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Silver2195 posted:Japan definitely has serious problems with gender equality, but there's a lot of important factors not being taken into account by these maps. A country with the level of rape South Africa has shouldn't qualify as green. But anyway, I was only really comparing Japan to other developed countries.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:16
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mystes posted:I had missed this, but Abe's Advisory Panel on Reconstruction of the Legal Basis for Security had announced a list of five conditions for the exercise of collective self defense under Abe's proposed reinterpretation of the constitution: I think Abe and his friends are solely after a true restoration of Japan's independent great power status. They'll hang on to the alliance only for as long as its useful enough to justify the existing restraints on their foreign policy independence. To that end, I think it's actually not a bad idea for them to take up nuclear arms. It would allow them to conduct their foreign policy without being dependent on the U.S.'s approval. No one can really stop them, if this is what they choose to do. Lastly, they're not going to be looking to subordinate themselves to Russians, or anything silly like that. ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 21:31
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NeilPerry posted:What is the popular opinion on immigration? I always hear about how racist Japan is, but I haven't experienced it first hand in any way other than being patronised a bit here and there. Is there any way a conservative party can put a positive spin on looser immigration laws? I'm guessing that this is why you haven't experienced it much: you're white, or you're an East Asian that can physically pass off as Japanese (until you open your mouth). Here is a Japanese-American's look at racism in Japan. Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxnmMrWOj3c Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ima17mX8_fU ComaPrison fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 21:37
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I grew up in Yokohama in an area with a heavy expat presence (Naka-ku), so seeing non-Japanese wasn't that unusual. There were 3 international schools in the area (Yokohama International, St. Maurs, St. Josephs) and there were stores that catered to the gaijin crowd. Outside of that zone though, I got called a 毛唐 once. I was, like, 10 at the time by the way. When I visit my grandparents who live in Shiogama in the Miyagi Prefecture, I feel like the lone gaijin and oddly enough, no one there really seems to give a poo poo or even give me a second glance.
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Mar 8, 2014 22:33
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Vagabundo posted:I got called a 毛唐 once. Whoa what's the story here? Was it to your face?
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Mar 8, 2014 23:06
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Google translate gives me "newcomer". Is "keto" a particularly offensive word for foreigners?
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Mar 8, 2014 23:14
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Paper Mac posted:Google translate gives me "newcomer". Is "keto" a particularly offensive word for foreigners? edit: almost certainly pre-dating "gaijin" and so on.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:15
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Paper Mac posted:Google translate gives me "newcomer". Is "keto" a particularly offensive word for foreigners? It's an old word that means literally "hairy" and used to refer to Chinese people, but came to be used for foreigners in general and Westerners in specific. It's not at all common though, and I've met plenty of Japanese people who had never even heard of it, which is why I'm interested in the circumstances of how it came up.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:18
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Oh, Chinese too? Didn't know that.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:19
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Samurai Sanders posted:Oh, Chinese too? Didn't know that. けとう‐じん【毛唐人】けタウ‐ 外国人を卑しめていう語。古くは中国人を、のちには欧米人をいった。 Edit: Actually the wikipedia article is pretty interesting: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AF%9B%E5%94%90 Edit 2: poo poo, looking up 毛唐人 on wikipedia must've tripped something because I immediately get this video under my youtube suggestions. Some jerkoff payed money to promote his video poo poo-talking Korea. Goddamn filter bubble. LimburgLimbo fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 23:20
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When I read Samurai Saunder's initial response my first thought was that if the word was coined in response to contacts with male Mediterranean and Northern European sailors, it might actually be a fair description, but it's the fact that they were applying it to any old outsider irrespective of their levels of manly beard & chest hair that makes it truly offensive.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:31
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I was just reading this article on a 2ch-connected game blog (I can't really recommend going there yourself) about a Korean (I think?) player on a Japanese soccer team getting booed when walking onto the field, and posters saying JAPANESE ONLY. That alone is one thing, I'm used to hearing stories of soccer fans all over the world being racist. But the problem is, the commenters on this page, a big chunk of them claim that this is actually a Korean conspiracy to make Japan look bad, which is what I hear whenever I read news of Japanese racism. As long as they hold onto that mindset, they're gonna be ignorant scum forever.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:47
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Samurai Sanders posted:I was just reading this article on a 2ch-connected game blog (I can't really recommend going there yourself) about a Korean (I think?) player on a Japanese soccer team getting booed when walking onto the field, and posters saying JAPANESE ONLY. That alone is one thing, I'm used to hearing stories of soccer fans all over the world being racist. But the problem is, the commenters on this page, a big chunk of them claim that this is actually a Korean conspiracy to make Japan look bad. As long as they hold onto that mindset, they're gonna be ignorant scum forever. I thought it was a pretty standard opinion in Japan (well, 'standard') that everything that makes Japan look bad is actually a Korean conspiracy.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:48
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Zohar posted:I thought it was a pretty standard opinion in Japan (well, 'standard') that everything that makes Japan look bad is actually a Korean conspiracy. In slightly related news, 2ch's operators are trying to stamp out blogs like this, which hijack 2ch content and their users and make ad revenue from it. If they do though, 2ch itself might fade away. I doubt very many tears would be shed over that though, other than by right-wing assholes. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 23:51
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So is 2chan like the Freep of Japan or something?
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Mar 9, 2014 00:03
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Mercury_Storm posted:So is 2chan like the Freep of Japan or something?
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Mar 9, 2014 00:05
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Mercury_Storm posted:So is 2chan like the Freep of Japan or something? In about the same way 4chan is like the Freep of Not-Japan, it's more like reddit.
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Mar 9, 2014 00:05
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LimburgLimbo posted:Whoa what's the story here? Was it to your face? Mum went shopping and took me and my brother along to either Sogo or Takashimaya, and someone said something like "毛唐の子がいる*." It was about 20 years ago, so the exact details are hazy, but I remember it was some middle aged woman walking by us and my mum (who is Japanese) was loving furious about it. The horrible cow had walked off in the crowd before it really registered what she'd said. *"Look at the Keto children." Samurai Sanders posted:I was just reading this article on a 2ch-connected game blog (I can't really recommend going there yourself) about a Korean (I think?) player on a Japanese soccer team getting booed when walking onto the field, and posters saying JAPANESE ONLY. That alone is one thing, I'm used to hearing stories of soccer fans all over the world being racist. But the problem is, the commenters on this page, a big chunk of them claim that this is actually a Korean conspiracy to make Japan look bad, which is what I hear whenever I read news of Japanese racism. As long as they hold onto that mindset, they're gonna be ignorant scum forever. There was a thread on 2ch about Terrafor-Mars and the allegations of racism in that manga, and quite a few commenters were basically saying the only racists that existed in East Asia were the チョンシナ, completely oblivious to the irony of the comments. For those who haven't heard of it, it's a popular manga series about a group of humans who have gone to Mars to exterminate cockroaches which had been placed on the planet as part of a terraforming operation, only to find that they've evolved into humanoid form, and are extremely strong, fast, intelligent and hostile. Oh, and this is what they look like.  The author has said he'd based them on Peking Man and made them black (as in the colour black, not African black) because that's the colour of cockroaches, but it's not hard to wonder about the politics of the series. edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 00:17
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Mercury_Storm posted:So is 2chan like the Freep of Japan or something? edit: how did the "tuna" thing get added to "chon" anyway? I've been wondering that for a while. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 00:30
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Isn't 4chan a forum for pornographic drawings and internet memes? How is that anything like 2ch?
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Mar 9, 2014 00:35
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mystes posted:Isn't 4chan a forum for pornographic drawings and internet memes? How is that anything like 2ch? edit: it hardly matters though since the percentage of anyone from either place walking the talk must be tiny as hell. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 00:37
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Vagabundo posted:The author has said he'd based them on Peking Man and made them black (as in the colour black, not African black) because that's the colour of cockroaches, but it's not hard to wonder about the politics of the series. Don't think the Peking Man had African hair.
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Mar 9, 2014 00:40
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LimburgLimbo posted:けとう‐じん【毛唐人】けタウ‐ Thanks for the link. That led me to the article about problematic words in Japan, which led me to have a conversation with a friend of mine, which led him to me linking me to this site which lists all the former burakumin areas in Aichi. I think the crazy comes through pretty well here whether or not you speak Japanese. And picking out that page from the site is really burying the lead. I've been reading a lot of Akutagawa recently and the language used on the site sounds about that old.
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Mar 9, 2014 05:22
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This is pretty cool. http://tokyodesu.com/2014/03/15/j-league-shames-team-for-racist-banner-in-most-badass-way-possible/ quote:A group of fans placed a “Japanese Only” banner outside an entrance to a section of stands during a recent game, drawing the ire of some human rights watchdogs; especially in light of the fact that team management failed to remove the banner and, after the incident went public, even defended the fans by speculating that they “probably meant ‘Japanese Language Only.’” And the response from J-league. quote:That all changed when the J-League unleashed an incredible Zinedine Zedane headbutt-level can of whoopass on all involved in the incident, banning the fans who posted the sign for life, forcing the Reds to play their next game in an empty stadium, and banning Reds team supporters from displaying banners of any kind for the foreseeable future.
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Mar 17, 2014 21:26
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Wibbleman posted:This is pretty cool. A good response. Why was the banner erected in the first place? I assume it must have been an international exhibition game? An attempt to keep those dirty foreign supporters out of the pure Japanese seating?
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Mar 18, 2014 07:13
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ozza posted:A good response. Why was the banner erected in the first place? I assume it must have been an international exhibition game? An attempt to keep those dirty foreign supporters out of the pure Japanese seating? I think they're butthurt that their club keeps getting beat because they can't afford foreign players.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:47
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Urawa had a very strong season last year and generally finish pretty high. They have a much lower number of foreign players than before, just the long serving Brazilian Marcio Richardes who is pretty popular. We did sign Tadanari Lee who having just played for Southampton in the BPL isn't a bargain signing. So I don't really understand the above comment. I'm a supporter and when I go I sit in that section so I was pretty concerned about how this would play out but am pretty happy with the reaction of the league and club. I've never had major problems there and the banner was done by a supporters group which is by no means representative. The leaders of some of these groups like to be the focus and show off and direct the other people. That doesn't work so well with a lot of foreigners who come for a game or two and it's probably where the resentment comes from in my opinion. Also lots of these foreigners who come will wear any football jersey which is petty stupid and annoying but clearly these racist were idiots. Also, they stated that the Stadium was Holy Ground to them. I guess they never knew it was built for a World Cup.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:00
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You know, I've never really understood the relationship between Japanese sports teams and their supporters' clubs (mostly in the context of baseball, only really been to baseball games over there). How much does the team control/support their actions?
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Mar 18, 2014 08:08
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Yeah a "good" response maybe if you ignore what they said when doling out the punishments. The J league chairman basically hand-waved away any actual responsibility of the Japanese racists by saying how their fans aren't intentionally racist, and the sign is only discriminatory because some people are offended by it  Standard japanese apology really. hadji murad posted:We did sign Tadanari Lee who having just played for Southampton in the BPL isn't a bargain signing. So I don't really understand the above comment. Lee is japanese. I guess some of your fellow reds fans may not agree though 
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Mar 18, 2014 08:14
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hadji murad posted:So I don't really understand the above comment. My ignorance is equalled only by my indifference.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:20
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Zo posted:Yeah a "good" response maybe if you ignore what they said when doling out the punishments. More of a standard political/corporate non-apology. You see it all the time, and while I can sort of see the logic behind never admitting to any sort of wrongdoing under any circumstances (like, if I squint real hard and turn my head sideways), I can't see how anyone who has need of them can fail to notice that that sort of bullshit actually makes the people you're supposedly apologizing to more angry.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:26
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Zo posted:Yeah a "good" response maybe if you ignore what they said when doling out the punishments. The Club said it was racist.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:28
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Ernie Muppari posted:More of a standard political/corporate non-apology. You see it all the time, and while I can sort of see the logic behind never admitting to any sort of wrongdoing under any circumstances (like, if I squint real hard and turn my head sideways), I can't see how anyone who has need of them can fail to notice that that sort of bullshit actually makes the people you're supposedly apologizing to more angry. I tend to agree with you, but this specific situation isn't even a corporation covering their own rear end - he's covering for racist fans and in a twisted sense blaming the victims for getting offended. Now the racists are more empowered since hey, it's not their fault that they are punished, it's the foreigners' faults for getting offended.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:31
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hadji murad posted:The Club said it was racist.
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Mar 18, 2014 08:33
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Zo posted:I tend to agree with you, but this specific situation isn't even a corporation covering their own rear end - he's covering for racist fans and in a twisted sense blaming the victims for getting offended. Well you wouldn't want to drive the racists away from future games now would you? 
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Mar 18, 2014 08:33
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Zo posted:Yeah a "good" response maybe if you ignore what they said when doling out the punishments. I dunno there, When you even have debito (dare not speak his name) saying it was a "watershed moment", now it may have been because it went viral and that forced the J League's hand into meeting out some punishment, but they didn't give them a slap on the face with a wet bus ticket, they used the harshest punishment available. It's a little step, but at least it is in the right direction.
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Mar 18, 2014 09:05
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Wibbleman posted:I dunno there, When you even have debito (dare not speak his name) saying it was a "watershed moment", now it may have been because it went viral and that forced the J League's hand into meeting out some punishment, but they didn't give them a slap on the face with a wet bus ticket, they used the harshest punishment available. Urawa has 8 supporter incidents including that which is 6 more than the next two (who each share one incident with Urawa) so this was long overdue. Though this incident was the first to get wide attention. The fans getting banned, a ban on flags and banners for the season and possibly more and closing the stadium for a game that would get a gate of over 30,000 people is a much bigger punishment than UEFA hands out to European teams for racist and xenophobic behaviour.
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Mar 18, 2014 10:58
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Ernie Muppari posted:I can't see how anyone who has need of them can fail to notice that that sort of bullshit actually makes the people you're supposedly apologizing to more angry. That's the point. Now they can go "well we apologized, I guess there is just no pleasing
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Mar 18, 2014 11:22
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Here is what Murai saidquote:“There are various interpretations of what constitutes discrimination, but the important thing is not the intention but the way it is perceived by the victim,” said J. League chairman Mitsuru Murai. “With that in mind, this case can be considered nothing other than discrimination and quote:Regarding the banner at Reds’ home game against first-division rivals Sagan Tosu that read, “Japanese only,” Murai said, “I recognize it as a racist expression.” And this was followed by a heavy punishment that will affect the team for years.
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Mar 18, 2014 12:01
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I hadn't seen that second quote reported. That's far less hand-wringy.
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Mar 18, 2014 12:19
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