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azflyboy posted:It's sounding like that US Airways Airbus that had the gear collapse in PHL a few days ago wasn't caused by a blown tire. Apparently the crew had a tailstrike on takeoff, and responded by shoving the nose down hard enough to completely collapse the nose gear. There's a photo taken showing the tail of the airplane with obvious damage from being dragged on a runway, and rumor is that the airplane is a total loss. Really? Everything else I've see has been pointing all over the place from tire problems to engine issues, but no one is talking about a tail strike that I can see or Google. And the passengers from that flight over on Flyertalk are making comments like 'As we speed down the runway for take off our plane had a huge shift/jerk to the left, at this time I think we were off ground or at least the very beginning of that. After that jerk I looked at my friend and said "that's not normal." Right after that we accelerated, which to me did not seem like the normal acceleration.' which doesn't sound like a tailstrike to me. Of course there's also passengers over there bitching about how the flight attendant were "frozen with panic" and wouldn't open the rear doors with the tail in the air so the evacuation slides wouldn't even make it to the ground.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:53
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azflyboy posted:This was the result of passengers failing to pay Delta the new $25 "aircraft assembly assurance" fee. Some of my colleagues at work were on that flight. I haven't been able to talk to them about it yet though. If I get any witness reports, I'll post em. Speaking of Philly, I'm in that area (Specifically KoP/Norristown) and I'm seriously considering getting my PPL. I've been thinking about it for a few years now, and I'm at least interested enough to throw some cash down at a discovery flight. I was talking to fellow Goon EvilJoven last night who was talking about which small strips might be nice for training based on their proximity to PHL and worrying about controlled airspace. Are there any goons here who trained/fly in the southeast PA region often, and could comment? Some of the ones we had looked at are:
JerikTelorian fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 18:00
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Discovery flights at different places is not a bad idea. You can try and get an idea of how different places run and see the different equipment they use. Also get experience with a few different instructors and see who clicks.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:32
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Didn't really like my experience at the cirrus place at wings field.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:46
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JerikTelorian posted:I haven't looked in NJ because I'd have to drive through the city proper which I avoid at nearly all cost. What's the sort of things I should be looking at while doing these? Is it an okay idea to go for a discovery flight at more than one? Should I wait to do a discovery flight until I've saved up money and am actually willing to start studying immediately, or is it cool for me to go now with the idea that I might try and start flying in summer if I like it? Learned to fly across the river in NJ at N14 Flying W; haven't flown into any of the airports you mention mostly because they're almost directly opposite the Philly class B airspace and a bit of pain to get to. Have driven over to Brandywine for an aviation seminar at the helicopter museum and it seemed like a nice airport. Visit them, see which one you prefer. Keeping in mind that most FBOs are completely terrible at initial customer contact with non-pilots. Find out how much they charge for the aircraft they rent and how much for instruction. I don't see a problem with doing a discovery flight with multiple FBOs, but I'd generally view the discovery flight as being about seeing if you like flying enough to pursue a pilot certificate and to see if you're ok with the instructor, but talking to the instructor might give a good hint at the latter. I don't see an issue with doing a discovery flight now to see if you want to save up, but I wouldn't start training unless you're going to be able to plan for and fund 2-3 flights a week (which will likely become 1-2 actual flights a week due to weather or other issues).
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Mar 18, 2014 18:55
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fordan posted:Really? Everything else I've see has been pointing all over the place from tire problems to engine issues, but no one is talking about a tail strike that I can see or Google. And the passengers from that flight over on Flyertalk are making comments like 'As we speed down the runway for take off our plane had a huge shift/jerk to the left, at this time I think we were off ground or at least the very beginning of that. After that jerk I looked at my friend and said "that's not normal." Right after that we accelerated, which to me did not seem like the normal acceleration.' which doesn't sound like a tailstrike to me. The tail strike discussion I've seen has been on a few aviation forums, and the posters are generally citing an internal US Airways investigation or saying they've talked to MX people there. Since it's the internet, I'd take that with a sizable grain of salt, but it seems somewhat more plausible than an aborted takeoff/blown tire collapsing the gear. I'm wondering if both stories aren't actually true, since it's plausible that the crew reacted to a blown tire poorly, leading to the tailstrike and gear collapse.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:06
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Anybody know anything about GAMA / Wheels Up? Help me not blow this King Air 350 sic phone interview, plz, thanks.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:25
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So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences?
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Mar 18, 2014 22:17
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the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? Mythbusters sorta did this. They flew a simulated 747 with radio support from a pilot who guided them in, and they said the biggest challenge would have been figuring out how to get radio contact with ATC or someone else who could help. It was called plausible, though they pointed out that it would probably not go smoothly in practice. Also, thanks for the advice on the Discovery flights, I think I'm going to save some cash and go out to the two cheaper strips for an intro in the next month or two.
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Mar 18, 2014 22:22
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the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? Not a 747, granted, but the principles are the same. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/13/florida.plane.emergency/
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Mar 18, 2014 23:19
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the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? Probably get the plane onto the ground, probably do some serious damage to it too. Someone with no experience would gently caress a 747 up pretty bad without autoland just from not flaring it properly. If you followed the visual clues that you were used to, you would probably fly the plane onto the runway at 800 fpm.
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Mar 18, 2014 23:37
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SCOTLAND posted:Probably get the plane onto the ground, probably do some serious damage to it too. Someone with no experience would gently caress a 747 up pretty bad without autoland just from not flaring it properly. If you followed the visual clues that you were used to, you would probably fly the plane onto the runway at 800 fpm. They'd probably certainly get talked into getting the plane down via auto-pilot and autoland if it were available. the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7WMQUDGDD4 And here's what happens when you don't have autopilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L63MA4kE6k8 She did a good job for an amateur in the above video, overall, however that landing would have significantly damaged that aircraft, if not destroyed it completely. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 23:48
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The Ferret King posted:They'd probably certainly get talked into getting the plane down via auto-pilot and autoland if it were available. I would think someone with a some time in small aircraft or computer flight sims as described could be talked down to a landing that didn't result in a write off. OTOH, any landing you can walk away from.
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Mar 19, 2014 00:26
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The controls are a lot heavier than you'd expect them to be. Maybe some could pull it off, but I had trouble in an MD-80 sim and I was already a private pilot when I got to try it.
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Mar 19, 2014 00:34
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azflyboy posted:The tail strike discussion I've seen has been on a few aviation forums, and the posters are generally citing an internal US Airways investigation or saying they've talked to MX people there. Since it's the internet, I'd take that with a sizable grain of salt, but it seems somewhat more plausible than an aborted takeoff/blown tire collapsing the gear. They hosed it up, but good. Probably an FMS entry error that caused them to try and rotate way before true Vr. Check those decimals carefully, Folks. 
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Mar 19, 2014 00:36
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The Ferret King posted:The controls are a lot heavier than you'd expect them to be. Maybe some could pull it off, but I had trouble in an MD-80 sim and I was already a private pilot when I got to try it. Yeah, ok that's the kind of thing that could lead to a hosed up plane even with a good briefing.
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Mar 19, 2014 00:43
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Why does the news keep saying that the Malaysian flight had to have been reprogrammed via the FMC. What evidence is there for that? It changed course?
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Mar 19, 2014 00:44
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CharlesM posted:Why does the news keep saying that the Malaysian flight had to have been reprogrammed via the FMC. What evidence is there for that? It changed course? Because they want to believe it was the terrorists. They are also 100% sure that the plane was reprogrammed to fly via waypoints and not just the completely more plausible AP ON HDG HLD. I guess CNN already found the data recorder 
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Mar 19, 2014 01:36
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I still think the best theory out there right now is this one, but since it's not completely insane and THE PLANE ISN'T COMING TO KILL YOUR FAMILY in that scenario it hasn't been getting much play time with the media. At least not that I've seen. I guess if you're going to speculate you might as well just go buck wild with it.
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Mar 19, 2014 02:03
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Here's a theory: Something started an electrical fire. The crew started turning off electrical systems to stop the fire which is why the transponder stopped transmitting. The crew then started to turn back to mainland but was overcome by fumes and passed out. Even with the autopilot off the airplane would probably be stable enough to hold more or less a steady heading. Eventually the plane slow climbed to 45,000' where it stalled out. During the stall it's stability would be greatly reduced and there may have been a wing drop which made it look like someone was maneuvering the plane. Eventually the plane recovers on it's own but not before losing 20,000+ feet. Depending on how it was trimmed the plane would go through multiple stall/recovery cycles. This theory accounts for: -The transponder turning off -The turn back towards land -The reported altitude deviations -The appearance of heading changes On the U.S. Airways thing: Tail striking an a320 on takeoff requires some serious effort. I can see it happening on a 321* but you really have to try on a 320. I wonder if there was a CG problem? *U.S. Airways 321's have placards next to each PFD with the words "A321 TAIL STRIKE CAUTION" written in big red letters. Edit: Previous post was made while I was writing mine. I guess I'm not the only one thinking along those lines. KodiakRS fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 02:22
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Well  is currently convinced that the aircraft had already made it's left turn prior to the copilot's final radio call.. You know, before the transponder went dark and they lost both primary and secondary radar contact. I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed. 
SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 02:25
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fknlo posted:I still think the best theory out there right now is this one, Any opinions on this response to it? http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/03/18/mh370_disappearance_chris_goodfellow_s_theory_about_a_fire_and_langkawi.html
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Mar 19, 2014 02:33
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Actually, reddit solved the mystery
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Mar 19, 2014 02:51
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Have you ever been so loving high that you just left the gravitational pull of the earth? Also, the slate article does a good job disproving the dude's screwball theories about what might have happened to the pilots, but it doesn't at all address the possibility of an electrical fire ruining equipment, and necessitating an emergency return to land. It just says that the pilots passing out from the smoke is unlikely, and claims the entire thing as "debunked".
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Mar 19, 2014 04:33
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Captain Bravo posted:Have you ever been so loving high that you just left the gravitational pull of the earth? Don't forget the "facts" that it did X after X as well! Because that's not just pure speculation like literally 99% of the information out there right now. Absolutely nothing will be known until they find the plane, I'll stick with the somewhat reasonable scenarios until then. poo poo like "Becoming one with a Singapore 777 so that there was only one radar blip!!!", and "Traveled 6000 miles at 5000 feet to avoid radar!!!", and "They climbed to FL450 to knock out the passengers!!!" are loving retarded and shouldn't be getting the discussion they are.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:40
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the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htg0VKt3j_w
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Mar 19, 2014 05:03
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xaarman posted:Actually, reddit solved the mystery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHoOBaDA5Fo
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Mar 19, 2014 05:08
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the posted:So, hypothetical, let's say you had your private license to fly some sort of small plane like a Cessna. You're on a commercial flight on a 747 and something goes catastrophically wrong: Both pilots die of heart attacks. Would you most likely be able to land the plane or are there huge differences? Too many variables. Private license with 1000 hours on a small twin like a Baron, and you're instrument rated? Or private license as in you have 40 hours on a 152? What sort of an airliner - big turboprop with no autoland or autothrust, relatively manually-controlled autopilot etc.? Or Airbus with autoland, and you're being told exactly how to configure it? What's the weather - how do you plan on finding the airport if you're in or above thick cloud and you aren't used to using GPS/FMS/autopilot use, let alone being IFR-experienced? Could the average private pilot land an airliner, as in physically flare and touch down, without crashing it? Sure, why not. But could the average private pilot safely bring in an airliner from flight levels, get it set up on an approach, fully configure the aircraft as required without exceeding any limitations, as well as land it safely - without guidance? No. brendanwor fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 14:07
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JerikTelorian posted:Some of my colleagues at work were on that flight. I haven't been able to talk to them about it yet though. If I get any witness reports, I'll post em. A little late on this, and old anecdotal evidence, but I did PPL training at Brandywine back in 2004 and loved it. Fun little airport, and seeing one of the V-22 prototypes on landing is always fun. Assuming that nothing has changed in ~10 years, both Chester County and Brandywine schools do their training in the farmland area west of Downingtown and south of Pottstown. I never encountered Philly traffic, and airliners are usually ~10k feet over that part of airspace so you don't risk bumping into them. Chester County has an ILS and a longer runway, so it's more forgiving, while Brandywine is a bit narrow and short but nothing too bad.
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Mar 20, 2014 20:59
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brendanwor posted:Too many variables. Private license with 1000 hours on a small twin like a Baron, and you're instrument rated? Or private license as in you have 40 hours on a 152? What sort of an airliner - big turboprop with no autoland or autothrust, relatively manually-controlled autopilot etc.? Or Airbus with autoland, and you're being told exactly how to configure it? What's the weather - how do you plan on finding the airport if you're in or above thick cloud and you aren't used to using GPS/FMS/autopilot use, let alone being IFR-experienced? I think it depends a lot on the plane, and the level of automation within it. Most private pilots could at least get in contact with ATC, who would get a check airman on that aircraft on the phone, patch them in, and then it depends a lot on the experience level of that pilot. So, you're right, lots of variables, but I think that many of them could get the plane down fine albeit it's probably going to be a hard landing requiring an evac.
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Mar 21, 2014 01:02
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Well I might not be a commercial pilot, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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Mar 21, 2014 03:40
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e.pilot posted:Well I might not be a commercial pilot, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I am a commercial pilot, which means I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
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Mar 21, 2014 05:10
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Haha, only pilots can walk up to one another and say "you smell like Holiday Inn" and have it make any sense. (For non aviation people: they have these little citrus dispensers in most of the lobby's that automatically dispense it every 15 minutes or something. It's subtle, but you notice it.)
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Mar 21, 2014 06:05
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Hooray! First flight in like two goddamned weeks today! gently caress you post surgical infection and flu!
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Mar 21, 2014 12:08
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KodiakRS posted:I am a 
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Mar 22, 2014 03:54
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By "EconoLodge" you mean "In the lobby of an EconoLodge" right?
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Mar 22, 2014 04:04
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ausgezeichnet posted:They hosed it up, but good. Probably an FMS entry error that caused them to try and rotate way before true Vr. Check those decimals carefully, Folks. Christ, they must have started hiring students from my flight school (we've had 10 tailstrikes in the last 6 months. Avemco is trying to ditch everyone's policies  )hailthefish posted:By "EconoLodge" you mean "In the lobby of an EconoLodge" right? nah he probably means one of the
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Mar 22, 2014 07:05
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hailthefish posted:By "EconoLodge" you mean "In the lobby of an EconoLodge" right? SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 07:06
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bunnyofdoom posted:Hooray! First flight in like two goddamned weeks today! gently caress you post surgical infection and flu!  I broke a 6 month break yesterday and got checked out in my new club's 177.
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Mar 22, 2014 14:23
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hailthefish posted:By "EconoLodge" you mean "In the lobby of an EconoLodge" right? Still surprised regionals don't have you sleep on the plane to save $50.
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Mar 22, 2014 15:17
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