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Not to beat a dead horse, but I think Steve Almond hit at least a solid triple in his takedown of Stewart and Colbert found in The Baffler. A few choice bits: quote:Consider, in this context, Stewart’s coverage of the Occupy Wall Street movement. His initial segment highlighted the hypocrisy of those who portrayed the protestors in Zuccotti Park as lawless and menacing while praising Tea Party rallies as quintessentially patriotic. But Stewart was careful to include a caveat: “I mean, look, if this thing turns into throwing trash cans into Starbucks windows, nobody’s gonna be down with that,” he said, alluding to vandalism by activists during a 1999 World Trade Organization summit. Stewart then leaned toward the camera and said, in his best guilty-liberal stage whisper, “We all love Starbucks.” The audience laughed approvingly. Protests for economic justice are worthy of our praise, just so long as they don’t take aim at our luxuries. The show later sent two correspondents down to Zuccotti Park. One highlighted the various “weirdos” on display. The other played up the alleged class divisions within those occupying the park. Both segments trivialized the movement by playing to right-wing stereotypes of protestors as self-indulgent neo-hippies. quote:By contrast, consider the late Bill Hicks, a stand-up comedian of the same approximate vintage as Stewart and Colbert. “You never see my attitude in the press,” Hicks once observed. “For instance, gays in the military. . . . Gays who want to be in the military. Here’s how I feel about it, alright? Anyone dumb enough to want to be in the military should be allowed in. End of loving story. That should be the only requirement. I don’t care how many pushups you can do. Put on a helmet, go wait in that foxhole, we’ll tell you when we need you to kill somebody. . . . I watched these loving congressional hearings and all these military guys and the pundits, ‘Seriously, aww, the esprit de corps will be affected, and we are such a moral’—excuse me! Aren’t y’all loving hired killers? Shut up! You are thugs and when we need you to go blow the gently caress out of a nation of little brown people, we’ll let you know. . . . I don’t want any gay people hanging around me while I’m killing kids!” http://www.thebaffler.com/past/the_jokes_on_you Pretty lengthy article but well worth the read. If capitalist cultural hegemony were an onion, Colbert and Stewart may well occupy the very outside layer, but they are still part of the onion. As others have pointed out, they have a tendency to shy away from endorsing truly left-wing sentiment, Occupy being a perfect example. I think it's pretty easy to see that they are both firm centrists who inadvertently act as a sort of release valve, allowing the steam of left-wing populist sentiment to escape and dissipate before it damages the machinery of capitalism. Can you imagine what would have happened if they had given a full-throated endorsement to Occupy? I mean, they only speak to nearly a whole generation.
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Mar 19, 2014 02:27
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*kicks down the door in a huff* Damnit Jon! God drat him! He let em down! All the shorties checking out late nite Comedy Central looking for anti-cap truth bombs, the power of proletarian rhetoric, and a brutal takedown of America's bullshit on the same day that 3000 people were murdered and nobody had any loving clue what was going on. It's a shame. A crying shame we got this motherfucker running Rupublitard clip montages while global capitalism wipes its brow knowing Jon Stewart won't bring it down with a zinger and a jewy mug + tie waggle. gently caress me to death folks, gimme The Baffler because Jacobin wasn't haughty enough last quarter
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Mar 19, 2014 02:54
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I think his criticism of stewart's show right after 9/11 is dumb. thousands of people died.was he supposed to go on an anti capitalist rant? Decry american foreign policy? Should he have blamed the victims?
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Mar 19, 2014 03:07
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I agree that that bit is a little over the top and is undoubtedly a cheap shot, but I think he's got a legitimate beef when he criticizes Stewart's juxtaposition of the Twin Towers and the Statue of Liberty. He kinda goes off the reservation after that. He's not saying that Stewart and Colbert aren't funny, just that their politics are questionable and are part of the same old "truth is somewhere in the middle" bullshit that CNN has become expert at peddling. People are claiming that they speak truth to power, but really they don't except in rare moments like the WH Correspondent's Dinner or the Jim Cramer thing. The "moral danger" here, if you could call it that, is that many people consider them news sources who are willing to expose the bullshit, but they are really just papering over it. Folks who would otherwise be receptive to a legitimate criticism of the way our politics or markets work are instead getting a sanitized, "common sense" version that they are mistaking for some sort of sick burn on American politics/economics. Instead of giving Wall Street, Republicans, lobbyists, centrist Democrats, etc. the middle finger, Stewart and Colbert are merely sticking out their tongues. And "they're just comedians" isn't a legitimate excuse, hence the Bill Hicks comparison. Your Sledgehammer fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 03:18
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Would the far left like Jon Stewart if every show ended with him shouting "Death to Viacom! Now here it is, your moment of zen."
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Mar 19, 2014 03:23
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Yea I'm real mad this guy who is on a major entertainment network owned by a huge media conglomerate doesn't do more takedowns of capitalism, where else am I, the idiot who uses his politics as a shock tactic like a thirteen year old, supposed to get my up to date news about the struggle? edit: like yea man I get annoyed when he hugs and high fives right wing shitheads like ha ha just kidding we're buddies but the idea that he has some kinda moral obligation to be a cartoon communist is a pretty stupid one considering, you know, who you're asking this of. It's not his fault idiots think he's not a clown, he has everything but the bright red nose. Bill Hicks is a terrible example because his whole shtick, every bit of his act, is about him being a bitter, angry, piece of poo poo who hates everyone, how can you even compare that to Stewart and Colbert's style? sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 03:25
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Alright, so maybe Hicks is a bad example. The point still stands that what Stewart and Colbert peddle is centrist, lowest common denominator satire, and it doesn't have to be. Hunter S. Thompson was a journalist wearing a comedian's mask, where Stewart and Colbert are the opposite, but he probably makes a better comparison. Like Stewart and Colbert, he worked for a major American media institution. Also like them, he had access to the people at the very top of the food chain. Despite all that, he actually managed to speak truth to power and be somewhat of a voice for everyday people, as batshit crazy as he was. He managed to be both more insightful and more funny than Stewart or Colbert ever have been. I recognize that Stewart and Colbert work for Comedy Central, but that doesn't mean that folks shouldn't expect better of both their politics and their humor. Seriously, just look at the poo poo show that was "The Rally to Restore Sanity" or whatever they were calling it. You really going to sit over there and say they didn't totally blow that opportunity and vastly underutilize their platform? The only further point that Steve Almond was making is that the sort of maudlin centrism on display at that rally also informs pretty much everything in their shows if you look hard enough, and there is no reason that they couldn't be more edgy, or that their viewers shouldn't expect more of them. Your Sledgehammer fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 03:42
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I think his beef is more with the idea that Stewart and Colbert are viewed as heroes of the left fighting against the establishment than trying to say they have some sort of obligation to poo poo talk capitalism constantly. He's more saying "hey these guys are phonies hawking sanitized, faux rage against the machine that encourages complacency and apathy" than "they should be more like Bill Hicks." I mean I think he wishes they were more like Bill Hicks, but I don't think he's saying thy should be. And I think it's a valid point to make. For better or worse, Jon Stewart is basically king of the leftists as far as American political discourse, and that's pretty drat pathetic. The right has a dozen assholes who will scream their loving heads off about any goddamn thing and it connects with their base, whereas the left is forced to relying on milquetoast smugness because the idea of getting angry and impassioned about something is seemingly beneath the disaffected nature of American liberalism.
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Mar 19, 2014 03:51
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Well, I mean, the guy IS a centrist Democratic type. He's not choosing to play that, that's his actual views. It's like being mad that Shepard Smith is a centrist Republican even though sometimes he says things against Fox's grain. This is just what he is, if people respond to that they're responding to him. It's kinda nuts to act like he should put on an act to appeal to a fringe represented by a shock politics writer.
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Mar 19, 2014 03:59
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Well, I mean, the guy IS a centrist Democratic type. He's not choosing to play that, that's his actual views. It's like being mad that Shepard Smith is a centrist Republican even though sometimes he says things against Fox's grain. This is just what he is, if people respond to that they're responding to him. It's kinda nuts to act like he should put on an act to appeal to a fringe represented by a shock politics writer. Again, nobody said he should. It's just frustrating that a centrist Democrat is considered the voice of the American far left in the larger political discourse. Conservatives get their center right and their far right and their far far right voices, and liberals get Jon Stewart. I have no idea what your personal politics are beyond vehemently contrarian, but it gets tiresome being left in America and not really having a true voice in the discussion because the farthest left the moneyed interests will allow is guys like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:08
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Typical Pubbie posted:Would the far left like Jon Stewart if every show ended with him shouting "Death to Viacom! Now here it is, your moment of zen." I like him now, I've liked him since like 1990 when he was doing random late shows. But his shtick has always been to be the super well-educated young Jewish guy who doesn't understand why they can't just get along in the Middle East? Why with all the rockets and the bombing, why not falafel, our people's shared heritage etc. But yeah, the Daily Show is a show like all the other ones he's done, it's comedy, it has limitations. It is amazing even now, but it's supposed to be a supplement to a diet of real news. God help you if it's your entire intake of current events for the day.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:13
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Your Sledgehammer posted:Alright, so maybe Hicks is a bad example. The point still stands that what Stewart and Colbert peddle is centrist, lowest common denominator satire, and it doesn't have to be.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:42
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CNN has absolutely fallen to pieces, as far as I can tell, and is an absolute mockery of the concept of news at this point, so that's rich ground for the kind of segments that make up the bulk of what Jon Stewart does. ("Good thing, or bad thing?")
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Mar 19, 2014 04:51
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Making fun of CNN is like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:58
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Again, nobody said he should. It's just frustrating that a centrist Democrat is considered the voice of the American far left in the larger political discourse. What sort of morons consider John Daily the voice of the American far left?
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Mar 19, 2014 05:12
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Install Windows posted:What sort of morons consider John Daily the voice of the American far left?
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Mar 19, 2014 05:15
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Install Windows posted:What sort of morons consider John Daily the voice of the American far left? Right, it's not his fault people have a silly view of him. He has never claimed to be any movement voice except for that dumb "gee can we just be nicer" rally he did.
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Mar 19, 2014 05:19
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Again, nobody said he should. It's just frustrating that a centrist Democrat is considered the voice of the American far left in the larger political discourse. Conservatives get their center right and their far right and their far far right voices, and liberals get Jon Stewart. I have no idea what your personal politics are beyond vehemently contrarian, but it gets tiresome being left in America and not really having a true voice in the discussion because the farthest left the moneyed interests will allow is guys like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher. Conservatives will no doubt point out Michael Moore, who literally calls himself a democratic socialist, but when's the last time that guy did anything? Also, it's become fashionable to hate him, even if you're a leftist (for some good reasons, of course). Also, Maher doesn't even like being called a liberal, the last time I checked.
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Mar 19, 2014 05:32
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ProperGanderPusher posted:Conservatives will no doubt point out Michael Moore, who literally calls himself a democratic socialist, but when's the last time that guy did anything? Also, it's become fashionable to hate him, even if you're a leftist (for some good reasons, of course). Left-wing ideologues on the whole probably don't give you any better reasons to hate them than right-wing ideologues do. The problem is that the left is willing to admit their ideologues are flawed but the right doesn't. I hate to use the "shut up and stop clapping" argument but leftists are self-defeating to the point where anyone who would claim to represent them either decide it's not worth the trouble or become a bipartisan laughingstock in a way that Bill O'Reilly never has to worry about in his life.
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Mar 19, 2014 05:49
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Again, nobody said he should. It's just frustrating that a centrist Democrat is considered the voice of the American far left in the larger political discourse. Conservatives get their center right and their far right and their far far right voices, and liberals get Jon Stewart. I have no idea what your personal politics are beyond vehemently contrarian, but it gets tiresome being left in America and not really having a true voice in the discussion because the farthest left the moneyed interests will allow is guys like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher. You know what - maybe it's a good sign for liberalism. Maybe true leftists aren't especially eager to participate in media because it's such a loving clownshow. Just like American culture, just like American politics. It's such a terminally bad, ridiculous environment why would any sane person want to participate?
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Mar 19, 2014 07:47
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beatlegs posted:You know what - maybe it's a good sign for liberalism. Maybe true leftists aren't especially eager to participate in media because it's such a loving clownshow. Just like American culture, just like American politics. It's such a terminally bad, ridiculous environment why would any sane person want to participate? Yeah but the media is where probably like 90% of the population gets all of its information about politics and the world in general. The reason the right can get away with calling Obama a radical socialist, aside from their base being stupid as gently caress, is because he really is as left as the mainstream goes. Centrism being the left extreme of the mainstream American political spectrum is how we've ended up with the lesser of two evils, truth is in the middle, all politicians are the same voter apathy, etc. But I don't know how to change it. The climate is so poisonous to ideas that are even superficially leftist that I don't think anyone could emerge even if there was someone qualified. Bernie Sanders is probably the closest thing and I don't think I know a single person in real life who has even heard his name before. I mean it's good to be above the fray until the direction of the country is controlled solely by people in the fray. Yeah mainstream politics are a loving clown show, but getting gently caress all done by not being part of the discussion isn't really conducive to anything but self-congratulatory backpatting.
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Mar 19, 2014 07:54
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TBH I think the country as we know it is lost. Not completely, just as we know it. I think we're on the path to revolution. I don't think it'll happen soon, but it's going to be a continually miserable trip on the way. I think the good side will prevail, as it always does, but it won't be without a huge price, as always.
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Mar 19, 2014 09:48
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beatlegs posted:TBH I think the country as we know it is lost. Not completely, just as we know it. I think we're on the path to revolution. I don't think it'll happen soon, but it's going to be a continually miserable trip on the way. I think the good side will prevail, as it always does, but it won't be without a huge price, as always. Or, hell, with the fact that World War 1 happened.
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Mar 19, 2014 10:33
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I'm not going to touch your revolution comment, but I will say that I find it very difficult to rectify people saying 'good always wins' with the current state of the world. The world has seen much darker days in the past. Despite my horrible pessimism I feel grateful to be alive right now, as opposed to 500 years ago.
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Mar 19, 2014 10:51
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I sometimes have to remind my mother that Stephen Colbert is making fun of people and isn't a hard-lined conservative and that it's all an act.
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Mar 19, 2014 11:54
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/19/al-qaeda-calls-for-car-bombs-in-us-cities-other-crusader-countries/ People around my office are using this article as a told you so. I feel like Fox News fell for an onion article? Anyone help me source this article to argue with the people in my office.
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Mar 19, 2014 14:56
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How is it a "I told you so"? Inspire Magazine has been around for awhile now, put out by the propaganda wing of Al Qaeda.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:10
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Darkman Fanpage posted:How is it a "I told you so"? Inspire Magazine has been around for awhile now, put out by the propaganda wing of Al Qaeda. I don't know, they are using it as a stepping stone to "All muslims are bad, and this article proves that"
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Mar 19, 2014 15:33
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That article DOES read like a undercover agent writing what he thinks
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Mar 19, 2014 15:34
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Flaggy posted:I don't know, they are using it as a stepping stone to "All muslims are bad, and this article proves that" "That's like saying that the KKK proves that all southerners are all crazy racists or that Tim McVeigh means that we should never trust white people."
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Mar 19, 2014 15:40
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Flaggy posted:I don't know, they are using it as a stepping stone to "All muslims are bad, and this article proves that" I saw a burka the other day, guess I better stay away from cars 
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Mar 19, 2014 15:55
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Flaggy posted:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/19/al-qaeda-calls-for-car-bombs-in-us-cities-other-crusader-countries/ "Terrorists call for violence against people they don't like" is not a noteworthy headline unless you're an idiot. "Sun anticipated to rise tomorrow." e: Do you really want to argue with people who have visibly abysmal standards for argumentation? I don't try to convince my dog of the ethical merits of making GBS threads outside. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 17:01
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Well I hereby call for robot planes to shoot actual professionally made bombs into their cities, lets see who gets their wish first.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:06
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Popular Thug Drink posted:"Terrorists call for violence against people they don't like" is not a noteworthy headline unless you're an idiot. "Sun anticipated to rise tomorrow." I don't want to argue with them, I shouldn't have put that in my post, I just wanted to share what I deal with on a day to day basis.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:18
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If anyone needs to engage in speculative arguments with a Rush-listener or  -viewer about Pakistani space aliens stealing flight 370 to use against America, this article can be a helpful bucket of cold water to the face. Mystery solved in my opinion.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:58
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Wanda Wanda posted:If anyone needs to engage in speculative arguments with a Rush-listener or It's dumb. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/03/18/mh370_disappearance_chris_goodfellow_s_theory_about_a_fire_and_langkawi.html
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Mar 19, 2014 18:02
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Wanda Wanda posted:If anyone needs to engage in speculative arguments with a Rush-listener or I'm not sure which radio asshats made these my workplace theories, but either Pakistan or Iran took the jet. They obviously tricked the world, killed the passengers and will use this newly gotten "weapon" to fly into the U.S. or Israel disguised as British Airways loaded with bombs. I've run out of buckets of icewater to throw, these people are convinced this is about us and is a terrorist event. In unrelated news, Alex Jones picked up an radio affilate in my area
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Mar 19, 2014 18:20
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Flaggy posted:I don't know, they are using it as a stepping stone to "All muslims are bad, and this article proves that" And this is different from Christian or right-wing extremists that preach the lone wolf terrorism how?
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Mar 19, 2014 18:51
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So radio host and noted cranky old man Dennis Prager is co-hosting a fundraiser for Mitch McConnell and thehill decided to pull up some greatest hits including A two article series from 2008 explaining how married women are obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they aren't in the mood: http://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2008/12/23/when_a_woman_isnt_in_the_mood_part_i/page/full http://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2008/12/30/when_a_woman_isnt_in_the_mood_part_ii/page/full quote:Compared to most women's sexual nature, men's sexual nature is far closer to that of animals. So what? That is the way he is made. Blame God and nature. Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual nature's desire for variety for the rest of his life. To ask that he also regularly deny himself sex with the one woman in the world with whom he is permitted sex is asking far too much. quote:Thus, in the past generation we have witnessed the demise of the concept of obligation in personal relations. We have been nurtured in a culture of rights, not a culture of obligations. To many women, especially among the best educated, the notion that a woman owes her husband sex seems absurd, if not actually immoral. They have been taught that such a sense of obligation renders her “property.” Of course, the very fact that she can always say “no” -- and that this “no” must be honored -- renders the “property” argument absurd. quote:Many contemporary women have an almost exclusively romantic notion of sex: It should always be mutually desired and equally satisfying or one should not engage in it. Therefore, if a couple engages in sexual relations when he wants it and she does not, the act is “dehumanizing” and “mechanical.” Now, ideally, every time a husband and wife have sex, they would equally desire it and equally enjoy it. But, given the different sexual natures of men and women, this cannot always be the case. and this article from 2011 about the legacy of feminism: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/281795/four-legacies-feminism-dennis-prager quote:The first was the feminist message to young women to have sex just as men do. There is no reason for them to lead a different sexual life than men, they were told. Just as men can have sex with any woman solely for the sake of physical pleasure, so, too, women ought to enjoy sex with any man just for the fun of it. quote:In sum, thanks to feminism, very many women slept with too many men for their own happiness; postponed marriage too long to find the right man to marry; are having hired hands do much of the raising of their children; and find they are dating boy-men because manly men are so rare. It was pretty funny to hear him on the air today defending the articles and calling the article from thehill another phony prop in the war on women narrative.
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Mar 19, 2014 19:31
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Your Sledgehammer posted:Hunter S. Thompson was a journalist wearing a comedian's mask... He was also a 9/11 truther. As one of his biggest fans this disappointed me greatly but gave me solace in the idea that maybe he chose the right moment in time to kill himself. Is this thread now about about picking on left wing comedians? It's OK and an interesting derail as derails go (at least it's not another Bill Maher derail), but it's weird to watch a thread designed to lampoon and document Rush, Hannity and FOX - people who lampoon themselves everyday and spew stupid, unfunny lies every day as a matter of discourse - nitpick guys like Stewart and Colbert for having the audacity to be polite, sympathetic and funny.
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