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vyst posted:Well he got banned because it was in public and CCP couldn't hide from it in a culture where "cyberbullying" has become a social justice issue. If it was done in a room full of nerds and not being streamed CCP wouldn't have given a poo poo or at least not nearly as much of a poo poo as they do now. There was also the issue of him becoming (or remaining, rather) an official representative of the game. During the Summer of Rage, he was plastered all over the gaming media due to his position, and there really was no way they could allow him to do that with that kind of baggage. It's essentially the same logic as why they shut down that neo-nazi guy's CSM candidacy: popular vote or no, it was not something CCP wanted to be associated with their outwards-facing community image.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:21
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Tolth posted:I don't really see how a ban would serve any purpose whatsoever; this is a person with a ludicrous supply of ISK that allows near-unlimited plexing of accounts, a shitload of accounts and characters, and absolutely no requirement for a high-SP character in order to do his 'thang. If they ban Erotica he's just going to switch accounts and I seriously doubt that is a person who will be meaningfully deterred by an IP ban. In reality banning-or-not-banning this dude just serves as an official statement as to the acceptability of that style of scamming. Vyst touched on this earlier. I agree that a ban won't stop people from doing things like this, but it will make those people less likely to record and publish it when they do it.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:22
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Skuto posted:This is so totally Ashcans posted:I am also flailing around blindly in FW and could probably use a hand; how should I go about getting in touch with fweddit people to either join or just hang out with? I've run some level 1 missions without getting my poo poo wrecked, but I also joined Caldari instead of Amarr so clearly I need some help here. You know what? Why the gently caress not. Trying to make sense of this and reinventing the wheel myself has had me tripping over my feet a bunch of times, let's join up with Fweddit and get some pointers there. I don't qualify for Fweddit because I don't have a Reddit account or know anyone there that would vouch me in. 
Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 15:28
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Why don't you throw your alt in Fweddit/DnG?
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Ashcans posted:I am also flailing around blindly in FW and could probably use a hand; how should I go about getting in touch with fweddit people to either join or just hang out with? I've run some level 1 missions without getting my poo poo wrecked, but I also joined Caldari instead of Amarr so clearly I need some help here. Note that Fweddit has standing orders to awox the Caldari militia. Where are you missioning with that T3 again? If you have a reddit account for a while and posted a few times, you might already be eligible for Fweddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/fweddit/comments/19r3fr/fweddit_recruitment_policy_update/ The activity requirements are pretty lax. More of an "don't be an obvious spy" rather than "be a spergposter". If not, Dirt 'n' Glitter recruits publicly via "dirtnglitter" in-game. They have no specific requirements save an API key: http://www.reddit.com/r/DirtnGlitter/ Which corp you're in doesn't really matter. All communication is done via alliance Jabber, which you can just keep connected simultaneously with the goonfleet one. Hiowf fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 15:30
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Uba Stij posted:This thread is really derailed, maybe Louisgod or Kewpuh can make a "cyberbullying in video game land is bad" thread for this discussion to go in. I get that maybe you don't want to discuss it, but this is on topic. Erotica 1 has a 139 page thread about him on the official Eve forums. A CCP employee has noted he is watching and that CCP is aware of what's going on. Erotica 1's stupid loving sociopathy that is taking place inside Eve Online, where he is taking Eve players and stealing their Eve assets, then manipulating them in arguably cruel ways; might, maybe, just saying, potentially alter or destroy a part of the metagame some people care about. CCP isn't nuanced with bad press. Erotica 1 is probably going to get fried and it's easy to say as an Eve playing goon, "his victims are morons who should have known better and could have stopped it if they wanted. nobody cares." but thinking that this attitude flies in any other parts of Eve or the greater gaming community is insane. This could end badly if you like to scam. This could end badly if you're even 1/32 the sociopath Erotica 1 is.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:31
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Tolth posted:I don't really see how a ban would serve any purpose whatsoever; this is a person with a ludicrous supply of ISK that allows near-unlimited plexing of accounts, a shitload of accounts and characters, and absolutely no requirement for a high-SP character in order to do his 'thang. If they ban Erotica he's just going to switch accounts and I seriously doubt that is a person who will be meaningfully deterred by an IP ban. In reality banning-or-not-banning this dude just serves as an official statement as to the acceptability of that style of scamming. Banning his main/hardware bans etc will probably make him mad, and thus create content. See also: previous cases of bans.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:32
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Munin posted:Man, I do wish the "they can just walk away" canard would just die already. That's generally not how people work in high pressure social situations. Especially when you are dealing with a group of people who know how to set things up correctly. If you're not bright enough to realize you can click on a single button and make all those voices telling you to do things go away, I don't know how better to explain it. I'm all for getting rid of erotica since he's a creepy spastic publord, but for gently caress's sake the mark is at least half as responsible for this whole poo poo show.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:45
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deadtear posted:I wish you'd shut the hell up, it's about greed. Greed gets the best of them so they stay and take abuse. Nothing more than that and a touch of the 'tism. Greed is the initial hook but once it goes part a certain point the social dynamics take over. There is also no need to any 'tism your perfectly normal hindbrain does all the work. In fact autism would in many ways inhibit the social dynamics I'm alluding to. You don't need to be some sort of sub-human to end up in a situation like this. It very definitely isn't "hey come onto our teamspeak we're friends now" and I never even hinted that it was. We both know that isn't how it's pitched. It's obvious from the recordings. This is very much an EVE discussion. Scamming and harvesting tears is a core part of the EVE experience for a very large part of the player base. I find it funny how people want to shut this discussion down now some of the creepier elements of it are coming under the spotlight. Especially when the possibility gets discussed that the marks might not be sub-human incompetents and that the scammers who push people the furthest might in fact be good at manipulating people. Anyway, the last thing anyone should want is a "now we can't have nice things" situation. Having repeated events like this where someone pushed things way over, what many people consider to be, the limit without them being challenged or otherwise reined in, it will lead to a draconian crackdown further down the line when something serious does happen. When you listen to the recordings it becomes very clear that quite a few of these people reach a state where something serious conceivably could happen.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:51
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Munin posted:You don't need to be some sort of sub-human to end up in a situation like this. All I wanted you to admit, these are perfectly capable grown adult humans and therefore it's their fault they didn't walk away.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:53
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Munin posted:You don't need to be some sort of sub-human to end up in a situation like this. People don't need to be sub-human in order to be dumb.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:55
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I don't qualify for Fweddit because I don't have a Reddit account or know anyone there that would vouch me in. There are other corps in In Whip My Slaves Back And Forth that take pubbies like you (hah!), see my post above.
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Mar 26, 2014 15:56
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deadtear posted:All I wanted you to admit, these are perfectly capable grown adult humans and therefore it's their fault they didn't walk away. It's like personal responsibility and fault are multi-faceted concepts where both sides of an interaction are responsible for what they do!
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Mar 26, 2014 15:56
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Munin posted:I find it funny how people want to shut this discussion down now some of the creepier elements of it are coming under the spotlight. I, for example, can not be arsed to scroll through multiple pages of "I have never seen Kaschenites on Internet before." discussion that does not really belong to this thread at this point, as we already have this thread invested by adepts of various pseudo-sciences.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:06
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What the hell is a kaschenite?
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Mar 26, 2014 16:08
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deadtear posted:What the hell is a kaschenite? Apparently it's russian slang for crazy person. Also now I've been sucked into TVTropes at work, so thanks for that.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:11
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deadtear posted:All I wanted you to admit, these are perfectly capable grown adult humans and therefore it's their fault they didn't walk away. The problem with this line of thinking is that by placing the blame on the victim, whoever he is or whatever his flaws might be, you are essentially exhonerating Erotica1 for his particular brand of exceptionally toxic dickishness. The point generally being made is not that the guy didnt deserve to be scammed, or that he was incapable of leaving. If I point a gun at someone, and tell them I will pull the trigger in 10 seconds, its still murder if they decide not to move. How you act towards people will generally be a function of what you think of them, but most people have basic minimum parameters. In this case, a lot of people found that how the victim was treated was outside of what they would consider basic minimum parameters. Putting the victim on trial only clouds the issue. I realize its probably not your intention, but saying "he should have just walked away" comes across to some people as a defense of Erotica1.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:11
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vyst posted:Well he got banned because it was in public and CCP couldn't hide from it in a culture where "cyberbullying" has become a social justice issue. If it was done in a room full of nerds and not being streamed CCP wouldn't have given a poo poo or at least not nearly as much of a poo poo as they do now. For those of us that have been away from the game for a while can someone succinctly summarise what mittens did to a room full of nerds?
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Mar 26, 2014 16:12
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deadtear posted:All I wanted you to admit, these are perfectly capable grown adult humans and therefore it's their fault they didn't walk away. Are we playing the same game? I'm convinced half of eve players are logging in from mental wards. Now that I think about it that goes for just about every other MMO too.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:14
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Skuto posted:Note that Fweddit has standing orders to awox the Caldari militia. Where are you missioning with that T3 again? I'll probably drop and switch into Amarr, there is really no reason to be in Caldari, I just wanted to jump in quickly and see how poo poo works. quote:If you have a reddit account for a while and posted a few times, you might already be eligible for Fweddit:
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Mar 26, 2014 16:14
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deadtear posted:What the hell is a kaschenite? Kaschenite is someone who engages in Kaschenism - type of network trolling that was born at the end of 90s in Russian parts of FidoNet. Original scheme was to provoke other party with Semitic topics, using pseudo-psychiatric lexicon and overwhelming amount of questions. Eventually this thing evolved into just loving around with people on the Internet, exploiting various psy-something techniques to "get" the "target" to the maximum.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:18
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Myssu posted:I realize its probably not your intention, but saying "he should have just walked away" comes across to some people as a defense of Erotica1. Rhymenoserous posted:Are we playing the same game? I'm convinced half of eve players are logging in from mental wards. They are for all intents and purposes adults capable of making decisions and consenting. To strip them of the consent having meaning is incredibly patronizing and frankly humiliating. It also leads down all sorts of nasty big brother protection from self rabbit holes. kalstrams posted:Kaschenite is someone who engages in Kaschenism - type of network trolling that was born at the end of 90s in Russian parts of FidoNet. Original scheme was to provoke other party with Semitic topics, using pseudo-psychiatric lexicon and overwhelming amount of questions. Eventually this thing evolved into just loving around with people on the Internet, exploiting various psy-something techniques to "get" the "target" to the maximum. So it functionally means "good troll" but is a way better word, thanks! FruitNYogurtParfait fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:19
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deadtear posted:All I wanted you to admit, these are perfectly capable grown adult humans and therefore it's their fault they didn't walk away. It's almost as if scamming somehow involves some sort of process of weeding out people who aren't perfectly capable. Getting involved with Eve is straight up consent to have anything you invest in the game taken away from you. Beyond that, let's not get into libertarian perfect-knowledge-rational-actor bullshit. There's a reason what happens in the game is supposed to stay in the game. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:25
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Cease to Hope posted:It's almost as if scamming somehow involves some sort of process of weeding out people who aren't perfectly capable. It's almost like that last guy already said a similar thing and then came back around to say they're not subhuman like you're implying 
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Mar 26, 2014 16:29
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By the way, the Chinese supercapital-fight is finally over. Final tally is at somewhat around 105 dead titans.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:29
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deadtear posted:I'm defending him insofar as his actions were only possible by the action or lack thereof by the marks. This is not the only thing that made his actions possible. The other thing that made his actions possible was his desire to break another person.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:30
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deadtear posted:It's almost like that last guy already said a similar thing and then came back around to say they're not subhuman like you're implying Not being a perfectly knowledgeable rational actor doesn't make you subhuman. It makes you not a resident of Libertarian Fantasy Land.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:30
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Libluini posted:By the way, the Chinese supercapital-fight is finally over. So much for our loving record. EDIT: also not entirely convinced that we'd win the war if the two servers clashed anymore.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:31
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 Was this discussed?
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Mar 26, 2014 16:32
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Cease to Hope posted:Not being a perfectly knowledgeable rational actor doesn't make you subhuman. It makes you not a resident of Libertarian Fantasy Land. They are in fact residents by virtue of playing EvE O N L I N E, the premier and possibly only consequence-less sociopath simulator. kalstrams posted:
It's just some plex, people have lost dozens in frigates/shuttles.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:35
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If the mark learns from their experience then it's an inexpensive life lesson to lose a bag of rifters and some isk. They might find it personally traumatizing, but it is that trauma drives the lesson home. People need to learn to deal with scammers. A virtual spaceship sandbox is as benign a schoolroom as any. In his own special way, erotica1 is providing a social service by cruelly divesting people of virtual items having no meaningful real life value and by helping them calibrate their self image. He's teaching them before they get scammed out of real property or life savings. He's teaching them before they get scammed into bad debts, being drug mules, or adopting kids they thinks are theirs. He's an rear end in a top hat, but he's only a 4 on a 1-10 scale of assholery. Granted, there are people who will refuse to learn the lesson they have been provided. They will be victims for life in every environment. White knighting for these people is futile and will make you cynical and maladjusted.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:37
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patentmagus posted:If the mark learns from their experience then it's an inexpensive life lesson to lose a bag of rifters and some isk. They might find it personally traumatizing, but it is that trauma drives the lesson home. People need to learn to deal with scammers. A virtual spaceship sandbox is as benign a schoolroom as any. To be fair here, he's hitting people who didn't learn the lesson at least twice.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:39
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deadtear posted:It's just some plex, people have lost dozens in frigates/shuttles. It has been some time since I have seen 6 PLEX drop.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:40
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deadtear posted:They are in fact residents by virtue of playing EvE O N L I N E, the premier and possibly only consequence-less sociopath simulator. And nobody here's arguing that taking everything someone has in Eve from foolish people is somehow unacceptable. It's acceptable not because it's perfectly AOK to endlessly torment people for being foolish, but rather because Eve is a game you don't play unless you're ready to have everything you have in the game taken from you. Like I said before, taking someone for everyone they own in order to make them sad is part of the game. Using everything they own as leverage over them to continue to abuse and humiliate them outside of the game, not so much. That leverage doesn't magically go away because a guy on the internet has pointed out that they could ignore it.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:42
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patentmagus posted:White knighting for these people is futile and will make you cynical and maladjusted. The phrase "white knight" being used as a verb! Mark your bingo cards everybody! Edit: Serious reply: I dont think most people here are talking about protecting EvE Online as a safe playground for those of questionable intelligence. It's more just seeing a dick acting like a dick and saying "wow, that guy's a dick". Which requires a pretty heavy level of dickishness, for a community that revels in scamming others out of their space-belongings. Myssu fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:44
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Cease to Hope posted:Like I said before, taking someone for everyone they own in order to make them sad is part of the game. Using everything they own as leverage over them to continue to abuse and humiliate them outside of the game, not so much. That leverage doesn't magically go away because a guy on the internet has pointed out that they could ignore it. Let's agree to disagree and talk about spaceships instead.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:52
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Cease to Hope posted:Like I said before, taking someone for everyone they own in order to make them sad is part of the game. Using everything they own as leverage over them to continue to abuse and humiliate them outside of the game, not so much. That leverage doesn't magically go away because a guy on the internet has pointed out that they could ignore it. It has nothing to do with what a guy on the internet has pointed out. There is no "leverage" you can get from EVE online the video game that you can hold over me irl if i don't allow you to. There's no leverage i can gain over you in these forums to get you from arguing stupid poo poo in a thread for a game you admittedly don't even play would be another example of this.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:54
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deadtear posted:Let's agree to disagree and talk about spaceships instead. I like sabres cynabals and falcons. Mexplosivo posted:It has nothing to do with what a guy on the internet has pointed out. There is no "leverage" you can get from EVE online the video game that you can hold over me irl if i don't allow you to. Actually we're holding blawrfs unique kink status over his head to keep him doing what he does with recon. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 16:55
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Rhymenoserous posted:I like sabres cynabals and falcons. When you say cynabal you mean omen navy issue, right? 
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Mar 26, 2014 16:56
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Rhymenoserous posted:I like sabres cynabals and falcons. I like falcons.
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Mar 26, 2014 16:57
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Rhymenoserous posted:I like sabres cynabals and falcons. Does Cynabal fleet kills Drake fleet?
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Mar 26, 2014 16:58
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