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Crappy Jack posted:Pulling saves forward would screw players on next-gen systems, since there'd be no way to, say, get a save from a PS3 version of DA:O to be read on a PS4 version of DA:I. So no, they're not bothering with any sort of save import, it's all done through the Keep so as to not screw over people upgrading, since that would undeniably have a big impact on next-gen sales. I was amazed they didn't get their head out of their rear end and do something similar for Mass Effect 3. There was so much content you'd miss if you didn't import a save, mainly motherfucking Wrex, and it locked you out of Geth/Quarian peace as well as a wealth of easter eggs, conversation, and fun call-backs. Plus there were so many divergent options for major quests, especially for saving/condemning Tuchanka and killing/saving Mordin.
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Mar 23, 2014 05:38
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Ah, I see. I completely misunderstood the entire enterprise hahaha
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Mar 23, 2014 05:39
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quote:-The Inquisitor can make his/her own rifts in the fade and summon demons. And, as always, it will come with zero consequences. There will be no price paid for that power. No one will comment on it ever. It will no way affect the inquisitors morality. But everyone will still be like "MAGIC IS SO DANGEROUS! MAGES MAKE PACTS WITH DEMONS AND IT GETS EVERYONE KILLED!" pentyne posted:and it locked you out of Geth/Quarian peace Which frankly actually fits better with their story ending that machines and people just can't get along. The fact that you could get the Quarians and Geth to become friends, and then weren't allowed to throw that information in the reaper's big dumb faces was jarring. And it didn't fit with the central theme of the 3rd game and apparently the entire Mass Effect series too I guess.
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Mar 23, 2014 07:21
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COOKIEMONSTER posted:And, as always, it will come with zero consequences. There will be no price paid for that power. No one will comment on it ever. It will no way affect the inquisitors morality. But everyone will still be like "MAGIC IS SO DANGEROUS! MAGES MAKE PACTS WITH DEMONS AND IT GETS EVERYONE KILLED!" Yeah, the whole Geth/Quarian peace hinged on a refugee population up and accepting that the monsters that committed near genocide against them suddenly are willing to let bygones be bygones. It jarred with the whole "Reapers=machines wiping out organics to save future organics" but even still it was another example of a huge amount of effort, writing, coding, etc. put into a plot direction that the vast majority of people would never get the chance to see. The recent "Most gamers don't finish games" article is an arguement for 'why bother' but even still by ME3 there must have been a few hundred permutations of choice they had to write for, and offering a option to set the major plot flags from ME1 and 2 would have gone a long ways to improving the re-playability of the game. I expect that Mass Effect will get a next gen release including all 3 games and all their DLC, so anyone wanting to start from scratch can craft their own saga, but for the people waiting 2-3 years between games, being locked out of major plot options is completely stupid.
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Mar 23, 2014 07:45
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Geostomp posted:My big question is how Hawke managed to become the Viscount's right hand wo/man between the first and second acts. I know the game's story was lazy, but there's a couple of potentially very interesting steps between "nobody strikes it rich in Deeproads" and "nobody gets in tight with city's ruler". The time skips were all terrible wastes of potential, but that was the worst part of them all (yes, even worse than Meredith deciding she needed a sword made out of insanity rocks and Orsino suddenly springing into existence at the endgame). Two pages back, but this is why the unreliable narrator setting was DA2's biggest flaw. It was an attempt at hand-waving its own laziness to crafting a more complex story than they either had the time or patience to convey. If there was more detail to what exactly was happening in actual gameplay, instead of hidden away between time-skips and lore, maybe certain elements wouldn't seem so out of place or insane - like a Mage Hawke having no idea the materials Anders was getting would make a magical nuke. DA2, even if poorly written no matter how much time it could be given, was very undercooked. Hopefully anytime Verric attempts to tell a story in Inquisition, Cassandra will snark on his usual narrative faults until he shuts his trap.
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Mar 23, 2014 07:54
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Crabtree posted:If there was more detail to what exactly was happening in actual gameplay, instead of hidden away between time-skips and lore, maybe certain elements wouldn't seem so out of place or insane It's kind of funny that the thing that most explains what the hell is going on, is buried in a codex entry that you get from clicking on basically random objects. Like Hawke totally knows that Kirkwall is a gigantic sieve designed to funnel blood into a storage chamber at the bottom of the city. Knows that it is weakening the veil and causing both mages and templars to slowly go absolutely insane, as well as basically causing an inordinate number of demons to break through the veil. But Hawke doesn't bother to tell a single other person about it. Crabtree posted:like a Mage Hawke having no idea the materials Anders was getting would make a magical nuke. Mage Hawke is more rough and tumble than book learned. Anders probably had an alchemy teacher and an entire laboratory in which he was basically forced to learn. Hawke had an apostate father who likely wasn't a potions expert and didn't even have the money to buy reagents let alone time to teach alchemy principles in between tutoring two kids in basic spells and presumably working at some kind of job.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:33
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COOKIEMONSTER posted:It's kind of funny that the thing that most explains what the hell is going on, is buried in a codex entry that you get from clicking on basically random objects. Like Hawke totally knows that Kirkwall is a gigantic sieve designed to funnel blood into a storage chamber at the bottom of the city. Knows that it is weakening the veil and causing both mages and templars to slowly go absolutely insane, as well as basically causing an inordinate number of demons to break through the veil. But Hawke doesn't bother to tell a single other person about it. Rough and Tumble should have given him street smarts in what goes boom in magic at least, especially if he worked for criminals or mercs. Like a lot of BioWare games, I'm not demanding the character automatically sniff it out on their own, but I would like positive consequences for player power, skill and talent progression or reading the loving codex entries, like having enough experience causing explosions while tooling around mines or caves to know that one of those things can cause some serious damage. But maybe that's what happens when you take the intelligence stat out of a game, every piece of dialog is the stupid talking.  As for larger codex entries, the plot would have been so much better as a kind of mystery where you're adventuring around trying to figure out the larger problem of Kirkwall itself is a literal demon city that feeds on suffering and drives people mad. It would have been a better reveal that just watching everyone become maniac depressive in the most expedient way possible because all Cassy cares about is learning where Hawke could be right now. poo poo, guess this means both Cassandra and Varric are to blame for the in-game narrative problems of DA2. One kept screaming at the dwarf for both all the details, yet to hurry his dumpy rear end up to the important bits; while the other was so enamored in the idea that they are such a masterful story teller that they made the most schizophrenic account ever between Cassandra's demands and self inserting himself in as the the other real hero of Hawke's tale. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 09:03
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pentyne posted:Yeah, the whole Geth/Quarian peace hinged on a refugee population up and accepting that the monsters that committed near genocide against them suddenly are willing to let bygones be bygones. Remember the Geth were made by the Quarians who due to watching too many sci-fi movies decided to wipe them out before the Getn would rebel, but that turned out to be a mistake as it was the actual attack on the Geth the made them rebel.
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Mar 23, 2014 12:38
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Hunt11 posted:Remember the Geth were made by the Quarians who due to watching too many sci-fi movies decided to wipe them out before the Getn would rebel, but that turned out to be a mistake as it was the actual attack on the Geth the made them rebel. When the Geth started to show signs of sentience the Quarians decided to put them down because they realized anyone sentient wouldn't like too much to be a slave - and that it would inevitably lead to rebellion. I think it wasn't too bad of a plot.
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Mar 23, 2014 14:39
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Not to mention that creating sentient AIs was flat out forbidden by the Citadel Council!
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Mar 23, 2014 14:58
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Torrannor posted:Not to mention that creating sentient AIs was flat out forbidden by the Citadel Council! That was after and as a result of the Geth though.
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Mar 23, 2014 15:37
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ShineDog posted:That was after and as a result of the Geth though.
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Mar 23, 2014 15:54
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Crappy Jack posted:Pulling saves forward would screw players on next-gen systems, since there'd be no way to, say, get a save from a PS3 version of DA:O to be read on a PS4 version of DA:I. So no, they're not bothering with any sort of save import, it's all done through the Keep so as to not screw over people upgrading, since that would undeniably have a big impact on next-gen sales. An import feature wouldn't screw anyone over, software doesn't have to do just one thing. Ideally it should import your saves, if you have them, as the default settings and allow you to tweak them. If you don't have saves it could use whatever the cannon choices are and let you tweak them instead. Everyone wins.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:17
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I could have sworn I read somewhere that they were going to put an app out for the current gen systems that would let you upload your saves to Biowares own servers, then edit them via a website if you wanted, and DAI could pull from that. Re the geth above - Huh, must have forgotten that.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:22
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Darkrenown posted:An import feature wouldn't screw anyone over, software doesn't have to do just one thing. Ideally it should import your saves, if you have them, as the default settings and allow you to tweak them. If you don't have saves it could use whatever the cannon choices are and let you tweak them instead. Everyone wins. The import feature has a number of hiccups associated with it including not importing choices correctly like in ME2 and DA2. I used a fan made save generator to play around with creating different import saves for DA2, ME2, and ME3, and it worked just fine. ElrondHubbard fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 16:25
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Crabtree posted:
Never thought about it before, but uncovering the secrets of Kirkwall and trying to get the higher-ups to recognize and address the corruption would have made great first and third acts. Bioware could have even kept their nihilistic ending and have Hawke fail to convince anyone other than their closest friends/rivals that the city was serving as a demonic conduit. The idiots in charge could point fingers at each for being behind all the demons and Hawke could have got blamed for the fallout.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:29
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Darkrenown posted:An import feature wouldn't screw anyone over, software doesn't have to do just one thing. Ideally it should import your saves, if you have them, as the default settings and allow you to tweak them. If you don't have saves it could use whatever the cannon choices are and let you tweak them instead. Everyone wins. That's true, but I don't really mind. I was not going to play through DA2 another time for a different combination of triggers to import, so I am happy with the Keep. If they can't program it right then I prefer they use their time working on the game itself.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:42
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So why are people against the keep again? This simply means that I can choose what happened in my earlier games without having to hold on to my save games like they are my firstborn. Does it hurt someones feeling regarding how save game transfers should work, or what?
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Mar 23, 2014 17:11
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Sylphosaurus posted:So why are people against the keep again? This simply means that I can choose what happened in my earlier games without having to hold on to my save games like they are my firstborn. Does it hurt someones feeling regarding how save game transfers should work, or what? I think it's people that don't remember what they chose, but still want to play with Their choices. So for them a save import would be better.
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Mar 23, 2014 17:48
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Just to be clear, Keep itself will be tied to an origin account, right?
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Mar 23, 2014 17:55
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I can't wait to gently caress around with the Keep, elves status: eaten by werewolves.
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Mar 23, 2014 18:01
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ShineDog posted:I could have sworn I read somewhere that they were going to put an app out for the current gen systems that would let you upload your saves to Biowares own servers, then edit them via a website if you wanted, and DAI could pull from that. Yeah, this is what I thought was happening. I thought they also said the Keep could recognize any plot flags that ought to be mutually exclusive and fix them, that sort of thing. I mean it's not the biggest deal in the world to me or even my little sister, who is a BioWare devotee; I was just lookin to clarify. edit: ya Crabtree it made you sign in with Origin to apply for the beta Pretzel Rod Serling fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 18:02
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Crabtree posted:Two pages back, but this is why the unreliable narrator setting was DA2's biggest flaw. It was an attempt at hand-waving its own laziness to crafting a more complex story than they either had the time or patience to convey. If there was more detail to what exactly was happening in actual gameplay, instead of hidden away between time-skips and lore, maybe certain elements wouldn't seem so out of place or insane - like a Mage Hawke having no idea the materials Anders was getting would make a magical nuke. DA2, even if poorly written no matter how much time it could be given, was very undercooked. The sad thing is that "unreliable narrator" (or unreliable major character) can be an incredibly effective technique when done right - examples I can think off the top of my head include KOTOR 2's Kreia, Spec Ops: The Line's Walker (who you play!), films like Memento, etc. But it can also be a great way of being lazy since you can just say "ha, they are unreliable!" when people point out plot holes. Darkrenown posted:An import feature wouldn't screw anyone over, software doesn't have to do just one thing. Ideally it should import your saves, if you have them, as the default settings and allow you to tweak them. If you don't have saves it could use whatever the cannon choices are and let you tweak them instead. Everyone wins. As others have pointed out, Bioware doesn't have a great track record with imports, especially when they aren't 100% sure that it will carry over. Having a screen of checkboxes or something is fine if it works correctly, especially if it's major decisions only since there aren't all that many of them. Maybe the worst part would be spoiling something, e.g. if the Keep asks "did you help the Dwarf nug dealer find all the nugs?" then you know that the nug guy will make a cameo 
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Mar 23, 2014 18:21
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Well in fairness there are a ton of bullshit plot flags I don't think they ever use (some might say "all" lmao owned)
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Mar 23, 2014 18:29
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Differo Cathedra posted:Never thought about it before, but uncovering the secrets of Kirkwall and trying to get the higher-ups to recognize and address the corruption would have made great first and third acts. Bioware could have even kept their nihilistic ending and have Hawke fail to convince anyone other than their closest friends/rivals that the city was serving as a demonic conduit. The idiots in charge could point fingers at each for being behind all the demons and Hawke could have got blamed for the fallout. Bonus points if Bioware basically treated the city like an inactive reaper. And I do mean inactive, it doesn't have a recognizable voice actor who cackles when Hawke fails to shut it down. It's a silent citywide machine that is just doing its function of providing for magisters that no longer live in Kirkwall. It wasn't built to be selective in its punishment nor built with an off switch. And these factors will make it all the more Machiavellian in its grand design, and a little bit ironic, when Hawke is trying to slowly grind out political favors against Kirkwall's greatest strength, perfect efficiency. It'd also help add some "umph" to the ending by having Hawke desperately try to figure out who could be manipulating Kirkwall, only to see that it was the city itself. It wasn't just uncooperative mages, overzealous Templars, prideful church demagoguery, insane party members or greedy nobility. They all fed the same thing and they all died in one spectacular blood magic orgy which created a perpetual magic font, a great tear in the veil, that will give all the demons and energy any Magister could ever need. Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:edit: ya Crabtree it made you sign in with Origin to apply for the beta drat. Oh well, looks like I'll play Inquisition on PS4. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 19:07
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Furism posted:When the Geth started to show signs of sentience the Quarians decided to put them down because they realized anyone sentient wouldn't like too much to be a slave - and that it would inevitably lead to rebellion. I think it wasn't too bad of a plot. I dunno, I think reacting to a Geth hearing a religious ceremony and then Asking if it has a soul by starting a massive genocide against a race they created after it had gained sentience pretty much made the Quarian's being forced off their own world justified. I played ME3 twice, once with importing and one without, and while importing I made them reconcile I sided with the Geth over literally genocidal people with bad immune systems. Especially since the Geth explicitly never showed any sort of violence before hand. This is a big flaw with recent bio ware writing - they want to make groups sympathetic (mages, quarians) or justified (templars) and just end up making everyone look like a giant idiot. DA2 was bad because oh persecuted mages! But wait, those persecuted mages are.justifies! Oh, but the leader of the local templars is pushing them to it! Poor mages! Oh, but Orisino decides that all non mages.are trash and also takes up blood magic, even if you are in his side. The best ending is to kill both all templars and all mages in DA2.
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Mar 23, 2014 19:34
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I'm hoping Keep gives pretty good explanations of the choices kinda like that ME2 comic thing did. I totally forgot what the circumstances actually were for each choice when playing around with Gibb's stuff.
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Mar 23, 2014 20:00
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How on earth are they going to pull off Hawke and the Warden making an appearance? Especially the Warden, my Warden was a dwarf girl from the dwarf slums who fought as a dual wielding warrior, something that no longer exists in the Dragon Age universe.
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Mar 23, 2014 20:26
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Penakoto posted:How on earth are they going to pull off Hawke and the Warden making an appearance? There are rumours that duel wielding warriors are going to make a shocking return.
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Mar 23, 2014 20:40
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Penakoto posted:How on earth are they going to pull off Hawke and the Warden making an appearance? Is it even possible to pull a face morph out of DAO/DA2 and stick it in DAIs entirely new engine? Unless they patched the save system for the previous two games... Although they could also potentially, with that dragon age keep thing, be like 'oh by the way select races for and remodel your characters from the previous games in this new engine for us so we can use them as assets.'
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Mar 23, 2014 21:23
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Pulling unique faces from old saves seems like a complete pipe-dream to me, honestly. With dwarves or humans, it's possible, but elves have changed so drastically since we last had the chance to play them that I doubt Bioware would be able to morph those old faces into the new style without looking like mutants. It's just not going to happen, and would be a massive waste of resources. My best guess is that each potential Warden will just be a defined character with a male/female alternation at most, with everything else falling down to what class they are.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:55
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I'm hoping the Keep lets you do a character creator thing for the Warden and Hawke, that's the only thing I can really see working. CottonWolf posted:There are rumours that duel wielding warriors are going to make a shocking return. What rumors? I haven't seen anything about that.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:01
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Penakoto posted:What rumors? I haven't seen anything about that. I've just heard people saying it. The speculation might be related to this quote, which is the best my google-fu could come up with. Mike Laidlaw posted:We're looking at it, but I wouldn't say the prognosis is great at the moment. It's a hotly requested feature, though, so, in time. It's really a spectacular non-answer.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:05
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Crabtree posted:Bonus points if Bioware basically treated the city like an inactive reaper. Agreed. The Secret of Kirkwall was a complete waste that would have been a far better story than what we ended up with.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:35
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Picking the demon summoner class should come later. Like you cast magic missile and bullshit for a while, get your chantry buddy into the party and the the instant you decide to summon a demon, they just turn on you immediately. Maybe if you've turned them evil they elect to roll with you, but otherwise they just flip it and attack you.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:42
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Geostomp posted:Agreed. The Secret of Kirkwall was a complete waste that would have been a far better story than what we ended up with. Whoever they tasked to write the lore for Kirkwall took it really seriously and probably thought that the mysteries and Band of Three stuff would be rolled into the main plot, rather then just some obscure books you have to search all over for. Instead it was "Mages corrupt arrrgh, Templer goes crazy from magic lyrium (unexplained), choose a side and fight both anyways"
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Mar 23, 2014 22:55
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Have we seen any rogue gameplay from DAI yet? Besides Varric in that demo of course. I'm curious to see if they're useless (DAO) or super-ninjas (DAII)?
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Mar 24, 2014 06:47
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MantisToboggan posted:Have we seen any rogue gameplay from DAI yet? Besides Varric in that demo of course. I'm curious to see if they're useless (DAO) or super-ninjas (DAII)? My party of Zevran, Leliana, and Dwarf Warden all with Ranger specialization each with giant gently caress off spiders, and Wynne deep in the entropy tree for skeletons would argue that rogues are actually the best. ((Add in the dog mod and you suddenly have more animals than people... if skeletons count as animals))
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Mar 24, 2014 07:18
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Differo Cathedra posted:Never thought about it before, but uncovering the secrets of Kirkwall and trying to get the higher-ups to recognize and address the corruption would have made great first and third acts. Bioware could have even kept their nihilistic ending and have Hawke fail to convince anyone other than their closest friends/rivals that the city was serving as a demonic conduit. The idiots in charge could point fingers at each for being behind all the demons and Hawke could have got blamed for the fallout. For me that would have redeemed the plot. Having each act include a required quest that tied into the overall purpose of the city. Even things like Frankenmom only working because of the way that the city is designed and finding that out. Maybe even having the option to petition to Qunari to leave because the issue (which gives them a new reason to try to raze it and things fall apart). Finally, even if Anders can't be stopped adding a non-pro mage motivation that "ah poo poo the Chantry is the center of this giant city rune" and having a motivation to try to evacuate it (not telling Anders or else he'd detonate the bomb early) while letting him blow it up in an effort to "save" the city could have made a good climax.
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Mar 24, 2014 07:29
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Penakoto posted:How on earth are they going to pull off Hawke and the Warden making an appearance? I'd really love it if, when you met the Warden, you'd ask them something and they'd just stand there staring at you  and your party gets really creeped out by it.
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Mar 24, 2014 11:24
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