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 It was meant as in "copyright that cool combination of words", which then came out wrong, but thanks anyway as I did struggle to remember which one of the similar (to the layman at least) terms it was.Deconstructing my own jokes. 
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Mar 22, 2014 22:32
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:If you want to do something slightly different, consider other things which come in tetrads, then apply the attributes of those things to the Horsemen. The first thing which comes to my mind is the seasons, so discard that idea immediately because it's way too obvious. I think that I might do what you're saying here. I just need to come up with something that makes sense and fits the tone of the story. The seasons thing is really obvious, but already I am thinking of an idea that the outdated ideas from the four horsemen in the Bible were replaced with new ideas. I think I could come up with some really good ideas before I actually have to use them. CommissarMega posted:I know Chinese/Japanese culture has a "4 = Death" thing, because the words for each sound very alike; maybe you can have your Four Horsemen be inspired by that? Like, maybe Chinese generals or samurai etc. I also don't know the tone of what you're writing, CB_Tube_Knight, but you could also base your Horsemen on the Four Musketeers (including D'Artagnan), 4 jolly bros having wild apocalyptic adventures. If you're not going to do the latter though, please tell me because holy poo poo, now I want to do it. I kind of had this idea, except they were all women. But four bros of the Apocalypse.
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Mar 23, 2014 06:59
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CommissarMega posted:you could also base your Horsemen on the Four Musketeers (including D'Artagnan), 4 jolly bros having wild apocalyptic adventures. If you're not going to do the latter though, please tell me because holy poo poo, now I want to do it. Just somebody please do it. Man, public domain characters are the best.
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Mar 23, 2014 16:16
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PoshAlligator posted:Just somebody please do it. I feel like I am wasting the horsemen if I don't use them in something alone properly.
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Mar 23, 2014 23:10
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:I feel like I am wasting the horsemen if I don't use them in something alone properly. Any instance where the horsemen are not strolling through a Dark Souls-esque world high-fiving each other is wasting them. The one exception was "Good Omens" because they had those sweet-rear end Harleys.
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Mar 24, 2014 01:09
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:I feel like I am wasting the horsemen if I don't use them in something alone properly. just a random reminder not to confuse premise with story.
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Mar 24, 2014 01:17
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3Romeo posted:just a random reminder not to confuse premise with story. Quite often I have an idea for a premise, and then I don't touch it for ages until I just randomly stumble upon a point and story to the premise. I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it right. But whatever, it stops me from jumping the gun on something and writing 10-20 pages that will just be cut. And considering I mainly write short stories that's like around a whole story's worth.
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Mar 24, 2014 01:27
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You could take a more active part of your story process. Instead of randomly stumbling upon a story, use a pencil and paper and do some random associations. Get the old gears working and you never know what might pop out.
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Mar 24, 2014 02:23
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How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both?
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Mar 24, 2014 02:53
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CommissarMega posted:How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both? Depends. I prefer gradual myself as I'm okay with a bit of mystery so long as the story is flowing and it feels like stuff is going somewhere. But dumping it all out there could work if you are super entertaining in how you do it. But I feel that is a much more difficult thing to pull off compared to just revealing things slowly through the character's interactions with stuff and what not.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:12
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blue squares posted:You could take a more active part of your story process. Instead of randomly stumbling upon a story, use a pencil and paper and do some random associations. Get the old gears working and you never know what might pop out. The best I can do with this are sort of mind maps with arrows. It's better than nothing.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:15
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CommissarMega posted:How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both? Here's a video by Brandon Sanderson talking about infodumps, he explains how to gradually add things in if you have to. He specifically talks about genre, but there's no reason you can't apply what he says to non-genre writing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KtggfHY7qo
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Mar 24, 2014 03:27
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CommissarMega posted:How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both? The key thing is to ensure readability in your story. Infodumps are generally not necessary so it'd be better to have them gradually revealed, and only bring it up if it is absolutely crucial for the reader to understand something unfamiliar (more often that not, it would not be crucial), or if you need it to build atmosphere. It's usually less interesting than the writer thinks it is, and it just kills pacing, obstruct the story, or stop people from reading altogether.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:34
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Whalley posted:Here's a video by Brandon Sanderson talking about infodumps, he explains how to gradually add things in if you have to. He specifically talks about genre, but there's no reason you can't apply what he says to non-genre writing. This is a good click but holy poo poo that goon down front.  I don't really spend more than a paragraph or two on setting when my characters go into a new area. I'm more interested in what they're thinking or how they react to changing environments. The only time I really do any kind of infodumping is in situations that are explicitly visual. Going to an ancient city that shouldn't exist? Ok, well I'll certainly describe the initial look of the place, how the character sees it at first glance. But as far as the culture, how their worldview is set, and so on? Spread that poo poo out. Give your reader something to look forward to as they go on. If you were, say, kidnapped and taken to the middle of Peru on a whim, would you really expect to know the intricacies of their economy and culture just by looking at their city? No, of course not. You might get a general impression, but you would have to interact with people and explore to really understand it. The same applies to your characters. And, in having your characters gradually learn about their setting, you are also building up said character through their interactions and impressions. You get to do two things with the same words! If you just dumped all that info out, not only is it boring to read, but you're effectively giving yourself more work than necessary because you don't get that two-way street.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:41
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Well, the thing is I want to introduce a few things, like a race of empaths and a generally accepted group of people who just happen to be possessed by demons ("We prefer the term 'Unified' or 'Refugees', thank you very much."). I was just wondering if I should add in a two/three sentence paragraph about how these dudes are empaths, and those dudes are demonic immigrants.
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Mar 24, 2014 03:58
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CommissarMega posted:Well, the thing is I want to introduce a few things, like a race of empaths and a generally accepted group of people who just happen to be possessed by demons ("We prefer the term 'Unified' or 'Refugees', thank you very much."). I was just wondering if I should add in a two/three sentence paragraph about how these dudes are empaths, and those dudes are demonic immigrants. Who are you explaining it to? Someone from the world who would know this stuff? Or are you "turning to address the camera"? It sounds like you need a clueless new guy who doesn't know about that stuff and needs it explained to them.
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Mar 24, 2014 04:05
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You could have a butler and a maid, and the maid was just hired, so the butler is explaining to her what empaths are and how high their powerlevels are etc.
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Mar 24, 2014 04:07
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Someone from the world who would know this stuff? That's the problem- as far as every character is concerned, this poo poo's 100% normal to them. Seeing a dude's eyes turn red and hearing his voice turn growly as the ambient temperature rises is seen as a cultural thing. CLARIFICATION EDIT: Basically, I want the reader to feel like the fish out of water, at least at first, and I was wondering whether being subtle in the beginning and hoping for learning through immersion would alienate people.
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Mar 24, 2014 04:10
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CommissarMega posted:Well, the thing is I want to introduce a few things, like a race of empaths and a generally accepted group of people who just happen to be possessed by demons ("We prefer the term 'Unified' or 'Refugees', thank you very much."). I was just wondering if I should add in a two/three sentence paragraph about how these dudes are empaths, and those dudes are demonic immigrants. Sounds like a case for Blatantly Racist Guy to come in an drop some wisdom in a drunken stupor. vvv This guy gets it. gently caress those empaths. I don't care if you "totally get" what that old lady is going through. Our life insurance policies have no exceptions. 
Axel Serenity fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 04:16
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CommissarMega posted:Well, the thing is I want to introduce a few things, like a race of empaths and a generally accepted group of people who just happen to be possessed by demons ("We prefer the term 'Unified' or 'Refugees', thank you very much."). I was just wondering if I should add in a two/three sentence paragraph about how these dudes are empaths, and those dudes are demonic immigrants. Carl rolled his eyes as he looked the resume over. "I'm not hiring another empath, Lindsay. Not after the last one tried to psychoanalyze my wife. I'd rather take a burn-out dipshit in a band shirt getting possessed by a demon. Sorry, I meant someone who's 'Unified' with a 'Refugee'." He made airquotes as he spoke. "At least those guys have a work ethic." "That's really insensitive. My brother is Unified," Lindsay said. "He hasn't been able to hold down a job in seven years. Azjeroth makes him smell of sulfur and decaying flesh." "I've met your brother. He doesn't bathe and he eats hard-boiled eggs, that's his problem, not some loving refugee from an infernal dimension. Who else you got? These auto parts don't sell themselves."
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Mar 24, 2014 04:56
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:I feel like I am wasting the horsemen if I don't use them in something alone properly. Solution: write a series of short stories utilizing the the Four Horsemen template in different ways.  Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Carl rolled his eyes as he looked the resume over. "I'm not hiring another empath, Lindsay. Not after the last one tried to psychoanalyze my wife. I'd rather take a burn-out dipshit in a band shirt getting possessed by a demon. Sorry, I meant someone who's 'Unified' with a 'Refugee'." He made airquotes as he spoke. "At least those guys have a work ethic."
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Mar 24, 2014 12:28
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Axel Serenity posted:Any instance where the horsemen are not strolling through a Dark Souls-esque world high-fiving each other is wasting them. I think I kind of felt disappointed in the whole Good Omens thing in the end. I just finished it , as in today, after years of being told I had to read it and that it was so amazing. I have several friends who swear by it, but in the end I kind of just enjoyed some of the parts. The Dark Souls thing is probably too dark. I don't want to write about any place that awful. 3Romeo posted:just a random reminder not to confuse premise with story. I am pretty good about this. The last two things I've tried to write started out as a premise and grew from there. But I can tell when something is just a cool set up with no plot and take it from that by thinking of an interesting situation to go through. Green Crayons posted:Well, you're never going to use them in something properly if you just take a single stab at it. True, but I need to figure out what my horsemen are exactly before I do to much with what they do. The idea of different things that come in fours and what they represent is pretty interesting and I think I am going to play with that a little more. I actually had a short story collection about the four horsemen fighting these four regular women--I don't know what happened to that but I need to find it again.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:52
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Hey I wrote a thing, you can read it here. http://propserial.wordpress.com/ A bit of a warning first, I'm a awful writer. I'm quite heavily dyslexic, and this whole story thing is more of an attempt to get over my fear of writing than it is about writing anything good. So some advice would be great, but I'm kinda shooting for is it readable rather than is it good. That said, I do hope you enjoy it. 
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Mar 25, 2014 22:45
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It is readable. You have some issues with grammar (a lot of missing commas) that lead to ambiguous (albeit hilarious) statements like "As I entered Dad." I read about half and got bored, mostly because I didn't know what was the main motivation was. She was going to go get some chip implanted in her brain for whatever reason, and she was scared. I don't know why she needed the chip or what it would do, so I didn't know what her limitations were. You at least need to tease me with the knowledge if you're going to draw it out, because your character already knows, and I should know too if I'm going to understand her. You have a bit few too many adjectives for my taste. But I've seen worse written by "not dyslexic" people.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:54
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Yeah, don't lead up to the interesting bit - start with the interesting bit. You put words together in a way that doesn't nauseate me, but that is a bar that's handily cleared by a shopping list. Why do we care? Why is this going to reward the time we spend reading it? Answer that in the first 10 words if you can, the first 100 words if you must.
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Mar 25, 2014 23:03
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Thanks for looking, I have to admit Im not quite sure what the main motivation is either, I kinda just sat down and wrote it. I'll take another look at it.quote:But I've seen worse written by "not dyslexic" people. haha that's a boost to the ego, thanks dude.
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Mar 25, 2014 23:04
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I've been in an interesting gulch regarding my writing for the past couple of weeks. Kind of hectic time in my life, but its mostly about what I'm writing. For my next chapter for the thingie I'm writing, I have to write a battle scene, and for the life of me I can't quite get up the motivation to write it. Its so....conventional, the ur-hero fantasy stuff of strong warriors killing people impressively, enough so that I'm rolling my eyes writing it. I've tried to spice it up with out and out weirdness, and its a necessary component to what comes after, its upending, but do other people have this problem. A lack of patience with writing stuff that doesn't exactly sing on the page, to better pay off stuff later?
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Mar 27, 2014 23:49
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Shageletic posted:I've been in an interesting gulch regarding my writing for the past couple of weeks. Kind of hectic time in my life, but its mostly about what I'm writing. For my next chapter for the thingie I'm writing, I have to write a battle scene, and for the life of me I can't quite get up the motivation to write it. Its so....conventional, the ur-hero fantasy stuff of strong warriors killing people impressively, enough so that I'm rolling my eyes writing it. I've tried to spice it up with out and out weirdness, and its a necessary component to what comes after, its upending, but do other people have this problem. A lack of patience with writing stuff that doesn't exactly sing on the page, to better pay off stuff later? I usually skip right over it for the time being and then usually find I didn't need to make as big of a song and dance about it as I first thought when I come back to it. If you're sort of bored writing it, then I figure that's your brain telling you that something needs to change.
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Mar 28, 2014 00:45
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Shageletic posted:I've been in an interesting gulch regarding my writing for the past couple of weeks. Kind of hectic time in my life, but its mostly about what I'm writing. For my next chapter for the thingie I'm writing, I have to write a battle scene, and for the life of me I can't quite get up the motivation to write it. Its so....conventional, the ur-hero fantasy stuff of strong warriors killing people impressively, enough so that I'm rolling my eyes writing it. I've tried to spice it up with out and out weirdness, and its a necessary component to what comes after, its upending, but do other people have this problem. A lack of patience with writing stuff that doesn't exactly sing on the page, to better pay off stuff later? Yeah. You're getting a message from you to you. Try taking a hard left and see where you end up. What if the warrior loses? What if the fight isn't what they think? What is it that they didn't realise but should have?
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Mar 28, 2014 01:43
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Your writing is inherently way more interesting to you than it is to anyone else. If you think "this scene is boring", stop. Evaluate what you're writing. Why is a boring thing relevant to your plot? Why can't you skip over it? If you can't skip over it, how can you make it more interesting? Seb's got the right idea. If what you're doing isn't interesting, do something that you wouldn't expect. And if you absolutely have to do something expected, use unexpected words. Describe the sky as the color of a dead TV station. Have clocks chiming thirteen. If you're saying something everyone can expect in the way everyone expects to hear it, why are you writing it in the first place?
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Mar 28, 2014 02:29
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Just go right to the next chapter. Start it with, "and after that big rear end battle..." This has worked for me in every single none of my published works. Oh, and here. https://medium.com/the-writing-process
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Mar 28, 2014 04:59
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Our very own Thunderdome has a strong emphasis on telling a complete story. It can be tough to successfully create a story within the constraints they give you, but tough things are often worth it. That said, what's the opinion on writing non-stories? Not exactly what I'd consider poetry, but more like vignettes or style pieces. (For instance, being a historian, a while ago I wrote fictitious historical documents for a fantasy culture.) They can be part of a larger story, of course, but on their own, are they a useful practice for getting a hang of elements like style?
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Mar 28, 2014 07:39
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Djeser posted:That said, what's the opinion on writing non-stories? Not exactly what I'd consider poetry, but more like vignettes or style pieces. (For instance, being a historian, a while ago I wrote fictitious historical documents for a fantasy culture.) They can be part of a larger story, of course, but on their own, are they a useful practice for getting a hang of elements like style? I should say so, ESPECIALLY if they're supposed to present factual information (whether IRL or in-universe). I know I wasn't interested in history or physics until I read stuff by Anthony Beevor and Michio Kaku respectively, and I'd credit the way they used language to draw you into the writing alongside the way they presented information. And also because I'd like some tips on how to write the mundane- I saw the 'no sci-fi/fantasy' restrictions on the latest Thunderdome challenge, and my mind went blank  Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them.
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Mar 28, 2014 07:52
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CommissarMega posted:And also because I'd like some tips on how to write the mundane- I saw the 'no sci-fi/fantasy' restrictions on the latest Thunderdome challenge, and my mind went blank Have you been reading fiction that's not science fiction or fantasy? If not, there you go. You don't need to go strictly literary either.
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Mar 28, 2014 08:07
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CommissarMega posted:Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them.
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Mar 28, 2014 13:08
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CommissarMega posted:Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them. I think you might be approaching this in the wrong way. There's no such thing as "the mundane". There's just characters who do things, and it doesn't matter what setting or world they exist in. That's where I would suggest starting from: characters, and their motivations/goals/aims. Also there's less of a gap between science fiction/fantasy styles and "mundane" literature than you might think. I've been rereading Conrad's The Secret Agent lately and the third chapter is literally just the protagonist hanging out with his useless revolutionary buddies in a stuffy back room while they all talk past each other, but the way they're described and characterized with such a brilliant sense of the grotesque would put any fantasy lich or dark lord or gibbering goblin to shame.
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Mar 28, 2014 13:23
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If you're bad at writing a certain kind of story, it's great practice to DO IT. Some people in TD can only write one single genre or one style or one tone, and it's really lame. Don't be the writing equivalent of someone who only can draw anime-style characters from one angle and in one pose. You may find that you really enjoy writing a type of story that you wouldn't have expected, and you won't know until you try. Making an inherently interesting and relatable tension/conflict between two characters is a good way to make the story interesting. Djinn had some nice advice in her crits this week about the purpose of the first and second paragraphs that will be especially useful for writing non-genre. There should be a tension/dynamic/hook that the reader feels straight away, and Djinn's advice can help you do that. Just because you are writing in the "real world" doesn't mean you have to just have boring poo poo happening. People who can only write genre are usually mediocre at writing anyway, because they use fantasy or sci-fi as a crutch to give them interesting ideas. Think of a show like Breaking Bad. It's happening in the real world, but the premise and execution are just so good that it doesn't feel mundane at all.
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Mar 28, 2014 13:42
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CommissarMega, you talk of the "mundane" as if nothing happens there. I write a lot of fantasy, but the situations, conversations, and interpersonal conflicts of my fantasy characters can just as easily happen with my non-fantasy ones. That's because they all have relatable roots--peril, emotion, wanting things, being kept from getting those things, characters pushing each others' buttons, and so on. Shortcake the Halfling and Jane the Retail Worker can both fall in love, have their feelings hurt, and lose their house keys, after all.
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Mar 28, 2014 14:11
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CommissarMega posted:Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them. I have to politely ask that you expand on what you mean by "mundane." Like, do you mean "everyday life" or "really boring things." I'm thinking it's the former since you state that you're at a loss of how to write outside of sci-fi/fantasy.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:58
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I've also heard the term "mimetic fiction" used to describe fiction without speculative elements, specifically fiction set in the present day. The definition isn't locked down, though.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:10
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