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On this page I learn that Russia took to heart the adage that you go to war as a country. I'm not sure whether I'm more  or  over some of those, but it's more visceral than "This bomb's for you, Tojo  " and the like. Given, nobody (excluding the internment of Japanese Americans) was a refugee from their homes like they were along the Eastern Front, and on top of that the E front was hellish enough to really incite that sort of "MISTER STALIN YOU HAVE MY PIGGYBANK TO AVENGE THE FATHER OF MY FAMILY" blood vengeance in civilians.Also there probably was some Soviet Army action being spun as those bastard Fascists to fan the flames. Not that they didn't do more than enough to earn the ire of practically all of Eurasia.
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Mar 21, 2014 13:29
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EvanSchenck posted:You also shouldn't overestimate the importance of regular troops and experienced officers to the conduct of the Russian Civil War, because the army had basically disintegrated as a result of the two revolutions. Most of the fighting on both sides was done by hastily thrown together irregular units. The low average quality of the soldiers involved can be demonstrated by the outsize effect of the few regulars who actually remained in action, most notably the Czech Legion, who basically cruised around Siberia trashing everything they came across until finally the Bolsheviks just let them buy their way home. The Czech Legion is still the most hilarious part of the Russian Civil War. Especially since after their deal with the Bolsheviks they left Russia through Vladivostok and basically escaped Russia by taking the long way around the world. Is there any information what happened with the legion once they reached Czechia, or they just disbanded upon coming home?
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Mar 21, 2014 13:58
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I'm reading someone's PhD thesis on Rokossovskiy: https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/handle/1826/4315 Does anyone have an opinion on it?
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Mar 21, 2014 15:10
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Cardiac posted:The Czech Legion is still the most hilarious part of the Russian Civil War. They partially disbanded tough remained a very popular and equally influential group of ARE VETERANS. Those who remained in the Army laid foundation to future cadres, and helped in the 1919 war against Poland as well as in pushing the Hungarian army out of Slovakia (considering how young the country was, these tasks were effectively 100 % up to the Legions). The legionnaire community also had their own organizations, including Legion banks, Legion insurance companies etc. catering to them, not to mention a large hierarchy of Legion social clubs. Curiously there also was an entire genre of Legionnaire fiction written by retired soldiers based on their adventures. Officers of the Legion would frequently remain in the Armed forces, or try luck in politics. Most infamous of those were Radola Gajda, Kolchak's aide, provisional Chief of the General Staff and a quasi-fascist political figure who was accused of plotting a violent coup (controversially) and brought down in one of the worst affairs of Czechoslovakian politics. Others included Gen. Jan Syrový, the PM forced to deal with the windfall of the Munich Treaty, and Ludvík Svoboda, who would lead the Czechoslovak Corps in the WWII, and become the President of Communist ČSR 1968-1975.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:22
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WEEDLORDBONERHEGEL posted:
Catchment term for foreigner IIRC. Reading a very large book on Mao, something like the untold story or some poo poo. It's outstanding the effect overbearing mothers and uninvolved (emotionally) fathers can have on the worldview of people.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:44
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AdmiralSmeggins posted:Catchment term for foreigner IIRC. Mind sharing the name of the book? I'd be very interested in learning what made Mao tick.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:34
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Phobophilia posted:Could you give details on how they pulled this off? Unfortunately no, I was wondering how myself but the book only says that they did it without any more elaboration. The only real question would be how they got supplies there, I think, since most of the "runways" they'd be flying off of in the Eastern front would just be grass or dirt in the first place.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:48
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Daysvala posted:Mind sharing the name of the book? I'd be very interested in learning what made Mao tick. Mao: The Unknown Story by Jung Chang and Ian Halliday. I cannot speak for the quality of the scholarship though. If what the book says is true he was basically a petulant little man child. Exceedingly lazy with a high opinion of his own worth and a sociopathic morality. Reads like Adolf to me.
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Mar 21, 2014 16:59
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AdmiralSmeggins posted:Mao: The Unknown Story by Jung Chang and Ian Halliday. Mao certainly had his own ideas about things, and was never a good administrator. His greatest ability was being able to deify himself to the extremely undereducated Chinese peasant, who outnumbered urban proletariats by a large degree. I think he was good at that because he legitimately thought he was a genius hero that saved China, which would explain the flood of half-baked ideas and blundering political moves he made after the Civil War. Mao's effect on the Chinese Communist Party seems to push their members to be as bland and boring as possible. They do not want another ideologue that will pull the the Red Guard poo poo and just start burning books and buildings they don't like. The whole deal behind Bo Xilai is that he was making aggressive populist moves, and so whatever happened with the Brit was fanned by the party until they could get rid of him. I guess you could compare Mao and Hitler in that neither was really an expert in anything, so their decisions were ultimately ruinous because they just went with their gut while governing millions of people.
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Mar 21, 2014 17:56
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Dopilsya posted:I might've missed it, but didn't see anyone else answer it. For the definitive Crusade history that you checked out, you're probably thinking of The Runciman (link is the 1st of 3). FAUXTON posted:I'm not sure whether I'm more
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Mar 21, 2014 18:05
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Are there any psychology analyses of Mao with regard to possible autism? That whole incompetence/arrogance combo alongside his utter petulance and inability to relate emotionally to the consequences of his actions really comes off like the story recently run about Adam Lanza. Except instead of shooting up a school Mao dragged China into a civil war.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:11
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China entered into a civil war for reasons that were far, far beyond Mao's personal choices.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:33
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Fangz posted:China entered into a civil war for reasons that were far, far beyond Mao's personal choices. Yeah, there's a whole lot of more complex things going on here. It's pretty clear his arrogance or whatever came about sometime after the Long March, when he was the only one of the Communist leader to go 'suck it up we gotta get moving.' Mostly because, before ~1927 he was one of the few to go 'all y'all are trying to apply Marx's industrial ideas to an agrarian society, we gotta skip a few steps.' Before and during the march he didn't really have time to propagandize, but marching along with the soldiers and, you know, giving them your last dumpling and poo poo tends to build a persona. Anyone who survived the Long March had a huge cachet and Mao, as the leader, soaked up a lot of that.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:51
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AdmiralSmeggins posted:Catchment term for foreigner IIRC. In a similar way to how we say "blah blah blah" to denote someone talking while you aren't (or aren't able to be) listening, Romans used "bar bar bar". So a barbarian is someone who couldn't speak the language. e: you know thinking of that its very folksy and I can't source it.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:51
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Any word about Mao being extremely averse of bathing and washing? I've heard that in his late years he was so extremely smelly that his aides had to wash him while he was asleep. All this while he was crazy for really young girls, which he blessed with private "audiences".
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Mar 21, 2014 19:59
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CoolCab posted:e: you know thinking of that its very folksy and I can't source it. Seems legit. e: JaucheCharly posted:Any word about Mao being extremely averse of bathing and washing? I've heard that in his late years he was so extremely smelly that his aides had to wash him while he was asleep. All this while he was crazy for really young girls, which he blessed with private "audiences". While I'm using internet sources.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:02
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Ah yes, his private Doctor wrote a book. http://www.amazon.com/The-Private-Life-Chairman-Mao/dp/0679764437
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Mar 21, 2014 20:56
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Don Gato posted:That literally what I just said, only with an example. No need to be so hostile saying the same thing. Yeah, sorry. I guess I misunderstood what you said. My apologies.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:09
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FAUXTON posted:Are there any psychology analyses of Mao with regard to possible autism? Autism has nothing to do with arrogance or incompetence. It's very difficult to retroactively diagnose people with any sort of disease, but assigning complex disorders like autism to theme is implausible. I wrote a lot of words about autism and retroactive diagnoses, but I realized that you should just look up the actual traits of the disorder instead of using the internet's definition of autism, or "being a weird rear end in a top hat".
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Mar 21, 2014 21:34
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Trivial little practical question here - I'm picturing the ACW, but I imagine it could apply to Napoleonic-era and for that matter most armies between the adoption of firearms and the widespread adoption of self-contained cartridges. You get woken up to go stand picket/sentry duty. Your musket is charged and primed, because otherwise you couldn't shoot anyone. You stand there for 3 or 6 hours flicking your dick and trying not to get rained on. You get relieved and come back to camp. Now what? You have a loaded weapon that can't be easily unloaded except the fast loud way. If I had to speculate, 1. Modern (and presumably earlier) muzzleloaders can use a bullet puller - basically a ramrod with a wood screw at the end. You screw it into the soft lead projectile, find some trusting person to hold the stick end, and pull. Hopefully the bullet comes out, though it's now deformed enough that it has to be re-cast. Hopefully you don't accidentally kill your buddy while doing this. 2. A designated sentry gun is passed from watch to watch. But the whole time it's being passed around, the powder is absorbing moisture from the air, so it's a toss-up if you actually have to fire it. Does anyone know how earlier armies - especially when powder and ball were precious commodities - dealt with that kind of situation?
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Mar 21, 2014 23:21
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Sweet. So, wait, does that mean he put up graffiti celebrating him inviting someone who couldn't speak the language for dinner? Because that's kind of cute.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:23
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I'm by no means an expert, but I would assume the gun wasn't actually loaded. The sentry was supposed to use the bayonet if needs be, or to cry for help. Frankly, at the ranges where you could hope to hit a man sized target with a 18th century musket with any kind of certainty you might as well just lunge and stab the guy.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:27
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I'm by no means an expert either, but 18th century muskets weren't outrageously inaccurate. If you spotted someone skulking around at 30yd, you could probably challenge him and, if you didn't like his reply, have a decent chance of hitting him. I have to admit that I don't know if sentries had charged weapons, though. That's why I asked about the whole thing 
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Mar 21, 2014 23:44
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steinrokkan posted:Besides war bonds Allied nations had to take measures that were pretty much identical to the Soviet funds, and at best only little bit better organized. That was mostly a joke that the reds were so hard up for manpower that the acquisitions was handled by children lol.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:48
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Can't you just trade your musket with the guy that came up to relieve you?
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Mar 22, 2014 00:24
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The powder might get wet and render it useless.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:29
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Musket tompions are a thing. But yeah, hogmartin, ball screws fit onto the end of a ramrod, and if you didn't have one along with your worm, your sergeant would. While it is a pain in the rear end, so is cleaning it, and you would be doing a lot of that. And "oiling" with bacon fat, probably.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:40
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How hard was it to fit a new flint onto the lock if the current one broke? I imagine that'd be the last thing you'd want to do suddenly in the middle of battle.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:41
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SeanBeansShako posted:How hard was it to fit a new flint onto the lock if the current one broke? I imagine that'd be the last thing you'd want to do suddenly in the middle of battle. I imagine you'd want to pick up a replacement musket in that instance. Or just retire to the rear.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:45
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SeanBeansShako posted:How hard was it to fit a new flint onto the lock if the current one broke? I imagine that'd be the last thing you'd want to do suddenly in the middle of battle. ISTR that each pouch of cartridges was equipped with a new flint, as standard kit for the British infantryman of the late 18th century. It wasn't a precious item, but an expendable commodity and was expected to be replaced. The flint is fit into the jaws of the cock with a little turnscrew - google "Brown Bess lock" for images. e: the flint in some of those pics is seated in the jaw and buffered with a bit of leather; this gives it better friction in the jaw and keeps it from jarring loose (like opening a stuck jar lid by wrapping it in a towel). On my PA rifle, I pounded a bullet into a flat ovoid and used lead to do the same thing because it's firmer and bounces less than leather. hogmartin fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 00:45
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SeanBeansShako posted:How hard was it to fit a new flint onto the lock if the current one broke? I imagine that'd be the last thing you'd want to do suddenly in the middle of battle.  Looks like it was pretty easy.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:50
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I don't like to post unscientific and unresearched opinions in this thread, but given how flints were issued, I'd be surprised if fitting and tuning a fresh one wasn't part of the standard battle preparation. ohgodohgodohgod please someone who knows what they're talking about back me up on this 
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Mar 22, 2014 00:58
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hogmartin posted:I don't like to post unscientific and unresearched opinions in this thread, but given how flints were issued, I'd be surprised if fitting and tuning a fresh one wasn't part of the standard battle preparation. Hahaha, same here. My posted opinion was based on my gut feeling. But it really looks pretty easy, just loosen, replace, tighten. Some internet source said that there was a flint with every 20 cartridges.
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Mar 22, 2014 01:03
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Hogge Wild posted:Hahaha, same here. My posted opinion was based on my gut feeling. But it really looks pretty easy, just loosen, replace, tighten. Oh, it's trivial to change. I've done it before. Not something I'd want to do while getting shot at, but there aren't many things I'd like to do while getting shot at except not get shot at. The one flint per 20 cartridges is the same as I'd heard. Couldn't find anywhere to cite it from, but I have seen repro cartridge pouches with the spare flint and it makes logistical sense to have a single unit of gun-bang that you can just hand out. With that many flints around, I would expect them to be replaced regularly, not used until they break.
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Mar 22, 2014 01:11
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ArchangeI posted:I'm by no means an expert, but I would assume the gun wasn't actually loaded. The sentry was supposed to use the bayonet if needs be, or to cry for help. Frankly, at the ranges where you could hope to hit a man sized target with a 18th century musket with any kind of certainty you might as well just lunge and stab the guy. hogmartin posted:Does anyone know how earlier armies - especially when powder and ball were precious commodities - dealt with that kind of situation? The Merry Marauder posted:Musket tompions are a thing. Edit: I'm looking at some things produced by reenactors and some period literature and I can't find anything about what you do with the loaded musket when the picket's relieved. Reenactment is no help because for safety reasons a lot of reenactor groups will tell their pickets neither to load nor to fix bayonets because accidentally shooting/stabbing someone in a national park in the dark is bad news, HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 05:07
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WEEDLORDBONERHEGEL posted:Oh my God, dude, just shove a handkerchief down the barrel and wrap another one (if you have two) around the lock if you want. And carry the musket muzzle down if it rains. Bad experience as a reenactor?
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Mar 22, 2014 05:18
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The Merry Marauder posted:Bad experience as a reenactor? Edit: Here we go. This is for reenactors, much of it is not period, but: draw the charges or discharge them at a target. http://www.geocities.com/capitalguards/guardmount.html This is period, but there's nothing here: http://www.64thill.org/drillmanuals/kautzs_customsofservice/enlisted/part02.htm#126 HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 05:20
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hogmartin posted:Trivial little practical question here - I'm picturing the ACW, but I imagine it could apply to Napoleonic-era and for that matter most armies between the adoption of firearms and the widespread adoption of self-contained cartridges. The Sharpe novels say that they would empty their muskets by just shooting them in the air. Seems quite plausible to me.
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Mar 22, 2014 06:43
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If you're shooting musket balls, you could probably discharge them into a large bucket of water; if it's a spherical shape rather than a bullet shape, you could probably recover the shot in one piece.
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Mar 22, 2014 06:51
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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How exactly do you unload a musket once the powder got wet? Is it easy once you get the paper out?
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Mar 22, 2014 07:00
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