|
Myriad Truths posted:Um, that depends if by 'E-Warlock' you mean Hexblade, which is awesome if totally nonfunctional under the rules, or Binder, which is unplayable garbage. I assume the former, but I just want to remind people that making a non-terrible E-Warlock still took them two tries. I'm not super familiar with the essentials classes. What's wrong with hexblade and binder?
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 05:02 |
|
|
Myriad Truths posted:Um, that depends if by 'E-Warlock' you mean Hexblade, which is awesome if totally nonfunctional under the rules, or Binder, which is unplayable garbage. I assume the former, but I just want to remind people that making a non-terrible E-Warlock still took them two tries. I mean hexblade. How is it totally nonfunctional under the rules? I have one in my group; he kicks all sorts of rear end, and we never have had a problem with any of his powers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
Glagha posted:I'm not super familiar with the essentials classes. What's wrong with hexblade and binder? -You're a controller forking off of a class with single-target, moderate-status-effect powers, so your power selection is whatever you've got in the Binder write-up or else crap. And half of the good stuff you have, a regular warlock could take. -The riders on your powers imply that you can't get rider effects from regular pact powers (since yours say Fey Pact (Binder) and theirs just say Fey Pact); in the other direction this means your powers are more-or-less arbitrarily poo poo-garbage, TO YOU, if you choose off-pact because they're balanced against losing most of their utility if a non-binder-of-your-pact (read: warlock) chooses them, so when a binder-of-not-your-pact chooses them they're bad. -Your pact boon feature is core to your utility/survivability, but is weaker or worse than the baseline warlock equivalents, AND harder to trigger (no cursing, just proximity...on a controller. Or dealing the killing blow...on a controller). You work twice as hard for half as much reward. -You don't have controller area damage or striker single-target damage. What do you even do?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
There's also the problem with Pixie Hexblades that RAW they have to waste an action to shrink their pact weapon down to size, but other than that  .
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:26
|
|
|
Binders are terrible because they're almost strictly worse than o-locks, not to mention being squishy ranged implement controllers with class features based on bloodying and killing creatures or being next to them when they are bloodied or killed, which is exactly where a ranged controller doesn't want to be. Hexblades would be fine if it weren't for the fact that the writers gave their powers both the weapon and implement keyword which makes them a mess in terms of how they interact with the rest of the game. Plus, they have almost no native access to striker support. They can charge, and they can get Quickened Spellcasting at Epic, but that's about it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
I really loving hate all warlocks anyway, their mechanics are always grossly over-complicated and by the end of making one I'm always like "Why didn't I just make a wizard or a sorcerer?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:I mean hexblade. How is it totally nonfunctional under the rules? I have one in my group; he kicks all sorts of rear end, and we never have had a problem with any of his powers. The way that the pact blade works isn't supported at all mechanically. It's not a big deal if you don't look too deep, but the rules get really awkward. The problem is how the pact weapon inherits the properties of the implement used to summon it. The rules aren't equipped to handle powers that are both weapon powers and implement powers. In addition, this allows you to apply enchantments to weapons that really should not have them at all because they were intended for non-weapon implements, which also causes some problems. I'm not really equipped myself to go into detail, but one thing I remember consistently causing problems is whether a pact weapon functioned with Dual Implement Spellcaster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:33
|
|
|
We've never faced any of those problems. Dude gets magic rods and they buff his pact blade that he summons as a minor action. I guess it falls apart when you try to exploit it, but that's hardly "nonfunctional under the rules."
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Hexblades would be fine if it weren't for the fact that the writers gave their powers both the weapon and implement keyword which makes them a mess in terms of how they interact with the rest of the game. On the other hand, hexblades ARE a ton of fun and still deal competitive damage, just not "late epic tier warlock with every possible curse-damage-buffing feat" damage. Myriad Truths posted:The way that the pact blade works isn't supported at all mechanically. It's not a big deal if you don't look too deep, but the rules get really awkward. The problem is how the pact weapon inherits the properties of the implement used to summon it. The rules aren't equipped to handle powers that are both weapon powers and implement powers. In addition, this allows you to apply enchantments to weapons that really should not have them at all because they were intended for non-weapon implements, which also causes some problems. OneThousandMonkeys posted:I really loving hate all warlocks anyway, their mechanics are always grossly over-complicated and by the end of making one I'm always like "Why didn't I just make a wizard or a sorcerer?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:39
|
|
|
Myriad Truths posted:The way that the pact blade works isn't supported at all mechanically. It's not a big deal if you don't look too deep, but the rules get really awkward. The problem is how the pact weapon inherits the properties of the implement used to summon it. The rules aren't equipped to handle powers that are both weapon powers and implement powers. In addition, this allows you to apply enchantments to weapons that really should not have them at all because they were intended for non-weapon implements, which also causes some problems. As far as the builder is concerned it doesn't, DIS requiers you to have an implement in your main hand and your off, and while the pact weapon uses the abilities of the implement when you're using it it doesn't itself have them for the purposes of using implement powers. Probably the only real problem I have with the Hexblade is the lack of feat support since drat near every warlock feat plays off of prime shot, cursing, or shadow walk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Another dumb fact about Hexblades: You can get Shadow Walk, but you have to multiclass into Assassin first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:45
|
|
|
We haven't faced the feat support problem. We're playing heroic tier Essentials only (well, except for the player who really really wanted to play a PHB2 barbarian), and the hexblade player has been nothing but excited about the kind of damage he does.Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Because nothing says Fun like popping a minion and Rod of Corruptioning a room, then action-pointing Cursegrind and just laaaughing. Also nothing says "crash MapTool" like having a macro for this. Yeah, the warlock in our old campaign that went up into epic levels was a monster with cursegrind and would often clear minions even faster than the wizard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
I just want to mention again that the new Extended Zeitgeist Player's Guide has about my favorite Paragon Paths ever. Some of them might be OP, but it's just a nearly-unbroken wall of awesome. Logos - You are so good at philosophy, when you argue with the world, you win. When you argue about what someone else will do, you win. If you make an argument 1/day that the door at the end of the hallway must be unlocked, it's unlocked. Mad Shootist - You have a loving Flash Gordon style ray gun. You can make this blaster fire a loving shrink ray. You can overcharge your weapon and make it explode. Monument of War - You are a famed veteran and everyone else gets to experience your shell shock. You call up ghosts of dead soldiers and they protect you and your allies. Notorious Celebrity - Want to be a rock star? You're a rock star. You have a posse. You can summon a phantom audience so they can witness how awesome you are. Polyhistor - Smart fighter? Smart fighter. Steamsuit Pilot - YOU HAVE A STEAM POWERED MECHA SUIT OF ARMOR. Urban Empath - You're like a druid, only with cities. Applied Astronomer - You watch the planets (which = Planes in Zeitgeist, so keep that in mind) so much you can reach through to them and pull them into the world. Also, when you spend an Action Point, your next Power gets Range: Sight in case you want to shoot at the goddamn moon or something. Vekeshi Excoriant - You seek revenge for your dead goddess, what's not to love? Just ... man. I can't wait for the party to hit 11th level.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 00:20
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Mad Shootist - You have a loving Flash Gordon style ray gun. You can make this blaster fire a loving shrink ray. You can overcharge your weapon and make it explode. The other options for the blaster is Freeze Shot and Wave Shot, with wave ignoring cover on the target, and another power is literally the Super Metroid grapple beam. It is stupidly awesome and I need to play a zeitgeist game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Speaking of third party stuff, is War of the Burning Sky any good? I think the name is cool, which is 50% of the way there for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 00:34
|
|
|
ArkInBlack posted:The other options for the blaster is Freeze Shot and Wave Shot, with wave ignoring cover on the target, and another power is literally the Super Metroid grapple beam. It is stupidly awesome and I need to play a zeitgeist game. We just ran a little tower defense skill challenge/minigame as part of the first adventure, too, and it was awesome. Prison Warden posted:Speaking of third party stuff, is War of the Burning Sky any good? I think the name is cool, which is 50% of the way there for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
The glaring problem with WotC's D&D product line, especially with 4E, is a lack of really great and memorable adventures. I guess the splat book treadmill makes better business sense considering TSR's fate, but WotC's editions haven't left us with a whole lot of memorable collective stories like the TSR editions did.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 07:30
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Also, when you spend an Action Point, your next Power gets Range: Sight in case you want to shoot at the goddamn moon or something. Oh my god. Oh my god I can do the Cosmonaut build for suplexing people out of orbit at 11th level without having to wait till 30 for Cosmic Soul, this is the best 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 10:07
|
|
|
I really love Zeitgeist PPs and it's kind of a shame they're third party because I would play a Steamsuit Pilot or Logos in every game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 10:13
|
|
PeterWeller posted:The glaring problem with WotC's D&D product line, especially with 4E, is a lack of really great and memorable adventures. I guess the splat book treadmill makes better business sense considering TSR's fate, but WotC's editions haven't left us with a whole lot of memorable collective stories like the TSR editions did. I thought Scales of War was pretty neat. Mind, I never played it... just dreamed.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 13:09
|
|
|
Would Zeitgeist be a solid adventure for a DM new to 4e? I really, really like it and I've been a DM in 3.5e campaigns and a player in 4e. I'll admit it, logos sounds loving amazing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:The glaring problem with WotC's D&D product line, especially with 4E, is a lack of really great and memorable adventures. I guess the splat book treadmill makes better business sense considering TSR's fate, but WotC's editions haven't left us with a whole lot of memorable collective stories like the TSR editions did. It's pretty shameful how bad 4e published adventures were. Hashtag Yoloswag posted:I really love Zeitgeist PPs and it's kind of a shame they're third party because I would play a Steamsuit Pilot or Logos in every game. killstealing posted:Would Zeitgeist be a solid adventure for a DM new to 4e? I really, really like it and I've been a DM in 3.5e campaigns and a player in 4e. I'll admit it, logos sounds loving amazing. The biggest must-have is a nice map of the Coaltongue to kick it off right. It's a big, sprawling encounter and a sense of place is essential. The second adventure looks much harder to run, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 14:19
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Hell yeah. All we got for shared stories was Splug, who was like a Meepo also-ran. I believe someone did a line by line comparison a few years back. And from memory there's no less information on Splug - it's simply that there was more information elsewhere. quote:It's pretty shameful how bad 4e published adventures were. Late 4e adventures weren't terrible. Gardmore Abbey, The Slaying Stone, and the Monster Vault and DM's Kit adventures.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 14:55
|
|
|
That's true, but it's cold comfort, and well past the "first impression" period for most players.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 15:05
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:The glaring problem with WotC's D&D product line, especially with 4E, is a lack of really great and memorable adventures. I guess the splat book treadmill makes better business sense considering TSR's fate, but WotC's editions haven't left us with a whole lot of memorable collective stories like the TSR editions did. Genuinely, this is what LFR is for. There are some absolute dogs of adventures in there, but there are some really great ones too, and you can reasonably easily make a 1 to 30 campaign with decent adventures using modern monsters. Plus, there's some great set-piece encounters you can steal wholesale for home games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2014 23:46
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I thought Scales of War was pretty neat. Mind, I never played it... just dreamed. I've been running it the past two and a half years. The whole of heroic tier and the first paragon adventure are an utter blast, the rest of paragon starts to drag as it's using the old monster maths. Epic has been a real upswing though, I think they switched over to the updated maths for it. There were also some great setpieces, like a battle up a staircase while the room is filling with boiling water, or the entire first paragon adventure which is an extradimensional scooby doo chase against the bad guy who's been harrying the party since level 1. It has its low points, for sure, but the highs have been pretty great.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Genuinely, this is what LFR is for. There are some absolute dogs of adventures in there, but there are some really great ones too, and you can reasonably easily make a 1 to 30 campaign with decent adventures using modern monsters. Plus, there's some great set-piece encounters you can steal wholesale for home games. Ahh, okay cool. I've never really looked into the organized play stuff because I have always had a good home group. They really should sell those adventures as modules then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:22
|
|
|
Sell them? http://livingforgottenrealms.com/ They're free, loving download them quick before they take them down. (yes, they probably could have made money selling them, but in the long run I suspect they made more out of DDI subs for people playing them, because a lot fewer people would have been playing if they cost money)
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Someone who has actually, you know, played these should make a top ten or top thirty list. Maybe just list the best three or four for each tier. There are like, three billion modules on that site, there's no way I have time to read a bunch just to find a good one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:33
|
|
|
In short: the CALI series, the NETH series, the WATE series are all pretty decent to start off with, plus a few of the important CORE adventures that set up and foreshadow the epic campaign. Between those (and the SPEC mods related to them) you can get a solid campaign going. I'd generally advise against anything earlier than year 2 adventures and even then, only H1 and h2, probably) without updating the monster maths. One of these days I keep meaning to actually work out a full 1-20 campaign using only decent and important mods. Plus, the Epic campaign is pretty fun, well-written and in places they hit the cinematic aspects of Epic really well. The major thing it suffers from is the necessity of country-hopping to keep up with the decent adventures, but that's fairly easy to get around if you don't give a gently caress about realmslore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:47
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Sell them? That's cool. Thanks. By sell them, I mean in addition to providing them for organized play. I would have happily paid for decent 4E adventures, especially FR ones. Even if I didn't run them, they'd be a nice source of ideas and inspiration. I'm sure there are enough other people like me to have made that worth WotC's effort, and then people like me wouldn't criticize WotC's product line for its lack of decent adventures.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
Either WotC has taken the LFR page down, or the links on that site are broken.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
Gau posted:Either WotC has taken the LFR page down, or the links on that site are broken. It works fine for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
I mean the links to the LFR Adventure Archive found here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 01:55
|
|
|
Oh my bad. I clicked some of the zip file links and they worked, so I assumed they all worked.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 02:02
|
|
|
Yeah, the Adventure Archive which contains some of the VERY old year 0 and 1 adventures has been down for a while. But all the zip files still work fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2014 18:55
|
|
|
So I've been reading some of the Stormlight Archives lately. If I'm reading Zeitgeist's mecha suit Paragon Path correctly, it straight up allows someone to make Shardplate (magical powered armour). I think I have my player hook.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
Prison Warden posted:So I've been reading some of the Stormlight Archives lately. If I'm reading Zeitgeist's mecha suit Paragon Path correctly, it straight up allows someone to make Shardplate (magical powered armour). 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2014 02:06
|
|
|
I'd also add, though, that basically any plate-wearing character (and a good number of others) could be flavoured as Shardplate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2014 09:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 8, 2024 05:02 |
|
|
Robots sound so much cooler than the campaign I'm running... Speaking off, would love some ideas! So the party split up last time because of real life absences, the thri keen rogue was left on the boat, and the dwarf slayer, cleric, and sorceror investigated talk of some ruins and encountered an orc dig site. Combat ensued, and the party was actually taken down, slayer and cleric were knocked out, and the sorceror assumed his rat form and fled down a hole. Now he has a rescue mission, I let him take a five minute rest, but figured the other two are hardly in a rest state. That seem unfair? I might say that the orcs aren't doing much other than prodding/antagonising them, personally not a fan of torture even though this party has been going up and down the coast murdering their way through dozens and dozens of orc mercenaries and several camps, while the leader went into the ruins for nefarious reasons. Got to find a reason to bring the rogue and potential other person along as well. They've got a large ship crewed by fairly ne'er do wells, might let them all come in and have an enormous melee?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2014 09:42
|
|
