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meat sweats posted:My "hard stance" is that CFA supporting groups which literally engage in imprisoning gay teens in remote camps for "conversion therapy" or passing laws mandating the death penalty for homosexuality is wrong, and that CFA's continued blasting of its "pro-family faith" message makes it abundantly clear that the corporation, and its Christian supporters, consider the decision on eating there to be a referendum on gay rights. Do you have any hard evidence to support your assertion that CFA is still funding these groups? Exodus doesn't even exist anymore, is there another ex-gay group that CFA is covertly funding now?
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Mar 20, 2014 00:54
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meat sweats posted:Again, my argument IS the pragmatic one: Just don't support outright murder and torture. Who is doing that? Because it has been proven that currently, that isn't the case with that company. Cathy may still donate money to it, there's no evidence either way as to whether he does, but it has already been proven that money from the company is no longer donated unless it's from that athletes thing. People can change, believe it or not. Your argument of "BUT THEY LIED ONCE" is invalid, because by that logic everybody here are permanent liars just because we all stole from the cookie jar and blamed it on Sally that one time, and should thus never be trusted again. meat sweats posted:My "hard stance" is that CFA supporting groups which literally engage in imprisoning gay teens in remote camps for "conversion therapy" or passing laws mandating the death penalty for homosexuality is wrong, and that CFA's continued blasting of its "pro-family faith" message makes it abundantly clear that the corporation, and its Christian supporters, consider the decision on eating there to be a referendum on gay rights. 1. He publicly admitted he wished he never addressed the issue, regrets it, and is refusing to touch the subject again. 2. That entire last paragraph is baffling. That equivalent is far from being equivalent, and is actually a strawman. And plus, nobody's making the argument yet again. There are numerous reasons why people should not eat at Chick-Fil-A. I don't hold grudges in terms of old news, which is what their donations were; granted, their discrimination in hiring, gross chicken, etc. are still great reasons to hold grudges and not to eat there. Your alternative is "eat elsewhere", yet you have no idea if the possible alternative option a person takes is also bad (slaughterhouses or other places with animal cruelty, Papa John's or other places where workers are threatened with intimidation tactics, etc), nor do you care. And your rudeness towards anybody with actual complaints whether on your side or not is unnecessary, and if anything, distances people away from all of our actual causes. You are painting yourself as the good guy here despite calling the oppressed evil and lacking dignity, and you believe (and at least a few others here believe) you deserve sympathy and respect for that? Hardly.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:54
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MaxxBot posted:Do you have any hard evidence to support your assertion that CFA is still funding these groups? Exodus doesn't even exist anymore, is there another ex-gay group that CFA is covertly funding now? Their taxes post-controversy were revealed. From the $3.6 mil or so they had donated to anti-LGBT companies etc in 2010 and '11, it dropped 99.2% to $25,000 in 2012. WHUH OH, GUESS THE TAXMAN LIED Said $25,000 was to Fellowship of Christian Athletes, who said gays can be saved. Which is still bad and absolutely deserving of criticism, but stale cake compared to the Uganda Kill Gays bill and forced healing.
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Mar 20, 2014 00:59
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SubponticatePoster posted:I think it's an even dumber premise, that once the gays can get married guys will just go and suck all the dicks because it's easier than raising kids. If recent republican politician or evangelical preacher scandals are anything to go by, it appears that all the married men who want to suck cocks on the side are already doing it anyway.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:02
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quote:Attorneys for the state also argued that no one is depriving homosexual citizens of access to marriage; rather, such individuals could but "for good reason" choose not to exercise that right. Is this an actual thing someone said in court? This seems beyond blatant satire at this point. This feels like joke book material. I can't even fathom this 
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Mar 20, 2014 01:05
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meat sweats posted:Again, my argument IS the pragmatic one: Just don't support outright murder and torture. Just don't support the MOST evil company out there. Anything less than that is within the range of civil disagreement and compromise. Your argument is "literally do nothing whatsoever and denounce anyone who asks for the bare minimum as an unrealistic extremist." You realized this started when some rando dude said 'hey I went to Chick Fil A because I think they stopped funding that poo poo' and NFI said "Yea I kinda don't give a poo poo" and then you cam in trying to call him a sellout because he doesn't have a meltdown that a lovely chicken place still gives a little money to some kinda harmless anti-gay groups (the worst offender, as mentioned, currently being FCA which has the stance of 'yea gays can be saved but whatever'). Crazy question what have you actually done, besides not buy lovely chicken, because you're the one trying to whip your dick out here? Also if you think CFA is the 'most evil company' even just in the realm of fast food, you are a literal baby.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:05
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Christ stop engaging meat sweats peoplecruft posted:I'm having trouble figuring out what this is supposed to mean. By "personal individual interests" are they asserting homos want to enter into betrothal out of selfishness? I read it in the same sense why "allies" are so important, in that gay marriage is a self-serving proposition. The gays support gay marriage so they can gay marry. Congress supports setting senator's wages so they can give themselves raises. And so on. At the most simplistic form (and what other form is there of course) it's just the gays wanting to marry so they can get all the tax breaks. Which is, of course, ridiculous because it ignores all the effects that integrating LGBT couples into "real society" rather than leaving the deviants on the wayside to be brought out whenever someone needs to say something snarky on television. Similarly, gays are all about the gay sex because they're gays. And in some places that is true, because its areas where gay relationships will get you straight up goddamn murdered. They're not focusing on the actual physical aspect because "that's all we think about", it's because it's the only thing separating us from heterosexual couples. In short, the defense has an understanding of LGBT dynamics that rivals a CoD kiddy on Xbox Live.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:10
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VitalSigns posted:If recent republican politician or evangelical preacher scandals are anything to go by, it appears that all the married men who want to suck cocks on the side are already doing it anyway. Well, I mean This isn't exactly a recent thing. It's bigger now than ever, but it's certainly been happening for a lengthy time period. Morter posted:Is this an actual thing someone said in court? This seems beyond blatant satire at this point. This feels like joke book material. I expected to find this on The Onion and was shocked when I couldn't.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:18
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Sweeney Tom posted:Your alternative is "eat elsewhere", yet you have no idea if the possible alternative option a person takes is also bad (slaughterhouses or other places with animal cruelty Oh my god. "Yeah, this one place literally wants me dead, but the other one gets their meat from the place where meat is obtained! Chickens are morally equivalent to homosexuals. Better, really." You're making the same stupid argument as the Wendy's thing -- "anything that someone considers to be Bad Thing is exactly equivalent to every other Bad Thing, therefore since we cannot avoid doing Bad Thing no matter what, trying to be moral even in the most basic and trivial way possible is a delusion." It's garbage ethics. Obviously, if CFA is not doing the things they have been doing, the parameters of the argument change, but excuse me if I don't believe them based on a single tax filing when they have lied about this exact issue in the very recent past and continue to do so right now ("this Chick-Fil-A is not affiliated with the main corporation", my rear end). That's NOT the same thing as "cookie jar" or whatever. That they have a coordinated strategy of telling CFA outposts in liberal areas to put up (corporate printed and shipped, no doubt) signs outright lying about the relationship between the franchise and the corporation says that lying about their gay rights stance is a continuing CFA policy.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:19
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Morter posted:Is this an actual thing someone said in court? This seems beyond blatant satire at this point. This feels like joke book material. SubponticatePoster posted:I read Utah's response and about fell down laughing. I'm beginning to believe they're purposely sabotaging their own defense of the ban it was so bad. It reads like some poo poo from the 1920's.  all day.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:22
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So in other words you believe CfA are committing tax fraud? Like, not even creative accounting, but straight up fraud?
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Mar 20, 2014 01:26
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Morter posted:Is this an actual thing someone said in court? This seems beyond blatant satire at this point. This feels like joke book material. I've heard that line a large part of my life, spoken unironically. Hell, I probably said it a couple times before I realized what a stupid poo poo I was in virtually my entire worldview. Being a bigot goes hand in hand with being a disingenuous, stupid shithead.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:43
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Pope Guilty posted:So in other words you believe CfA are committing tax fraud? Like, not even creative accounting, but straight up fraud? Do you believe the CFA franchise with "no connection to the main corporation" is committing fraud by claiming to be a CFA franchise? Someone is definitely lying.
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Mar 20, 2014 01:51
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Isn't the fact that their CEO is a scumbag who gave money to groups that helped pass kill the gays bills in Africa (a decision he's not actually sorry for, he's just sorry he was so public about it) enough of a reason to keep boycotting them? It's not like people are asking you to be attached by German Shepards and for hoses. Is not eating lovely fried chicken that much of a sacrifice?
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Mar 20, 2014 02:14
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Morter posted:Is this an actual thing someone said in court? This seems beyond blatant satire at this point. This feels like joke book material. Let's face it. There are about 0 valid arguments for maintaining straight marriage only. There's no point in doing anything beyond vague pleas to emotion or tradition to continue to restrict gay marriage.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:17
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Naked Lincoln posted:Isn't the fact that their CEO is a scumbag who gave money to groups that helped pass kill the gays bills in Africa (a decision he's not actually sorry for, he's just sorry he was so public about it) enough of a reason to keep boycotting them? It's not like people are asking you to be attached by German Shepards and for hoses. Is not eating lovely fried chicken that much of a sacrifice? Well, as I said, there are any number of companies that employ people who say or personally support bad things and there's no point in singling out one from another on that basis. Chick Fil A is different because the *corporation* does those things; there is no other company of even a tenth its size that so directly supports such evil practices towards sexual minorities. I'm going to need more than a single year's tax return from a company that has repeatedly lied and tried to play both sides of this issue in the very recent past to say that this has changed; absent that, there is a stark reason that Chick Fil A was singled out as opposed to Company X whose CFO personally hates gays.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:21
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So the answer is yes you think they commited literal tax fraud, you should go to the feds with this case. Not even going to the fact that every gay news site and such has reported on them removing the funding and all, so they're in on this too, man there's a lot of us gays who are fake gay activists, thank god you're here.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:37
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Just because it's not on ONE tax return doesn't mean they aren't finding a different way to get the money there or just taking a year off the donations to fool gullible people like you. We don't know which foundations inside foundations inside foundations that CFA funds are actually doing what; until someone who isn't just looking to blindly accept the random reversal of people who literally believe the same things as the Westboro Baptist Church looks into it, believing it is just Pollyanaish. "Large corporations never lie or commit tax fraud" --a progressive activist
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Mar 20, 2014 02:46
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Meat sweats is being pretty bad about it, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to go to CFA even after they stopped funding that kind of stuff. Leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth ( ).
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Mar 20, 2014 02:51
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Meat sweats is being pretty bad about it, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to go to CFA even after they stopped funding that kind of stuff. Leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth ( There is literally no one saying it's 'bad' not to, eat whatever the gently caress you want, people are saying Meat is being an idiot going into tumblr hysterics talking about how right now if you buy a lovely chicken sandwich (hey dumbasses just marinate the chicken in pickle juice and do it at home) you're LITERALLY FUNDING DEATH CAMPS FOR GAYS. No one ITT is taking some kinda 'you have to buy CFA's lovely chicken' stance, more 'stop being a hysterical weirdo about it'.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:54
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Tatum Girlparts posted:There is literally no one saying it's 'bad' not to, eat whatever the gently caress you want, people are saying Meat is being an idiot going into tumblr hysterics talking about how right now if you buy a lovely chicken sandwich (hey dumbasses just marinate the chicken in pickle juice and do it at home) you're LITERALLY FUNDING DEATH CAMPS FOR GAYS. No one ITT is taking some kinda 'you have to buy CFA's lovely chicken' stance, more 'stop being a hysterical weirdo about it'. Exactly this. If you don't want to eat there, don't. There's plenty of legitimate reasons not to. Just don't exaggerate about it, and don't think that just because a person lied once, a company committed tax fraud (risking decades of jail in the process) about their practices being over and will continue to lie forever about it being over just so you'll buy his loving bad chicken.
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Mar 20, 2014 02:59
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Tatum Girlparts posted:There is literally no one saying it's 'bad' not to, eat whatever the gently caress you want, people are saying Meat is being an idiot going into tumblr hysterics talking about how right now if you buy a lovely chicken sandwich (hey dumbasses just marinate the chicken in pickle juice and do it at home) you're LITERALLY FUNDING DEATH CAMPS FOR GAYS. No one ITT is taking some kinda 'you have to buy CFA's lovely chicken' stance, more 'stop being a hysterical weirdo about it'. Tumblr hysterics is a good way of putting it. Meat, have you thought of a Facebook event or a change.org petition to address this?
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Mar 20, 2014 03:03
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Meat sweats is being pretty bad about it, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to go to CFA even after they stopped funding that kind of stuff. Leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth ( I've said it before and I'll say it again, gently caress them for not being open on Sundays already. 
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Mar 20, 2014 03:05
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So with the Michigan thing, is it expected to be appealed when the ban is overturned? I really just want to see at least one more state checked off for good before summer starts (wish PA would be one, but gently caress my state letting me marry apparently because we suck more than any other northeast state  ), and it sucks to see the list's additions be halted because of bigots struggling against the inevitable.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:08
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There will almost always be appeals. The system is built assuming for appeals to be common.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:22
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If you're not aware that "gay bootcamps" for teenage kids of Christians are a thing, and that they amount to little more than torture of gay teenagers until they promise to stop being gay, and that the groups Chick-Fil-A donates to are heavily involved in those, then you do not know what you are talking about on this issue. Similarly, they are a major funding source for the American right's partnership with Uganda to pass the kill-the-gays bill. Again, this is a real thing, not an exaggeration. This is what I mean when I say that Internet leftists treat homosexuality as a fetish and can only muster up so much caring for real issues. It's NOT the same thing as being into S&M or a polyamorist or a furry, because there IS substantial real-world persecution for it, including the above. Just looking at this as "hey man everyone have sex with who you want" totally obscures the real differences between homosexuality and fetishes, and papers over the real problems with how sexual minorities are treated in Christian contexts. It's not just about yelling at celebrities for using mean words or working to get people married to each other, and I don't think some people in this thread get this. The Tumblr comparison is loathsome because the majority of people in this thread would flip the gently caress out if someone questioned the legitimacy of "demisexuality" or why MTF transgenders should be allowed to compete in women's sports, but this clear-cut real life-and-death issue gets dismissed as made-up because you can't fit it into your framework of "oh, grandma will come around on the gays eventually, just like she will accept that I am dating my Dalek headmate." You just want to treat everything as uninformed people needing to loosen up about sex, and you don't know the sort of real, active evil that is going on out there.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:29
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meat sweats posted:The Tumblr comparison is loathsome because the majority of people in this thread would flip the gently caress out if someone questioned the legitimacy of "demisexuality" Really? Absolutely no one takes demisexuality seriously dude.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:32
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Sweeney Tom posted:So with the Michigan thing, is it expected to be appealed when the ban is overturned? Our government called in witnesses who's argument was "gays go to hell" they'll be appealing.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:34
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Can we shut the gently caress up about fried chicken, please?
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Mar 20, 2014 03:40
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meat sweats posted:This is what I mean when I say that Internet leftists treat homosexuality as a fetish and can only muster up so much caring for real issues. It's NOT the same thing as being into S&M or a polyamorist or a furry, because there IS substantial real-world persecution for it, including the above. Cool, thanks for clearing up something that was already cleared up on page 1! Gen. Ripper fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 03:40
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Our government called in witnesses who's argument was "gays go to hell" they'll be appealing. drat. When's the quickest the next failed appeal could be then? This year will be off to a slower start than 2013 if we don't get at least one more state done by summer. I know about Texas, but that's probably happening late-summer or so. Chris James 2 fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Mar 20, 2014 |
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Mar 20, 2014 03:40
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meat sweats, I get the impression that you're really mad and want to yell at somebody, but it would probably be better to go find the person you want to yell at instead of just yelling and hoping they hear you.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:44
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Our government called in witnesses who's argument was "gays go to hell" they'll be appealing. God if these people didn't legitimately hate me with all their soul I'd think they were just too precious.
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Mar 20, 2014 03:57
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Sweeney Tom posted:drat. When's the quickest failed appeal then? This year will be off to a slower start than 2013 if we don't get at least one more state done by summer. I know about Texas, but that's probably happening late-summer or so.
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Mar 20, 2014 04:08
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meat sweats posted:Well, as I said, there are any number of companies that employ people who say or personally support bad things and there's no point in singling out one from another on that basis. Chick Fil A is different because the *corporation* does those things; there is no other company of even a tenth its size that so directly supports such evil practices towards sexual minorities. I'm going to need more than a single year's tax return from a company that has repeatedly lied and tried to play both sides of this issue in the very recent past to say that this has changed; absent that, there is a stark reason that Chick Fil A was singled out as opposed to Company X whose CFO personally hates gays. The hell are the Koch Brothers doing then? Do you buy products from Koch Industries?
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Mar 20, 2014 05:35
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meat sweats posted:Just because it's not on ONE tax return doesn't mean they aren't finding a different way to get the money there or just taking a year off the donations to fool gullible people like you. We don't know which foundations inside foundations inside foundations that CFA funds are actually doing what; until someone who isn't just looking to blindly accept the random reversal of people who literally believe the same things as the Westboro Baptist Church looks into it, believing it is just Pollyanaish. "Just because we never see Obama pray at a mosque doesn't mean he's not a Muslim! Who knows if he had a secret mosque under the oval office!" You think exactly like conservatives you hate so much. The only difference is where you stand on the issues. You focus more on punishing the ones who had wronged you instead of on the change in their stance. If someone had an opinion you don't like or think is wrong, saying so means you are voicing your opinion. If you continued to hog them and strongarm them into changing their stance, you're being a child throwing a temper tantrum. Being called a child while acting like a child is not being bullied. Grow up if you want people to take you seriously.
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Mar 20, 2014 11:28
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Lots of posts in this thread something serious must ha- Oh. Goons have made a couple hundred posts about chicken.
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Mar 20, 2014 14:32
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Deuce posted:Lots of posts in this thread something serious must ha- It's kind of fun watching the anti-equality side crumble. I just wish it would do it a tiny bit quicker. Then we'll be free to fight about fried chicken.
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Mar 20, 2014 14:44
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It'll be a gay utopia where everybody falls in love, has a cute wedding, and then has a barbecue for the reception.
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Mar 20, 2014 15:32
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wid posted:"Just because we never see Obama pray at a mosque doesn't mean he's not a Muslim! Who knows if he had a secret mosque under the oval office!" Blah blah blah gently caress chick-fil-a, burn it down and salt the earth. Merely stopping isn't enough
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Mar 20, 2014 16:45
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