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Kheldragar posted:Better than noscript? I have never used noscript.
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Mar 26, 2014 12:35
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Tolth posted:This is total and utter bullshit yo. There is no universally accepted definition for either 'psychopath' or 'sociopath' and neither word is still in widespread psychiatric parlance. Your contrast between the two is also absolutely wrong and nothing you have said has any strong basis in any evidence whatsoever. This is true. Parts of the academic world also claim that the term psychopath is of no academic value and doesn't really exist, and that sociopath is the closest thing to a literal psychopath. I guess this has to do with sociopath being the term which implies anti-social behaviour. The Oxford dictionaries have sociopath as a synonym for psychopath, anyway - so it is safe to say that these terms are not mutually exclusive but rather trying to describe the same phenomena in perhaps slightly different ways.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:13
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Klyith posted:Nah, it's a goonfleet teamspeak recording where stahlregen recruit scammed a guy, then brought him into the lobby and a series of goons create a multi-hour radio drama for his benefit. I'd heard this before, just not in its entirety and I'd completely missed someone reminding "the panel" that "votes of non-goonfleet members only count as 3/5ths of a vote". I'm beyond amazed that everyone managed to keep a straight face throughout that gargantuan farce when the scammed guy probably went "Oh god, what have I caused, these poor people are falling apart over trying to right the wrong that was done to me." 
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Mar 26, 2014 13:21
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I'm not sure what I find more repulsive, the 130 page threadnaught about the blog post or all the pubbies crawling out of the woodwork to defend him.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:25
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Leo Showers posted:I'm not sure what I find more repulsive, the 130 page threadnaught about the blog post or all the pubbies crawling out of the woodwork to defend him. Unless CCP decides Erotica broke the rules somewhere or otherwise gave them reason to cancel his account (a bunch of bad PR might do it), its a non-issue. Which is not to say that I approve of Erotica's shenanigans. I personally find it creepy, weird, and pointlessly cruel, but I accept that not everyone does and that given that the victim can literally end the entire farce with one click at any time, he isn't being harassed or compelled or 'tortured'. Ripard's ridiculous and inflammatory blogspew was in many ways equally offensive in its own right; comparing Erotica's game to torture (loving Ripard  ). What's far more annoying is the frightening number of people tacitly defending the "victim" who engaged in real life threats and racism, and either implied or flat out stated that they were effectively in favor of mob rule in Erotica's case up to and including real life violence. Hurrah for hypocrisy. loving pubbies. 
Carth Dookie fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 13:28
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mynnna posted:I have no idea where he came up with the "1/3rd strength" number. It's even less plausible than the rest of the drivel he normally spews. Clearly 1/3 of the isk destroyed being in highsec means 1/3 of all goon activity is in highsec. No way Miniluv and their army of Catalyst/Brutix alts could in any way be responsible for all those dead JFs.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:35
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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darth cookie posted:Unless CCP decides Erotica broke the rules somewhere or otherwise gave them reason to cancel his account (a bunch of bad PR might do it), its a non-issue. Which is not to say that I approve of Erotica's shenanigans. I personally find it creepy, weird, and pointlessly cruel, but I accept that not everyone does and that given that the victim can literally end the entire farce with one click at any time, he isn't being harassed or compelled or 'tortured'. Ripard's ridiculous and inflammatory blogspew was in many ways equally offensive in its own right; comparing Erotica's game to torture (loving Ripard I don't really care to get into whether "they can leave at any time" is true or not, but there is ample evidence that the EULA has been broken, and not just out of game stuff. Whether the evidence is adequate for CCP (it is right at the edge of what they normally require) remains to be seen. mynnna fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 13:42
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Kheldragar posted:Plunger on head You rang?
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Mar 26, 2014 13:45
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wicking posted:This is true. Parts of the academic world also claim that the term psychopath is of no academic value and doesn't really exist, and that sociopath is the closest thing to a literal psychopath. I guess this has to do with sociopath being the term which implies anti-social behaviour. The Oxford dictionaries have sociopath as a synonym for psychopath, anyway - so it is safe to say that these terms are not mutually exclusive but rather trying to describe the same phenomena in perhaps slightly different ways. Yeah, they're two words inconsistently used to describe the same pattern of behaviour. It's pretty obvious from the academic literature/interacting with sociopaths that it is a permanent difference in the way the mind functions that goes quite deep and is probably totally incurable. Sociopaths are also not mentally disordered or delusional by default, (although in practice they often end up hugely maladjusted) as a result it's probably better to think of it as being similar in practice to the autistic spectrum wherein high-functioning individuals are very strange but not 'insane' by most definitions of mental illness, despite the fact that these people may be morally and ethically repulsive to you. It's also functionally a set of traits on a spectrum of severity rather than a binary; lots and lots of people are mildly sociopathic. The only reason this isn't more widely observed is because people have been fed a view of sociopathy that causes them to expect Hannibal Lector rather than the cast of Always Sunny in Philadelphia, which along with Trailer Park Boys absolutely nails how run-of-the-mill moderately functioning non-self aware sociopaths act. The closest diagnostic construct currently in widespread use to what was once called 'sociopathy' is Antisocial Personality Disorder, and debatably also the other Cluster-B personality disorders - IMO NPD and HPD are also the same general pattern of behavioural and psychological traits manifesting itself differently in different social environments. Some clinicians also think Borderline Personality Disorder is just another diagnosis of sociopathy but that particular topic is vastly contentious and generally to be avoided. The issue with said personality disorders is that they only 'fit' low-functioning sociopaths, and sociopaths who are maladjusted enough to fit a traditional ASPD diagnosis/get caught are actually pretty rare. A particularly well-adjusted sociopath will neither consider themselves to be insane or fit the traditional criteria for a mental illness, and in some cases won't be what a neurotypical person would consider 'evil' although in the majority of cases they will be pretty morally and ethically repulsive. Someone like Erotica 1 has all of the core traits of a 'sociopath' (weird monotone voice, total lack of guilt, striking lack of empathy, tendency to manipulative interpersonal behaviour) but won't necessarily fit the diagnostic criteria for a cluster-B personality disorder, so wouldn't be diagnosed as a 'sociopath' - however, this doesn't change the fact that that dude obviously is sociopathic because he fits an extremely consistent profile of 'soft' traits that have been connected with sociopathy for a very long time with sometimes startling consistency. For the record the oft-repeated idea that it's impossible to spot sociopaths is bullshit; there are several huge giveaways such as a certain style of monotone voice, extremely strong and 'fixed' eye contact, and a charismatic interpersonal style. You literally only need to explicitly spot one IRL and watch them for a while to develop a functioning socio radar and after a while you can spot people before they even start talking.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:46
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Dear jesus god. 
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Mar 26, 2014 13:49
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The Mittani was banned for a month for doing something out-of-game (Though in a CCP-setting, so not completely the same) so it's not unprecedented for them to ban someone for "harassment" that doesn't happen through the game client or the forums. I'm guessing they'll end up caving in to outside pressure this time as well, and end up banning Erotica1 when more and more sites run this story. And to be honest, I won't exactly shed any tears when he's gone.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:51
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Dear jesus god. I have a massive autistic obsession with this topic and will rant about it with the slightest provocation. For the record I ain't derailing things further but I get frustrated when people use that word as if it has no set definition and like, no way is that post not relevant to an EVE thread.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:53
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darth cookie posted:Unless CCP decides Erotica broke the rules somewhere or otherwise gave them reason to cancel his account (a bunch of bad PR might do it), its a non-issue. Which is not to say that I approve of Erotica's shenanigans. I personally find it creepy, weird, and pointlessly cruel, but I accept that not everyone does and that given that the victim can literally end the entire farce with one click at any time, he isn't being harassed or compelled or 'tortured'. Ripard's ridiculous and inflammatory blogspew was in many ways equally offensive in its own right; comparing Erotica's game to torture (loving Ripard I'm mostly with you, but in Erotica's case I feel like the morons he harms really are victims, and that victim blaming is asinine. That some people are dumb and don't realize their losses are sunk and being scammed is hard to sympathize with, but Erotica like every other scammer is trying to hide the fact the mark is being taken for a ride. The fact that he has a fairly nice voice and has a sociopathic will to use it helps him immensely. He is a very good scammer and if he wasn't taking this all about 200 steps too far I'd be impressed and admiring him right now. They are enduring excess 'torture' thinking they'll get their money back. They've bit the bait. Part of that whole isk doubling thing is stringing people along with 'honest' payouts, so the bonus round poo poo probably feels like a bad private japanese game show to the marks. I'm not saying these people aren't full stop retarded and I would love to have that isk instead of erotica, but i'd have parted those suckers with their money and let them call me all the racial epithets they want while I move on to the next mark. To use a fishing metaphor, when I catch a fish I either throw it back or kill it and eat it. Erotica is catching them, leaving the hooks in their mouths, putting them in a fish tank, and shaking fish food at them for laughs until they starve to death. There's a difference here, and the fish became a victim the moment Erotica decided to play with it rather than just use it up and move on.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:55
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Man, I do wish the "they can just walk away" canard would just die already. That's generally not how people work in high pressure social situations. Especially when you are dealing with a group of people who know how to set things up correctly. It's like all these people who think that they'd under no circumstances would falsely confess to a crime, or all the research showing that in group situations people will profess things they know are false if the other (planted) group members state they are true. Oh no, I'd be the proud strong willed individual at all times, an ubermensch whose will is always steel. (Btw, in many ways this would be the signs of a different sort of social maladjustment.) Erotica1 does know how to set the situation up correctly. The pulling people into teamspeak comms is not just to avoid EULA issues and the fact that Erotica1 is one of a group on teamspeak along with fellow "instigators" is also a key part to help ensure success. The slow escalations, the isolation of the target, turning it into a group social situation, making sure the banter is kept up and the target engaged and challenged at all times which would be difficult to maintain in a written format and so forth. I would actually be curious about the "hit rate" once they get people engaged on voice comms.
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Mar 26, 2014 13:55
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Munin posted:I would actually be curious about the "hit rate" once they get people engaged on voice comms. I've been in a few times and I never saw it fail. It must be spectacularly high. Remember that these people were already scammed before going into the bonus room, so the first cut of people that can resist it is already made. I agree with you that "you can walk away" is not how the human mind works. The situation is set up to take advantage of this, and if you think it'd never happen to you you're probably way overstating your own capabilities.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:09
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I guess that you can walk away isn't true only when you consider that everyone who left before the bonus room were people who really did walk away and the remaining ones can't.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:13
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Tolth posted:For the record the oft-repeated idea that it's impossible to spot sociopaths is bullshit; there are several huge giveaways such as a certain style of monotone voice, extremely strong and 'fixed' eye contact, and a charismatic interpersonal style. You literally only need to explicitly spot one IRL and watch them for a while to develop a functioning socio radar and after a while you can spot people before they even start talking.  with interesting input on the topic, and not to derail the current discussion, but could you maybe give a couple of references to the quoted statement (feel free to PM me to keep it out of the thread)? Esp. if you have any articles or books on the subject, because the "spotting" of *paths would be interesting to read up on a bit on my spare time when winning at Eve.On a more relevant sidenote, I expect the inner workings of spotting a sociopath might be similar to the ways these people spot their victims - and the fireball here being how to spot scammers and how scammers spot targets/victims. Because an effective scammer will quite quickly realise wether or not the target will be susceptible to a scam or not I believe.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:13
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Joining FW later and setting up in some 24th Imperial Crusade station. Thinking about Huola actually, since it's one jump from high-sec and 4 jumps from Amarr. This is so totally  Why don't you throw your alt in Fweddit/DnG?Huola is in Minmatar hands (i.e. you can't dock) and hasn't switched sides for 2 years. All of the Minmatar corps that aren't actually farmers stage out of there.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:17
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I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that all sociopaths, however you want to define the term, talk in a 'weird monotone'.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:17
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Avatars I can handle, name changes I can not. Good to be back.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:19
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vyst posted:Avatars I can handle, name changes I can not. Good to be back. Thank loving god, welcome back. Don't piss off mods who are mad about dairy products.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:20
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Jack the Lad posted:I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that all sociopaths, however you want to define the term, talk in a 'weird monotone'. I didn't say that all sociopaths always have an emotionless monotone; there is a particular style of shallow-affect and emotionless inflection that correlates very consistently though. wicking posted:Thanks for I ain't got PMs currently; there's a rather striking hole in the academic research as a result of the difficulty involved in studying people who will lie to you for fun, and as a result traditional psychiatry does not have consistent or strong conclusions on this. If you want an easy/useful casual read, literally the only large community of sociopaths online (since LF has sadly been deleted) is at https://www.sociopathworld.com (lmao); it suffers a lot from the author's narcissism/laziness and a lot of the commenters are either loving stupid psychos with nothing useful to say or teenagers, but the author is very definitely a high-functioning sociopath and so are some of the commenters. She describes the emotional deficits, the distorted sense-of-self and the complete lack of conventional morality very well and while a lot of her theories as to why these things occur are totally retarded, reading that blog is probably the easiest way to develop a better concept of how real socios work. Tolth fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 14:22
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Leo Showers posted:I'm not sure what I find more repulsive, the 130 page threadnaught about the blog post or all the pubbies crawling out of the woodwork to defend him. I hate that thread so much now. I went to sleep last night it was 40 something pages. It's 130+ now? The loving hell. Sjonkel posted:The Mittani was banned for a month for doing something out-of-game (Though in a CCP-setting, so not completely the same) so it's not unprecedented for them to ban someone for "harassment" that doesn't happen through the game client or the forums. I'm guessing they'll end up caving in to outside pressure this time as well, and end up banning Erotica1 when more and more sites run this story. And to be honest, I won't exactly shed any tears when he's gone. If they actually ban him, then CCP would have to declare what he did; how he broke the rules and why it matters. And even if CCP doesn't make any announcement as to why he was banned (if they ban him), it still caused unnecessary attention. The catch is this attention might cause CCP to become more against scamming and more aware of the "blurred lines." Scamming people and having them do certain things might become something of the past like making people sing on comms for stuff, maybe by banning out of game communications entirely during scams. Or, getting someone to do stupid things in space for stuff, etc. I'm interested to see where this goes, but personally, I Kjep64 fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 14:26
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So, what is this Erotica crap about and why this thread has literally gone mental?
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Mar 26, 2014 14:32
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Creepy weird rear end turns a scam up to uncomfortable levels of being unpleasant on the internet. Goons strangely uncomfortable with it. You are now caught up.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:35
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Klyith posted:I tried a different place but can't be bothered to use a site that requires making an account just to upload a bad mp3. Sorry about your overly trusting browser. Ripard must be giggling with glee. Sjonkel posted:The Mittani was banned for a month for doing something out-of-game (Though in a CCP-setting, so not completely the same) so it's not unprecedented for them to ban someone for "harassment" that doesn't happen through the game client or the forums. I'm guessing they'll end up caving in to outside pressure this time as well, and end up banning Erotica1 when more and more sites run this story. And to be honest, I won't exactly shed any tears when he's gone. If I remember correctly he got banned due to a CSM related bylaw, not directly for what he said. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 14:46
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kalstrams posted:So, what is this Erotica crap about and why this thread has literally gone mental? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=332182 https://soundcloud.com/kalorned/erotica1bonusroom_sohkar - just skip to 1:45 Rhymenoserous posted:Creepy weird rear end turns a scam up to uncomfortable levels of being unpleasant on the internet. Goons strangely uncomfortable with it. You are now caught up. Pretty much, though I'm not sure most Goons are uncomfortable with it. Some are, but more of wouldn't do it as it is, for the most part, a waste of time. You could spend that time looking for other marks, or scamming other marks.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:48
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Mittani got banned because it was at fan fest.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:51
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Honestly it makes me cagey because it's easy for people to argue the line between what Erotica 1 does and what every other scammer does is arbitrary. To a degree this is true and if Erotica 1 has somehow found that magic line and crossed it in a public manner, CCP might react stupidly. If that retard Ripard Teg doesn't get off his soapbox and places like Massively run with this poo poo more it's going to have to be addressed in some way, probably in a way no goon is going to like. That's what I see and how I feel. Someone step in and correct me; so that my final thought ever about erotica 1 is "Good God that fuckstick is creepy." then I forget he exists and I get on with playing Eve.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:53
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Munin posted:Man, I do wish the "they can just walk away" canard would just die already. That's generally not how people work in high pressure social situations. Especially when you are dealing with a group of people who know how to set things up correctly. I wish you'd shut the hell up, it's about greed. Greed gets the best of them so they stay and take abuse. Nothing more than that and a touch of the 'tism. edit: this isn't like hey come onto our teamspeak we're friends now, this is three part scam where they lose all their money, the second time as some sort of vague "give us everything you own and we'll double it" jita isk doubler scheme or some poo poo, and then they're still somehow convinced in their little greedy hindbrains that this is all a japanese gameshow and they'll totally get paid in the end. FruitNYogurtParfait fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 14:53
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Realistically, come on, any online company has a generic clause in their ToS that lets them ban pretty much anybody they don't want playing their game if they feel like it. EvE's harassment / griefing policy actually reads pretty much like any other MMO's it's just the way GMs typically enforce it that's different. They know they serve a niche so they're waiting to see where their crazy libertarian fanbase stands on the issue of being a dick on the internet and to see if they get poo poo from the gaming press this time or it just blows over - before they take an action. But in the end if they decide it makes buisness sense to ban you can be sure they can ban just about anyone and point to some vaguely-worded rule.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:59
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Skuto posted:This is so totally I am also flailing around blindly in FW and could probably use a hand; how should I go about getting in touch with fweddit people to either join or just hang out with? I've run some level 1 missions without getting my poo poo wrecked, but I also joined Caldari instead of Amarr so clearly I need some help here.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:01
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hemophilia posted:Honestly it makes me cagey because it's easy for people to argue the line between what Erotica 1 does and what every other scammer does is arbitrary. To a degree this is true and if Erotica 1 has somehow found that magic line and crossed it in a public manner, CCP might react stupidly. If that retard Ripard Teg doesn't get off his soapbox and places like Massively run with this poo poo more it's going to have to be addressed in some way, probably in a way no goon is going to like. No, I agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, this could end badly for scamming. With all the attention this is getting and picking up CCP will most likely make a statement about this sooner, or later. And, it could be bad, or something "no goon is going to like."
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Mar 26, 2014 15:03
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This thread is really derailed, maybe Louisgod or Kewpuh can make a "cyberbullying in video game land is bad" thread for this discussion to go in. In EVE news, Waffles apparently un-blued those dirty FW guys. The people were seen rejoicing in the streets of Black Rise.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:05
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Uba Stij posted:This thread is really derailed, maybe Louisgod or Kewpuh can make a "cyberbullying in video game land is bad" thread for this discussion to go in. Or you could.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:06
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Fallorn posted:Mittani got banned because it was at fan fest. Well he got banned because it was in public and CCP couldn't hide from it in a culture where "cyberbullying" has become a social justice issue. If it was done in a room full of nerds and not being streamed CCP wouldn't have given a poo poo or at least not nearly as much of a poo poo as they do now.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:06
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Dauq posted:Realistically, come on, any online company has a generic clause in their ToS that lets them ban pretty much anybody they don't want playing their game if they feel like it. Here's where it says they can ban anyone for no reason: quote:LICENSE Edit: Well, not ban your account, just take away your license to use the game client 
A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 15:11
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Uba Stij posted:This thread is really derailed, maybe Louisgod or Kewpuh can make a "cyberbullying in video game land is bad" thread for this discussion to go in. It's not really derailed when it'd discussing a hot subject in the game right now due to the actions of one of the players. This has everything to do with eve online, you just don't like the subject. That and nothing else interesting is going on.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:13
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So, a few English-speaking Kaschenites and a nervous person. You Westerers are a strange bunch, to give attention to such matters.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:16
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Dauq posted:Realistically, come on, any online company has a generic clause in their ToS that lets them ban pretty much anybody they don't want playing their game if they feel like it. I don't really see how a ban would serve any purpose whatsoever; this is a person with a ludicrous supply of ISK that allows near-unlimited plexing of accounts, a shitload of accounts and characters, and absolutely no requirement for a high-SP character in order to do his 'thang. If they ban Erotica he's just going to switch accounts and I seriously doubt that is a person who will be meaningfully deterred by an IP ban. In reality banning-or-not-banning this dude just serves as an official statement as to the acceptability of that style of scamming.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:16
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