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The March Hare posted:What they aren't continuing to get is even more money. When the Mike Jordan's of your game are tweeting about how lovely your product is, that becomes real incentive to improve. Yeah, I've never played mtgo, and I probably never will. Despite it already being a game I like to play, I'll never touch it online when all I hear is how broken and awful everything about it is.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:40
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Would an enchantment I cast on an opposing player's creature (i.e. Pacifism) count as an enchantment I controlled? (per Eidolon of Countless Battles)
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Mar 26, 2014 06:15
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Dr Intergalactic posted:Would an enchantment I cast on an opposing player's creature (i.e. Pacifism) count as an enchantment I controlled? (per Eidolon of Countless Battles) yes
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Mar 26, 2014 06:22
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jassi007 posted:yes Great thanks. Just got back into magic, haven't played since Urza block. Still working out the kinks but I did just build my first deck, so I've got that going for me.
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Mar 26, 2014 06:34
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Dr Intergalactic posted:Great thanks. Just got back into magic, haven't played since Urza block. Still working out the kinks but I did just build my first deck, so I've got that going for me. Its a ton of fun, I'm assuming some white weenie with a lot of bestow dudes and hero of iroas? It has problems with removal. Run gods willing and brave the elements.
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Mar 26, 2014 06:48
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It's actually B/W so I've got some removal and counter spells. A couple mnemonic walls to get them back. Most creatures are in white with heroic or that bestow. Ideally I will be able to play eidolon of countless battles and get plenty of +1/+1. Running a couple Brimaz, his vanguards, and ajanis chosen to get tokens for that eidolon.
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Mar 26, 2014 07:17
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I seriously have zero problems with the old client. The UI is old and ugly but somehow usable, there are some stability issues but that's mostly the backend at this point. The new client however...
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Mar 26, 2014 08:17
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Samael posted:Noted. UK goons (I know there are some out there) are there legacy tournaments near you? This was a couple of pages ago, but Manaleak in Worcester does Legacy tournaments every so often, I think. I know at least a couple of people play legacy there.
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Mar 26, 2014 10:06
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Dr Intergalactic posted:It's actually B/W so I've got some removal and counter spells. Just so you know, B is actually black. Blue is U.
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Mar 26, 2014 11:23
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Madmarker posted:A mechanical flower. Artifact; n - an object made by a human being, typically one of cultural or historical interest Even in Magic, "artifact" doesn't neccessarily mean Robot. I mean, it mostly does these days because of roboto silver borders, but is Spring-Leaf Drum a mechanical construction? fake edit; typo'd roboto by acident, left it in because why not
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Mar 26, 2014 11:37
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mehall posted:Artifact; n - an object made by a human being, typically one of cultural or historical interest I was posting that mostly at the silliness of the imagery of the most powerful thing in creation being a robot flower, but you are right, it isn't necessarily a robot.
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Mar 26, 2014 11:56
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So, the modo downtime apparently started last night, huh? Has anyone heard if it's going to be back up again any earlier because of that? Gotta get my cube fix man.
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Mar 26, 2014 12:14
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bhsman posted:I've never played MTGO but all of what you mention couldn't make up for Hearthstone being boring as hell. Pretty much. Hearthstone is a boring game on a good client, MTGO is a great game on a lovely client. Played four games of Hearthstone, it was just so... Shallow. I don't see it lasting for too long if they don't step their game up. In terms of client, how is Duels? It wouldn't be unreasonable that they use some of it as a base, or get ideas from it for improvement.
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Mar 26, 2014 12:38
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See, I actually like Hearthstone. It lacks the depth of Magic, but that's fine. It's still an engaging and challenging game with some very cool strategies.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:04
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Hearthstone is also a much better design for a video game - the pass-priority-back-and-forth-for-every-action thing that Magic has is great in real life when you can shortcut through a lot of it, but is rather painful to use when you build it into a rigid computer system. At the moment it lacks the depth of Magic, but - I mean, you still have the three pillars of aggro, control, and combo, and there's definitely room for it to become deeper as the game grows, much like Magic has improved over the course of its existence. Time will tell whether it actually lives up to that potential, of course, but there's no reason to write it off entirely just because it's currently shallower.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:12
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Madmarker posted:I was posting that mostly at the silliness of the imagery of the most powerful thing in creation being a robot flower, but you are right, it isn't necessarily a robot. The most popularly "pricy" item, such that the owner of many of these will have power in our world is a bunch of carbon atoms nearer to the earths core that have been brought up randomly by magma bursts. These are simultaneously more common than would be expected and also "easily" constructed these days, yet still signify the owner to be of great worth and power.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:41
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suicidesteve posted:Just so you know, B is actually black. Blue is U. Ah! Makes sense. After I posted I noticed that it might be unclear. Thanks.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:08
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Jabor posted:Hearthstone is also a much better design for a video game - the pass-priority-back-and-forth-for-every-action thing that Magic has is great in real life when you can shortcut through a lot of it, but is rather painful to use when you build it into a rigid computer system. At the moment it lacks the depth of Magic, but - I mean, you still have the three pillars of aggro, control, and combo, and there's definitely room for it to become deeper as the game grows, much like Magic has improved over the course of its existence. Time will tell whether it actually lives up to that potential, of course, but there's no reason to write it off entirely just because it's currently shallower. I don't think it's ever going to reach the strategic depth of Magic. No instants removes so much from the game. 5 of the characters can't even interact with their opponents on their turn, and the ones that can need to cast a spell on their turn to do so. Even decks that generally tap out in Magic every turn will have to think about blocking. Hearthstone is a fun game, but I think it's always going to lack some of Magic's strategic depth because of the game's core design.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:15
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Kabanaw posted:I don't think it's ever going to reach the strategic depth of Magic. No instants removes so much from the game. 5 of the characters can't even interact with their opponents on their turn, and the ones that can need to cast a spell on their turn to do so. Even decks that generally tap out in Magic every turn will have to think about blocking. Hearthstone is a fun game, but I think it's always going to lack some of Magic's strategic depth because of the game's core design. Hearthstone is what I play when I am to sick and drugged up to play Magic well.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:19
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Kabanaw posted:I don't think it's ever going to reach the strategic depth of Magic. No instants removes so much from the game. This sums up why Hearthstone isn't going to have a high skill ceiling. 90%+ of hearthstone is deckbuilding, the rest is just dumping your hand in the order the numbers let you.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:25
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Mortimer posted:This sums up why Hearthstone isn't going to have a high skill ceiling. 90%+ of hearthstone is deckbuilding, the rest is just dumping your hand in the order the numbers let you. I am no Hearthstone expert, but this sounds exactly like something someone would say about Magic aggro or combo decks (and be completely wrong).
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Mar 26, 2014 14:33
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Lord Of Texas posted:I am no Hearthstone expert, but this sounds exactly like something someone would say about Magic aggro or combo decks (and be completely wrong). I'm not either, but I've played enough to see the large majority of cards, and so far the mechanics just aren't there to support much depth of gameplay. Yeah magic has the benefit of being around 20 years, but this is a game made long after MTG, releasing with so few mechanics with the most ubiquitous ones being straight MTG copies isn't a good sign. Or maybe it is a good sign in that we'll see more interesting stuff in the future.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:43
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netcat posted:I seriously have zero problems with the old client. The UI is old and ugly but somehow usable, there are some stability issues but that's mostly the backend at this point. The new client however... Yeah the old client is great as far as stability and usability go. As a new player picking it up, I would be so intimidated I wouldn't even bother. The new client is great as far as UI goes, but suffers from some horrible optimization and memory leaks (seriously I've seen it use 6+ GB before  )One of the biggest issues I have as an almost daily MODO player is that this is the same goddamn company that had a hand in Duels of the Planeswalkers, an obviously superior coded game. The fact that MTGO exists in the state it does and Duels is A Better Thing is frankly, inexcusable. I'm not even talking graphics, just in form and function. Worth Wollpert seems to be in a tough place, and most of the problems are (probably) out of his hands. If I was in a position to re-do MTGO, however, I'd start from the ground up with modern technologies. Maybe even make it a browser based thing in HTML5 or something, get tablet/mobile support going, etc. anyway the whole MTGO experience isn't as good as it could be and not very intuitive, but I'll still give them my money because I like being able to play whenever I'm on the road or in my PJs on a sunday morning.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:07
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Not to start a big hearthstone debate but I'm sure Blizzard will keep layering on the complexity to the meta game in HS. It's like taking Alpha Magic and applying it to Hearthstone's infancy. Anyway we all know the closest game to Magic is Hex. If anyone will be a strong competitor it will be the Hex, which is pretty much "What if we could make Magic cards that can do amazing things that only a pc game can do." quote:The new client is great as far as UI goes
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Mar 26, 2014 15:09
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edit-ignore this dumb post
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Mar 26, 2014 15:13
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Korak posted:Not to start a big hearthstone debate but I'm sure Blizzard will keep layering on the complexity to the meta game in HS. It's like taking Alpha Magic and applying it to Hearthstone's infancy. Except unlike the world Alpha came out in this is a universe in which Magic has been out for twenty years.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:19
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Hearthstone is a Blizzard property. We can expect to never have the timeliness of updates to keep the game from getting stale. I'm fairly confident in saying that for them to get the game to feel anywhere near diverse as Magic will take them longer than Magic has been on the market. I'll be loving shocked if they release an expansion set in less than 1 year.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:30
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Serperoth posted:Pretty much. Hearthstone is a boring game on a good client, MTGO is a great game on a lovely client. Played four games of Hearthstone, it was just so... Shallow. I don't see it lasting for too long if they don't step their game up. Playing DotP in a word: Smooth. Korak fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 15:30
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Korak posted:Playing DotP in a word: Smooth. I honestly have no idea why they just haven't made MTGO into DotP but with a cash shop and tournaments.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:36
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Count Bleck posted:I honestly have no idea why they just haven't made MTGO into DotP but with a cash shop and tournaments. Oh wait, there is a reason -- DotP wasn't made in-house, it was farmed out to some British developer who are actually professionals and not a tiny in-house division of WotC staffed by overworked programmers who took the job because they like Magic and weren't good enough to get the big bucks down the street at Microsoft or Amazon and spend all their time getting new sets in or chasing down disasterous bugs in panic mode and so have no time to actually improve anything. Plus I'm not convinced they actually have a real UI designer on staff.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:42
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Mortimer posted:This sums up why Hearthstone isn't going to have a high skill ceiling. 90%+ of hearthstone is deckbuilding, the rest is just dumping your hand in the order the numbers let you. Replace "Hearthstone" with "Standard Bloodbraid Elf Jund".  Really, though, isn't simpler board states something that R&D is trying to do?
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Mar 26, 2014 15:43
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Entropic posted:There are some minor differences in how priority and stuff works in DotP, right? But yeah, there's no reason they couldn't take that engine and interface and slap it on top of the existing MTGO backend and have a product a million times better than either of the current clients.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:53
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It's also why it doesn't have dual lands.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:55
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I mean these are all things that could be fixed with some time and effort which WotC doesn't seem to have for MTGO. So I guess we're doomed.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:01
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Duels' simplifying means it still doesn't have proper Untap/Upkeep/Draw going so, to take two examples of things you can currently do with the decks, Cliquing your opponent in their draw step or Pestermiting in their upkeep is actually a matter of hammering on the button as your opponent enters their first main and hoping they haven't tried to cast anything first. And you can't float mana because lands always get tapped for mana as a consequence of something instead of just being a thing you can do. It seems like none of these things would be so hard to implement, but then again this is WotC we're talking about.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:01
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PrinnySquadron posted:It's also why it doesn't have dual lands.  A little annoying how its implemented but it works. Honestly its loving amazing what kind of things the dotp mod scene has done with the game.
Korak fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:10
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I don't really like the Duels interface  Do you actually have problems with the actual "play" interface on MODO? It seems functional and easy to use in my eyes. The only thing I would change there is make the various shortcuts more visible somehow and handle the popups (exiled zone etc.) in a non-retarded manner (this is one of the actual improvements in the new client).
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Mar 26, 2014 16:13
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Or you could just play Forge which is DOTP without the awful animations and with a quest mode and semi-more-competent AI and 99% of all cards ever released
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Mar 26, 2014 16:14
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If you click a checkbox, DotP is DotP without the animations.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:18
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Isn't DotP like, dumbed down though? I haven't played it, but I remember someone (I think Chamale) saying that it wouldn't let you do things like float mana in response to a Sword of Feast and Famine trigger. Of course the program is going to work "better" when it's intentionally dumbed down like that.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:19
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