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Knuc U Kinte posted:The HRE wasn't a real empire. It was the empire. It was what western Europeans meant when they said "the empire." Sure, by the end of the medieval period it was developing into "The Kingdom of the Germans by another name" but it certainly didn't start out that way. Or are you just being clever and channeling Voltaire or something? 
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Mar 21, 2014 09:49
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Torrannor posted:
Not the HRE.
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Mar 21, 2014 09:49
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DStecks posted:I don't think there's any way to transition between forms of government in Ironman, but there's no reason why you couldn't create a vassal muslim merchant republic. I've done it before. Making dynasty member a patrician disinherits them, but I think republics could still be inherited by landed feudal. Could try something like creating a republic with your dynasty member and then killing off your family members until you inherit it through seniority.
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Mar 21, 2014 10:18
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Some weirdness happened just now. I was fighting off a Jihad for Anatolia, and doing well (somewhere around +60%, around +30% from battles and +30% just for not losing Anatolian holdings), when I got a popup that said the Caliph had won the Jihad. I looked around, and I still have all my Anatolian holdings, and the religion display isn't showing any penalties for losing a Jihad, so I'm not sure what the hell happened. Anybody else seen this?
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Mar 21, 2014 13:22
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ulmont posted:Some weirdness happened just now. Yes, albeit not as a defender. What else were you doing at the time the Jihad was going on?
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Mar 21, 2014 13:42
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Veryslightlymad posted:Yes, albeit not as a defender. What else were you doing at the time the Jihad was going on? Not much. I fought one minor offensive war against a different sultanate, which ended months before the jihad did, but aside from that was just spamming retinue replacements and doing rebel control. I did notice the remnant Georgian Byzantines seemed to be invading and the caliphate fracturing, so maybe the caliph ate a decadence revolt or something else triggered a "we lose" event that just happens to have the wrong picture.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:03
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EightDeer posted:The Holy Roman Emperor had the King of Bohemia as a vassal. Also the Kingdom of Italy and Burgundy.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:48
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Does anyone else think that civil war warscore needs a serious rework? Now that I actually have to fight difficult ones since I'm playing Ironman, there is nothing more frustrating than losing 40% warscore because the rebels occupied a castle and city in bumfuck nowhere while you route their armies across the entire world. I recently defeated a revolt in my Alexiad ironman game as my regency'd new ruler against rebels that had roughly the same number of forces as me and lasted for-loving-ever. At one point I had something like +84% warscore from battles, but because the rebels occupied some loyalist castle in Sinai, I was forced to play whack a mole cleanup against a myriad of 200-person-strong rebel armies while trying to retake the occupied castle on the other end of the empire. I can totally understand taking significant warscore hits when I lose holdings that are part of my demense, but getting hosed over over by losing castles at the edge of the world feels bad, man. I'm hoping that the new "single rebel realm" mechanics in the coming patch will make the rebel forces act more in unison and less like a disorganized mob, because civil wars can feel artificially lengthened with the way they work now.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:09
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ulmont posted:Some weirdness happened just now. I've seen it happen to the AI a few times.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:57
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DrPop posted:Does anyone else think that civil war warscore needs a serious rework? Now that I actually have to fight difficult ones since I'm playing Ironman, there is nothing more frustrating than losing 40% warscore because the rebels occupied a castle and city in bumfuck nowhere while you route their armies across the entire world. I recently defeated a revolt in my Alexiad ironman game as my regency'd new ruler against rebels that had roughly the same number of forces as me and lasted for-loving-ever. At one point I had something like +84% warscore from battles, but because the rebels occupied some loyalist castle in Sinai, I was forced to play whack a mole cleanup against a myriad of 200-person-strong rebel armies while trying to retake the occupied castle on the other end of the empire. I hate how they swarm like ants in all directions, with just enough troops to capture holdings, and they all immediately run when your army approach any of them. I have to split up my stack into 6 smaller ones so I can caputure a place while harrasing them so much they can't sit on anything long enough to capture it.
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Mar 21, 2014 17:09
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Pyromancer posted:Making dynasty member a patrician disinherits them, but I think republics could still be inherited by landed feudal. Yeah, it can happen, it just requires some seriously bizarre circumstances. I think Genoa once inherited France in one of my games, resulting in a short-lived Most Serene Republic of France. On that note, I think there should really be a different primary localization for king-tier republics, since "Most Serene Republic" was an exclusively Italian term. Also seconding whoever said that mega-dukes should get cosmetic "archduke" titles.
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Mar 21, 2014 17:26
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ulmont posted:Some weirdness happened just now. Are you still at war? Remember, there's two Caliphs - one for the Sunni religion and one for the Shia religion, and the two can call Jihads completely independently of one another. Maybe two jihads were going on at the same time and the one that wasn't targeting you won victory?
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Mar 21, 2014 18:20
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Got Elective Monarchy in France, my ruler is the designated heir. The King dies - then my Duke dies three days later! 
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Mar 21, 2014 18:35
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Main Paineframe posted:Are you still at war? Remember, there's two Caliphs - one for the Sunni religion and one for the Shia religion, and the two can call Jihads completely independently of one another. Maybe two jihads were going on at the same time and the one that wasn't targeting you won victory? Not at war with any Caliphs, no; I only had one Jihad going. The perpetual war with the Catholic Uprising on Mallorca, on the other hand, is still alive and well.
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Mar 21, 2014 18:41
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ulmont posted:Some weirdness happened just now. This happened in one of my games too, I believe that a liege change caused it. Since jihads, like all wars, need to be declared against an individual/title, I think what happened is that a local Muslim ruler managed to vassalize whoever held the title that the jihad was declared on, or otherwise put the jihad-ed title into Muslim hands.
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Mar 21, 2014 18:49
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I've been thinking of doing an enatic game - starting off as a Cathar, having the regime (including vassals) as all-enatic succession, with the end goal of a female vassal Pope for the invasion casus belli against the MRAs of the medieval world. All with minimal use of cheat codes. I have no real idea how to start - presumably I'd use the ruler designer unless there is some really good character to play, and start off with a decent enough powerbase to start declaring holy wars against the evil Catholics but not have to worry about being invaded myself. Any suggestions?
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Mar 21, 2014 18:58
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monster on a stick posted:I've been thinking of doing an enatic game - starting off as a Cathar, having the regime (including vassals) as all-enatic succession, with the end goal of a female vassal Pope for the invasion casus belli against the MRAs of the medieval world. All with minimal use of cheat codes. Cathars don't have popes I'm afraid. You could have a Cathar female bishop of Rome, but she wouldn't be a pope.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:10
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monster on a stick posted:I have no real idea how to start - presumably I'd use the ruler designer unless there is some really good character to play, and start off with a decent enough powerbase to start declaring holy wars against the evil Catholics but not have to worry about being invaded myself. Any suggestions? IIRC the Cathars were protected by a count or duke of Toulouse during the Albigensian crusade even though he himself was supposedly not Cathar, but that might be a good place to start, build up your base through the Occitan regions and use your councilors to keep France from being a real power by making sure those northern French lords are always fighting one another, then gobble them up one by one.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:11
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monster on a stick posted:I've been thinking of doing an enatic game - starting off as a Cathar, having the regime (including vassals) as all-enatic succession, with the end goal of a female vassal Pope for the invasion casus belli against the MRAs of the medieval world. All with minimal use of cheat codes. The thing about ruler design is that it always comes with a nasty surprise: the guy your custom ruler replaced? He still exists, has a claim on your title, and your vassals probably like him a lot more than you; especially if you're, you know, a heretic, a woman, or both of those things.  If I had to pick a start for that, it would be somewhere at the periphery of Catholic power. Ireland is the most obvious choice, but somewhere in Eastern Europe or the Balkans might not be half-bad either. If you're feeling especially brave, Galicia in 1066 would keep your Catholic neighbours to an absolute minimum, but you would have to deal with JimenaBlob trying to restore their cousin to power. Asturias 867 would probably be Ultra-Hard-Mode, because if the internal politics didn't get you, the Umayyads or the Karlings would.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:12
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marktheando posted:Cathars don't have popes I'm afraid. You could have a Cathar female bishop of Rome, but she wouldn't be a pope. Are you sure? I've seen screenshots of Cathar popes, though you'd have to make Catholicism a heresy first. Though maybe they are running the heresy expansion mod. DStecks posted:The thing about ruler design is that it always comes with a nasty surprise: the guy your custom ruler replaced? He still exists, has a claim on your title, and your vassals probably like him a lot more than you; especially if you're, you know, a heretic, a woman, or both of those things. THAT I didn't know. I'll have to pick someone unpopular and without a lot of family to back up the claim. (Speaking of which, what's the current consensus on the best 'bad' traits for the ruler designer? I definitely want the good traits (genius, grey eminence) but don't want her to start at 40 years old.) quote:If I had to pick a start for that, it would be somewhere at the periphery of Catholic power. Ireland is the most obvious choice, but somewhere in Eastern Europe or the Balkans might not be half-bad either. If you're feeling especially brave, Galicia in 1066 would keep your Catholic neighbours to an absolute minimum, but you would have to deal with JimenaBlob trying to restore their cousin to power. Asturias 867 would probably be Ultra-Hard-Mode, because if the internal politics didn't get you, the Umayyads or the Karlings would. I was thinking about Ireland, mostly because (assuming I won holy wars against neighbors, which I think I can declare as a heretic?) it would help knock down Catholic MA and hopefully make things a bit easier. Plus no Karling clown car to deal with, at least right away, and everyone else would be too busy dealing with Ivar the Boneless. I never did this in the game, but I remember that if I won a holy war, I'd take over whatever county/duchy was contested. One thing I never tried was changing succession laws for those areas before dishing out the titles, but this would be possible right? Would I have to wait 10 years for that particular holding to change to enatic?
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Mar 21, 2014 19:29
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monster on a stick posted:I never did this in the game, but I remember that if I won a holy war, I'd take over whatever county/duchy was contested. One thing I never tried was changing succession laws for those areas before dishing out the titles, but this would be possible right? Would I have to wait 10 years for that particular holding to change to enatic? If you holy war for a duchy, it usually (always?) destroys the duchy title. So you would create it before handing it out, which will auto-set the laws to equal whatever your primary title is.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:31
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DStecks posted:This happened in one of my games too, I believe that a liege change caused it. Since jihads, like all wars, need to be declared against an individual/title, I think what happened is that a local Muslim ruler managed to vassalize whoever held the title that the jihad was declared on, or otherwise put the jihad-ed title into Muslim hands. Ok. That would make sense, since I held neither the King of Anatolia title or even any Duke title in Anatolia, only a few counties. I guess the Jihad went better against whoever had the King title.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:37
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monster on a stick posted:Are you sure? I've seen screenshots of Cathar popes, though you'd have to make Catholicism a heresy first. Though maybe they are running the heresy expansion mod. In vanilla Catharism doesn't have a religious head, though I've seen a few screenshots of Cathar popes that were made through some glitch or other. That mod seems stupid since a Cathar pope doesn't make any sense- they were very much opposed to the whole church hierarchy thing, and didn't even have any Perfecti that were higher in rank than a Bishop equivalent.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:46
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My best start as a ruler designed Cathar was Ireland in the Old Gods start. If you're a little lucky the Catholics and Norse will be too busy killing each other to squish you until you get a solid power base. Edit: beaten Talky fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 19:53
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monster on a stick posted:(Speaking of which, what's the current consensus on the best 'bad' traits for the ruler designer? I definitely want the good traits (genius, grey eminence) but don't want her to start at 40 years old.) I always always always take Wounded and Patient, no matter the character. Wounded is a temporary malus that leaves you with a small monthly prestige boost (the Scarred trait) and Patient bizarrely gives you stat boosts while costing negative points. There must be some under-the-hood penalty against patient characters, since I know from modding traits that the ruler creator's point costs are automatically generated from the trait's stats (which is why Sayyid is free). What you want to look for is any negative trait that gives you more "creator points" than it costs you in skill points. Generally, it's traits like Cynical, which gives you a small stat decrease and a negligible other malus of some variety. Another way to get points could be to give yourself a trait which makes you infertile, and investing some points into starting the game already with kids. Infertility-causing traits give you shittons of creator points, since if your kids die, it's an inevitable game over.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:06
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Content is also a very good trait if you start as a small independent ruler. The downside is negligible (you don't need the intrigue), the piety can be very strong (especially as a Muslim) and it gives something like -16 years or so in the ruler designer.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:50
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The first thing I'm planning on doing when the expansion drops is to play as the Mongols. Have they said anything concerning the Mongols for this expansion? I don't really expect new features like for Indian rulers, but it should be more interesting with more eastern territory added to the map. A new bookmark for an earlier date before the Mongols reach Persia would be cool too.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:14
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In my CK2+ Ironman game, I'm playing as the duke of Spoleto. A few years back, around 955, I was excommunicated. By 960, the Holy Roman Empire declared an excommunication war on me. Here's a territory breakdown:  As y'all can see, I control most of Italy. Still, I could only muster around 4000 troops vs. the HRE's ~8000, not to mention the thousands upon thousands of troops that their allies brought in. If this hadn't been an ironman game, I probably would have savescummed and just tried to avoid the war. But I fought it and won. gently caress yeah. This game is awesome when you manage to survive seemingly impossible odds.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:25
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Autism posted:In my CK2+ Ironman game, I'm playing as the duke of Spoleto. I love playing CK2, but man does it lead to some loving ugly borders.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:27
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Wow, a reminder why I hate the anti-blobbing of CK2+. Or are these realms just in a civil war? Also, 4 provinces in Iceland? Really?
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Mar 21, 2014 21:29
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DStecks posted:I always always always take Wounded and Patient, no matter the character. Wounded is a temporary malus that leaves you with a small monthly prestige boost (the Scarred trait) and Patient bizarrely gives you stat boosts while costing negative points. There must be some under-the-hood penalty against patient characters, since I know from modding traits that the ruler creator's point costs are automatically generated from the trait's stats (which is why Sayyid is free). Hmmm, infertile with guaranteed heirs could be useful, but I'm guessing daughters/sons will be randomly generated, so I wouldn't be able to start with the eugenics program off the bat. I was thinking excommunicated too, since it's not like there's going to be a lot of Cathars to care at the beginning, but I'm not sure who I'd ask to get rid of it once it mattered.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:35
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A few other good traits for ruler designer are slothful, because that's easy to flip in a hunt, and homosexuality. I never really notice the fertility malus, but then I always play as grey eminence anyway, and try to marry lustful people. Heck speaking of lustful that's another trait well worth picking up.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:38
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Torrannor posted:Wow, a reminder why I hate the anti-blobbing of CK2+. Or are these realms just in a civil war? Hey, FWIW I've got plenty of blobs in most of my CK2+ saves. Even had a Seljuk sultanate that held together for a long rear end time before it imploded when its ruler went Tengri (and was then Shia-Jihaded). I couldn't say anything about the Iceland provinces, though.  Autism posted:In my CK2+ Ironman game, I'm playing as the duke of Spoleto. As I've been saying in my recent posts, it's really cool how much more satisfying achieving things is when you're playing ironman, especially in CK2+. I've won a few civil wars by the skin of my teeth.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:39
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Torrannor posted:Also, 4 provinces in Iceland? Really? That's pretty accurate, since the Icelandic commonwealth was historically divided into farthings. Those borders are pure bullshit, though. here is a more accurate one.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:51
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I like how from the 867 start Byzantium basically never falls. It goes to show how much they hosed up if the CK2 AI does a better job.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:42
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Cantorsdust posted:I love playing CK2, but man does it lead to some loving ugly borders. For those of us with Pretty Borders Syndrome, which seems to be basically everybody, I wish there was some kind of mechanic that if some Duke in England somehow inherits a county in Italy, that it remains quite difficult to maintain and drifts back to its de jure owner unless you're actively pouring resources into it. I know that is fixed with high crown authority, but not everybody has that, especially realms in constant civil war. I guess that would ruin CK2 for a lot of people since you can send your chancellor anywhere to fabricate a claim. I just hate seeing one county in Iberia that belongs to some dude in Poland. The AI seems really reluctant to use the de jure CB to get counties like that back.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:45
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Playing as Byzantium and I became bitter rivals with my cousin at the age of 4 when he stole a quill from me. 16 years later my cousin asked permission to challenge his rival to a duel (me?). I refused permission and instead banished him from the realm. The very next day I got the opportunity to seduce his wife, which I took because holy poo poo. This loving game.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:50
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monster on a stick posted:I was thinking about Ireland, mostly because (assuming I won holy wars against neighbors, which I think I can declare as a heretic?) it would help knock down Catholic MA and hopefully make things a bit easier. Plus no Karling clown car to deal with, at least right away, and everyone else would be too busy dealing with Ivar the Boneless. Yeah, playing as a Cathar you can definitely declare holy wars against regular Catholics. If you're going with one of the Irish counties, immediately borrow money from the Jews and use it to hire one of the 75g mercenary companies, then use the mercenaries to holy war everyone around you. You should be able to get a considerable chunk of the island under your control before your money runs out. Once you've unified Ireland the game becomes almost boringly easy since you'll be able to holy war everyone to snag the remainder of the isles and few countries seem interested in trying to stop you. Those that do try to stop you usually don't have navies large enough to ferry their entire army over to you at once, so even if they outnumber you by a wide margin you'll be able to fight their armies piecemeal.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:09
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DrPop posted:Does anyone else think that civil war warscore needs a serious rework? Now that I actually have to fight difficult ones since I'm playing Ironman, there is nothing more frustrating than losing 40% warscore because the rebels occupied a castle and city in bumfuck nowhere while you route their armies across the entire world. I recently defeated a revolt in my Alexiad ironman game as my regency'd new ruler against rebels that had roughly the same number of forces as me and lasted for-loving-ever. At one point I had something like +84% warscore from battles, but because the rebels occupied some loyalist castle in Sinai, I was forced to play whack a mole cleanup against a myriad of 200-person-strong rebel armies while trying to retake the occupied castle on the other end of the empire. I despise those civil wars, especially when people with 100 relations with you end up in the drat faction. I mean sure I can understand a rebel army taking my capital is pretty significant but I don't understand the game saying "oh that army of 1000 rebels took a shanty town guess they win the war and there's nothing your army of 50000 can do about it"
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Mar 21, 2014 23:12
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Antinumeric posted:I like how from the 867 start Byzantium basically never falls. It goes to show how much they hosed up if the CK2 AI does a better job. It's called Byzantine politics for a reason. And I have seen them fall three times, two times to the Mongols and one amazing time to a Shi'a Muslim Caliphate that had nearly the whole de jure Arabian empire, plus a big part of Persia. That was terrifying.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:19
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