|
quote:Third Question: Some of the more revealing art for Exalted (Especially from the Abyssal book) has also brought up some discussion in our group. We have actually a number of folks who are really big on discussing the portrayal of women in the hobby. Im sort of aware of the reasons behind the art choices with Exalted from lurking on other threads here in RPG.net. I am just curious if we can expect more of the same or a change in direction w/ 3e. hatewheel posted:The art will quite often be sexually charged, sometimes rather graphic. This is necessary to convey the setting. Creation is an exotic world with different mores and sexual ideas than our world. Much of Creation hasn't even invented the idea "homosexual" because there isn't a default sexuality; such a terminology is a prelude to discrimination. Men often sleep with men, women often sleep with women, and persons are not scared of the naked body. Often this sexuality is part and parcel with projections of divinity and power.
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:23 |
|
|
I'm far more annoyed at the 'she has a reason' defense than the actual art, yeah (though I'm not a big fan of the art, either - at least the artist is good at expression work). Though I'm most annoyed of all that the first nearly-nude character is her, instead of a lissome swordsman who is clearly just Tom Hiddleston* in a cock-sock. Start subverting expectations, guys, and also start giving me sexy dudes to look at. *Other options, to show the developers I'm not unreasonable: Idris Elba, that dude who played Magneto in First Class, Hugh Jackman, Roman Reigns.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2014 22:52
|
|
|
Could someone point her tattoo out to me in the art? Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2014 23:36
|
|
|
Here is Stovetop posted:Could someone point her tattoo out to me in the art? Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2014 23:49
|
|
|
Ignoring the whole cheesecake angle, I kind of wish they weren't doing comics again period because the ones in 2E were almost uniformly awful. I'd rather have just about anything else, up to and including blank pages.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
Hey guys, how many of you have noticed what's actually going on in the picture? Instead of focusing on her breasts, how many of you have counted the number of arms visible? I'd say Holden is right, and this isn't about cheesecake.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Ignoring the whole cheesecake angle, I kind of wish they weren't doing comics again period because the ones in 2E were almost uniformly awful. I'd rather have just about anything else, up to and including blank pages. The books have fiction. This comic is a stretch goal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I actually really like the drawing for the Lunar's expression, it's a really good "Oh, WHAT" face. The defense Holden raises is really dumb because, actually, what couldn't you excuse with "well her tattoos need to be visible" (and what, we can't have robed lunars now?) but it's not like Exalted isn't allowed to have characters in skimpy clothing. You don't have to make lame excuses, that's just her deal. Er...there's more reasons than tattoos. Look a little closer. More specifically, her extra arms. Hard to see, but yeah, there are extra arms growing out of her midriff. I don't think they make shirts that reshape around new arms. Not anyone in the Second Age, at least. (Holden could have said "She has extra arms and doesn't want to ruin a good shirt if she needs to grow them," though. That was just smug.) EDIT: Ninja'd.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:22
|
|
|
Vadoc posted:Hey guys, how many of you have noticed what's actually going on in the picture? Instead of focusing on her breasts, how many of you have counted the number of arms visible? I'd say Holden is right, and this isn't about cheesecake. All of us noticed the six arms, dude. It's not our fault that Holden is well on his way to completing his Female Armor Rhetoric Bingo card.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
Erebro posted:
In your face! Though truth be told I hadn't noticed at first either and was going to make a smart rear end comment about the fanbase wanting Exalted women wearing Burkhas in 3e because they showed too much skin in 2e.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:25
|
|
|
Erebro posted:Er...there's more reasons than tattoos. You do understand that this is a fictional character, whose every aspect is deliberately constructed by an artist, yes? And there is an article of clothing that could reform around extra arms - a robe.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:25
|
|
|
A_Raving_Loon posted:You do understand that this is a fictional character, whose every aspect is deliberately constructed by an artist, yes? Robes typically still have arm holes for 2, and not so great at jumping around.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:26
|
|
|
Erebro posted:Er...there's more reasons than tattoos. Dude, stop. I have no interest in commenting on this one way or the other, but if you want to defend it, you can't do so by making statements that can be countered by "It was the author's choice to include characters who have convenient in-character reasons for wearing exploitative outfits."
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:26
|
|
|
It really is how he handled the question. Anything else but his tangible smugness and contempt at us lowly fans and consumers for dare asking why Titanica the Six Armed Shiva of the Tank Top is baring her mid drift. He has access to writers and artists notes, story boards and previous sketches. Can't we just get it man? GAWD!
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:27
|
|
|
A_Raving_Loon posted:And there is an article of clothing that could reform around extra arms - a robe. And frankly designing her clothing specifically around her extra arms trick instead of putting her in a loincloth and bikini top would be cooler.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:Dude, stop. I have no interest in commenting on this one way or the other, but if you want to defend it, you can't do so by making statements that can be countered by "It was the author's choice to include characters who have convenient in-character reasons for wearing exploitative outfits." I wasn't saying that, I was saying there are more reasons than exposed tattoos. I agree with that counterargument.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Zereth posted:Or a poncho if she wants to be able to get them out quickly. I know, right? Have like, folds and layers that look like harmless decorative bits when she's people-shaped, then unfurl into some grand display when the fightform comes out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Erebro posted:I don't think they make shirts that reshape around new arms. Not anyone in the Second Age, at least. Certainly not the most powerful group of Celestial Exalts still in Creation, who are shapeshifters associated with a protean magical material. But the correct solution to having multiple arms is to have a girdle of human arms, really long hair, and a necklace of severed heads and skulls.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 00:42
|
|
|
I'm not even positive that clothing that shapeshifted with you costed as much as an Artifact dot. Maybe otherwise mundane armor that shapeshifted with you did? It's funny, though, to think of some Lunar warrior being all "Ugh, I wish I could wear something non-embarrassing, except that would interfere with the powers that stand between me and death by some other supernatural being's hands. This sucks."
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
I think 'many-faced Mail' as it was called in 2E was something like 2 extra Resources dots. For artifacts, only Moonsilver did it. 2 Extra Resource Dots could be a lot, honestly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
"Ugh, I wish I could put a shirt on, but I just don't have enough Resources dots" -Lunar Exalt
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 01:10
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:"Ugh, I wish I could put a shirt on, but I just don't have enough Resources dots" -Lunar Exalt "Ugh, I wish I could put a shirt on this character, but the fiction I make up just doesn't let me" -Every tabletop Art designer ever. RPG art is really dumb most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 01:41
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:"Ugh, I wish I could put a shirt on this character, but the fiction I make up just doesn't let me" -Every tabletop Art designer ever. "Look, I'm just as mad as you are about my depiction of women, but Gor has very specific rules. What am I supposed to do, change the thing that I have total control over because it's the right and proper thing?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 01:43
|
|
|
tatankatonk posted:"Look, I'm just as mad as you are about my depiction of women, but Gor has very specific rules. What am I supposed to do, change the thing that I have total control over because it's the right and proper thing?" Look man, there's no reason to quote TVTropes here, we have a thread for that in PYF
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 02:29
|
|
|
A_Raving_Loon posted:I know, right? Seriously you know what would be a great way to show a female fighter as a beautiful warrior with multi-arm growing powers? Give her some kinda altered robe or whatever that looks kinda frumpy and drab when she's normal and then when the extra arms comes out she gets like, butterfly looking sleeves revealed. Boom, she's doing a big 'bring beauty to the battlefield' thing and hey look her body parts are covered like an actual warrior would be, hire me White Wolf.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 02:49
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:Seriously you know what would be a great way to show a female fighter as a beautiful warrior with multi-arm growing powers? Give her some kinda altered robe or whatever that looks kinda frumpy and drab when she's normal and then when the extra arms comes out she gets like, butterfly looking sleeves revealed. Boom, she's doing a big 'bring beauty to the battlefield' thing and hey look her body parts are covered like an actual warrior would be, hire me White Wolf. I don't actually mind the half-naked girl at all in this picture. That there's at least some rationale for her wearing something like that is enough for me*, though something like the butterfly sleeves thing would be more interesting. It'd certainly be more memorable: weird clothing that does cool things as a response to having multiple arms is unique, while you can get cheesecake just about anywhere else in the industry. * Disclaimer: under the assumption that convenient excuses are not a thing for many female characters, and that women in general are either sensibly dressed or that there's equal-opportunity under-dressing. And given Exalted's legacy and some other art previews I can understand why anyone might question that assumption, but today's my birthday, I got a dream job and I just feel like extending some love and trust to the world right now. Lymond fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Mar 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 07:42
|
|
|
I don't really care that half-naked lady exists. Maybe I should, I don't know. But my point is that this is what was chosen to be shown. It's from the comic, yes? But it's one of the first pieces of art we've encountered since the sig characters were introduced. And granted, those sig characters were rad! I'm glad they were cool! But I feel like somebody said, "whelp, we've had an ounce of balanced presentation, wheel in the cheesecake" and perhaps that's unfair. I don't want to see an immediate return to bad habits. That's projecting on my part. I admit that. This doesn't have to be part of a wider pattern. But these art choices don't exist in a vacuum, somebody gets to choose what is presented to the community and in what order. All that aside... kinda cool, I guess? We've got a dude with a giant sword breaking a smaller sword of bandage-lady. I'm glad that the art is there, it just doesn't tell us very much.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 08:04
|
|
|
Mendrian posted:I don't really care that half-naked lady exists. Maybe I should, I don't know. But my point is that this is what was chosen to be shown. It's from the comic, yes? But it's one of the first pieces of art we've encountered since the sig characters were introduced. And granted, those sig characters were rad! I'm glad they were cool! But I feel like somebody said, "whelp, we've had an ounce of balanced presentation, wheel in the cheesecake" and perhaps that's unfair. There were other comics art examples in the update aside from that one -- some of them were coloured, even -- but that's the only one really being circulated. Causes a bit of sample bias of its own, I'd say.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 11:06
|
|
|
I want to care about the comic, but all's I can see is that none of that lady's nine arms or whatever is carrying a completed Exalted 3e corebook. She's really obviously dressing scantily to try and distract us from that fact.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 11:13
|
|
|
In defense of the artist here, its probably miles harder to draw extra limbs in extra clothing, a nine sleeved wooly jumper is probably a pain in the proverbial to make look metal and cool. I can see the thought process as "Man this is easier to draw if she's wearing nothing in that area and makes her additional arms more obvious"
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 13:13
|
|
|
If you read the KS update it mentions the characters being shown off were some of the Backer insert characters as well. I don't know if the Lunar woman was one of them, but if she was her art direction would have been up to her original player. That was actually an unfinished sketch, there's another completed picture of a bunch of clothed people (including sword-guy) around a fire talking about stuff. So if the objection is "what's being offered" that was just a little bit of cheesecake thrown in for dessert. You're kinda delusional if you think there's not going to be any scantily clad ladies in Ex3. I'd love more progressive design but I'll take silks and ribbons over say, 90% of the females drawn in the Lunar and Abyssal core books. Most of which just have bare breasts, (and most of those pierced.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
 Turned up in the post hot modrons thread a couple days ago I think. Felt like posting it here for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
HidaO-Win posted:In defense of the artist here, its probably miles harder to draw extra limbs in extra clothing, a nine sleeved wooly jumper is probably a pain in the proverbial to make look metal and cool. mistaya posted:You're kinda delusional if you think there's not going to be any scantily clad ladies in Ex3. I'd love more progressive design but I'll take silks and ribbons over say, 90% of the females drawn in the Lunar and Abyssal core books. Most of which just have bare breasts, (and most of those pierced.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
That'd be Ross Campbell, who we can thank for the designs of the Dragon Kings, the memorable appearance of Malfeas and the Lintha, and the existence of the djala (because he kept putting tiny panda-people into his art no matter what the art director said and someone finally decided to explain them).
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:he kept putting tiny panda-people into his art no matter what the art director said 
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
Zereth posted:Why did he keep getting work if he didn't do what he was being paid for? Oh, ignoring art direction is normal for artists. (Shout-out to Melissa Uran, who does great art on time and follows the directions.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
I like that he draws women of color and people who aren't Disney-variety beautiful. I just wish he would remember to put more than torn scraps of clothing on them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
mistaya posted:I like that he draws women of color and people who aren't Disney-variety beautiful. I just wish he would remember to put more than torn scraps of clothing on them. It's the trade-off with him, yeah. I really like Ross Campbell; I think the djala are great, I love his designs for the Dragon Kings, and he's the reason the Lintha are the only fantasy pirate culture I've ever really liked. And I love the way he draws people who aren't obviously caucasian. I think he's working comfortably in indie comics right now, though. (Why do all the letters have drop-shadows all of a sudden?)
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:(Why do all the letters have drop-shadows all of a sudden?) Thank gently caress someone else can see that, I thought my graphics card was dying on me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:23 |
|
|
One of the mods hosed up the forum font apparently.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2014 22:43
|
|