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Comrade Koba posted:Having had some experience with various DW forums and online discussions - no, they're really not. You're just fishing for the obvious joke here, aren't you?
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Mar 14, 2014 11:55
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Jedit posted:Except it's actually "Lord of the Rings was 1000 pages and was made into three movies; The Hobbit was 300 pages and therefore should have been made into one movie". I don't want to dredge up this argument, but there's no way The Hobbit could ever have fit into a single movie. It's written in such a way that far more happens in it than in any of the three LOTR volumes, but it's condensed down with very little dialogue and minimal description. You could probably edit LOTR down into 400 pages if you really wanted to, but it still makes a drat good trilogy. The problem with The Hobbit movies is largely in the visuals and tone, and even that's mostly fixed in the second one. It probably should have remained a two-parter, but they still would have been 3.5+ hours each. On topic: Yes ADWD was definitely a slower paced book, and would require far less screentime to show than ASOS did, but the idea of cramming both books into a single season is going slightly overboard. If they really do that, it's almost like they're rushing to overtake GRRM so they can write whatever they want. stev fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 13:04
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Who cares about Dr Who
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Mar 14, 2014 14:09
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Steve2911 posted:I don't want to dredge up this argument, but there's no way The Hobbit could ever have fit into a single movie. It's written in such a way that far more happens in it than in any of the three LOTR volumes, but it's condensed down with very little dialogue and minimal description. I would argue LOTR already feels pretty condensed at times, it'd be tough to make it 400 pages in my opinion.
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Mar 14, 2014 14:12
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I came here to read about game of thrones why is everyone talking about Dr. Who and LOTR?  So some of the previews have shown what basically looks like Mereen courtroom scenes which means we're getting book 5 content already. We're also getting a bit of Arya in Braavos too right, and some of Theon's book 5 stuff. If we're covering a lot of that ground now it doesn't seem unlikely at all that they can be done with most of feast and dance by the end of series 5.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:03
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Mainwaring posted:I came here to read about game of thrones why is everyone talking about Dr. Who and LOTR? We'll get "book 5 content" but I'm still not convinced it's not anything more than just episode 10 "oh yeah everything looks cool but your dragon ate a baby" type of stuff. In other words, we're only getting a short tease that things aren't perfect. e: Also any courtroom scenes I've seen have been Tyrion's trial.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:05
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Poor guy got piled on because he was making a point that Dr. Who's current writers aren't using the same voice as the original writers. I've never seen this show, I really don't give a crap if it shows a gay person every episode, but I can understand where he's coming from. When any story introduces a new theme into the other themes then the original fans of that series will start gradually rejecting the new story telling medium. It doesn't just mean gay people, it means any theme in general. Take, for instance, if GoT started making a major theme about animal conservation. Dany makes sure to chide Drogon for eating too many lions. Jamie stops Brienne from shooting a deer so they can forage for berries instead. Tywin forces Joffrey to pass a law that protects wild boars. Eventually viewers are gonna be like why the gently caress does this need to be mentioned in every episode? They don't have a problem with animals being protected, but it doesn't need to be mentioned every chance it gets. He has a much more real complaint about that screwdriver. Technical limitations of the 1980s probably prevented Dr. Who from becoming the fantasy sci fi it is today. It was more grounded in reality. When you lose that grounding, that is, if the series was originally grounded in reality, then the series takes on a new shape, a new flavor. Some people love it. It's obvious because I believe that show is doing exceptionally well. American Horror Story also went down this path, starting in a semi-believable haunted house setting, and ending up in the off the balls ridiculous campy Coven. It too was generally well received. The issue though is as you gain new fans and adapt your series over time, you lose the old viewers that liked it for its original product. They feel alienated.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:12
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computer parts posted:We'll get "book 5 content" but I'm still not convinced it's not anything more than just episode 10 "oh yeah everything looks cool but your dragon ate a baby" type of stuff. In other words, we're only getting a short tease that things aren't perfect. Sorry by courtroom I meant royal court, bad phrasing.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:33
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Friendly Factory posted:Estimations on the number of homosexual people range at ~10% of the population at the moment, "At the moment" being 30 year-old discredited Kinsey studies? Every single modern survey of homosexuality puts it well below 5%.
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Mar 14, 2014 15:45
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Irish Joe posted:"At the moment" being 30 year-old discredited Kinsey studies? Every single modern survey of homosexuality puts it well below 5%. Yeah, range is about 3-7%, depending on study.
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Mar 14, 2014 16:08
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Mainwaring posted:I came here to read about game of thrones why is everyone talking about Dr. Who and LOTR? I don't think we're necessarily getting Arya in Braavos this season. I think the shot we saw in the trailer is from Stannis visiting the Iron Bank (which has also been shown in a couple featurettes). Probably Arya's entire plotline in Braavos (that we've seen so far, anyways) would fit neatly into Season 5. Book 4/5 stuff that we'll be getting this season, as far as I can tell based on casting/revealed scenes: - A small bit of Dany's ADwD stuff (at least up to Drogon eating a kid, and at least Hizdhar being introduced) - A decent chunk of Bran's ADwD stuff (up to reaching Bloodraven, unless that's just in a dream) - A bit of Brienne and Pod on the road. - Theon going to Moat Cailin, Ramsey and Roose meeting. Seems like the KL and Eyrie stuff will be ending right about at the end of ASoS. I think that would leave a *lot* to get through in Season 5 if they were to try to finish up both Feast and Dance. Though it depends on how much of the Dorne/Iron Islands stuff is going to remain intact.
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Mar 14, 2014 16:33
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Episode 10 is probably the "people leaving" episode. - Sansa and Littlefinger leaving for the Eyrie - Tyrion sneaking out on a boat - Arya leaving for Bravos - Sam getting sent to Oldtown It could even have: - Jorah getting banished - Brianne and Pod taking off Although those two might happen a few episodes earlier.
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Mar 14, 2014 17:36
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Sansa will be at the Eyrie long before episode 10 if Joff dies at episode 2 like most of us expect. Episode 10 is likely 'Only cat'. Sam getting to old town requires Jon actually being voted Lord Commander before the season ends and it's been suggested that the battle of the wall and "Sannis! Stannis!" is at episode 9, Episode 10 might actually have Jon's arrest by Slynt and Alliser as a hook for next season.
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Mar 14, 2014 17:41
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Sansa will be at the Eyrie long before episode 10 if Joff dies at episode 2 like most of us expect. Episode 10 is likely 'Only cat'. I didn't know they had confirmed Lysa and Robin as cast members this season. If they did then you might be right. Sam leaving might be premature too. I forgot how much time the new lord commander politicking plotline takes up.
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Mar 14, 2014 17:43
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People who think ADwD sucked don't think it sucked because of the wait between books; we think it sucked because we think it sucked. In my opinion, it should've been hacked through with a chainsaw. There are loads of examples of weasel words and pointless descriptions that do nothing but slow the story down and waste paper. Then there is the addition of the phrases "Nuncle" and "Must Needs", which George himself admits that his editor kept trying to remove but he repeatedly added in. Then there's the Asha sex scene, which has the distinction of being one of the worst sex scenes I've ever read in a book. I was genuinely surprised when it wasn't nominated for a Bad Sex Award by the Literary Review, although perhaps they don't do genre fiction. George's purple prose has always been a problem but it was harder to ignore in the most recent book because of how badly plotted and paced it was. Quentyn Martell shouldn't have had been a POV character; Jaime shouldn't have been in the book; neither should Cersei for that matter; Areo Hotah should've been cut as well as Melisandre; Tyrion's plot was an exercise in futility; Bran should've actually done something and finally there's Jon. Jon's storyline is loving terrible. It starts off well, with Jon having to navigate between keeping the Watch neutral and not pissing off a dangerous man; then it devolves into absurdity. It starts with it suddenly being revealed that Ned told Jon not to make friends with people which exists solely as an excuse to have Jon be isolated when the Sudden Yet Inevitable Betrayal(tm) occurs. Then it continues with literally every plan Jon makes failing. Are you honestly telling me that the rangers, who have been North of the Wall like a gajillion times are all going to die simply because this time Jon asks them to go? That's ignoring the expedition to Hardhome, which again, really? Jon knows that the previous LC was murdered yet he takes no precautions against meeting the same fate. Then he chains up his loving wolf? Why not just write JON SNOW IS GOING TO DIE in giant 14pt letters George? And those are just some of my problems with the plotting. See the biggest issue with Jon and to a lesser extent Dany and Tyrion is that there is absolutely no sense of urgency to their stories. We don't care about their internal conflicts because those conflicts are ones which have already been addressed in earlier books. Jon has dealt with Duty vs Honour and Duty vs Family; when Jon suffers we don't care because 1) it was telegraphed almost from the beginning of the book and 2) because George introduced prophecy we know that suffering will not be permanent. In other words, Jon's storyline builds up to a twist that has absolutely no effect on the reader because we are given every reason not to give a gently caress. A lot of readers have excused this by saying, oh, ADwD is a work of art, it has themes. Basically every single book, play, tv show, movie, picture, painting and tattoo ever written, drawn or performed with finger puppets has themes. Twilight has themes, 50 Shades of Grey has themes, but that doesn't make the work good, especially when the text shits all over its own themes like ADwD does. There are other issues as well, especially with a lot of the new characters. Look at Joe Abercrombie, whenever he introduces a new character that character might be evil and douche-y, or awkwardly honourable but they're always interesting to read about. George on the other hand introduces a bunch of characters who are boring as all hell. Somehow George managed to make Tyrion suck. There's the lame-rear end introduction of Young Griff, he makes Dany pointlessly indecisive solely so that he can drag the plot out; bad writing, bad pacing, bad plotting, reinforcing of elements that serve only to rip apart the themes the book is built on, utterly boring characters and a story that manages the difficult task of being both horribly padded out and having nothing happen. And, once again, the Asha Greyjoy sex scene.
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Mar 14, 2014 18:00
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I dont agree with all that (I actually enjoyed Jon's arc), but yeah, it mostly does sucks. Pacing is terrible, Dany endless sequence of unbelievable stupid decisions is awful (god dammit, girl: every loving person in Westeros or the real world knows you cant get nowhere in Meeren, get on with your loving conquest of Westeros you've been obsessed with since ever), Tyrion starts interesting but by the end I was about to puke from so many boat time (please please GRRM, we had enough boat trips, stop that) and sick of his stupid love affair and I realized he wanst even going to meet Dany before the end of the book. The whole Quentin quest is boring and useless. The two last books are bad, in my opinion, because the pace is severely slowed and the plot branches away from the plots and characters we care about to new plots and characters that we (well, I) dont care, have no reason to care and that, ultimately, end mostly without delivering anything (Quentin, Brienne, the dorian plot for Mircella etc). And while those uninteresting plots are developing, the main plots are almost halted, mostly by making the characters travel slowly for hundreds of pages (Tyrion, Bran, Sam) or by making then undermine their progress by endless sequences of bad decisions (Dany, Jon) There are important facts, revelations and stuff, but the vast majority of those books is filler and boring filler.
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Mar 14, 2014 18:55
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To be fair, Daenerys has been obsessed with conquering Westeros for maybe a year or two. Until she started ingratiating herself with the Dothraki, taking back Westeros was more her brother's obsession than hers. She just wanted to live her life originally.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:09
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Episode 5's title: First of His Name Tommen's coronation yay. We better get his kittenguard.  GoT has been pretty clever with their episode titles, and they often have multiple meanings. I'm wondering if it'll refer to anyone else.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:13
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AStrangeDuelist posted:stuff I respect that you don't like the book but man you're off base. Jon's storyline was an attempt to balance the power of Stannis with his duties on the wall, while making sure that the wall was able to keep up with the Wildling refugees. He had to balance the old ways with the new, and that was the reason why he was betrayed. We knew it was coming, somewhat, but we also know that the end result was not the point of his story. What GRRM was doing with his arc was showing how well intentioned power can be ruinous if you lack the support to make the changes. It was also explained why he chained up Ghost. I agree with his sex scenes, those are usually uncomfortable at best. As for Nuncle and Must Needs, who cares? It's his universe. He says that Asha says Nuncle, so it sticks. Editors aren't always wise decision makers. As said before, the reason why Tyrion and Dany chapters were slow paced was because he was timing their chapters with the development of the Westeros story lines. If he outpaced one the other would look even worse. I think they only seemed slow and non-urgent because the Westeros chapters are fast paced, sort of. Brienne's meandering journey storyline was way slower than either of theirs. And finally, no one is praising him because he has themes. Everyone knows that every story has a theme, that's why they exist. They're praising GRRM because he's sticking to his themes while not becoming overly bloated, a risk that any author takes as his story develops, becomes popular, and increases in word count.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:16
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Dienes posted:Yeah, range is about 3-7%, depending on study. I read someplace on this forum somebody saying that it must be like 40-60% or something based on how many people he knows. Must live in West Hollywood or something.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:27
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The TV show will fix all the things wrong with the last two books I'm sure. The Tyrion boat ride will be much shorter and there will be some great Tyrion vs Jorah dialog. I don't think it's possible to have Tyrion be boring on the show. Hopefully they get rid of loving Penny though or at least make her less annoying/boring. I guess the point of her was to give Tyrion some perspective on what life is like for non-rich dwarves or something like that. Ok, fine. Do that, then kill Penny off immediately or just get that message across without making her stick around so long. Or better yet, just remove her from the script entirely. The Dany storyline isn't necessarily boring either as long as you speed it up a bit. A lot of cool, interesting poo poo really does happen to her, the problem is that it takes loving forever for it to happen and when something cool does happen there are 300 pages of pointless filler before the next cool thing happens. Tighten that poo poo up, remove the pointless filler, and I'm sure it will be fine, even *gasp* exciting. I know, "exciting" is the last word someone would use to describe the Danny storyline in ADWD, but honestly it really could be just that with the right editing and pace.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:44
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I forget, does Penny show up at Joffrey's wedding or was that another hilarious pig-riding dwarf?
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Mar 14, 2014 19:46
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AStrangeDuelist posted:...Jaime shouldn't have been in the book; neither should Cersei for that matter... Wait, what? Jaime in particular is pretty damned interesting, as is watching Cersei poo poo everything up. Why would you want to cut them?
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Mar 14, 2014 19:47
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Irish Joe posted:I forget, does Penny show up at Joffrey's wedding or was that another hilarious pig-riding dwarf? Penny was one of the dwarves at the wedding, and mentions this when she first meets Tyrion. I can't remember precisely who had her partner killed but he definitely came to a bad end and she's incredibly bitter about it.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:49
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Dallan Invictus posted:Penny was one of the dwarves at the wedding, and mentions this when she first meets Tyrion. I can't remember precisely who had her partner killed but he definitely came to a bad end and she's incredibly bitter about it. Oppo is killed, like a bunch of other dwarves, in the hunt for Tyrion.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:51
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Dallan Invictus posted:Penny was one of the dwarves at the wedding, and mentions this when she first meets Tyrion. I can't remember precisely who had her partner killed but he definitely came to a bad end and she's incredibly bitter about it. It was a mob of people who thought he was Tyrion. That's kinda way she hates him. I'm also really pissed that GRRM killed Crunch for no good reason. Him and Pretty Pig shoulda lived forever. Doltos fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 19:51
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And Tyrion encounters her in Essos because she attempts to kill him, I think.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:52
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Dallan Invictus posted:Penny was one of the dwarves at the wedding, and mentions this when she first meets Tyrion. I can't remember precisely who had her partner killed but he definitely came to a bad end and she's incredibly bitter about it. It was because it was her brother that she jousted with, and some idiots saw a Dwarf and killed him thinking it was Tyrion or they hoped Cersei wouldn't notice it wasn't Tyrion. She obviously knew it wasn't Tyrion and had the men killed. So Penny would be pretty pissed at Tyrion for getting someone she care about killed for no reason.
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Mar 14, 2014 19:57
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I guess it's hard to argue that a character should be killed off/totally removed from the TV show storyline if that character is still alive in the books, because you never know if they might do something important later on, but I think it's safe to say that Penny is one of these characters. Please for the love of god GURM, don't let Tyrion fall in love/marry her 
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Mar 14, 2014 20:03
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:I guess it's hard to argue that a character should be killed off/totally removed from the TV show storyline if that character is still alive in the books, because you never know if they might do something important later on, but I think it's safe to say that Penny is one of these characters. Please for the love of god GURM, don't let Tyrion fall in love/marry her Yeah it's pretty but the point of Tyrion's character is that he's as shallow as people are to him. All of his lovers have been prostitutes that like him back, true, but they're all also hot and young. Penny is the first real girl that he has to care about that isn't some bomb shell.Like that's why Tyrion is so unhappy and why it hurt him so much when he realized that his first wife wasn't a whore. Tyrion just wants someone who really just likes him for him so Penny represents that.
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Mar 14, 2014 20:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:it's been suggested that the battle of the wall and "Sannis! Stannis!" is at episode 9, Episode 10 might actually have Jon's arrest by Slynt and Alliser as a hook for next season.
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Mar 14, 2014 21:13
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CapnAndy posted:A rather amazing suggestion, given that Stannis doesn't arrive until after Jon's arrest. Yeah I didn't remember the order of events correctly. I guess "Stannis!" can be at episode 10 with Jon getting arrested at the end of 9. Regardless, Sam ain't going to Oldtown this season. Probably.
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Mar 14, 2014 21:21
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PittTheElder posted:Wait, what? Jaime in particular is pretty damned interesting, as is watching Cersei poo poo everything up. Why would you want to cut them? That was in AFFC, ADwD if I remember correctly had one chapter with Jaime where Brienne showed up and for the rest of it he was completely absent. Cersei making GBS threads everything up happened in AFFC, and while I admit I found her chapters interesting I feel like ADwD should've focused more on characters that hadn't had an entire book to themselves. Doltos posted:I respect that you don't like the book but man you're off base. Gonna answer this in pieces. I get all that you've said, but I disagree that he was betrayed because he was trying to balance the old ways with the new. He was betrayed because George had him stick his head in the sand. George had him stick his head in the sand so that he could have his lameass plot twist. George had his lameass plot twist so that he could fulfill his equally lameass prophecy. I can deal with him saying that changing an institution is difficult; my problem is that I don't find the way he chose to show this believable. I don't think it works given what we know about the characters, the world and the history. Not to mention that as I've already said, we feel absolutely nothing as readers when the betrayal happens because it was so blatantly choreographed. And I get that it was explained why he chained up ghost. It was also explained why he made a list of which characters were plotting against him and did nothing. Explanation doesn't make something good. Furthermore, purely from a writing perspective, it would've made much more sense if he'd had Jon fail and Dany succeed or visa versa. We don't need to be told the same thing a billion times over a thousand pages; especially all it amounts to is an insanely boring slog. quote:I agree with his sex scenes, those are usually uncomfortable at best. This I don't get. It is his story, he has the right to write it, I have the right to say it sucks. And yes, editors aren't always right, but in my view his editor was right about this one. quote:As said before, the reason why Tyrion and Dany chapters were slow paced was because he was timing their chapters with the development of the Westeros story lines. If he outpaced one the other would look even worse. I think they only seemed slow and non-urgent because the Westeros chapters are fast paced, sort of. Brienne's meandering journey storyline was way slower than either of theirs. This is just blatantly untrue. You don't need a thousand pages of fluff in order for the reader to think that things are happening at a similar time. You just write a shorter book. quote:And finally, no one is praising him because he has themes. Everyone knows that every story has a theme, that's why they exist. They're praising GRRM because he's sticking to his themes while not becoming overly bloated, a risk that any author takes as his story develops, becomes popular, and increases in word count. Gonna have to disagree with you here, he's making GBS threads on his themes, he is definitely becoming overly bloated. And I wasn't talking about this thread or board specifically, my statement on the themes was mainly directed at things I've read on asoiaf.westeros.org AStrangeDuelist fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 21:24
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Well that's fair. In my head I roll them together into one book.
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Mar 14, 2014 21:36
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Have you read the two books together in chronological order? I know it's been said many times in this thread but it really does fix pretty much all of the pacing and bloat issues. It won't fix your problem with Jon's storyline, or the fact that the climaxes the books were leading to are missing, but it feels like a shorter book and is a quicker read, while remaining the same length.
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Mar 14, 2014 22:17
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This is fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2p9dRl0yYo I hadn't heard that they had to write in a full 93 minutes of scenes for Season 1, after a bunch of the filming was done, that's pretty crazy.
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Mar 14, 2014 22:35
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I can't find it now, but the episode guide said that "Jammie sends Brienne off on a task" in like episode 3 or so. As she takes Pod with her, Tyrion will already have to be imprisoned. So Purple wedding will have to happen pretty drat early. Thankyou. Pretty much everything you said.  Steve2911 posted:I don't want to dredge up this argument, but there's no way The Hobbit could ever have fit into a single movie. It's written in such a way that far more happens in it than in any of the three LOTR volumes, but it's condensed down with very little dialogue and minimal description. The first page of the hobbit describes the big round door and it's shiny brass knob. :P
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Mar 14, 2014 23:42
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:Dany going insane and becoming a force for evil could happen ("burn them, burn them all" right before Jorah/Darrio stabs her in the back). Also Melisandre and her whole religion being some secret front for an evil power could also happen. For the longest time I was convinced Melisandre was full of poo poo and her whole religion angle was just cover to explain why she has magic powers, and in reality she wasn't even human. Maybe like a demon invader (perhaps even the true controller of the White Walkers) or something like that. I mean she sure did a lot to sow chaos in the 7 kingdoms thus softening them up for a white walker invasion. I'd love to see Dany go insane and I'd love to see Jorah make it to the end of the series in one piece. Dany's whole 'thing' seems to be wrath. Dance with Dragons showed she's a pretty awful ruler but she's loving fantastic at bringing her dragons down and just burning her enemies to ash. It's a bit more pronounced in the show and in the latest trailer where she's all 'I will answer injustice with justice'. If I were a betting man I'd guess she's going to return to Mereen and go all fire and blood crazy Targaryen on the Yunkai, then load her armies up on ships and go to Volantis, freeing the slaves in a tidal wave of blood and destruction and  I think Melisandre is being manipulated and I read a fantastic theory on it. I'll try and find it again but the jist of it was that the whole Lord of Light religion is pretty much bullshit, as expected. The core of the theory concerns of the title of the series itself: A Song of Ice and Fire. Everyone speculates that the dragons will combat the White Walkers but a song comprises musical notes working together to create a greater whole, not working against each other. The 'song' of ice and fire wouldn't see ice and fire pitted against one another but instead combined together to create something more, the end of the human race. We've already seen that magic fades as creatures like dragons die out, and other magical species such as the Children of the Forest have moved behind the wall and away from human lands. The theory postulates that certain parties wish to see ice and fire harnessed against the human race to reclaim the world for the magical and supernatural. It would seem strange that the children of the forest would raise a wall against the white walkers then choose to live on the dangerous side. It seems more likely that they raised the wall to defend themselves and the white walkers from the humans that are slowly destroying their way of life. The theory also speculates that the ring leader for all this is Bloodraven. The red priests share physical similarities with Bloodraven (pale white skin etc). Bran has also displayed the ability to warg and communicate via a tree (part of nature and thus warg-able), so it is speculated that, as a more powerful warg, Bloodraven has been communicating with red priests and other individuals via their fires (also a part of nature and warg-able) and has been posing as the Lord of Light to manipulate them. Since they believe Bloodraven is a god and they've gotten a decent look at him via their flames they've tried to match their own appearances to his, hence the physical similarities. I really like this theory, apologies if it's been discussed to death already. EDIT: Apparently it's called the Ragnarok theory and you can read it here: http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html Sir Hamish fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 15, 2014 |
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Mar 15, 2014 00:05
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The issue with that is that as far as I remember, only Melisandre is described as having pale skin. Moqorro is called the "Dark Flame" and is incredibly dark skinned, and I got the impression that many of the actual priests in Essos were darker skinned as well. Edit: And Melisandre sees Bran & Bloodraven in her flames and calls them servants of the "Great Other" so that also doesn't really make sense.
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Mar 15, 2014 00:16
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The high priest Benerro is described as having incredibly pale skin, just like Bloodraven. It's feasible Melisandre hasn't seen Bloodraven directly in her flames and has just been shown visions. She might not recognise Bran and Bloodraven when she sees them. I don't recall her chapters a lot but I'm sure they established that she didn't really know all that much.
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Mar 15, 2014 00:28
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