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WoodrowSkillson posted:yeah intelligence is a good indicator because i do not think a wildebeest will bemoan the lack of a crossing rivers full of crocodiles along its migration, nor do i think the prairie dogs are all that upset about not getting shot or eaten by eagles they have prairie dogs at the minnesota zoo and i love watching them go by and make their little "wheep!" sounds
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Mar 25, 2014 17:50
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Pick posted:Well, if we value potential humans that why do we allow fertility treatments for couples? They by necessity dump thousands of fertile eggs. I think that arguments that a few cells are potential human life are silly because that would mean that women are evil for having a period  Tribal membership can be tricky because of what you mentioned but I think it's okay if you consider all humans as part of it. Ultimately I think we should avoid being very cruel to animals that are smart and would feel it (although we don't know exactly which animals count so we will mess up). You probably don't need animal trials for makeup but if it's for a medicine that will help many many people...  I don't really think you can have a perfect morality system because it's not like there's a clear point at which a fetus becomes pretty much a baby (like most people wouldn't support abortions at 8 months) and there's not a clear line between animals that we should care about and animals we shouldn't. The problem is that people want to be 100% confident that they are doing the right thing and that's where you get fundamentalism. You can only try your best and be open to change.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:50
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pee pee doo doo fart
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Mar 25, 2014 17:50
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we have a big prairie dog colony at the open space/mountain parks area near my house. it's fun to watch them run around, frolicking with their plague
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Mar 25, 2014 17:51
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amarantinesky posted:Ultimately I think we should avoid being very cruel to animals that are smart and would feel it (although we don't know exactly which animals count so we will mess up). You probably don't need animal trials for makeup but if it's for a medicine that will help many many people... Cows can feel joy. Did you know that?
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Mar 25, 2014 17:51
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I always like seeing the meerkats, they usually have like 4 or 5 babies at any one time  so fuckin tiny
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Mar 25, 2014 17:52
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im not saying all species should be in zoos but i think people really anthropomorphise animals to a huge degree and expect them to hate not doing whatever it is they do in the wild
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Mar 25, 2014 17:53
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vaguely posted:conservation isn't only about saving the tigers In a sense I think zoo animals are martyrs, but necessary ones. People care about things they see. Also it's kind of lovely to say "well just go to AFRICA to see lions t  ". That is an impossibility for a huge contingent of the population, even in the USA. Experiencing a connection with animals should not be cost-prohibitive. And no, watching it on TV is absolutely not the same.Zoos are also getting better all the time. Fund them and give them time. Also, occasionally animals will try to escape, then decide they like their cages better. Famous case of this with a gorilla that built a ladder in an Australian zoo. She got to the top of the wall, looked around, and went back into her enclosure.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:54
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WoodrowSkillson posted:im not saying all species should be in zoos but i think people really anthropomorphise animals to a huge degree and expect them to hate not doing whatever it is they do in the wild i hate not having tapeworms hooked to my gut lining and fly maggots in my skin, like my wild kin once did
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Mar 25, 2014 17:55
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I had veal a few nights ago. My mom makes the best veal and oh my god was it good. I miss being home already knowing that tonight is some leftovers.
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Mar 25, 2014 17:55
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like the problem is just putting them in a cage with absolutely nothing to do not being enclosed itself. active predators probably always need more stimulating things to do as the act of hunting is a way bigger then then grazing or whatever but at the same time penguins seems to do pretty drat well
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Mar 25, 2014 17:57
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amarantinesky posted:I think that arguments that a few cells are potential human life are silly because that would mean that women are evil for having a period Singer's point is why? What justifies human exceptionalism? Humans are not by necessity smarter than other animals or able to feel more pain (i.e. the mentally impaired). We are not the only animals that are altruistic. We are not the only animals that use tools, or prioritize family, or recognize individuals. Why does every single human have more rights than any given ape? Koko the signing gorilla is still alive, but they could euthanize her if they felt like it. You can go to the vet and tell them to kill your dog and if it's legally your dog then that's that. "I'm human so humans matter and nothing else does" is begging a really fundamental question. If aliens came to Earth and were able to generally communicate with us and started eating us with the excuse "Well you're not Glopian, Glopians can eat you since you're not one of us " would you have an objection to that?In my mind, it's not a matter of ethics at this point, it's practicality. Our society still relies heavily on exploitation all-around and expecting us to not exploit any one contingent is sort of expecting a miracle. Pick fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 17:58
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Pick posted:Singer's point is why? What justifies human exceptionalism? Humans are not by necessity smarter than other animals or able to feel more pain (i.e. the mentally impaired). We are not the only animals that are altruistic. We are not the only animals that use tools, or prioritize family, or recognize individuals. Why does every single human have more rights than any given ape? Koko the signing gorilla is still alive, but they could euthanize her if they felt like it. You can go to the vet and tell them to kill your dog and if it's legally your dog then that's that. because gently caress animals that's why?
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Mar 25, 2014 17:59
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i like animals
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Mar 25, 2014 17:59
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Pig Benis Disciple posted:pee pee doo doo fart I concur. That's deep.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:00
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animals scare the poo poo out of me
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Mar 25, 2014 18:00
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vaguely posted:I like a thing
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Mar 25, 2014 18:00
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i think animals are pretty boss but we won and to the victor go the spoils
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Mar 25, 2014 18:00
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Pick posted:Singer's point is why? What justifies human exceptionalism? Humans are not by necessity smarter than other animals or able to feel more pain (i.e. the mentally impaired). We are not the only animals that are altruistic. We are not the only animals that use tools, or prioritize family, or recognize individuals. Why does every single human have more rights than any given ape? Koko the signing gorilla is still alive, but they could euthanize her if they felt like it. You can go to the vet and tell them to kill your dog and if it's legally your dog then that's that. "I'm human so humans matter and nothing else does" is begging a really fundamental question. Well see what happens when you treat an animal better than a human is the human punches you in the face, eats your animal and burns your house down for being an rear end in a top hat. And you deserve it. Humans are better animals than animals is generally the gist.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:i think animals are pretty boss but we won and to the victor go the spoils yes
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Mar 25, 2014 18:01
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humans kind of suck
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Mar 25, 2014 18:01
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animals like a family or two apart from me are ok because their diseases are less likely to affect me.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:02
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Motherfucker posted:Well see what happens when you treat an animal better than a human is the human punches you in the face, eats your animal and burns your house down for being an rear end in a top hat. I would treat the average elephant better than the average person. i like elephants a lot.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:02
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what do you mean that these people are starving and have to walk forty miles to the nearest clinic that makes sure they don't die when they have a child, I don't care please donate to make this bug that eats their poop not be endangered
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Mar 25, 2014 18:03
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empty quoting yourself should get your posting license revoked.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:03
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Pick posted:Singer's point is why? What justifies human exceptionalism? Humans are not by necessity smarter than other animals or able to feel more pain (i.e. the mentally impaired). We are not the only animals that are altruistic. We are not the only animals that use tools, or prioritize family, or recognize individuals. Why does every single human have more rights than any given ape? Koko the signing gorilla is still alive, but they could euthanize her if they felt like it. You can go to the vet and tell them to kill your dog and if it's legally your dog then that's that. "I'm human so humans matter and nothing else does" is begging a really fundamental question. I agree that it's practicality. Killing animals might be more humane than the way we treat a lot of humans tbh (sex trafficing, slaves, etc). Human exceptionalism is because we are in the position to make these decisions about treating other animals "morally." I doubt other animals, in our place, would care as much.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:03
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Pig Benis Disciple posted:what do you mean that these people are starving and have to walk forty miles to the nearest clinic that makes sure they don't die when they have a child, I don't care please donate to make this bug that eats their poop not be endangered quick choose
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Mar 25, 2014 18:04
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vaguely posted:you can only care about one thing ever suicide
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Mar 25, 2014 18:04
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Pig Benis Disciple posted:what do you mean that these people are starving and have to walk forty miles to the nearest clinic that makes sure they don't die when they have a child, I don't care please donate to make this bug that eats their poop not be endangered there is an entire ethic devoted to this idea, social ecology. ignoring environmental problems in favor of human problems is a bit myopic though
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Mar 25, 2014 18:05
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Pig Benis Disciple posted:what do you mean that these people are starving and have to walk forty miles to the nearest clinic that makes sure they don't die when they have a child, I don't care please donate to make this bug that eats their poop not be endangered ban all charities and causes other then world hunger which could be solved tomorrow if countries just agreed to ship food there got it
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Mar 25, 2014 18:05
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Pick posted:I would treat the average elephant better than the average person. i like elephants a lot. I would kill a billion indians to save the worlds population of bengal tigers... The cruel irony is that if I killed a billion indians there would still be /too many indians/ amarantinesky posted:I agree that it's practicality. Killing animals might be more humane than the way we treat a lot of humans tbh (sex trafficing, slaves, etc). If animals were in our position they would literally be us.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:05
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WoodrowSkillson posted:ban all charities down with this
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Mar 25, 2014 18:06
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vaguely posted:you can only care about one thing ever I choose cocks.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:06
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Pig Benis Disciple posted:pee pee doo doo fart checking your post history itt again?
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Mar 25, 2014 18:06
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Motherfucker posted:I would kill a billion indians to save the worlds population of bengal tigers... careful you are so edgy you might cut yourself
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Mar 25, 2014 18:06
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Motherfucker posted:I choose cocks. I knew you cared about animals 
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Mar 25, 2014 18:06
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WoodrowSkillson posted:careful you are so edgy you might cut yourself seriously though India desperately needs population control actually the world in general
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Mar 25, 2014 18:07
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Portals posted:if I inherited enough good genes from my mom I'm gonna age really goddamn gracefully and get a silver streak like storm from x-men when I hit 40 You mean Rogue.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:08
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Wildlife Analysis posted:seriously though India desperately needs population control I'm gonna have ten babies just to spite you. just kidding big families are no fun to grow up in.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:08
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amarantinesky posted:Human exceptionalism is because we are in the position to make these decisions about treating other animals "morally." I doubt other animals, in our place, would care as much. Elephants have been shown to try to bury/cover the dead of other species, including humans, as they do for their own, and refuse to complete tasks if another animal will be harmed. Dolphins will push drowning animals back to shore (including Dick van Dyke, not a joke). One of Werner Herzog's recent documentaries included a guy talking about how his dog gave its life fighting a bear to protect him. Not every animal is cross-species altrustic, but not every human is either.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:08
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