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Darn. I was hoping there was some kind of tester shortcut that didn't involve rigging a line from an unused breaker to each drop and then running upstairs.
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Feb 23, 2014 03:51
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I have a 100A breaker in a box mounted outside, between my meter and the interior breaker box. It's rusted pretty badly, the breaker itself is sparking a bit and half my house's power is flickering. Power company will come out to kill the power at the riser level with 24+ hours notice, at which point work can begin on the exterior box. My question is: does this box serve me any purpose? (that is, is it a code requirement that I need an additional breaker between my meter and my interior box? I'm in NY) Or can I just wire nut the proper connections when the line is off and essentially disable the defective box and breaker combo? My concern is that the power company tech told me my options were: 1) replace breaker for $50 unless either the box is bad or the breaker was welded in place (never heard of this unless he means the sparking wire is going to weld it to the box?) in which case we go to 2) replace the box, which requires an inspection where I could be required to replace the mounting (30+ year old plywood nailed to the pole outside my window), and the underground conduit between the box outside and the box inside (not exactly feasible in February in NY).
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Feb 23, 2014 08:22
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I believe that breaker is considered your "service disconnect" so yes, it's required. You don't want to use wire nuts on a service entrance cable handling 100 amps either - they don't make em that big, and it would be extremely hazardous to use them. It sounds like you have two options. Replace the breaker. If everything else goes well, that's it. Replace the breaker and box. I recommend calling an electrician for this one... and yeah, you want to replace the plywood. Hopefully the conduit can be reused in place without replacing it.
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Feb 23, 2014 12:23
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oldskool posted:I have a 100A breaker in a box mounted outside, between my meter and the interior breaker box. It's rusted pretty badly, the breaker itself is sparking a bit and half my house's power is flickering. What kind of shape is your service pole in, 30 years sounds like about time to change the whole thing out. It's a lot better to change it proactively, than have it fall over rotten on a Saturday morning and be out of power until you can get an electrician on Monday.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:46
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Stultus Maximus posted:Darn. I was hoping there was some kind of tester shortcut that didn't involve rigging a line from an unused breaker to each drop and then running upstairs. The closest thing for your situation is called a "circuit tracer" and a good one will set you back a couple hundred. There's only 2 problems. 1) They're for energized wiring and 2) they're designed to work the other way than your situation: plug in the toner at a random spot on the circuit and go to the panel to find the associated breaker. You might be able to get away with just an extension cord instead of rigging a temporary breaker. First, go around to your mystery boxes that aren't powered yet, then turn off all the lights and unplug everything from those outlets. Next, stick a mystery cable's hot and neutral into the extension cord and plug it in. Go around with a lamp or something and see which outlets are powered now. oldskool posted:I have a 100A breaker in a box mounted outside, between my meter and the interior breaker box. It's rusted pretty badly, the breaker itself is sparking a bit and half my house's power is flickering. Those are your main breakers outside. Tons of available panel boxes for interior use have main breaker slots inside. Sometimes, the main breakers look like regular breakers and attach just like regular breakers to the hot busbars. That being said, you would have to check with your local code authority on whether or not they allow indoor main breakers. Check with your city first. They may direct you to your county though. Breakers can weld themselves in place. You know that little flash you sometimes see at the outlet when you plug something in? You just saw an arc weld attempt, granted a tiny one. Any time electricity jumps a gap, it creates heat. Electrical equipment of all types use screw terminals and strong springs to clamp down conductors. Given enough time however (esp with outdoor temp fluctuations), screws loosen and springs weaken. Eventually, tiny gaps form and the electricity jumps it, creating a flash. The more amps jumping that gap, the more heat is generated. Given enough time, the metals on both sides of that gap start to melt. The melting gets worse and worse until both sides of the gap touch. Eventually, enough melted metals bridge the gap until the weld is large enough to support the amperage across it. The first couple times this happens, the changing weather can break that weld, repeating the process and the sparks, until it's solid. You can usually break the weld from a hot-ground short on a 15A branch circuit with just your hands. Welds on a 100A breaker are another story. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 20:03
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I showed it to a friend of the family who's a licensed electrician, he said the box looked OK but the breaker screw had worked itself loose on one half, which was causing the problem. (also the breaker was melting from the heat and that was causing additional arcing, which caused more heat...) And then while I was fixing his wife's laptop (hooray for time-for-time exchanges instead of financial swaps!) his son-in-law found a compatible 100A breaker at his place, went over to mine...and swapped it hot.  "It only tingled a little!" (when he disconneted a live 100A breaker by unscrewing the loose screws with an allen wrench held by 'insulated' pliers while standing in knee-deep snow) "And now it works!" I mean I'm glad it worked and I can't argue with the results but jesus christ how is there not a char mark in front of my service disconnect right now
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Feb 24, 2014 05:14
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Here's one I can't figure out.. The GFCI outlets in the master bathroom vanity will randomly quit working. Everything else works fine that's on the same breaker - which is to say the breaker is NOT tripping. They'll stop working for a day or two, maybe a week. Then they decide to start working again. These are new GFCIs which I bought to replace the old ones that were doing the same thing. Any ideas?
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Feb 24, 2014 22:05
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Tide posted:Here's one I can't figure out.. I just got through fighting the GFCI outlets in my kitchen this weekend and finally figured it out. Common mistake with GFCI's is wiring the outlet wrong when you replace it. There's a "Charge" side and a "Load" side on the back of each outlet. The Charge side is where the electricity is supplied from (ie. breaker box, another outlet) and the Load side is usually an outlet down the path. In my kitchen I had three GFCI's that were on the same circuit so I had wire them up like so: Breaker Box -----> Charge Side [GFCI1] Load Side -------> Charge Side [GFCI2] Load Side -----> Charge Side [GFCI3] So I'd check your bathroom outlet and make sure you don't have the wires crossed accidentally
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Feb 24, 2014 23:03
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johnnyonetime posted:I just got through fighting the GFCI outlets in my kitchen this weekend and finally figured it out. Common mistake with GFCI's is wiring the outlet wrong when you replace it. There's a "Charge" side and a "Load" side on the back of each outlet. The Charge side is where the electricity is supplied from (ie. breaker box, another outlet) and the Load side is usually an outlet down the path. In my kitchen I had three GFCI's that were on the same circuit so I had wire them up like so: Uhhhh..that's wrong. You attach non-gfci outlets to "load" if you want them to be protected by the GFCI. You attach other GFCIs to "line".  As opposed to: 
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Feb 24, 2014 23:29
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Motronic posted:Uhhhh..that's wrong. Bingo. There's no benefit to daisy-chaining GFCIs to the protected terminals of an up-branch GFCI. Tide posted:Here's one I can't figure out.. That sounds like a loose wire connection somewhere up that branch. If it's happening now and you have a circuit tester, you can confirm it. Pull the GFCIs out of the box and touch the tester terminals to the line screws on the GFCI.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:17
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I've got a poorly lit kitchen in the house i'm renting. There is one outlet all the way at the end of the kitchen in which the landlord put one of those six gang outlet expanders.  Whats a safe and efficient way to add some under cabinet lighting? From that outlet i have counter-sink-counter running the length of the kitchen. Should i just buy/build some LED strip lighting and run cord along the backsplash/bottom of the upper cabinets? If i buy this house, there would be some fixing of all the old wiring (1920's so its all old rear end poo poo) up to romex love, but for now, i'm looking for something simple/easy to get more lights on the countertop/sink for prep/clenaing work.
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Feb 26, 2014 17:50
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Simplest would just be some sticky battery powered lights. Otherwise, probably yeah, just go to home depot and grab the under cabinet lighting you prefer. You just get one that plugs into the outlet, and usually you can chain any further lights off that one, up to some reasonable limit. Unless you're running the lights, the mixer, the blender, the food processor, and...something else, you should be fine amperage-wise. But you can look at what the lights will draw if there's a concern (you mentioned old-rear end wiring, so there might be.)
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Feb 26, 2014 17:56
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I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask, but I thought I'd start here. I have a vacuum siphon coffee brewer, which I love. It looks like this:  It requires a heat source below the glass. Normally you use a small gas burner or something, and this works fine. It's annoying having to refill it, though, and I'd rather not have an open flame on my desk if I can avoid. Most coffee shops use halogen beam heaters like this:  ...which is basically a 350W halogen bulb with a fancy case and a dimmer pot. The bulb sits below the coffee brewer and acts as an easy on/off heat source to get the vacuum siphon action going.  However, these things are like three hundred and fifty loving dollars. This seems kind of insane to me for what you actually get, and I'm convinced that I could make a close approximation for way cheaper. Am I going to burn my house down if I hook up a 350W (or 500W?) halogen bulb to a dimmer with 120V plug? Is there a better solution? ephori fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 20:43
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Maybe give this a try.
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Feb 28, 2014 20:48
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ephori posted:Am I going to burn my house down if I hook up a 350W (or 500W?) halogen bulb to a dimmer with 120V plug? Is there a better solution?
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Feb 28, 2014 21:24
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GWBBQ posted:As long as the bulb is dimmable and the dimmer is rated for the amount of current the bulb will draw, you're fine. Exactly. Ephori, do you remember the electrical formula wheel from science class?  Now do the math: 350 watts / 120 volts = 2.916 amps 500 watts / 120 volts = 4.166 amps That's well within the ability of any household branch circuit to handle. I would be more worried about the heat generated by the bulb, and having a holder/stand for your pot that could withstand the bulb's heat.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:22
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Yeah, other concerns are that you're definitely going to need a reflector if the bulb doesn't have one built in and ventilation to manage the heat.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:51
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I have a few outlets (3 I think) on one side of my house that don't work at all and I've never bothered to try and replace them. Is it possible that each individual outlet needs to be replaced or could that be a sign of a more serious problem? My guess is I could just replace one outlet and test it afterwards. If it doesn't work I suppose that's a sign of a more serious issue. If I ever replace an outlet obviously I will: 1. Turn off all the breakers because why not? I love life. 2. Test with a circuit tester before doing anything, because why not? I love life.
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Mar 6, 2014 02:40
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Orange_Lazarus posted:I have a few outlets (3 I think) on one side of my house that don't work at all and I've never bothered to try and replace them. Is it possible that each individual outlet needs to be replaced or could that be a sign of a more serious problem? My guess is I could just replace one outlet and test it afterwards. If it doesn't work I suppose that's a sign of a more serious issue. life is overrated  Have you done the obvious and made sure all your breakers are turned on? What about any mystery switches nearby? It's possible that they could all be switched outlets. Are all 3 of these outlets in the same or adjoining rooms?
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Mar 6, 2014 18:47
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Yeah, all the breakers are on and have all been reset (installed a thermostat, etc) several times over the years. They're all in the same room, on the same side of the house.
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Mar 7, 2014 01:52
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I have a question about a weird thing the fuse box did where I used to live. It had one fuse that was blown, and if removed the wire going into the box would heat up and smoke, which was pretty much the opposite of what it should be doing. Why in the world would it do this?
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Mar 7, 2014 05:29
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Orange_Lazarus posted:Yeah, all the breakers are on and have all been reset (installed a thermostat, etc) several times over the years. How old is your place? Did someone previously do a GFCI upgrade so you could have 3 prong outlets? If so, try finding the GFCI and pushing the reset button.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:36
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I am really lost now. I've been trying to simplify the wiring at my new house since it was a two family home merged into one, with new circuits being run whenever someone felt like adding an outlet. I wired a basement light and an outlet that had their own circuit into another basement light and outlet, so I have this: light light----outlet | | Breaker-------Junction box-----junction box---? | | outlet Porch light The question mark is because a wire goes up the wall and then I have no idea where to. After I rewired this, everything on the second junction box would go on and off at about 10 second intervals - 10s on, 10s off (roughly). I solved the problem by pulling out the wires that go to (?) and now everything else works fine. What on earth is going on and what should I look for connected to that circuit that would cause this behavior? Stultus Maximus fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 00:19
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I went to help a friend with some electric while he is remodeling his kitchen, and, well, his electric is hosed. Every circuit controls stuff spread all over the house for one. The most hosed however, is one box in his kitchen soffit. It was an outlet, but was also serving as a junction. Very crowded box, connected to four runs of conduit. One run was a foot long bit of abandoned flex with a neutral and a hot. Both wires were showing as hot with my simple little voltage detector (not meter). I disconnected the neutral from the big bundle of neutrals - At this point we are discussing a foot length of wire inside flex, not attached to anything at either side - Voltage detector is saying it is hot. I disconnect the hot wire, and thankfully the laws of physics kick back in and both lines go dead. I am assuming somewhere in the flex, both wires were bare? I continue taking the box apart, and ultimately find that two of the five black wires nutted together are hot. Both of them, as it turns out, are hot unless 3 separate breakers are turned off simultaneously. All 3 breakers are on the same side of the panel, but not next to each other if that matters. I did what I could (relocated the box so he could remove the soffit, put it all back how it was, minus having one of the mystery hots now capped by itself, abandoned in the box) and told him to hire an electrician. I don't think he is going to.
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Mar 9, 2014 16:29
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kid sinister posted:How old is your place? Did someone previously do a GFCI upgrade so you could have 3 prong outlets? If so, try finding the GFCI and pushing the reset button. They're not GFCI but I double check when I get home. If that's not the issue what would be the next step?
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Mar 11, 2014 20:16
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Orange_Lazarus posted:They're not GFCI but I double check when I get home. If that's not the issue what would be the next step? Only ONE would be GFCI if it was properly installed/converted. The rest of the outlets would be protected by that GFCI, to all outlets would be off if it were tripped.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:21
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Orange_Lazarus posted:They're not GFCI but I double check when I get home. If that's not the issue what would be the next step? Motronic is right, GFCIs can protect other outlets further down branch. If the GFCI trips or somebody small, say, the height of an outlet pressed the test button on the GFCI, then the GFCI and everything it's protecting will turn off. If that's not the issue, then it sounds like the hot wire feeding those currently unpowered outlets came undone. The hard part will be finding where on the circuit that happened. The first place to try looking is the 2 outlets on either end. Turn off the circuit, pull them out of the box, then turn the circuit back on. One of those boxes should have 2 cables entering it. Use a circuit tester on both of those cables. If they're both dead, then you'll need to search up branch. What else is on this circuit?
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Mar 11, 2014 22:00
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I've got an AFCI breaker that is nuisance tripping like crazy. I'm trying to isolate which specific bit of electronics equipment is pissing it off, but if I can't nail down what is wrong would it be a terrible idea to replace it with a non-AFCI breaker and call it a day? I'll keep the original breaker around for when I sell the house. I have a line-interactive UPS for my computer on the circuit from when I lived in an apartment with absolutely terrible wiring, is it likely that this is what's tripping the AFCI breaker? If so, is there anything I can do to stop it tripping short of replacing it? Edit: This problem happens intermittently, but only when I'm playing a PC game with VSync off. I wonder if either my PSU or the UPS is making some weird harmonic that's tripping it. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 16:17
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Twerk from Home posted:I've got an AFCI breaker that is nuisance tripping like crazy. I'm trying to isolate which specific bit of electronics equipment is pissing it off, but if I can't nail down what is wrong would it be a terrible idea to replace it with a non-AFCI breaker and call it a day? I'll keep the original breaker around for when I sell the house. AFCI issues with UPSes (and PCs) are A Thing, if you don't know the age of the breaker, buying a new one may solve it as each succesive generation has better detection firmware to avoid it. If that won't fix it, buying an on-line UPS will probably solve it since the PC will be totally isolated from the circuit.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:27
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My garage just has one GFCI receptacle in it, which isn't going to work out for me after I get something more like a workshop in there. So I'd like to get power to my garage, but I can't figure out how to realistically do it. What I'd really want in there is two 20A 120V circuits (though I'd settle for 15A) plus a 30A 240V circuit for something like a welder. The breaker box for the house is a Challenger SL12(20-20)CT. So it's got 20 locations for breakers, all 20 of which are filled, and none of the locations support a tandem breaker. So without replacing this, I don't see how I can get any new circuits in the house through this box. And replacing it isn't going to happen, since that would then require bringing everything in the house up to current code, and I don't want to have to spend $X,000 on this. Plan B is that outside, next to the service entrance, is the main breaker panel containing: - One double-pole 60A breaker going to the box for the house - One double-pole 50A breaker going to the stove - Two double-pole 30A breakers for two A/C units (upstairs and downstairs) - One double-pole 30A breaker labeled "water heater" - Space for another double-pole breaker Using my advanced math skills, I'm figuring that the (60A + 50A + 3x30A) is 200A, which is almost certainly the capacity of the service to the house. So I'm thinking that I can't just add another double-pole 30A breaker in the available space without making that total 230A, which the next inspector probably wouldn't like all that much. I'm led to believe that the "water heater" breaker is required, even though I have a gas water heater that doesn't plug into anything, because the next owner might want to waste a bunch of money with an electric one or something, and we have to handle that eventuality. So I don't think I can commandeer that breaker to run to another, smaller, panel for the garage to get a couple of new circuits. So, can I install another double-pole breaker in the main breaker panel, which would bring the total of all the breakers in there above 200A, and then run a sub-panel for the garage off that? Or should I just re-use the "water heater" breaker to go to a sub-panel, and then undo everything before we sell the house? Or... another option that I'm not thinking about?
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Mar 17, 2014 16:41
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atomic johnson posted:So, can I install another double-pole breaker in the main breaker panel, which would bring the total of all the breakers in there above 200A, and then run a sub-panel for the garage off that? Or should I just re-use the "water heater" breaker to go to a sub-panel, and then undo everything before we sell the house? Or... another option that I'm not thinking about? Never cheap out with electrical. Spend the money and do it right or don't do it.
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Mar 17, 2014 16:57
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atomic johnson posted:Using my advanced math skills, I'm figuring that the (60A + 50A + 3x30A) is 200A, which is almost certainly the capacity of the service to the house. So I'm thinking that I can't just add another double-pole 30A breaker in the available space without making that total 230A, which the next inspector probably wouldn't like all that much. Also, that's not how this works. Unless you think you'll be drawing full rated amperage off of all breakers simultaneously. Seriously....get a professional. Chances are good there is an easy way to make this happen, but someone who knows what they are looking at needs to be physically in your house to make that determination.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:04
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Just because that breaker is labeled water heater, doesn't mean that's what it goes to. You've pulled the cover and made sure nothing is hooked to it? To briefly answer your question, it does sound like your exterior main panel is the best option for more garage circuits, but I think whatever you do is straying into 'needs permit and inspection' territory.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:26
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atomic johnson posted:My garage just has one GFCI receptacle in it, which isn't going to work out for me after I get something more like a workshop in there. So I'd like to get power to my garage, but I can't figure out how to realistically do it. What I'd really want in there is two 20A 120V circuits (though I'd settle for 15A) plus a 30A 240V circuit for something like a welder. Seconding "the math doesn't work that way". The only stuff "required" to have breakers for on your service is everything that is currently powered. First off, do you have some little secondary water heater somewhere hidden in your house? If you don't have an electric water heater, then you don't need a breaker for it, same as for any other electric major appliances that you might not have, like an electric range, oven, hot tub, hybrid car charger, etc. If you don't have one, then it's safe to remove it and abandon any cables hooked up to it once they're separated from the breaker, capped and taped. It's legal to stick a breaker with no wires attached to it into a open slot on the panel cover. Electricians usually do this when they pop too many slots out of the panel cover and don't have any plastic slot covers to fit in there. They usually mark them as "spare" though. Speaking of car chargers, you might want to consider running cable fat enough for a 50A circuit to your garage, not just a 30A. There are 50A welders out there, plus the fastest chargers out now for hybrids and Teslas pull 40 amps, not 30. If you're going to the trouble of running fat cables to your workshop garage, then now is a great opportunity for future proofing regarding whatever vehicular changes are coming. angryrobots posted:To briefly answer your question, it does sound like your exterior main panel is the best option for more garage circuits, but I think whatever you do is straying into 'needs permit and inspection' territory. What he said. You're right on the edge of needing that stuff. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 19:31
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Motronic posted:Also, that's not how this works. Unless you think you'll be drawing full rated amperage off of all breakers simultaneously. Didn't think it necessarily did, since the box for the house definitely has a ton more than 60A total of breakers, but sometimes things are counterintuitive and all of the outside breakers adding up to EXACTLY as much as my service is something I didn't think had to be a coincidence. Guess I'll just call a pro when the time comes. Also, good thinking on the electric car charger. Re: water heater breaker - AFAIK there is nothing hooked to it, there is no electric water heater and never has been in this house, but I remember hearing that there had to be one in case a future owner wanted to replace the gas heater with electric. Maybe there's nothing to that but I can't come up with any other reason that there would be a breaker specifically for it.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:47
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atomic johnson posted:Re: water heater breaker - AFAIK there is nothing hooked to it, there is no electric water heater and never has been in this house, but I remember hearing that there had to be one in case a future owner wanted to replace the gas heater with electric. Maybe there's nothing to that but I can't come up with any other reason that there would be a breaker specifically for it. There's nothing in the NEC codebook that requires that. Your local code authority may have other rules in addition to that though. You would have to check with your city/county. It's also possible that a previous owner did have an electric water heater which since got replaced with a gas one and the breaker in the panel for it may be the only evidence left of it. Like I hinted at, leaving open holes in your breaker box is bad. That includes breaker slots, and leaving breakers with no wires attached in those slots counts as covering the holes.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:25
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Is there a chance that when installing a 2 pole 220 breaker I may end up without 220 based on where it is in the panel? My dad spooked me by suggesting it, but I can find nothing online saying it's possible. I know with 3 phase panels you need to be careful with breaker placement, but residential seems pretty idiot proof. He is a long-ago-former electrician - Was this perhaps an issue with older residential panels?
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Mar 19, 2014 17:48
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This is a dumb question with hopefully a simple answer. Can I buy blank plates for my breaker box? My 200amp box is full (I have been slowly removing baseboard heaters) so I don't think I have any remaining in there. I'm planning on replacing a 220 circuit at my box with a 30 amp 110 circuit for a bathroom project and I don't think that empty space would be good in there. It's a GE panel if that matters. Last time I was at our local lowes I couldn't even find GE breakers but according to their website they have them. I wasn't sure if this was a common item (blank plates) that they should carry or not.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:05
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Slugworth posted:Is there a chance that when installing a 2 pole 220 breaker I may end up without 220 based on where it is in the panel? My dad spooked me by suggesting it, but I can find nothing online saying it's possible. I know with 3 phase panels you need to be careful with breaker placement, but residential seems pretty idiot proof. Any reasonably modern panel you will be fine with. I can't even think of any old panels this would be true on... basically the lugs for the breakers are set up so they are connected to alternating hot legs, so any two adjacent slots are going to be on opposite hot legs. Even if you put two breakers in with one space between them (illegal AND retarded) and tried to pull 220 all you would do is get zero volts between the hots and 120 from each one to neutral, so your dryer or whatever would act like it was going to work, but the 220-powered stuff (heating elements, motor, etc) would just laugh at you and do nothing. It wouldn't hurt anything.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:16
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kastein posted:Any reasonably modern panel you will be fine with. I can't even think of any old panels this would be true on... basically the lugs for the breakers are set up so they are connected to alternating hot legs, so any two adjacent slots are going to be on opposite hot legs.
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Mar 19, 2014 18:32
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