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Mar 18, 2014 07:25
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Sunshine89 posted:I don't know if it's a sign that I'm completely hosed in the head and it probably reads as pathetic as I feel typing it, but more than anything else, I'd love for someone to just hold me, while I hold her- and wake up the same way. It's not a sign that you're completely hosed in the head. Don't be so hard on yourself. Almost everyone likes feeling loved and giving love.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:43
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Sunshine89 posted:I don't know if it's a sign that I'm completely hosed in the head and it probably reads as pathetic as I feel typing it, but more than anything else, I'd love for someone to just hold me, while I hold her- and wake up the same way. Snuggles are good times. You're not hosed up 
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Mar 18, 2014 08:46
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can't believe this thread is still going
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Mar 18, 2014 09:02
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And the op's probated so we can't even tell if they're able to take advantage of the very informative data we've provided.
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Mar 18, 2014 11:07
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Sunshine89 posted:I don't know if it's a sign that I'm completely hosed in the head and it probably reads as pathetic as I feel typing it, but more than anything else, I'd love for someone to just hold me, while I hold her- and wake up the same way. Nothing wrong with that at all. Its one of my favorite feelings when I'm curled up with someone, her body fitting perfectly against mine and her head on my chest as we sleep/wake up. I'm sure you'll experience it one day soon, there's someone for everyone out there.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:25
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Emulator posted:there's someone for everyone out there. This is sort of true, in the sense that most people who think "I am unlovable" are underestimating their own capacity for change, but it's not like a natural law or anything. Some of the people who are alive now will surely die without ever being loved by anyone.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:18
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That's always felt like a dumb thing to say. Yea, sure if i managed to change myself in all the ways necessary to make myself suck less then there'd probably be someone out there for me too, but that's not gonna happen, so there definitely isn't. Some people just suck and there's nobody out there for them. Also what if the person for you is on a different continent or something, you'll never even meet them, that's no help at all.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:32
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ChairMaster posted:Also what if the person for you is on a different continent or something, you'll never even meet them, that's no help at all. 1. It's not literally one person for each person on the planet. 2. Fate isn't just going to guide your special someone to your apartment. "There's someone for everyone" is all about how many different kinds of people there are, and the different tastes they have. Some people like athletic types, some like geeky bookworms, some even like shut-in WoW-playing dorks. There's surely someone who'll like you too, but you have to actually meet them. If you can socialize with someone of the same gender, you can socialize with someone of the opposite gender. Do more of that. And if you think that you suck so much that you can't even maintain ordinary friendships or social interaction so what's the point, then for your sake YEAH you should be working on fixing that. If you don't actually want to change anything and want to just wallow, then it sounds like your problem's already solved?
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Mar 18, 2014 21:51
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ChairMaster posted:That's always felt like a dumb thing to say. Yea, sure if i managed to change myself in all the ways necessary to make myself suck less then there'd probably be someone out there for me too, but that's not gonna happen, so there definitely isn't. Some people just suck and there's nobody out there for them. It's very easy to meet men/women who you want to date and want to date you as long as you're experiencing existing social relationships and venture outside of your basement regularly. If you have no friends and refuse to leave your home, you have many issues to address in your life beyond finding a romantic partner. That self-defeatist attitude is why you think there's "nobody" out there for you, which is patently false. It's also why you seem to not be enjoying your life. Everyone dates the types of individuals they're interested in, which includes you and all other goons in this godawful thread. As long as you're willing to engage other human beings in conversation, there are potentially many people out there for you. You seem to think there's some magical solution to your issues too. Even if a person has much of their life together, they never find their long-term partner overnight. You have to work at it, and that includes forging non-romantic relationships. Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 22:16
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ChairMaster posted:That's always felt like a dumb thing to say. Yea, sure if i managed to change myself in all the ways necessary to make myself suck less then there'd probably be someone out there for me too, but that's not gonna happen, so there definitely isn't. Some people just suck and there's nobody out there for them. The way you're conceptualizing every part of this-- not just this post, but this whole topic-- is hosed, and you might wanna consider being open to changing your ways of thinking about this stuff, considering where it's gotten you. I do this too, probably everyone does, so I can empathize big time, but it's funny how a person can simultaneously think they are the most hosed up vile idiot around and yet have 100% confidence in their own judgment of this. One real good reason to socialize, which it sounds like you're not doing, is so your understanding of things is not like unduly mitigated by the unbelievably lovely culture of internet comments and forum posts. Constant exposure to glib, bitchy backbiting is just going to wreck your self-image and jaundice your view of human interaction. You'll never feel inside the way you think "normalcy" or "sucking less" or whatever looks from the outside! That's a front; that's all the deeper that like TV comedies or meme pics or the PYF Mongoloids and Diabetics thread need to dig but that's not what any person's subjective sense of self is like! Everyone's "broken" like this dumb rear end forum likes to say, everyone's imperfect and hosed and kind of winging it. If there's anything you NEED to change it's probably this sense of yourself as a burdened piece of poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2014 22:29
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Yeah, the idea isn't "one true love"(look at any data about how many people settle down with people nearby instead of moving far away for love), the idea is "within any large enough population there will be a large enough subset of 'people you're attracted to' that people also attracted to you exist within that subset. find them." And don't consider changing yourself impossible. Anyone can change to at least some degree, because everyone changes at least a little all the time-all you gotta do is try and direct how you change, by exercising, socializing, taking up new hobbies etc.
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Mar 18, 2014 22:30
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ChairMaster posted:That's always felt like a dumb thing to say. Yea, sure if i managed to change myself in all the ways necessary to make myself suck less then there'd probably be someone out there for me too, but that's not gonna happen, so there definitely isn't. Some people just suck and there's nobody out there for them. if you are bound and determined and extremely persistent about sucking then yeah, but that sounds more like voluntary celibacy to me.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:06
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Killer Queen posted:It's very easy to meet men/women who you want to date and want to date you as long as you're experiencing existing social relationships and venture outside of your basement regularly. This is actually not true though, there are a myriad of reasons (many expressed in this thread) that people might find it easy to form social relationships and not find it easy to form romantic ones. EDIT: Myriad's the wrong word, I should've just said 'lots'. Let's pretend I did that.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:19
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Emulator posted:Nothing wrong with that at all. Its one of my favorite feelings when I'm curled up with someone, her body fitting perfectly against mine and her head on my chest as we sleep/wake up. I'm sure you'll experience it one day soon, there's someone for everyone out there. I'm fat, so her body kind of fits around mine. but yeah, it's still a cool feeling. My moobs make great pillows apparently.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:46
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cuckold cleanup posted:can't believe this thread is still going is this the new de facto virgoon thread now
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Mar 19, 2014 08:29
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MONKET posted:is this the new de facto virgoon thread now Pretty much. We even have some trolls and  . All we need are some permabans and we're set.Chairchucker posted:This is actually not true though, there are a myriad of reasons (many expressed in this thread) that people might find it easy to form social relationships and not find it easy to form romantic ones. At this point, we've reached the " bootstrap" phase of an E/N thread. Taking care of your poo poo and being a social savant won't guarantee intimacy; it only increases the chances of intimacy. Still, I subscribe to the Dan Savage school of thought in that there is a real possibility of a lonely life, so we are doomed to try, and we are supposed to take solace in that. Make of that what you will.
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Mar 19, 2014 11:27
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Oh its definitely the new virgoon thread. Luckily so far, apart from the one dude trying to bang his teenage neighbour, the thread has been pretty light on the massive creeps and weirdos (Rape speed, John Stalvern anyone?)
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Mar 19, 2014 11:41
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IronicDongz posted:Yeah, the idea isn't "one true love"(look at any data about how many people settle down with people nearby instead of moving far away for love), the idea is "within any large enough population there will be a large enough subset of 'people you're attracted to' that people also attracted to you exist within that subset. find them." And don't consider changing yourself impossible. Anyone can change to at least some degree, because everyone changes at least a little all the time-all you gotta do is try and direct how you change, by exercising, socializing, taking up new hobbies etc. Given any person, you can tell some story where they improve themselves and find love, but that's mostly a reflection of your ability to tell stories. At least some people will die alone this year, just like every other year before or since. ejstheman fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 14:20
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean their chances of finding love were zero and if they did things differently they may very well have done so. That's a stupid, defeatist attitude to have and it will only make things harder.
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Mar 19, 2014 14:50
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IronicDongz posted:Yeah, but that doesn't mean their chances of finding love were zero and if they did things differently they may very well have done so. That's a stupid, defeatist attitude to have and it will only make things harder. Except for the "stupid" part, and an esoteric objection to the bit about probability that this isn't the forum to explain, I agree. I'm not saying people shouldn't try to better themselves and their relationships; I'm just saying that there's this idiotic meme that success is guaranteed by sufficient effort, and it's mostly a way for successful people to avoid feeling bad about the existence of unsuccessful people. It's their own fault, you see, in love as in money, and that's why everything is fine. Neglectful parents never really taught you to have adult relationships? Bootstraps! On the autism spectrum? Bootstraps! Super ugly? Bootstraps!
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Mar 19, 2014 15:28
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The idea that you are guaranteed to be lonely forever and cannot do anything about it is indeed stupid and that's what I was talking about.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:38
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IronicDongz posted:The idea that you are guaranteed to be lonely forever and cannot do anything about it is indeed stupid and that's what I was talking about. I'm not talking about this in such a personal sense. Anyone who claims such knowledge about themselves is grossly overestimating the quality of the information they have. If what you meant was, "you can't know that you'll always be lonely," and not, "there is definitely stuff you can do to not be lonely anymore," then my bad for replying to your post as opposed to someone else's. In my defense, there are tons of people who watch too many movies and think that second thing.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:47
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Hahaha suggesting that somebody improve their outlook by modifying their lifestyle to become more healthy and in line with other successful human beings is totally the same thing as telling somebody to do something that is literally impossible If you think that getting people to like you shouldn't contain some element of effort I've got some seriously bad news for you
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Mar 19, 2014 15:49
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Not a Children posted:Hahaha suggesting that somebody improve their outlook by modifying their lifestyle to become more healthy and in line with other successful human beings is totally the same thing as telling somebody to do something that is literally impossible I don't remember anybody saying that meeting people should be effort free in this thread. Who are you responding to?
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Mar 19, 2014 15:52
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You're using a false equivalency. Telling somebody to go outside and maybe pick up a hobby or two and meet people is nothing like being told to work hard and thanklessly until you get rich or die trying One of those is genuinely decent advice that works for most people
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Mar 19, 2014 16:01
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ejstheman posted:Neglectful parents never really taught you to have adult relationships? Bootstraps! On the autism spectrum? Bootstraps! Super ugly? Bootstraps! You chose poo poo examples and ruined your own point. How to have an adult relationship can be learned post-childhood. And why can't someone on the spectrum find someone else on the spectrum who understands them? Why wouldn't an ugly person be able to find someone roughly equally ugly to love?
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Mar 19, 2014 16:12
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Cursed Lumberjack posted:You chose poo poo examples and ruined your own point. How to have an adult relationship can be learned post-childhood. And why can't someone on the spectrum find someone else on the spectrum who understands them? Why wouldn't an ugly person be able to find someone roughly equally ugly to love? I'm not making a universal statement, so nothing you're saying here really contradicts me. I'm sure in a world of seven billion people, all kinds of things happen at least some of the time. I'm objecting to the universal statement implied in "all you gotta do is...", because those things may or may not be all you gotta do. You may not have to do anything. There may be nothing you can do. You may need to do something that isn't one of those things. There is no method that guarantees success or even reliably indicates whether it is possible. ejstheman fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 16:31
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What's your point? Is this a defense of people who don't even try, or are you being pedantic, or what?
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Mar 19, 2014 16:37
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Obviously finding love isn't guaranteed because nothing is guaranteed. Some kids are horribly abused by their parents and die in childhood, without ever experiencing love. However, we are talking about goons, who have the capacity to use the internet. This implies they aren't severely mentally handicapped, have enough money to afford the internet, and live in a decent country with internet that also has access to counselling services. Going to therapy and online dating will almost definitely help you find someone and you will most likely enter a romantic relationship. I understand that being depressed and having low self-worth makes you think no one will ever love you, but that's false. If you can work through your issues to realize you are worthy of love and gather the courage to put yourself out there, you can find people who will want to be with you.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:43
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Spiffo posted:What's your point? Is this a defense of people who don't even try, or are you being pedantic, or what? He is like this in a lot of threads so I think he just likes arguing and playing devil's advocate.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:44
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Spiffo posted:What's your point? Is this a defense of people who don't even try, or are you being pedantic, or what? That probably depends on whether you think it's pedantic to object to a universal statement that's usually true. I don't, but I realize that a lot of people do.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:10
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ejstheman posted:That probably depends on whether you think it's pedantic to object to a universal statement that's usually true. I don't, but I realize that a lot of people do. When I post the "Yes, but technically" megathread I'll let you know
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Mar 19, 2014 17:16
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Virgins: woe is me I will be lonely forever Non virgins: it's ok you will find someone maybe you should join a club you find interesting or take up a neat hobby then you will make friends and maybe eventually a nice romantic friend you can do it Virgins: no don't make universal statements I will be lonely forever just because it works most of the time in this world of seven billion people doesn't mean it will work for me Non virgins: no man trust me I was awkward and weird for a long time then I decided to join a club now I have a social life and I am happier Virgins: yeah well it won't work for me Ad nauseum.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:56
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Starter Wiggin posted:Virgins: woe is me I will be lonely forever Yes, if those depressed and/or anxious people would just be more logical like me, then they wouldn't have those problems they have. Why don't they see? Really, my trivial frustration with the lack of accolades for my lovely advice is the main point, here. Like, being depressed sucks, obviously, so why don't they try NOT being depressed? Edit: I realize that what I'm basically saying here is "if people need therapy and you're not a therapist, shut the gently caress up," and that if everyone followed that advice consistently this subforum wouldn't exist.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:02
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Spiffo posted:What's your point? Is this a defense of people who don't even try, or are you being pedantic, or what? There's really no other advice to give though, you can either keep trying or you can take your balls and go home.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:12
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ejstheman posted:Really, my trivial frustration with the lack of accolades for my lovely advice is the main point, here. Like, being depressed sucks, obviously, so why don't they try NOT being depressed?
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Mar 19, 2014 18:20
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ejstheman posted:Yes, if those depressed and/or anxious people would just be more logical like me, then they wouldn't have those problems they have. Why don't they see? Really, my trivial frustration with the lack of accolades for my lovely advice is the main point, here. Like, being depressed sucks, obviously, so why don't they try NOT being depressed? Therapy has already been called for in this thread. It's called for by default by posting in e/n. And people get pissy if you suggest it AGAIN because either they know, they're in it, they tried it and it didn't work, or they refuse to try it. I don't think anyone here is unaware of therapy as an option. But yes, please reduce everything to "bootstraps" so you can knock it down in one sweeping statement and not try anymore. There is a distinct difference between "bootstraps" and "make an effort to do something to improve your life, whether it is therapy, joining a club, walking, whatever".
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Mar 19, 2014 18:24
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ArbitraryC posted:I think really the core of his point is just that some people will try and fail no matter how hard they try. For employment as an example there's simply less available jobs than there are people who want them. Even if everyone followed every piece of bootstraps advice, some would get left behind. This can make self improvement advice come across as condescending and just generally unhelpful particularly if you feel like you got stuck with way more hoops to jump through than your peers. Exactly. This forum has a lot of people who don't get depression at all yelling at depressed people, and even building up elaborate mythologies of how depressed people are SO ANNOYING and UGH it's like they do it ON PURPOSE just to gently caress with you. If someone's depressed and you don't want to actually offer them support, that's fine. More than 100,000 people will die today (just like every other day), and the only way that isn't a crushing burden to think about is that it's actually really easy not to care about strangers' problems. But I'm not obliged to pretend that not-helping is helping just because helping is really hard.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:24
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ArbitraryC posted:I think really the core of his point is just that some people will try and fail no matter how hard they try. For employment as an example there's simply less available jobs than there are people who want them. Even if everyone followed every piece of bootstraps advice, some would get left behind. This can make self improvement advice come across as condescending and just generally unhelpful particularly if you feel like you got stuck with way more hoops to jump through than your peers. yeah but as we said earlier, love isn't an economic system. not everyone can date Scarlett Johannson, sure, but it's not like there's a limited amount of love to go around. it's not a zero-sum game. elderly people with declining mental capacities and physical disabilities manage to get it on and have relationships. in capitalism, there are economic losers and winners by definition. this isn't the case with relationships because being happy with a partner does not rely on being with the most beautiful or richest person, but on having support, communication, and love.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:25
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