|
Kirios posted:He doesn't scream Gabbert 2.0 to me, but he's definitely the biggest boom or bust prospect of the three. And you know Bill O'Brien sees a 6'5'' 240 pound quarterback with minor mechanical issues but all the tools in the world to succeed and can't help himself. Change BRB to the Bortles Battle Blog
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:06 |
|
|
I was kind of hoping Bridgewater would underwhelm at his Pro Day because that means there's a better chance he'll be there for the Raiders to grab. I don't understand the knock on Teddy's arm strength. He doesn't have a Cutler cannon but he's not exactly Alex Smith either. I'd put him up there with Brees and a bunch of other quarterbacks in the above average arm strength group. If Bridgewater isn't there at 5, I'd rather grab Khalil Mack than Bortles or Manziel. All 3 prospects might pan out but I just don't see Manziel doing what he does for 8+ years in the league. By the time he's 30 he'll be Doug Flutie (yeah yeah Doug Flutie owns ironically, whatever).
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Toymachine posted:I was kind of hoping Bridgewater would underwhelm at his Pro Day because that means there's a better chance he'll be there for the Raiders to grab. Agreed. And I'm not 100% sold that grabbing Watkins at 5 is better than trading with Detroit and grabbing Jake Matthews/Whoever assuming Teddy/Mack/Clowney are gone
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Agreed. I'm not 100% sold that grabbing Watkins at 5 is better than trading with Detroit and grabbing Jake Matthews/Whoever With the receiver depth in this draft, combined with the lack of a solid QB on the roster, I don't see the sense in taking Watkins. If they could do like Cincy did when they took Green in the first and Dalton in the second, that might work. But otherwise I think Watkins is a luxury they really can't afford.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Regarding the Raiders and their cap space: what is preventing them from giving Bradford-like money to their 5th pick on the Monday after the draft, and sort of forcing the Texans, Rams, Jags and Browns (and the whole NFL for that matter) to spend a lot more on their rookies than they thought?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
Because the salaries are already slotted
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:17
|
|
|
bhsman posted:There's no way Houston would pass up on a quarterback with a premier pass rusher with a first year offensive coach, except for that last time where they did exactly that. I'm not even that high on Bortles bhsman...I don't understand why you're thinking this. It's just something that I think has a very high chance of happening. I'm more irritated that this lowers the chance of the Texans taking Bridgewater, if anything. The loving text under my avatar should give you a good idea of my opinion of Keenum. I loved watching him play, and he did a great job of clinching the #1 pick for us. For that I'll always like the guy. The first couple of games were pretty exciting though - he can throw one hell of a deep ball. In regards to Kubiak, yes, that's a fair statement, but Williams was a higher rated prospect and you're loving kidding yourself if you think Vince "loving" Young rates to the level of any of the top three quarterbacks. Yes, he got drafted #3 overall, but lets be real, Bud Adams was in the advanced stages of dementia by that point. Not to mention that Kubiak had to say he could turn around David Carr, to the point where they were numerous reports back then that it was a Bob McNair requirement. The situations are, admittedly, similar, but there are enough variables involved that you can't make a blanket 1 to 1 statement. In terms of avatars, how about the loser gets a picture of who was taken #1 overall with some silly flattering comments below the picture? We are Texans fans after all, I get no pleasure in watching someone who roots for the same team I do with some stupid My Little Pony avatar. You and I are on clearly different sides of the fence here, and I think it would be fun to put our...avatars where our mouth is. In Bortles we trust...I guess. Sigh. Blaine Gabbert 2.0 may not be too far off of a comparison.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:17
|
|
|
OperaMouse posted:Regarding the Raiders and their cap space: what is preventing them from giving Bradford-like money to their 5th pick on the Monday after the draft, and sort of forcing the Texans, Rams, Jags and Browns (and the whole NFL for that matter) to spend a lot more on their rookies than they thought? Rookie contracts are capped iirc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:17
|
|
|
Intruder posted:Let's talk about how silly some Texans fans are over at a certain blog for thinking the Texans are going to get a third round pick out of the Raiders for Schaub No way the Niners get a 2nd for Smith.  Jokes aside, I would love even a 5th for Schaub; that's three picks in a round that could still have guys like JC Copeland, De'Anthony Thomas, Ricardo Allen, etc.Toymachine posted:I don't understand the knock on Teddy's arm strength. He doesn't have a Cutler cannon but he's not exactly Alex Smith either. I'd put him up there with Brees and a bunch of other quarterbacks in the above average arm strength group. It's not that, it's the fact that his deep ball accuracy is really bad at times. Go watch his vaunted bowl game against Florida and see how he does on deep passes. The guy is an A+ prospect from the neck up and can hit the intermediate routes like Brady, but his deep ball is really bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
I hope the Texans loving take Sammy Watkins and Case Keenum blows up so I can never have to read another treatise on why Bortles is already a bust
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:With the receiver depth in this draft, combined with the lack of a solid QB on the roster, I don't see the sense in taking Watkins. If they could do like Cincy did when they took Green in the first and Dalton in the second, that might work. But otherwise I think Watkins is a luxury they really can't afford. The only way I see them grabbing Watkins is if they feel like their FA acquisitions in the pass rush department and the offensive line are sufficient to get them through the season and Bridgewater/Mack/Clowney aren't there. I'd rather have Watkins and an OT/Carr in the 2nd than Bortles/Manziel/OT in the first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I hope the Texans loving take Sammy Watkins and Case Keenum blows up so I can never have to read another treatise on why Bortles is already a bust Only if we also take Tajh Boyd.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
^^^^How does Watkins->Mettenberger->JuWuan James->Justin Ellis sound?Kirios posted:In terms of avatars, how about the loser gets a picture of who was taken #1 overall with some silly flattering comments below the picture? We are Texans fans after all, I get no pleasure in watching someone who roots for the same team I do with some stupid My Little Pony avatar. You and I are on clearly different sides of the fence here, and I think it would be fun to put our...avatars where our mouth is. I'm not sure how we would even determine the winner/loser. Are you now assuming Bortles will be the pick and Clowney for me? What happens if we're both wrong? Etc. Anyways, my point is that you shouldn't take the Pro Day results so seriously for Teddy. It will be just another piece of the puzzle, not never moreso than his game tape.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
bhsman posted:I'm not sure how we would even determine the winner/loser. Are you now assuming Bortles will be the pick and Clowney for me? What happens if we're both wrong? Etc. I take the Pro Day results seriously in regards to it hurting the chances of the Texans taking Teddy. That's all you need to read into it. Well, lets say QB vs the field for the wager. If the Texans take Sammy Watkins or Barr I think that still counts as a victory in your hands. bhsman posted:^^^^How does Watkins->Mettenberger->JuWuan James->Justin Ellis sound? Why would we take Watkins? Zach Mettenberger I say no only because he wears #8. I've had enough of quarterbacks with that number - it's time to go in a new direction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
Might not mean anything, but O'Brien got to see Bortles first hand this year when PSU lost to UCF, and Bortles played pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
Butthead posted:Might not mean anything, but O'Brien got to see Bortles first hand this year when PSU lost to UCF, and Bortles played pretty good. Before even taking the Texans job Bill O'Brien was on record saying he thought very highly of Bortles. That plays into me thinking the way I do with Bill and the #1 pick.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Kirios posted:I take the Pro Day results seriously in regards to it hurting the chances of the Texans taking Teddy. That's all you need to read into it. And that's why O'Brien is the coach and you and I are here posting on SA. quote:Well, lets say QB vs the field for the wager. If the Texans take Sammy Watkins or Barr I think that still counts as a victory in your hands. I've got a Bill And Ted's Excellent Photoshop already on my hands, so I'm good. Clowney would just be a picture him with a clown nose. quote:Why would we take Watkins? Zach Mettenberger I say no only because he wears #8. I've had enough of quarterbacks with that number - it's time to go in a new direction. We would (theoretically) take Watkins because the FO thinks Andre only has a year or two left (before proceeding to put up two 1600/110/15 seasons), and having Sammy and Nuk would lock down the top of our wideout positions. Also  at the No. 8 comment; oh no he has the same number as our multi-Pro Bowl QB. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Oh come on, I certainly hope you didn't take that #8 comment seriously. I like Nuke enough as a potential #1 that I feel like taking Watkins would be a luxury pick....not to mention I don't think he's a #1 talent. I'm not even sure if I think he's a top 10 talent, honestly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
Kirios posted:I'm not even sure if I think he's a top 10 talent, honestly. cmon kirios
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
Kirios posted:Oh come on, I certainly hope you didn't take that #8 comment seriously. I like Nuke enough as a potential #1 that I feel like taking Watkins would be a luxury pick....not to mention I don't think he's a #1 talent. I'm not even sure if I think he's a top 10 talent, honestly. Watkins is probably the best WR prospect to come out since AJ Green. And then probably Megatron before that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
If BOB is as good at QB development as people say I'd be thrilled with Bortles. I don't know if that's just his talking point though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
Doltos posted:cmon kirios Wanna see that Kirios big board
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
Toymachine posted:Watkins is probably the best WR prospect to come out since AJ Green. And then probably Megatron before that. Iffy. I'd put him on the same level as Blackmon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Mmm...I liked Justin Blackmon more than Sammy Watkins coming out, honestly. Sammy would probably be in my top 10 but he'd be in the lower half of it for sure. Here's people I know I like more than Watkins off the top of my head: Bridgewater Bortles Manziel Clowney Robinson Matthews Mack ...looking at the list that's all I definitely see as superior to him. So that would put him at #8...second tier of players for me. And that would be before debating him between Barr, Dennard (Who I like a lot), Evans and Ebron. Am I really that out of line for suggesting he's not the most amazing prospect ever? All I said was "I'm not even sure I think he's a top 10 talent, honestly." I will say that I'm pretty high on Evans though, I think he's a stud. So for the fact that I'm putting Watkins in that category means that I think he's a great prospect, just not one of those every 4-5 years like Green or Calvin Johnson, which I feel is very reasonable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Valuing multiple linemen over a top-flight WR the football season may be over but it's always in-season here at TFF
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Toymachine posted:Watkins is probably the best WR prospect to come out since AJ Green. And then probably Megatron before that. Wait next year for this kind of talk about the best WR in the class 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
A lot of the draft guys I follow on Twitter have expressed serious concern about Bortles' lower body mechanics, saying it fucks with his deep ball placement despite his arm strength. Obviously that could potentially be fixed, but it could be a Stafford type situation where he reverts to bad habits in games all the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:57
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Valuing multiple linemen over a top-flight WR Watching the top part of the 2012 Draft with TFF was glorious. It was the draft we always wanted. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
You must have loved 2009 when Monroe, Oher, Smith, and Smith came out. That draft also had Beatty/Britton as fringe first rounders, Alex Mack and Eric Wood, and Levitre/Vasquez. It was literally a goon wet dream draft.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
For my part, my list is: 1) Clowney 2) Watkins 3) Robinson 4) Mack 5) Matthews 6) Aaron Donald 7) Bridgewater 8) Barr 9) Evans 10) Ebron
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:08
|
|
|
Blake bortles purely as a prospect is higher than clowney yup ok
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:15
|
|
|
AAA DOLFAN posted:Blake bortles purely as a prospect is higher than clowney yup ok He beat Penn State that one time, though.  In Kirios's defense, I think he was just naming players without assigning a rank.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
Correct - I was just naming players. *sigh* Fine, I'll throw myself out there. Here's my top 10: 1. Robinson 2. Mack 3. Bridgewater 4. Clowney 5. Matthews 6. Manziel 7. Bortles 8. Dennard 9. Evans 10. Watkins Yes...I think Greg Robinson is the best prospect in the draft.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Kirios posted:Correct - I was just naming players. I'm surprised at where you rank Mack and Clowney; are you giving brownie points for him being more polished or what?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Mack reminds me a lot of Von Miller - I think he's an absolute monster and difference maker as a 3-4 OLB. He's someone that I fully expect to produce 12+ sack seasons year in and year out. This may sound strange but I actually like Clowney most as a 3-4 defensive end. I don't think his pass rushing ability is nearly to the level that Mack's is, and that's why I have Mack rated higher. It's actually very close to me between Robinson and Mack as the best player in the draft.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
Aniki posted:Tampa Bay could also be an option to take Bridgewater, but they seem to be in the process of rebuilding their offensive line, so he may not be a clear option for them if one of the top two OTs is still on the board. They just signed a LT, extended their RT, and signed a new Center. The only offensive line pieces they might draft are at Guard. They'd probably take a LT if all three QBs, Watkins, Mack, and Clowney are gone and even then I think they'd just go best defensive player available. Lovie is on the record saying they'll take a QB if one is available and they've addressed every major hole in FA so based on their draft position and their roster the weakest position on the team now is QB.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
So there's still hope for Manziel in the NFC is what I'm hearing (delusional).
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Relentlessboredomm posted:They just signed a LT, extended their RT, and signed a new Center. The only offensive line pieces they might draft are at Guard. They'd probably take a LT if all three QBs, Watkins, Mack, and Clowney are gone and even then I think they'd just go best defensive player available. Thanks for clearing that up. I noticed that they were jettisoning quite a few offensive linemen, but I hadn't really paid attention to whether they were signing replacements or not. What's the deal with bailing on Glennon already? I know that he was Schiano's "guy," but he was a third round pick thrown into a starting role earlier than expected and at least superficially put up some decent numbers. He seems like a guy who deserves some more time, even if that time is sitting behind McCown. Was there anything that you saw in his first season starting that made you feel that he is a dead end?
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
Doltos posted:You must have loved 2009 when Monroe, Oher, Smith, and Smith came out. That draft also had Beatty/Britton as fringe first rounders, Alex Mack and Eric Wood, and Levitre/Vasquez. It was literally a goon wet dream draft. Last year was the real goon wet dream. Fisher, Joekel, warmack, fluker, Pugh, long, cooper, and lane Johnson, all in the first round. I might even be forgetting someone. And the center Dallas took whose name I forget
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 21:06 |
|
|
Febreeze posted:Last year was the real goon wet dream. Fisher, Joekel, warmack, fluker, Pugh, long, cooper, and lane Johnson, all in the first round. I might even be forgetting someone. Frederick.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2014 02:11
|
|
