "lol get mad about words on the internet" schtick from goons This is why describing TEST as a Goonswarm cargo-cult is quite literally the most accurate description of an alliance in Eve. Same actions, no idea why they're doing them, such that they're doomed to misuse them and achieve the opposite effect. fake edit: reloaded and saw I've been beaten on this. Instead I will use a pertinent example: Goonswarm back in the day: "We're so bad, if you're losing to us, how bad do you need to be?" - used to mock ~elite PVP~ to amazing effect. TEST: "We're so bad, [insert cargo cult misunderstanding] if you dare try to be anything other than incompetent we'll troll the poo poo out of you so you stop trying" - used to mock anyone in TEST trying to actually, you know, do something. You can see it in one of those DHD videos, where he tells everyone to turn their MWD to take the jumpbridge so "dipshit logi will want to kill themselves" - what happened in Fountain? The logi guys took everything not nailed down and left. koreban posted:That was me, (courthouse). The guy posted his bandaged arms from cutting himself after a scam that myself, Kaleb Rysode and Blawrf pulled off on him. He didn't carve any names into himself, but he occasionally pops up and starts whining at people like John Smedley and Hilmar about how badly we treated him, and how it led him to self harm. (As in, like, 2 months ago. The scam happened maybe 2 years ago.) He's still at it. A couple of weeks ago he was spamming twitter with pictures of him in hospital (as in, look at my open wounds guys) and telling CCP / other people it was all the goons that did it.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:33
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pugnax posted:TEST is a mess. We all know that. They've never not been a mess though, it's just that when they were much smaller the unbridled autism was more easily contained, and pre-Fountain they didn't have a sense of entitlement. I despise Montolio and Rob3r; they sheltered under our aegis while plotting to destroy us, and in true passive-aggressive fedora-tipping fashion they only just now admitted this truth in public, having spent years blathering their 'we just want to be friends, but but FA shot first!' hypocritical piffle. They deserve every morsel of contempt we can muster, because they betrayed our friendship. TEST without Montolio and Rob3r immediately drops off GSF radar - but we know who our enemies are, and we don't forget. It has nothing to do with grand theories of "they learned from goons to be edgy lol" or whatever you wrote above is supposed to mean. Black Legion is edgier than TEST on any day ending in y and there's no ~goonhate~ directed at them. tldr: false friends, once revealed, make for the kind of enemies who you never can extract enough suffering from.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:37
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Khablam posted:Goonswarm back in the day: "We're so bad, if you're losing to us, how bad do you need to be?" - used to mock ~elite PVP~ to amazing effect. I like this one. TEST: "We don't care what anyone says about us. Holy poo poo TMC wrote an article? Quick guys go spam and complain about it!"
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Mar 12, 2014 18:38
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mikey posted:I can't comment on TEST's posting or comms behavior (although if goons find something offensively terrible, it's probably pretty bad), but the quality of their leadership is plainly visible and has always been terrible. This is usually indicative of serious internal cultural problems, and is almost always self-reinforcing. It's this bad leadership and awful decision-making that is driving the 'hate'-- really more like pity-- for TEST, not necessarily the attitude or behavior of the average line member (although there is an obvious connection). See, I think I need to quasi-disagree on this. Is there a single other sizeable/space-important entity in Eve outside of GSF that has had particularly good leadership? I'm hard pressed to think of one. Maybe PL in it's own way, but that involves not having a hard leadership structure, so I don't think it counts. Montolio was great at doing what he did (namely building a wack-rear end, albeit large and strong, coalition) and keeping the line members occupied and entertained. But then he got married, and I think it moved his timeline up a bit, and he tried to start The Greatest War before PL was done securing the Dronelands. His 'madness' and the subsequent destructive behavior (like mass theft) was pretty much totally the result of very well executed goony manipulation. Anyway, I guess my point is that TEST has always been a bit of a formless blob, and is very susceptible to outside influence, for better or for worse. I have hope that HERO will help usher in some form of cultural revolution, and that the BNI influence will be good. I've posted about it on the TEST boards before, but I'd really like to see TEST disband and reform as a slightly more srsbsns, less noob-friendly alliance. Something in between BNI and Sniggwaffe. 
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Mar 12, 2014 18:50
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pugnax posted:I've posted about it on the TEST boards before, but I'd really like to see TEST disband and reform as a slightly more srsbsns, less noob-friendly alliance. Something in between BNI and Sniggwaffe. "I'd like test to reform into even bigger shitlords who treat new players with the same disdain as basically every other alliance in the game"
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Mar 12, 2014 18:55
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deadtear posted:"I'd like test to reform into even bigger shitlords who treat new players with the same disdain as basically every other alliance in the game" Actually, no, I'd like TEST to reform into a smaller, more focused, migrant entity with a focus on having fun and developing pilots. Nothing about disdain, and the reddit community already has two alternative groups for day one newbies. Basically every other non-CFC alliance in the game doesn't have endless prime ratting space, lots of bankroll for free ships for new players, a hugely detailed wiki and community, or any of the other things that make GSF/CFC unique. C'mon man.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:04
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Khablam posted:TEST: "We're so bad, [insert cargo cult misunderstanding] if you dare try to be anything other than incompetent we'll troll the poo poo out of you so you stop trying" - used to mock anyone in TEST trying to actually, you know, do something. We used to have some people like this in leadership in groon. Getting rid of them was possibly one of the best things we ever did for the corp/alliance.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:10
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figured out how to make EVE a lot better
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Mar 12, 2014 19:22
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I won't comment on Montolio beyond that literally everyone in Eve outside of TEST has a very, very different view of him. There's either some pretty serious stockholm syndrome going on, or TEST's leadership actually aligns with its culture and the latter is that fundamentally broken. As for re-forming with a de-emphasis on newbies, unless you're an ~elite-pvp~ alliance with a long history of success (or what passes for success in Eve nullsec wars) like PL, newbies are the lifeblood of your alliance. Eve grinds people down and burns them out, and you need a constant influx of new players to balance that out, even if you've settled into a long cycle where old vets periodically return after years-- a stage that TEST has not yet reached, in part because all of TEST's worthwhile 'old vets' have been poached by the more well-run alliances in the game. Again, this boils down to a cultural problem, because GSF experienced comparatively little of this even during its low points (badly losing the first stage of the Great War against titan camps, the Karttoon era, LODRA, etc). pugnax posted:Basically every other non-CFC alliance in the game doesn't have endless prime ratting space, lots of bankroll for free ships for new players, a hugely detailed wiki and community, or any of the other things that make GSF/CFC unique. C'mon man. These things are the result of a lot of effort by a lot of people over a long period of time; people who the entire alliance didn't poo poo all over, who weren't mocked for their competence at a terrible game, who had reason to put in that effort. You're just not seeing the connection between fostering a somewhat-positive community and the resultant success, and thinking GSF had everything handed to them on a silver platter. At the risk of sounding like a libertarian retard, Eve is a lot closer to a meritocracy than real life, even if only at the alliance level. You get out what you put in. e: I'm not ignoring that GSF was given Deklein for free; that certainly had a profound effect on the timeline of Goonswarm's recent ascent. However, countless other alliances have been given space or taken relatively undefended/failure-cascading space, and been unable to hold it or to do anything meaningful with it. That's where the work comes in. mikey fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 19:28
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