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Doltos posted:cmon kirios What are your evaluation for the top 3 QBs? A lot seems like smokescreens and storylines but criticizing Bortles for playing subpar competition and QB inflation seems legitimate.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:35
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MonsterWalk posted:What are your evaluation for the top 3 QBs? A lot seems like smokescreens and storylines but criticizing Bortles for playing subpar competition and QB inflation seems legitimate. I'd say Kirios calling him an elite level prospect is certainly worth of some laughter
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Mar 18, 2014 03:10
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MonsterWalk posted:What are your evaluation for the top 3 QBs? A lot seems like smokescreens and storylines but criticizing Bortles for playing subpar competition and QB inflation seems legitimate. Haven't seen any of their pro day footage yet so can't tell you for sure where I think they're standing right now. I wish Manziel and Bridgewater threw at the combine. Bortles looked good at the combine although I've seen blurbs saying otherwise. He also played PSU, Rutgers, Louisville, Houston, South Carolina, and Baylor. Not all SEC quality defenses but he played the SEC tough. The subpar competition is silly. As for smokescreens and storylines, I'm not a fortune teller. We all get fed the same stuff from twitter, beat writers, and rotoworld. From what I can see from the guys: they're three unique prospects. I think they fit teams differently. Manziel doesn't seem like an O'Brien type QB to me, so I'm ruling him out of the first overall. Between Bridgewater and Bortles, I'd lean towards Bortles being the guy O'Brien wants. Stout, big arm, needs fixing in some areas of his mechanics to get better on his deep ball touch. Kind of crazy on his passes too. I think Bridgewater is the best of the bunch, but on draft day I think he may fall a bit. Also I love Derek Carr.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:19
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Daltos is still all about the name tool
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Mar 18, 2014 03:34
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Intruder posted:Daltos is still all about the name tool Except that while Blake Bortles has all kinds of strong name elements, his name remains Bortles. Bortles. It betrays everything. Though I look forward to him starting so I can call him the BB gun
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Mar 18, 2014 03:44
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Febreeze posted:Though I look forward to him starting so I can call him the BB gun That's such a unintimidating name and there's a guy called the Red Rifle in the league.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:28
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Is somebody gonna draft Bryn "The Gunner" Renner?
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Mar 18, 2014 04:29
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I'm still on the bandwagons of the big three (JFF/Clowney/Teddy) but I'm to the point now where I want it to be just one of those three. I think if they take another guy at the 1.1 spot that we will be kicking ourselves for not grabbing one of these three guys. That's my opinion. They could all be mondo busts, but I am willing to place bets on one or two of these guys having decent NFL careers, and maybe even spectacular ones.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:33
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Doltos posted:I'll argue that Mario Williams was a better prospect than Clowney. Clowney is a once-every-15-years prospect who was slated to go No. 1 overall from the moment he "graduated" high school. Mario Williams wasn't even a first-day player until after his final season of college. How can- Oh, Doltos post. Disregard.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:06
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LARGE THE HEAD posted:Clowney is a once-every-15-years prospect who was slated to go No. 1 overall from the moment he "graduated" high school. Mario Williams wasn't even a first-day player until after his final season of college. How can- That's the best part about Clowney. There is really no player just like him in the NFL. The closest to his freakish athleticism and size combo was probably young Julius Peppers.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:10
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bhsman posted:That's such a unintimidating name and there's a guy called the Red Rifle in the league. That was kind of my point. I'm not high on Bortles. Also BB Gun is still somehow less stupid sounding than Bortles.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:18
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LARGE THE HEAD posted:Clowney is a once-every-15-years prospect who was slated to go No. 1 overall from the moment he "graduated" high school. Mario Williams wasn't even a first-day player until after his final season of college. How can- Mario outperformed Clowney in every sense (except 40 yard dash but he was also 30 lbs heavier and didn't get beaten by much) in the combine and also had a better final season than him. He was so good that he tricked other teams into drafting lovely teammates in the first round only to watch them bust horribly (Manny Lawson and John McCargo) How a player was viewed out of high school isn't that relevant, there are plenty of 5* recruits that wash out Intruder fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 05:33
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Clowney was much more highly regarded by NFL types for far longer than Mario Williams. Obviously Williams has done very well for himself in the NFL but at no point was he a better prospect than Clowney.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:38
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At the point when they were being drafted he was absolutely a better prospect than Clowney. Clowney has been a top tier prospect for longer, but Mario shot into the stratosphere and the only knock against him was he hadn't been doing it for that long
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Mar 18, 2014 05:43
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Yes, that's true. But that one single knock is enough to put Clowney above Mario, is it not? One year wonder tag is a pretty big negative at the top of the first round.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:17
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Intruder posted:Let's talk about how silly some Texans fans are over at a certain blog for thinking the Texans are going to get a third round pick out of the Raiders for Schaub Let's put this to rest, the Raiders want no part of Schaub's $10m salary. They'll wait until the Texans cut him and sign him for much cheaper.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:42
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warcrimes posted:Let's put this to rest, the Raiders want no part of Schaub's $10m salary. They'll wait until the Texans cut him and sign him for much cheaper. Trading for him would actually be very useful for the Raiders. They'd get $10m against their cap when they desperately need to fill space to reach the floor, and they can cut him after a year without absorbing any dead money. But if they give up more than a conditional sixth for him, holy poo poo If they just sign him, they'd probably have to give him guaranteed money which means they take a cap hit if they cut him
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Mar 18, 2014 07:45
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Intruder posted:Trading for him would actually be very useful for the Raiders. They'd get $10m against their cap when they desperately need to fill space to reach the floor, and they can cut him after a year without absorbing any dead money. But if they give up more than a conditional sixth for him, holy poo poo It's not happening.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:51
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Maybe not, but it makes sense as long as the Raiders are giving up very little. And the Raiders are the only team in the NFL that it makes sense for since a) they don't have a QB (McGloin isn't he long term answer, sorry) and b) they desperately need to spend money I doubt any trade will happen before the draft though. If Bridgewater or JFF somehow falls to them, then that's the end of that possibility e: Also I'd love to hear your reasoning why it's better to sign him than trade a very late round pick for him other than "nuh huh" given the Raiders situation. I guess they could dump a huge contract with a big signing bonus on one of the third tier FAs left? Intruder fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 07:53
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The penalty for not spending the money is a fine of money, so there isn't really much desperation there. If Schaub is an actual improvement, then it makes sense to pay him, but not necessarily at the cost of a draft pick. If the Raiders aren't convinced he can improve their team in three years (by tutelage of younger QBs or by play of his own), then there's no reason for them to do that whatsoever.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:19
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What's the penalty for not meeting the floor? Is it just money? I saw some Raiders fans worried they'd be docked picks, and I mean first or second day picks which would obviously be a pretty big deal. If it's a top 3 rounds draft pick or a cap penalty similar to what the Cowboys or Redskins received, that's a pretty big deal as well Anyway, IMO there's more value in a contract you can simply dump with no cap penalty than there is in a conditional sixth or seventh so I can't really say what will happen. I just wish the Texans had cut Schaub by now if they're not in a real negotiation. If I'm the Raiders, I offer a conditional sixth if they make the playoffs and a seventh otherwise (so a seventh) (This is assuming they actually have an interest in Schaub) Intruder fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 08:23
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I'm actually not certain but I think it just makes the Raiders pay all the players they've had over the prescribed period a share of the difference to the 93% or whatever it is. In that case, it's like a free loan. Obviously, spending it on improving the team should come first, but spending it just for the sake of spending it is silly.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:48
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Intruder posted:Maybe not, but it makes sense as long as the Raiders are giving up very little. And the Raiders are the only team in the NFL that it makes sense for since a) they don't have a QB (McGloin isn't he long term answer, sorry) and b) they desperately need to spend money Well, from a personal standpoint, those draft picks are worth more than Schaub, since he's going to be a temp solution, not our long term answer at QB. But more importantly, that's the word out of Raiders HQ, not me fanwanking. I expect them to sign either Schaub or Vick to a friendly 2-3 year deal and draft a QB this year or next.
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Mar 18, 2014 10:33
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The Browns are either fooling themselves or the rest of the league by showing zero interest in any of the QBs. They only sent Ray Farmer to the Lousiville pro day and he was supposedly more interested in some late round LB prospect than Bridgewater.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:11
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smuggler posted:I'm actually not certain but I think it just makes the Raiders pay all the players they've had over the prescribed period a share of the difference to the 93% or whatever it is.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:24
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AAA DOLFAN posted:I'd say Kirios calling him an elite level prospect is certainly worth of some laughter Come on, he's the favorite to go #1. How is that not an elite prospect in this draft? At the very worst he's going top 10, and considering that ~250 players get drafted every year with numerous more going undrafted I'd say that's elite company.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:21
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LARGE THE HEAD posted:Clowney is a once-every-15-years prospect who was slated to go No. 1 overall from the moment he "graduated" high school. Mario Williams wasn't even a first-day player until after his final season of college. How can- Oh LTH. First, there is zero stock to be gained from being highly recruited from high school. Kids grow and develop differently from ages 18-24. Many five star recruits wash out, many lower ranked players succeed. You want 5* recruits for the same reason you want top 10 draft picks; they give you a higher chance at succeeding. There's no guarantee that they'll become dominant players, just a better shot at becoming dominant players. Second, Mario Williams had an inch and thirty something pounds on Clowney coming out. He tested amazingly well for a man his size. Most 6'6 DEs turn into big mounds of muscle 3-4 DEs but Mario broke that mold. I say it once I'll say it again, Mario Williams tackled a runningback his rookie year by picking up a TE and throwing it at him. Look at this comparison for combine results: code:code:Third, none of this faults Clowney. He's still an incredible prospect. Mario was just an absolute freak of nature. He was bigger and stronger than Clowney and only two tenths of a second slower.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:36
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Kirios posted:Come on, he's the favorite to go #1. How is that not an elite prospect in this draft? At the very worst he's going top 10, and considering that ~250 players get drafted every year with numerous more going undrafted I'd say that's elite company. Going top 5 to qb needy teams is not going to make someone elite. For me, it's simple. If bortles fell to #11 or whatever, would people be stunned? Not really, no. It happens every year to prospects like him. If rg3 or luck fell past freaking number 2 in their draft it was pandemonium. Those are elite prospects. Bortles is a fast rise late in the process being courted by several teams in need of a quarterback. He's a top 5 candidate, no doubt. But in relation to other qb prospects over time? He's far from the top.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:05
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This is why I'm so against Clowney at number one. The guy he most closely compares to didn't bring a ton of success to his team. I mean would you rather have would you rather have Mario Williams or Matt Ryan?
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Mar 18, 2014 15:07
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The Puppy Bowl posted:This is why I'm so against Clowney at number one. The guy he most closely compares to didn't bring a ton of success to his team. I mean would you rather have would you rather have Mario Williams or Matt Ryan? Mario brought a lot to that team until his pectoral injuries. Texans defense wasn't that good in its fledgling years. There were other factors that led to that team being awful, most notably an O-Line that ruined the career of David Carr. Then Mario went to the Bills and helped completely turn that defense around. I'd argue that I'd take him over Matt Ryan any day. Taking him over Luck or Peyton? That's iffy. There's no Luck or Peyton in this draft though. I still think O'Brien targets Bortles. I can't predict where the Texans are going but that just feels right to me at the moment.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:10
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I've always found the comparison of players coming out of the draft really odd. Most people are beneficiaries of their individual situations as much, if not more-so, than their measurables in my opinion. If someone is going to work hard on the next level and push themselves and their team then that's already ingrained in them and the system they wind up in will play a big role in their success or failure. I guess I'd rather have a middle of the road hard worker than a physically talented lazy slob. I don't think Clowney is lazy at all, but I do think he will be in top player talks only if he winds up on a handful of teams. The same was true for Williams if I'm remembering correctly.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:14
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Because of the importance of the position I'd much rather have a mid to good QB than good to superb DE, but I'm probably still biased from the early Ravens. I wonder if it's easier to find a starter caliber QB today than it was 15 years ago.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:17
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Going top 5 to qb needy teams is not going to make someone elite. RG3 wasn't really anybody until his final year at Baylor, though.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:37
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Kirios posted:Oh come on, I certainly hope you didn't take that #8 comment seriously. I like Nuke enough as a potential #1 that I feel like taking Watkins would be a luxury pick....not to mention I don't think he's a #1 talent. I'm not even sure if I think he's a top 10 talent, honestly.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:40
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No Butt Stuff posted:RG3 wasn't really anybody until his final year at Baylor, though. Very good point. Bortles is a later riser than rg3 was, but they both got the hype towards the end. Still, way more flags on bortles than rg3. If I'm drafting first overall and I have inherited the texans roster, it's a goddamn brutal decision. I still write down teddy bridge water and cross my fingers for the next three years though. Also set my dvr to record Cleveland games because watch JFF in that offense is gonna rule
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Mar 18, 2014 16:11
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warcrimes posted:Well, from a personal standpoint, those draft picks are worth more than Schaub, since he's going to be a temp solution, not our long term answer at QB. But more importantly, that's the word out of Raiders HQ, not me fanwanking. The scuttlebutt on twitter amongst the usual rumor monger suspects is that the Raiders are in on him, who knows. It makes little difference to me either way, an extra sixth or seventh is nothing to get excited about and they're eating the cap hit whether they cut him or trade him. I was mainly just pointing out how ridiculous it is to think they're getting a third for him
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Mar 18, 2014 16:28
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If y'all are so worried about his name, just make sure whoever drafts him also drafts his Name Counterweight from UCF, Storm Johnson.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:34
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Alouicious posted:If y'all are so worried about his name, just make sure whoever drafts him also drafts his Name Counterweight from UCF, Storm Johnson. I assume he'll line up at weatherman?
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Mar 18, 2014 16:35
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Very good point. Bortles is a later riser than rg3 was, but they both got the hype towards the end. Still, way more flags on bortles than rg3. Bortles performed well his freshman year, exceedingly well his sophomore, and became more recognizable because UCF jumped from Conference USA to the American Athletic Conference. He was on radars in 2012 and had an exemplary junior season.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:48
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FSU's pro-day is going on and it's getting bits and clips posted on instagram and vine and twitter darby_ronald 14 minutes ago Boy @_showtime31 and Joyner pro day #nolenation http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/e6b0079caeb311e3a7d40a4cce3aa0e4_101.mp4 Brandon Mellor @BrandonMellor 10m In the making more $$ department, #Noles DB Terrence Brooks (@_Showtime31) dominating every drill -- just like he did at NFL Combine. Brandon Mellor @BrandonMellor 7m Collective "oooohs" and "aaaahs" in the IPF every time #Noles DB Lamarcus Joyner turns his hips and cuts in these drills. Freak. TomahawkNation.com @TomahawkNation 6m Rob Ryan paying close attention to Telvin Smith and the linebackers @SaintsCSC @MockingTheDraft It'll be uploaded on ESPN3 sometime later today pillsburysoldier fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 17:00
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