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Launch came back at the end of the anime to give energy to the Spirit Bomb that kills Buu, but otherwise she had no other appearances, she never shows up in the manga. Launch was one of my favorite DB characters so I was pretty sad noticing that upon rereading.Squallege posted:Only after she slapped Buu in the god drat face! Chichi was hardcore. Oh man, Buu eating everyone on Kami's Lookout was amazing as these characters had been completely invulnerable to death in DBZ for the most part and then Gotenks shows up and you know exactly what happened and how much of a bastard Buu is.
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Mar 19, 2014 14:57
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Was Tien the first bad guy who got turned good? I miss reading the original DB where he was a credible threat and the fights were on a different scale. Just the fact he could fly was a huge deal.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:28
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Was Tien the first bad guy who got turned good? I miss reading the original DB where he was a credible threat and the fights were on a different scale. Just the fact he could fly was a huge deal. Yamcha counts I think.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:29
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Before either was Oolong I think.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:30
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Was Tien the first bad guy who got turned good? I miss reading the original DB where he was a credible threat and the fights were on a different scale. Just the fact he could fly was a huge deal. Remember when blowing up the world tournament stage was considered an incredible display of destructive power?
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Mar 19, 2014 15:37
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Spiritus Nox posted:Remember when blowing up the world tournament stage was considered an incredible display of destructive power? There was some inconsistency there with Roshi blowing up the moon. My initial rationalization was that the Dragon Ball moon is more like the one in Soul Eater than the one in the real world, but in an end-of-volume Q&A, Toriyama mentioned the moon being the same distance from the earth as the real one (in the context of how long Goku's staff extended when he took Boss Rabbit to the moon).
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Mar 19, 2014 15:57
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BlitzBlast posted:Before either was Oolong I think. Kakarot hit his head and became Goku.
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Mar 19, 2014 15:58
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Silver2195 posted:There was some inconsistency there with Roshi blowing up the moon. My initial rationalization was that the Dragon Ball moon is more like the one in Soul Eater than the one in the real world, but in an end-of-volume Q&A, Toriyama mentioned the moon being the same distance from the earth as the real one (in the context of how long Goku's staff extended when he took Boss Rabbit to the moon). Toriyama DEFINITELY was not aiming for scientific accuracy, particularly as DB is a gag manga 1/2 of the time. Roshi's moon-nuke was definitely part of the gag era, but if you want to rationalize it, it's part of the canon that Roshi indeed has that much power in him, but he also demonstrates he cannot maintain it for more than a second or two. See: the first Kamehameha, where he buffs out like crazy but it vanishes fast. Besides, the moon blew up at least twice in the series. We can safely assume that someone else like Sailor Moon or something found the Dragonballs during a downtime and made a wish. In fact, the fact that there could be unknown wishes made are plothooks in themselves if Toriyama ever wanted to go back in time for new stories. As for "villain turned heroes," almost all Goku's friends were against him at some point--that's a big part of Goku's character, his ability to make friends and give villains a second chance. Even Krillin was Goku's rival when they were training together. Though he wasn't a bad guy, just a bratty kid. Yamcha was a bandit, Tien a school rival, even Bulma was sort of selfishly motivated at the start. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 16:24
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Future Trunks is probably the only Z Fighter who isn't initially antagonistic in some capacity, and even then I seem to recall that the anime sort of played a 'WHO IS THIS MYSTERIOUS YOUTH AND IS HE FRIEND OR FOE?' angle at first.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:30
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Future Trunks is probably the only Z Fighter who isn't initially antagonistic in some capacity, and even then I seem to recall that the anime sort of played a 'WHO IS THIS MYSTERIOUS YOUTH AND IS HE FRIEND OR FOE?' angle at first. The kids in general are the only non antagonistic ones (Gohan/Goten/Trunks/Trunks). It still does a good job explaining why Goku lets so many people go. His best friends, including THE DEVIL, who constantly help save the world, are all reformed villains. Might as well give this galactic warlord a shot, too.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:42
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By the way, back in Dragon Ball it was stated that people who are killed by "demons" like Piccolo don't go to the normal afterlife. This, of course, is seemingly contradicted when Piccolo kills Goku and Raditz during the Saiyan Saga. The best explanation I can come up with is that it's true of actual demons like the one who works for Baba, but whoever was explaining this (Roshi?) didn't know that Piccolo was actually a Namekian.
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Mar 19, 2014 16:50
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Silver2195 posted:By the way, back in Dragon Ball it was stated that people who are killed by "demons" like Piccolo don't go to the normal afterlife. This, of course, is seemingly contradicted when Piccolo kills Goku and Raditz during the Saiyan Saga. The best explanation I can come up with is that it's true of actual demons like the one who works for Baba, but whoever was explaining this (Roshi?) didn't know that Piccolo was actually a Namekian. That's definitely been forgotten, but it's also just based on typical old Japanese folklore. Being killed by a ghost/demon/evil creature/etc means no heaven for you, something that was added by Japanese priests presumably to make them more scary than just being able to regular-kill you.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:08
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Was Yajirobe antagonistic in his debut? All I remember is he killed Cymbal. Also Kami restored the moon the first time during Goku's training. Then Piccolo blew it up again.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:15
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Silver2195 posted:By the way, back in Dragon Ball it was stated that people who are killed by "demons" like Piccolo don't go to the normal afterlife. This, of course, is seemingly contradicted when Piccolo kills Goku and Raditz during the Saiyan Saga. The best explanation I can come up with is that it's true of actual demons like the one who works for Baba, but whoever was explaining this (Roshi?) didn't know that Piccolo was actually a Namekian. Ma Jr. is a reincarnation of Piccolo like Uub is of Buu. Not exactly the same being; kind of a laundered soul. So, that makes it enough of an excuse to kind of ignore the old Dragon Ball thing (where Kami's negative side became the actual devil of the world since he was God).
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Mar 19, 2014 17:17
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crankdatbatman posted:Was Yajirobe antagonistic in his debut? All I remember is he killed Cymbal. When he met Goku, he was kind of a wildcard. Then Cymbal showed up and he ate him or something.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:28
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Silver2195 posted:By the way, back in Dragon Ball it was stated that people who are killed by "demons" like Piccolo don't go to the normal afterlife. This, of course, is seemingly contradicted when Piccolo kills Goku and Raditz during the Saiyan Saga. The best explanation I can come up with is that it's true of actual demons like the one who works for Baba, but whoever was explaining this (Roshi?) didn't know that Piccolo was actually a Namekian. That was actually addressed. During the saiyan arc there was a dialogue between Kami and Mr. Popo about Gohan's safety under Piccolo's tutelage, and Kami claims that the fact that Goku could reach the afterlife proves Piccolo is no longer the demon he once was.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:57
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Petiso posted:That was actually addressed. Huh. Forgot about that. That's actually pretty clever and consistent for Toriyama.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:19
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Was it ever explained why pre-Freeza Piccolo (or his, well... dad for that matter) were vastly inferior in terms of power level even to common folk on Namek? And I'm not even mentioning Nail, mind you.
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Mar 19, 2014 19:31
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PiedPiper posted:Was it ever explained why pre-Freeza Piccolo (or his, well... dad for that matter) were vastly inferior in terms of power level even to common folk on Namek? And I'm not even mentioning Nail, mind you. I think it had something to do with him essentially being half a Namek. Once he rejoins with Kami during the Android/Cell saga his power goes up a considerable amount.
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Mar 19, 2014 19:35
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TARDISman posted:I think it had something to do with him essentially being half a Namek. Once he rejoins with Kami during the Android/Cell saga his power goes up a considerable amount. Big time. They point out in the series that pre-split Piccolo ("The Nameless Namek") was quite a powerful being before he became Earth's God.
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Mar 19, 2014 19:58
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So if Piccolo and Kami joined sooner, they'd pretty much curbstomp both Nappa and Vegeta? I can see why Kami would refuse, though. As much as Piccolo's heart was changing, he was still a bit of a wild card.
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Mar 19, 2014 20:10
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Mister Roboto posted:Big time. They point out in the series that pre-split Piccolo ("The Nameless Namek") was quite a powerful being before he became Earth's God. Powerful enough that he could have beaten Freeza on his own, if I recall correctly.
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Mar 19, 2014 20:11
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PiedPiper posted:So if Piccolo and Kami joined sooner, they'd pretty much curbstomp both Nappa and Vegeta? Also no more Dragon Balls, meaning Goku would be poo poo out of luck.
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Mar 19, 2014 20:11
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Metal Loaf posted:Powerful enough that he could have beaten Freeza on his own, if I recall correctly. Yep, it's pretty much given that The Nameless Namek was one of the Best and the Brightest of the Namekian people, sent out to travel the stars. It's a pity Lord Slug wasn't well received, the concept of other super-Namekians being out there somewhere is a good one to explore.
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Mar 19, 2014 20:37
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I can understand why Freeza would want to genocide the Namekians the same as he did the Sayians
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Mar 19, 2014 20:48
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Yajirobe always confused me because he was insanely strong in his first appearance, defeating Cymbal with almost no effort and not being affected by his attacks at all, even though Cymbal was supposed to be almost as strong as Tambourine who had just killed Krillen. Yajirobe then does nothing for a long time, and then cuts of Vegeta's tail like it wasn't anything too hard. So basically I just never got why people weren't always asking him for help cause dude probably could have destroyed Buu.
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Mar 19, 2014 21:42
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Yajirobe doesn't have to help them. Yajirobe doesn't have to help anyone.
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Mar 19, 2014 21:52
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Yajirobe wisely decided to just stay away from all the bullshit and settle down with Korin. He is secretly the only DBZ character to have never died, or been in a state of "technically dead".
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Mar 19, 2014 21:52
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Toriyama's writing style basically invented lots of characters who were there for the joke/fighting challenge at the time and then were forgotten. Though in fairness Yajirobe's absence DID have an explanation in that he just never bothered to get any stronger or learn Ki/flying/etc.
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Mar 19, 2014 22:03
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It seems Yajirobe was supposed to be Krillin's replacement after Tambourine killed him, he appears inmmediatly after the incident, Goku even pointed out that he reminded him of Krillin and the anime gave him the same voice actress. Then the whole thing got scrapped as usual in Dragon Ball.
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Mar 19, 2014 22:33
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I always saw Yajirobe as an opposite of Goku. When he's introduced, he's presented as being close in strength to (young) Goku and takes out Cymbal with ease, and climbs Korin tower with Goku on his back. But he has the opposite attitude about fighting and training. He doesn't exactly take a lot of risks eagerly, and he doesn't look like he trains at all, and he's not optimistic or forever cheerful in the face of adversity. He'll come through at the last moment, like when he catches Goku at the end of the Piccolo Sr. fight or when he cuts off Vegeta's tail. He backs out of fighting when Goku first meets Piccolo Sr. and Goku nearly gets killed, but then Yajirobe revives Goku once Piccolo leaves him for dead and helps him climb Korin tower. Goku, in contrast, is the kind of character that steps up to save the day, not sneak in the back door and do something helpful and/or crucial like Yajirobe. Shame he didn't get to play that role more after the fight with Vegeta. That said I kinda think of him as being pretty drat smart for popping in when needed but otherwise staying the gently caress out of all of the crazy poo poo Goku ends up in.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:17
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All this DB talk makes me ashamed that I've never seen it. DBZ is in my top five favorite media franchises ever. But I've haven't seen more than two episodes of the original Dragonball.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:42
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Esroc posted:All this DB talk makes me ashamed that I've never seen it. DBZ is in my top five favorite media franchises ever. But I've haven't seen more than two episodes of the original Dragonball. Honestly, Dragonball might be a better overall show - though it's been a long-rear end time since I've seen it.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:59
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Is there filler in Dragon Ball?
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Mar 20, 2014 03:03
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Squallege posted:Is there filler in Dragon Ball? Yeah, tons, if not moreso. However, it's a bit less noticeable simply because the history hasn't been running for years, so there was way more freedom for the fanfic writers to create things. Also, a lot of the filler is more "Dragonball" like, so more gags and simple stories. It also adds one of the only Goku and Chichi romantic stories in the entire series, so that's a bonus for character development.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:10
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Squallege posted:Is there filler in Dragon Ball? Hell yeah there is. Personally I'd just stick with the manga, since there's a great set of omnibuses Viz released with larger pages than usual, and Dragonball's only sixteen volumes.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:11
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Esroc posted:All this DB talk makes me ashamed that I've never seen it. DBZ is in my top five favorite media franchises ever. But I've haven't seen more than two episodes of the original Dragonball. Get to watching Dragonball you fool! Thought it might end up making you think, man everyone who is not Goku turns useless in DBZ.  Granted my favorite fight is obviously Goku v.s. Piccolo. I do like how Piccolo never uses his get large and stay the same speed/size tech ever again after DB.
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Mar 20, 2014 04:20
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Esroc posted:All this DB talk makes me ashamed that I've never seen it. DBZ is in my top five favorite media franchises ever. But I've haven't seen more than two episodes of the original Dragonball. Dragonball holds up a lot better than Dragonball Z does, and ends on a high note. Go and watch it.
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Mar 20, 2014 04:35
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Shindragon posted:Get to watching Dragonball you fool! Thought it might end up making you think, man everyone who is not Goku turns useless in DBZ. Probably because it's kind of a crappy ability; it makes him a bigger target and gives him bigger blind spots. To actually be useful, it would have to make him faster than his normal form instead of just keeping his speed the same.
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Mar 20, 2014 04:42
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Shindragon posted:
He saw Slug do it, and was all "Is THAT what I look like?"
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Mar 20, 2014 04:42
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