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Question: I'm reading Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, and it's pretty drat good. It's got me wanting to read his other stuff. Do I need to read City of Saints and Madmen before Shriek in order to understand it? The latter is available at my library, the former isn't. Is it a direct sequel, or more of a China Mieville, Perdido Street Station/The Scar thing where they share a setting and a couple of characters, but you can read either by themselves?
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Mar 22, 2014 21:50
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Popular Human posted:Question: I'm reading Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, and it's pretty drat good. It's got me wanting to read his other stuff. Do I need to read City of Saints and Madmen before Shriek in order to understand it? The latter is available at my library, the former isn't. Is it a direct sequel, or more of a China Mieville, Perdido Street Station/The Scar thing where they share a setting and a couple of characters, but you can read either by themselves? City of Saints and Madmen is a collection of short stories set in the same fungal universe. Shriek grabs a few characters from it and persues a specific thread of investigation that really fleshes out (and further obfuscates) the setting. I read them in order, but I'm not sure you need to. Reading City of Saints and Madmen after Shriek might remove some of the strangeness and the mystery from the short stories, and might make the diary-style novel of Shriek more confusing. You should definitely read them both before you read Finch though.
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Mar 22, 2014 23:26
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Popular Human posted:Question: I'm reading Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, and it's pretty drat good. It's got me wanting to read his other stuff. Do I need to read City of Saints and Madmen before Shriek in order to understand it? The latter is available at my library, the former isn't. Is it a direct sequel, or more of a China Mieville, Perdido Street Station/The Scar thing where they share a setting and a couple of characters, but you can read either by themselves? The short stories in City of Saints and Madmen kind of set up plot threads and the setting in a way that pays off in later books, even though they aren't really "direct" sequels. I think it's probably better to start with City of Saints and Madmen - the short stories might not be as exciting if the first thing you think when you start one is, "Aha, I know what this turned out to be!" Siminu's definitely right that, whatever you do, you want to read it before Finch, though.
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Mar 23, 2014 01:16
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So I finished reading Miyuke Miyabe's Apparitions: Ghosts of Old Edo a few days ago. It's a collection of short stories set in Tokugawa-era Japan. Miyabe (and the translator) are pretty good at capturing the old-timey feel of the stories, but already the individual stories starting to blur together. I think the reason for this is that most of the stories are experienced from the point of view of apprentices working at a shop, and the ordering doesn't help matters by putting those stories one after another. That aside, the stories are interesting. I would hesitate to call some of them ghost stories, because the ghosts are merely devices to draw our attention to wider themes of human nature. I saw this because in those stories the ghosts themselves make little more than a cameo appearance. Still, I find those stories the most effective ones in the collection. The ones without that broader focus feel like they barely deviate from the standard horror formula of "person x did y, thing z happened." I feel like the collection is at least worth a read, both for the introduction (a short essay on Miyabe's influences in both Japanese and Western fiction) and the stories "Cage of Shadows", "The Futon Storeroom", "The Plum Rains Fall", and "A Woman's Head". The rest of the stories are well-written, but I don't feel like they particularly stand out in the long run.
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Mar 24, 2014 06:27
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I remember reading a kind of detective fiction set in ancient times, I think during the Hellenistic period (might be before or after, I really can't remember). It was set in Babylon (the MC had traveled there for some reason), and had to do with a ziggurat and a ruined (and supposedly haunted) temple, both within the city. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? I want to say it was a side short story in a series of novels. Edit: I'm fairly certain it was a short story in one of those anthologies that Gardner Dozois and GRR Martin collaborated on recently, I'm not sure which one.
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Mar 24, 2014 11:04
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Haerc posted:I remember reading a kind of detective fiction set in ancient times, I think during the Hellenistic period (might be before or after, I really can't remember). It was set in Babylon (the MC had traveled there for some reason), and had to do with a ziggurat and a ruined (and supposedly haunted) temple, both within the city. Maybe http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Pigs-Marcus-Mystery-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B0041T51DC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395696849&sr=8-1&keywords=silver+pigs or that author. Maybe.
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Mar 24, 2014 22:34
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specklebang posted:Maybe http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Pigs-Marcus-Mystery-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B0041T51DC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395696849&sr=8-1&keywords=silver+pigs or that author. Maybe. I looked her up, her website says she doesn't really write much short fiction, and the list provided there didn't have anything I had read. Thanks though.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:09
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Haerc posted:I looked her up, her website says she doesn't really write much short fiction, and the list provided there didn't have anything I had read. Thanks though. That series is fantastic, but it's definitely not it. Martin and Dozois only did several anthologies. Just read the non-spoilery story descriptions in the Amazon reviews of each to see if that jogs your memories.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:25
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Can anyone recommend any good fantasy (or sci-fi to a lesser extent) Bildungsroman novels?
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Mar 25, 2014 00:16
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Carrier posted:Can anyone recommend any good fantasy (or sci-fi to a lesser extent) Bildungsroman novels? Blood Song by Anthony Ryan. The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman.
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Mar 25, 2014 00:24
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Megazver posted:Blood Song by Anthony Ryan. The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman. Neil Gaiman's Stardust, Earthsea Trilogy, Prydain Chronicles, Harry Potter.
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Mar 25, 2014 00:35
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I have not personally read it (not a fan of bildungsroman much), but I hear good things about the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series by Tad Williams. I don't see it brought up much in the thread, so perhaps someone who has read it could weigh in.
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Mar 25, 2014 00:36
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I finished The Palace Job last night. Its a very light hearted fantasy heist story. Two ex soldiers, a shapeshifting unicorn, an alchemist, a monk, an illusionist (expelled from magic school), a priestess with a talking hammer, and a village idiot team up to steal an Elven manuscript. Its fun and the author does a great job introducing each character with a short chapter featuring them in the midst of a crime. Unfortunately, toward the end it becomes a standard "save the world" plot, when I was really hoping for a stylish, Ocean's Eleven conclusion. The world itself is well built and I'd like to see more of it and the characters. Someone was asking for fun/comedy fantasy a few pages back: definitely check this out.
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Mar 25, 2014 04:07
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Haerc posted:I remember reading a kind of detective fiction set in ancient times, I think during the Hellenistic period (might be before or after, I really can't remember). It was set in Babylon (the MC had traveled there for some reason), and had to do with a ziggurat and a ruined (and supposedly haunted) temple, both within the city. Maybe Steven Saylor's The Seven Wonders? It's a collection of short stories about Gordianus the Finder's travels to all seven wonders of the ancient world in his youth. Including Babylon of course. And there is a (seemingly) haunted temple, although I'm not sure if it was in the story about the Hanging Gardens/Babylon. Azathoth posted:I have not personally read it (not a fan of bildungsroman much), but I hear good things about the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series by Tad Williams. I don't see it brought up much in the thread, so perhaps someone who has read it could weigh in. I liked it a lot back in the day, although the first 200-300 pages are a chore. It's probably a bit old-fashioned in style and concept after the new wave of Fantasy in the Nineties/2000s, but still good. Decius fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 07:00
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Decius posted:Maybe Steven Saylor's The Seven Wonders? It's a collection of short stories about Gordianus the Finder's travels to all seven wonders of the ancient world in his youth. Including Babylon of course. And there is a (seemingly) haunted temple, although I'm not sure if it was in the story about the Hanging Gardens/Babylon. Thanks, this was it. The short story I read must have been republished in a different anthology though, because I've never read that particular one.
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Mar 25, 2014 09:59
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Carrier posted:Can anyone recommend any good fantasy (or sci-fi to a lesser extent) Bildungsroman novels? I think you could pick a book randomly from a fantasy section and get one of these. Whether they are are good is another story entirely. Hint: Most often not. I would recommend Robin Hobb, the Assassin, Liveship and Soldier Son (weaker than the first two), all of which have this type of story arc. Wheel of Time, A Song of Ice and Fire and Rothuss are kinda obvious as well. Azathoth posted:I have not personally read it (not a fan of bildungsroman much), but I hear good things about the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series by Tad Williams. I don't see it brought up much in the thread, so perhaps someone who has read it could weigh in. It is Tad Williams, so there is a lot of suffering in the wildness and the main protagonist remains rather powerless the entire story arc. It is ok, and a bit too long. I would say Hobb and Tad Williams are somewhat similar in their writing, even though Hobbs characters are generally better. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Neil Gaiman's Stardust, Earthsea Trilogy, Prydain Chronicles, Harry Potter. Megazver posted:Blood Song by Anthony Ryan. The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman.
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Mar 25, 2014 10:29
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Thanks all  It was actually Blood Song that got me into the mood for novels of that type. I'll investigate Gaiman first since I think all I've ever read of him is American Gods (and wasn't blown away).
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Mar 25, 2014 11:07
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Carrier posted:Thanks all Name of the Wind is an obvious choice if you want something like Blood Song.
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Mar 25, 2014 11:12
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FastestGunAlive posted:I finished The Palace Job last night. Twas me. I bought the hell outta this book. It sounds fun
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Mar 25, 2014 11:19
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Cardiac posted:It is Tad Williams, so there is a lot of suffering in the wildness and the main protagonist remains rather powerless the entire story arc.
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Mar 25, 2014 11:33
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Twas me. I bought the hell outta this book. It sounds fun Awesome, let us know what you think
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Mar 25, 2014 15:30
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Cardiovorax posted:That's an accurate description. I didn't enjoy it very much, but it's not actually bad, just tedious. The ending is also kind of dumb. Pretty much my feelings, although maybe I enjoyed it a bit more. There's parts with neat stuff, and an okay setting, but a lot of hard slogging and protagonist getting hosed up. I seem to recall there was a dude with a knife who was pretty hilarious though.
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Mar 25, 2014 20:48
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Blog Free or Die posted:Pretty much my feelings, although maybe I enjoyed it a bit more. There's parts with neat stuff, and an okay setting, but a lot of hard slogging and protagonist getting hosed up. I don't even remember enough of the books to recall if there was a knife dude.
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Mar 25, 2014 21:08
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Dat's a good OP - I was looking through it to see if there's any mention of Wool and there's not but tons of other good stuff. So, Wool. It almost reads like a YA book but the main character is 34. I think I get that impression mainly from the comically evil fascist antagonist and the special snowflake/people's revolution theme you often get in that genre these days. I'm about half way through now and just starting to enjoy it despite the OTT characterisation of the bad guy, any opinions on the rest of it?
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Mar 25, 2014 21:21
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gender illusionist posted:Dat's a good OP - I was looking through it to see if there's any mention of Wool and there's not but tons of other good stuff. Wool's a fun read, but I felt like it set up something way more interesting than it actually delivered. Still I read all three books (but I'm also a completionist sucker).
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Mar 25, 2014 22:51
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Twas me. I bought the hell outta this book. It sounds fun I liked The Palace Job (discovered here at SA) enough that I quit reading it after the first few chapters and bought the audio version to enjoy with a friend. Weekes isn't quite Abercrombie or Lynch but for a first novel, he did a good (palace) job with this.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:33
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Megazver posted:Blood Song by Anthony Ryan. The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman. And you won't have to wait too long to read the sequel to Blood Song if you like it as it comes out in July! I'm really hoping the quality at least stays the same. I've been burned plenty of times by a first time authors follow up book.
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Mar 26, 2014 03:06
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Cardiovorax posted:Yeah, this and Otherland really burned me on Tad Williams, because they're pretty much identical: A weak beginning, a way too long extended middle with the occasional good bit and a really lame ending. Well, Otherland started good in my opinion, but never really went places. I still liked the idea though. The Shadowmarch series was better, mostly since it had more fantastic creatures in it. Some compulsory suffering in the wilderness as well. Likewise, War of the Flowers had its moments. Tad Williams is a good author, but he would benefit from some trimming of his storylines.
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Mar 26, 2014 09:26
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Cardiac posted:Well, Otherland started good in my opinion, but never really went places. I still liked the idea though. I read Memory Sorrow Thorn when I was reading constantly and probably motoring through a book a week, and I remember it even then being an endless slog. The third book in the "trilogy" got split into two separate paperbacks because it was so long and it just ended up being horrible and tedious. The world itself was pretty interesting, which made how bad it got really frustrating. Wheel of Time is probably the most massive bildungsroman ever written (it's about 6 in one); to the extent ASoIaF is one as well it mostly reads as a reaction to Wheel of Time. I haven't read The Magicians by Lev Grossman but isn't that also in the same ballpark?
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Mar 27, 2014 02:48
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I can't stand Wheel of Time. I read through them when I was in highschool and I don't know why anymore. They're pretty misogynistic and everyone has goofy catchphrases that they say all the time.
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Mar 27, 2014 08:09
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uberkeyzer posted:I read Memory Sorrow Thorn when I was reading constantly and probably motoring through a book a week, and I remember it even then being an endless slog. The third book in the "trilogy" got split into two separate paperbacks because it was so long and it just ended up being horrible and tedious. The world itself was pretty interesting, which made how bad it got really frustrating. Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn combines all the worst parts of Tolkien and Robert Jordan, basically.
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Mar 27, 2014 11:51
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corn in the bible posted:I can't stand Wheel of Time. I read through them when I was in highschool and I don't know why anymore. They're pretty misogynistic and everyone has goofy catchphrases that they say all the time.  : The Fantasy Series.
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Mar 27, 2014 12:15
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NinjaDebugger posted:Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn combines all the worst parts of Tolkien and Robert Jordan, basically. Counterpoint: I remember very few braids being tugged.
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Mar 27, 2014 12:25
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I remember hearing good things about those books and that GRRM had been inspired by them and I read them and kept waiting for them to get good. They never did.
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Mar 27, 2014 12:56
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corn in the bible posted:I can't stand Wheel of Time. I read through them when I was in highschool and I don't know why anymore. They're pretty misogynistic and everyone has goofy catchphrases that they say all the time. I won't argue with the goofy catchphrases but misogynist seems harsh. The book posits a world where the lost "golden age" had men and women as perfect equals, the world got totally destroyed because the most powerful men basically refused to listen to the women and destroyed everything, and then women have essentially kept civilization going for the last 3000 years. The main characters are pretty evenly split between men and women and the women are rarely in "damsel in distress" spots where men have to rescue them. The wise mentor // gandalf figure is a woman and she kicks rear end. I won't argue that there's a "men are from Mars women are from Venus" type of angle which can be obnoxious, but considering its high fantasy and the first book was written in 1991 it seemed pretty progressive to me? Anyway I know there's a mega thread and there's so many books to discuss it's not worth spending much more time hashing over WoT. But I just finished a recently written fantasy (The Red Knight) that gives its women nowhere close to the same level of agency so it just struck me as unfair. ed: Basically it's a 16,000 page series whose bottom line message is "men and women are equally good at different things but are equally capable of being bone-headed and stubborn and need to work together to accomplish anything important." It's all about gender, which is really unusual for fantasy and pretty valuable, given our discussion over the last few pages. uberkeyzer fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Mar 27, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 13:28
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uberkeyzer posted:The main characters are pretty evenly split between men and women and the women are rarely in "damsel in distress" spots where men have to rescue them. It still happens, just when the women are rescued they are insufferable cunts about it and have no regard for their rescuer. When Mat rescued the wonder girls within 2 minutes they were physically threatening him with their wizard powers.
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Mar 27, 2014 15:03
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Still, Jordan was really loving weird about gender. Anybody else remember that bit where whathisname was raped by the queen of Feminazi City (where women always carry knives so they can murder their husbands if they gently caress up) and everybody was like "lol he likes dancing with women, totally got what he deserved.
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Mar 27, 2014 15:07
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Neurosis posted:It still happens, just when the women are rescued they are insufferable cunts about it and have no regard for their rescuer. When Mat rescued the wonder girls within 2 minutes they were physically threatening him with their wizard powers. I dislike the series as well, and also disliked that scene, but I thought the point was that the women have reverse male privilege, so naturally they assume that the dudes are still screw ups and should do what they say.
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Mar 27, 2014 17:52
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Neurosis posted:when the women are rescued they are insufferable cunts Are you loving serious
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Mar 27, 2014 18:50
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Just finished Blood Song. Thought it was really good. Anyone else enjoy it? I don't see a thread for it so I'm not sure where the best place to discuss it is.
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Mar 27, 2014 20:56
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