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Colonial Air Force posted:Don't forget the chrome accents! They charge a million dollars for multicolor position lights! Can you believe this?
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Mar 16, 2014 13:45
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Slate has a map showing the 634 airports where the plane could have landed (assuming that it didn't land on a highway or on an improvised runway).  Slate also floated the possibility a few days ago of the hijackers and/or whoever is receiving the plane intends to break it up and sell the parts on the black market. The problem, of course, is everything's got a serial number, but if money was the motive it would be a lot easier than selling an entire plane that you can't land anywhere useful.
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Mar 16, 2014 13:49
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Who would you sell 777 parts to on the black market? Anyone who would want those parts would probably be wealthy enough to get them legitimately. Although I wouldn't mind the whole cockpit/nosecone for my flight sim hobby.
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Mar 16, 2014 13:52
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benito posted:Slate has a map showing the 634 airports where the plane could have landed (assuming that it didn't land on a highway or on an improvised runway). Are those all airports that can accommodate a 777? Seems like a lot. Colonial Air Force posted:Who would you sell 777 parts to on the black market? Anyone who would want those parts would probably be wealthy enough to get them legitimately. Can afford and want to pay for are two different things. With the kind of record keeping that goes into plane maintenance, however, I'd be surprised to hear that was a viable option.
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Mar 16, 2014 13:57
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Here's the quote from the earlier article:quote:Sell it. There’s an active market for used 777s. “They’re worth big money,” says David Rose, who owns the plane-trading website Barnstormers.com. A 1994 model is currently for sale for $37.5 million; another from 2001 has a price tag of $54 million. Or you could play chop shop and break it up for parts. “There’s a big market for second-hand airliner parts,” says Rose. The only problem: All those parts have serial numbers on them, and pretty soon those are going to be the most famous serial numbers in the world. Then again, a cash-strapped operator in a developing country might not care.
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Mar 16, 2014 13:59
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benito posted:Slate has a map showing the 634 airports where the plane could have landed (assuming that it didn't land on a highway or on an improvised runway). That seems to be a lot of effort to chop up a plane, why not try to get an empty one? Why grab one that has passengers, seems more headache than it is worth.
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Mar 16, 2014 14:02
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Flikken posted:That seems to be a lot of effort to chop up a plane, why not try to get an empty one? Why grab one that has passengers, seems more headache than it is worth. You could ransom the prisoners or sell them in to slavery. Plus you get all that cargo.
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Mar 16, 2014 14:04
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Colonial Air Force posted:You could ransom the prisoners or sell them in to slavery. Plus you get all that cargo. That's a lot of healthy kidneys.  It's just hard to imagine what in the hell they're doing with the plane--the current information shows a very controlled diversion, which knocks out the suicide theory. If you land this thing in country A and try and use it later for a 9-11 style attack in country B, everybody's looking for this plane. If you try to land it anywhere in the civilized world, people are going to notice. I guess it could hop between military bases, but which country's military would steal a passenger aircraft? And what about fuel and maintenance? It really makes zero sense.
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Mar 16, 2014 14:10
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oh hai guys i'm new to this whole thread or whatever but i'm looking to do some really technical advanced theoretical particle/astrophysics on the plane data and try and see some parallels; where's the best place to get a timeline of the raw data we know about MH370 at this point, along with a timestamped/location stamped communication history, and each bit of data associated with said communication? i'm incredibly curious about the fact that the plane's possible path is in two locations; and I think there might be some crazy advanced physics and general relativity under it all (hence the super weirdness and complete lack of comprehension we have atm), along with wierd anomalous data (i've read stuff about it dropping 40k FT in 1 minute, which is weird.) but yeah the more data you post the more I can crunch - a curious physicist Mr SuperAwesome fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 14:26
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VikingSkull posted:You know, all this time and that's one of the original questions I wanted to ask. I love all types of aircraft, but I'm probably least familiar with the large fleet airliners. Military stuff we know is cool, and I gained appreciation for private planes and corporate light aircraft from when I worked in the refurbish shop I did for a few years. Being able to swap to another engine manufacturer easily is one of the features of the 787. I presume that means that earlier models were a lot more involved. Have this wikipedia quote. quote:The two different engine models compatible with the 787 use a standard electrical interface to allow an aircraft to be fitted with either Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 or General Electric GEnx engines. This aims to save time and cost when changing engine types; while previous aircraft can have engines changed to those of a different manufacturer, the high cost and time required makes it rare.[213][214] In 2006, Boeing addressed reports of an extended change period by stating that the 787 engine swap was intended to take 24 hours;[214] engine interchangeability makes the 787 a more flexible asset allowing airlines to change easily from one manufacturer's engine to the other on demand.[8]
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Mar 16, 2014 14:40
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:oh hai guys i'm new to this whole thread or whatever but i'm looking to do some really technical advanced theoretical particle/astrophysics on the plane data and try and see some parallels; where's the best place to get a timeline of the raw data we know about MH370 at this point, along with a timestamped/location stamped communication history, and each bit of data associated with said communication? There is no firm data, everything is hearsay filtered through the Malaysian government bullshit filter. What crazy physics do you think are involved? 
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Mar 16, 2014 14:52
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i think it's currently as of yet un-observed general-relativistic effects. The reason we haven't noticed them so far is purely a function of energy and evolution - humans wouldn't have had the collective capacity to understand it unless they'd had enough time + food and weede (all from the sun's energy) - which is just thermodynamics of information and time. The reason we're so confused is precisely because we lack the physics and scientific tools to understand it in the correct context. I don't have any evidence for this at all yet - just pure speculation and half a math paper - but soon i will have simulations on data and hopefully a clear insight with pretty graphs
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Mar 16, 2014 14:59
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:oh hai guys i'm new to this whole thread or whatever but i'm looking to do some really technical advanced theoretical particle/astrophysics on the plane data and try and see some parallels; where's the best place to get a timeline of the raw data we know about MH370 at this point, along with a timestamped/location stamped communication history, and each bit of data associated with said communication? I can only assume, but it's likely some combination of information gained from the polarisation and signal strength in relation to the planes position in the footprint of the satellite is the reason they feel like those two corridors are the likely location. I can't remember where I read 40 degrees but I believe that's the relative calculated elevation angle the plane must have had to the satellite, hence giving the kind of circular area in the footprint of the satellite it could have come from.
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Mar 16, 2014 14:59
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Vondizimo posted:There is no firm data, everything is hearsay filtered through the Malaysian government bullshit filter. What crazy physics do you think are involved? I think it's pretty clear the plane is in a state of quantum superposition, and by doing the calculations required to observe its location, it's bound to turn up there.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:04
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:i'm incredibly curious about the fact that the plane's possible path is in two locations; and I think there might be some crazy advanced physics and general relativity under it all The satellite in question does not know anything about exact location, only distance and a circle. Based just on distance, that's why there are two arcs. Here's the detailed math, nothing about the plane being in two places at once or anything: Understanding Satellite Pings It's really hard to pinpoint anything with a single satellite source. It's why GPS needs at least three satellites to accurately figure a position, and four is better. If we had at least three of these Inmarsats covering a similar area, eventually three of the arcs would line up and show the exact location.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:10
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Ola posted:I wonder what it's like to fill out the options form of an airliner fleet. Yeah, go with the RRs definitely...heated seats, captain's side sun shade mirror...gently caress, can you believe the price of surround sound?! Think we'll being aftermarketing that one, yessir... I've been to the Dreamliner gallery a few times for meetings, there's a showroom for every part of the plane you'd customize. It's really sweet.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:14
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CharlesM posted:Being able to swap to another engine manufacturer easily is one of the features of the 787. I presume that means that earlier models were a lot more involved. Have this wikipedia quote. Prior to the 787, engine conversions were almost never done. Its simply cheaper to find an aircraft already equipped with the engines you prefer for your fleet. I'm not convinced that even the 787 is going to change that.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:23
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Ah gently caress! There goes my cleverest joke this week.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:24
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Ola posted:I wonder what it's like to fill out the options form of an airliner fleet. Yeah, go with the RRs definitely...heated seats, captain's side sun shade mirror...gently caress, can you believe the price of surround sound?! Think we'll being aftermarketing that one, yessir... Pretty much every single 757 and 767 was build to order on a batch basis. There isn't even an option sheet. You just tell them what you want and they make it, within reason.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:32
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Pretty much every single 757 and 767 was build to order on a batch basis. There isn't even an option sheet. You just tell them what you want and they make it, within reason. This too. Aircraft ordered for different airlines, or hell, even just on different contracts, can have significant parts in-compatibility. UPS's 757s were ordered as freighters from the factory, and as such, have a main deck cargo door, but no pax doors or windows farther down the fuse, and no R1 door, as an example. It's L1, or GTFO.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:36
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quote:Vondizimo posted: See, that makes perfect sense. If there was a charged neutrino that flipped one or many quantum bits (charge, color, type etc) (or similar - gently caress the words/names/science - just look at the sizes of energy and entropy of information involved); then hypothetically, inducing some sort of current (F = q(V X B)) that operates using an as-of-yet unobserved ultra-high-energy effect, this definitely could have relativistic effects, definitely COULD accelerate an aluminum tube (unsure as to what v/c though. depends on energy input, which is unknown. order of uncertainty is ~ 8 hours in places, so could be up to 3/2 sqrt(8) = ~4.24 MeV / mc^2). Plug in 777 mass energy, 1.3 MeV/c^2 - this gives an upper bound on v/ct roughly equal to c/3 - enough for relativistic effects to become VERY measurable The orders of magnitude all really heavily imply relativistic effects, too. Discontinuities of information - lack of communication, lack of any outside influence being observed, very heavy levels of static - general fuckin weirdness. Splitting of signal into two uncertain possibilities? Quantum mechanics. Just ball-park figuring the energy change in dropping 40 thousand feet in a minute - that's 1.3MeV/c^2 , altitude change of 12.19 kilometers in 1 minute, = 12kms-1, about mach 2 - and that's just on TOP of the original speed. If it's travelling at mach 2 in the atmosphere, why was there no sonic boom detected? Adding it's original mach (about 0.83? whatever)), that brings it up very close to the order of uncertainty - 3 x 1.3 MeV/c^2, which would take it to like, 0.83c; which when you lorentz transform it, gives you the right sort of disconinuity. Time between comms stopping and takeoff: ~41 mins (1:22 - 12:41) Time between comms stopping and second sighting: ~ 98 mins = 1h38 mins (2:40 - 1:22) (thai airspace in between ?) TIme between second sighting and final sighting: ~331 mins = 5h31 (8:11 - 2:40) (haven't bothered doing the distance deltas for these yet, but when you do, you can backtrace a relativistic space-time probability and figure out the upper and lower bounds on speeds and thus determine whether there was an external energy input) Why was there an incredibly sharp turn and no communication? (It's not a hijacking, stop watching fox news) "CNN have spoken to the editor of Flying magazine who describes in detail how only a professional pilot could have flown MH370 on the course it is believed to have taken." - unless the LAWS OF PHYSICS (strictly, the generally relativistic space-time continuum: gravitational lensing) quote:"then climbed to 45k 1/3 metres (feet, 2m^3/3?2), sharp turn west hmmery again, 4/5, 2/3 - entropy/energy quanta; uneven - turbulent, up and down, accelerated, west turn = induced force so yeah i'm not making any claims - just conjectures that there's some weird rear end poo poo going on and it definitely needs a deeper look. using proper high energy physics, not "lol passports!!!! *post post post*" (if anyone has any legit primary data/theories and wants some crunching, pm me) ==================== MGH = 1.3 energy * 9.8 gravity * [ 4 * [10*4] (40kftt * 1 minute] == object of mass 1.3MeV/c^2 - 2/3 FT/s -> 60seconds -> 9.8 grav (5th root) Mr SuperAwesome fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 15:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Pretty much every single 757 and 767 was build to order on a batch basis. There isn't even an option sheet. You just tell them what you want and they make it, within reason. That's how my own company works! Only the boss' limits of reason are wider than the programmer's. Also, the talk of exotic effects of physics is loving stupid. In extreme examples concerning human activities such as flying, the human will is harder to understand than the laws of nature. To think that the human will was somehow secondary to some astounding force of nature, presenting itself in a particular case of casual airlining instead of all the deliberate scientific experiments actively trying to provoke it, is what professional psychologists call "way deep in a certain Egyptian river". I thought the plane was on the bottom of the South China Sea. It looks like I was wrong. I wish I wasn't, because it might be that we are opening a new chapter on how we deal with air travel.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:43
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Yeah, but when the idea is "one crazy human makes 230 people, a multimillion huge hunk of aluminum, and a bunch of other poo poo disappear without a trace, without any signals, without any communication, and without anyone on the plane or any of the huge array of satellites picking up any useful signal or wreckage or in fact anything at all" ...in the year 2014 where literally everyone owns about 10 computers and is strapped to them all at any given time, pumpig out huge amounts of data Especially when there's a bunch of discontinuities (dropping 40 thousand feet in one minute - would take a plane to supersonic speeds, again, not detected by equipment specifically designed to detect that), maybe it's worth trying to rule out; and fuckin lol @ u if u think the opposite I'm not advocating making poo poo up, quite the contrary, but suggesting parameters of potential weirdness to conclusively rule out based on known laws of physics, as opposed to the other way round.
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Mar 16, 2014 15:55
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:MGH = 1.3 energy * 9.8 gravity * [ 4 * [10*4] (40kftt * 1 minute] == You should definitely consult a shrink and inform him of this, Mr. SuperAwesome. Mr SuperAwesome posted:and fuckin lol @ u if u think the opposite Sir Cornelius fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 15:57
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:words forget everything I said, I think you've nailed it.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:00
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MrYenko posted:UPS's 757s were ordered as freighters from the factory, and as such, have a main deck cargo door, but no pax doors or windows farther down the fuse, and no R1 door, as an example. It's L1, or GTFO. There are also some passenger 757s being converted to freighters for other airlines besides UPS, and from all the photos I've seen, it looks like some of the conversions relocate the L1 door to where it is on the UPS freighters, and some of them keep the original L1 door position but deactivate all the other doors. edit: there's also a one-off passenger/freighter combi 757 in Nepal, as far as customization goes. Some other 757s were converted that way some time after delivery more recently. StandardVC10 fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 16:02
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:Yeah, but when the idea is "one crazy human makes 230 people, a multimillion huge hunk of aluminum, and a bunch of other poo poo disappear without a trace, without any signals, without any communication, and without anyone on the plane or any of the huge array of satellites picking up any useful signal or wreckage or in fact anything at all" So where do you place the guilt, the burden of responsibility for the deadly mystery which has taken place? On mysterious particles or on mischievous humans? It is not impossible for an airplane to disappear, it is just unlikely.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:06
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StandardVC10 posted:There are also some passenger 757s being converted to freighters for other airlines besides UPS, and from all the photos I've seen, it looks like some of the conversions relocate the L1 door to where it is on the UPS freighters, and some of them keep the original L1 door position but deactivate all the other doors. Plugging doors and windows is common. Most operators leave the L1 and R1 doors functional, though. Purpose-built freighters are actually sort of rare. 747-400F and -400ERFs were the first somewhat common purpose-built freighters.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:11
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rockopete posted:Why would a suicidal hijacker fly on for so long, though? As I've been playing FTL lately, I think the possible hijacker probably tried to mess with cabin pressure to pacify the passangers, and poo poo got away from him/them. "Oh poo poo...Oh poo poo!...oh...poo poo...[thunk]" Ola posted:They charge a million dollars for multicolor position lights! Can you believe this? I know! And we don't need to spend $750,000(?!?) for a take off camera suite. My cousin is pretty handy with these things.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:38
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:Yeah, but when the idea is "one crazy human makes 230 people, a multimillion huge hunk of aluminum, and a bunch of other poo poo disappear without a trace, without any signals, without any communication, and without anyone on the plane or any of the huge array of satellites picking up any useful signal or wreckage or in fact anything at all" So what happened with that African 727? Particles????
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Mar 16, 2014 16:48
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MrYenko posted:Plugging doors and windows is common. Most operators leave the L1 and R1 doors functional, though. Purpose-built freighters are actually sort of rare. 747-400F and -400ERFs were the first somewhat common purpose-built freighters. I am entertained by the A330F since it has a totally redesigned nose gear to fix the nose-down attitude on the ground. 
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Mar 16, 2014 16:50
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BurgerQuest posted:1) Judging by the orbital position (guessing 64E, IOR sat), it's on the older I3 network of satellites, rather than the newer BGAN/FBB/SB network on the I4 satellite. So C is so slow that delays due to position are just ignored, and hence no GPS is needed/used (like on BGAN.) I'm not old enough to have ever worked on C (but I know a ton of people who have.) Does C operate with a spot beam map like BGAN?
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Mar 16, 2014 17:01
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As far as GMDSS goes, C was the only omnidirectional satellite system (A needed a connection to a gyro to train the antenna, while B could track electronically by itself once it had found the satellite). It's low bandwidth as gently caress, too.
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Mar 16, 2014 18:09
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MrYenko posted:Prior to the 787, engine conversions were almost never done. Its simply cheaper to find an aircraft already equipped with the engines you prefer for your fleet. I'm not convinced that even the 787 is going to change that. It hasn't been done yet on the 787 is been proposed on some of the teenager aircraft still Everett but no one really wants to go ahead and do it. Need to take the pylon off
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Mar 16, 2014 18:43
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bolind posted:Does C operate with a spot beam map like BGAN? BGAN and Inmarsat-C are protocols/services.
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Mar 16, 2014 18:44
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Linedance posted:I think it's pretty clear the plane is in a state of quantum superposition, and by doing the calculations required to observe its location, it's bound to turn up there. The problem is that the calculations were originally written to look for seismic events. I think when they get confused, they kind of 'run home to Mama'.
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Mar 16, 2014 19:29
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PatrickBateman posted:It hasn't been done yet on the 787 is been proposed on some of the teenager aircraft still Everett but no one really wants to go ahead and do it. Need to take the pylon off What's the big deal? It's just a pylon what's the worst that could happ-  Oh 
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Mar 16, 2014 19:29
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StandardVC10 posted:edit: there's also a one-off passenger/freighter combi 757 in Nepal, as far as customization goes. Some other 757s were converted that way some time after delivery more recently. Astraeus also has a pair of 757 combis (one converted in 2008 and the other in 2010), and both have been chartered by Iron Maiden for world tours in the past (with Bruce Dickinson as the pilot, naturally), though the Nepalese 757 combi is the only one to have come out of the factory as such. Kilonum fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 19:31
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With a kickin' rad livery, too:
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Mar 16, 2014 19:35
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Yeah, that's the second one (G-STRX). Here's the first one (G-OJIB) 
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Mar 16, 2014 19:37
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