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Don't read the thread and move on  That said the TG As An Industry thread would probably be better for this.
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Mar 16, 2014 10:29
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Anyone think Hoyuk or The Ancient World will be any good?
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Mar 16, 2014 15:07
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Gau posted:You don't say. and Sixth Column and Coventry...
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Mar 16, 2014 15:26
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Rulebook Heavily posted:
For gently caress's sake, that one sentence you guys keep trotting out does not mean what you're deciding it means. Unless you have some example of him actually saying his setting is supposed to be historically accurate and/or represents actual real world Dark Ages life rather than how things operate in his setting, which I have to think you would have brought up by now if one existed, I continue to think you're being ridiculous. But there's no use my repeating myself any further based on your misinterpretation of one quote. For the record, I think a lot of what you guys have quoted is appalling on its own merits and I am definitely not defending the content. I just think y'all are going way out on a limb that's not up to supporting you when you've cited plenty of low hanging fruit.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:01
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malkav11 posted:For gently caress's sake, that one sentence you guys keep trotting out does not mean what you're deciding it means. Unless you have some example of him actually saying his setting is supposed to be historically accurate and/or represents actual real world Dark Ages life rather than how things operate in his setting, which I have to think you would have brought up by now if one existed, I continue to think you're being ridiculous. But there's no use my repeating myself any further based on your misinterpretation of one quote. Counterpoint: If he's not saying "this setting is inspired by 10th-11th century Europe," why does he spend a paragraph talking about 10th-11th century Europe and throwing around the term Dark Ages?" It's either gross historical inaccuracy or terrible, terrible writing--"The setting is equivalent to 10th-11th century Europe. Oh, y'know, not culturally, technologically, or socioeconomically, that's all fictionalized and smeared in a patina of rape and torture, but, y'know, it's... equivalent." What the gently caress does that even mean? PS my favorite part of this ridiculous pile of grimdark claptrap is that even when it was in use by historians, the term Dark Ages hasn't referred to the 10th-11th centuries since, like, Petrarch. Maybe the Magdeburg Chronicles. In any case from the advent of modern historiography until the term fell out of use it generally covered from roughly the 5th-9th centuries. Long story short, I guess, is play Apocalypse World: Dark Ages instead. It's actually inspired by the "correct" time frame and not full of rape and torture.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:21
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The historical inaccuracies are not why this is terrible; the fetishistic focus on rape and torture and "metal" are why this is terrible. The historicity only matters because he makes a few lame attempts at justifying it by alluding that "that's just how it was!" when in fact it is a conscious decision on his part as an author.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:25
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Me: oh cool! A Kickstarter thread! Let's see what kind of cool stuff is on Kic..... *backs slowly out of thread*
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Mar 16, 2014 16:29
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Hubis posted:The historical inaccuracies are not why this is terrible; the fetishistic focus on rape and torture and "metal" are why this is terrible. The historicity only matters because he makes a few lame attempts at justifying it by alluding that "that's just how it was!" when in fact it is a conscious decision on his part as an author. Unquestionably, but why stop at mocking it for being horrible and creepy and childishly gratuitous when we can mock it for being horrible and creepy and childishly gratuitous and based on a gross misunderstanding of history? Doctor Zero posted:Me: oh cool! A Kickstarter thread! Let's see what kind of cool stuff is on Kic..... Yeah, sorry, we should kill this derail. Ummm... here: Mall Adventures is a game by Matt McFarland (cool dude and pro at non-skeevy World of Darkness stuff, among others) for kids to undertake grand quests and have adventures at the mall. It's not an RPG, it's actually a guide to creating puzzles and adventures for your actual kids to solve at actual malls.  It looks super cute and like a great way to spend an afternoon if you're a parent.
GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 16, 2014 |
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Mar 16, 2014 16:32
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Doctor Zero posted:Me: oh cool! A Kickstarter thread! Let's see what kind of cool stuff is on Kic..... Oh come on, it's not normally this bad. People just will not take this discussion where it belongs. In more Kickstarter related things, I'm really looking forward to the Mutant Chronicles RPG https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/mutant-chronicles-3rd-ed-rpg which recently funded (with pledges still open via PayPal)
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Mar 16, 2014 16:36
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In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. quote:This horrific Basilisk is a dreaded foe. Covered in a protein carapace, it thrives in both aerobic and anaerobic environments. It originated in black coal mines. Infestation results in the blackening of the earth and the release of spores that can remain dormant... Puts a stupid grin on my face for some reason.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:40
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I already got a doctor friend to pledge for it while cursing my name.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:02
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Fix posted:Hey guys, maybe just don't buy it and move on. Ettin posted:Don't read the thread and move on Gonna suggest not posting about posting when you are complaining about noise, that said the offending KS seems to have reached the point in discussion where it has become pretty circular, so this is the official notice that the full horrors of Ron Edwards should be explored elsewhere lest: Doctor Zero posted:Me: oh cool! A Kickstarter thread! Let's see what kind of cool stuff is on Kic..... this happen! The poor and oft neglected Industry thread would make a good place for discussion of what is historical or appropriate, that would be a cool chat.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:04
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. It looks really neat and I'm totally pledging for it despite only have an amateur level of medical knowledge.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:05
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. This is beyond amazing, and I feel the world is a better place for it existing.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:07
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I'm SO tempted by that, but $55 is a lot to get it into the UK D: Also, I'm impressed by the infections, but the treatments being cheesecake anime-style girls is kind of bugging me.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:12
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If you were thinking about Dreadball Xtreme, it's got 6 hours left. If you have the original dreadball, I think it'd be worth it to get in on this one at the dollar level so you can buy the new rollup mat version of the original dreadball arena for a cheaper kickstarter price.
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Mar 16, 2014 18:42
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. Looks amazing I'm just annoyed that their card game is sold out as I'd totally buy a bunch for my Microbiology class. Hope they can do a reprint.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:54
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so how do all these half assed idea games get such high quality art and miniatures when they're still asking for money? Where do they find these artists and sculptors because half the games being started seem to be done by total neckbeards who just want an excuse to have a miniature with only panties on. Is there some fantasy artists/miniature sculptor self flaggelation boards?
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Mar 17, 2014 10:00
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Syphilis Fish posted:so how do all these half assed idea games get such high quality art and miniatures when they're still asking for money? Where do they find these artists and sculptors because half the games being started seem to be done by total neckbeards who just want an excuse to have a miniature with only panties on. I imagine they invest a portion of their own personal funds (or in some cases government art or small business grants) into hiring freelance artists to make concept art and/or sculpts for them, which freelance artists will do readily because they need to eat, and a successful kickstarter could mean a contract for another dozen or more sculpts. I don't personally know where one goes to find such artists, but presumably they advertise their services on places like Dakka or BGG?
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Mar 17, 2014 10:04
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NTRabbit posted:I imagine they invest a portion of their own personal funds (or in some cases government art or small business grants) into hiring freelance artists to make concept art and/or sculpts for them, which freelance artists will do readily because they need to eat, and a successful kickstarter could mean a contract for another dozen or more sculpts. I get the impression that a lot of them partner with an artist (or artists) who have already sculpted a line of minis. Then they write a game around the minis line (which is why the games tend to be bad).
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Mar 17, 2014 11:27
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Bucnasti posted:I get the impression that a lot of them partner with an artist (or artists) who have already sculpted a line of minis. Then they write a game around the minis line (which is why the games tend to be bad). I know that's the CMON approach, but I've not really followed or backed enough other small projects to see if they do it too.
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Mar 17, 2014 11:35
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I know if less minis lines were saddled with bad or mediocre games, I'd buy them. There are a lot of minis I'd love to just buy and paint without having to own a game I have no intention of playing.
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Mar 17, 2014 11:51
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quote:I get the impression that a lot of them partner with an artist (or artists) who have already... It's very much this way on the art side for many KS board games. "Designers" will trawl DeviantArt for a bunch of mismatched art and jam it in their horrible low-concept CCG, usually with no attribution. There's about one of these a week, like this one: Conjure. If this guy is paying his artists (and there's at least a few of them, the styles are all over the map and a few are signed different ways) anything for the 500 cards he's done - say $50 a picture - that's $25,000 of expense (on a KS with a goal of $2000). But if he's not paying them anything remotely reasonable (which seems likely), surely they would have wanted some attribution or something (which I can detect no hint of)? I assume what probably happened was something like a "Hey can I use your art in my game?" e-mail that's not going to do a good job of protecting anyone's interests. Anyway, just seems like a time bomb if one of these games is actually successful. I much prefer KS's where the art is being done specifically for the game in question (ideally) or at least where the artist gets proper attribution (eg. Dragon's Hoard, where the artist was kind of a named partner, and everything fit together really nice).
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Mar 17, 2014 16:46
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. Oh god I am so loving in.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:23
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:34
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SnowDog posted:In an attempt to break this derail I will link the Bacterionomicon, a fantasy bestiary of bacteria and the antibiotics that fight them. My niece got accepted into the nursing program at her high school - I think this would be something she would get a kick out of. Thanks for the heads up!
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Mar 17, 2014 17:46
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alchahest posted:That's exactly my thinking, medchem. as for Tuscany, it made funding in 16 minutes, and cleared all of it's original stretch goals in under four hours, a few more have been added now, and the initial burst is slowing down. If anyone's on the fence about it, or has an interest in worker placement games and in kickstarter projects, I would recommend following this, even if you don't end up pledging - Stonemaier runs a really, really tight kickstarter, and it's worth watching even if you ultimately don't end up a backer. Just wanted to follow up on this, 5 days later - The game has raised almost $220,000, which is a ridiculous sum for a worker placement game, let alone so fast. Like, if it were shipping with minis and had crazy amounts of cheesecake I could understand it raising that amount so quickly, but this is a game about owning land and cultivating grapes with quite-nice-but-not-minis components. Have I just not been following the right euro-style game kickstarters recently, or is this as abnormal as it seems to me?
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Mar 17, 2014 18:03
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Holy crap that Bacterionomicon book looks gorgeous. Backed.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:07
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I somehow got tricked into doing more work on 100 Dungeons if we make 6k. These will be kickstarter exclusive bonus dungeons too.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:15
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Countblanc posted:Just wanted to follow up on this, 5 days later - The game has raised almost $220,000, which is a ridiculous sum for a worker placement game, let alone so fast. Like, if it were shipping with minis and had crazy amounts of cheesecake I could understand it raising that amount so quickly, but this is a game about owning land and cultivating grapes with quite-nice-but-not-minis components. Have I just not been following the right euro-style game kickstarters recently, or is this as abnormal as it seems to me? I think one of the main things is massive amounts of community building and engagement from the creators, they take kickstarter very seriously, they have plans on top of plans on top of plans, for all kinds of contingencies. More importantly, probably, is that each kickstarter is building on the success of the last - every time they do it, there's lessons learned and loyal fans accumulated, and they never ignore people that have already bought. they treat every customer like someone who may buy again, which is huge.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:35
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Syphilis Fish posted:so how do all these half assed idea games get such high quality art and miniatures when they're still asking for money? Where do they find these artists and sculptors because half the games being started seem to be done by total neckbeards who just want an excuse to have a miniature with only panties on. Art is cheap, basically. There are people right here on SA who will do fantastic work for like $30-50. Plus some neckbeards can actually draw or whatever, being a greasy neckbeard doesn't mean you are bad at everything after all. Generally the KS's that are successful for good or ill are done by someone who is the... majority shareholder, I guess, in the creative process. Ones that are exercises in delegation of writing and art tend to fall. In the Night.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:39
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alchahest posted:I think one of the main things is massive amounts of community building and engagement from the creators, they take kickstarter very seriously, they have plans on top of plans on top of plans, for all kinds of contingencies. More importantly, probably, is that each kickstarter is building on the success of the last - every time they do it, there's lessons learned and loyal fans accumulated, and they never ignore people that have already bought. they treat every customer like someone who may buy again, which is huge. So how's the (base) game? From what I can tell, the base game had that Kickstarted game feeling of missing something that an expansion is presumably set to fix (see also: Eminent Domain), but it would be a pleasant surprise to see how it is. I'm also not sure why they decided to go with a "Legacy" style expansion. I assume it is just a way to gate the various things in terms of complexity, but it's such a weird marketing tactic.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:42
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GrandpaPants posted:So how's the (base) game? From what I can tell, the base game had that Kickstarted game feeling of missing something that an expansion is presumably set to fix (see also: Eminent Domain), but it would be a pleasant surprise to see how it is. Honestly I have no idea, I missed the original game's kickstarter, I went in on the strength of Euphoria.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:49
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GrandpaPants posted:So how's the (base) game? From what I can tell, the base game had that Kickstarted game feeling of missing something that an expansion is presumably set to fix (see also: Eminent Domain), but it would be a pleasant surprise to see how it is. It's pretty fun early-mid game. There is a late game hang up where only a couple spots are still helping you win, and not enough of them for everyone, so you end up taking one good action early and wasting the rest. They tried to fix this stalling problem with some errata, but I haven't tried it so I can't speak for it's success. Euphoria is better, but I don't regret backing Viticulture.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:02
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I somehow got tricked into doing more work on 100 Dungeons if we make 6k. These will be kickstarter exclusive bonus dungeons too. If you don't, I think the success of this one has shown the market for works of this kind. There's always volume 2! I'm pretty excited to see this one come into being (and into my collection).
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Mar 17, 2014 19:04
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WerrWaaa posted:It's pretty fun early-mid game. There is a late game hang up where only a couple spots are still helping you win, and not enough of them for everyone, so you end up taking one good action early and wasting the rest. They tried to fix this stalling problem with some errata, but I haven't tried it so I can't speak for it's success. Euphoria is better, but I don't regret backing Viticulture. I think that backers for the first viticulture game qualify to get some free upgraded pieces, and the newer errata'd rules. you should take a look at that (if you haven't already)
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Mar 17, 2014 19:06
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Ropes4u posted:Anyone think Hoyuk or The Ancient World will be any good? I'm quoting since this got buried in the rape fetish talk.
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Mar 17, 2014 21:49
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Ropes4u posted:I'm quoting since this got buried in the rape fetish talk. I can't say anything about the quality of the games, but The Ancient World's publisher has done Kickstarters for previous projects and I don't recall any pitchforks being raised against him. You might want to peruse through BGG for his other games though.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:44
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So it looks like the kickstarter for Catacombs just went live, and I'm very tempted to make it my first backed KS project, even though I already own the old edition and the larger of the expansions. I just like the game that much, and drat it, it deserves a reprint with art that doesn't look like it was drawn in some D&D player's highschool notebook.
Scyther fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 23:49
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Scyther posted:So it looks like the kickstarter for Catacombs just went live, and I'm very tempted to make it my first backed KS project, even though I already own the old edition and the larger of the expansions. I just like the game that much, and drat it, it deserves a reprint with art that doesn't look like it was drawn in some D&D player's highschool notebook. Holy poo poo YES. I almost forgot this game existed, since it was out of print for so long. I love the new art style, as well. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go in for this.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:16
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