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Drifter posted:I think I saw the first season of SAC, which was good fun, yeah. Who knows, maybe there will be another book or two released in the interim. LN's come out fast.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:22
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Serious Frolicking posted:Who knows, maybe there will be another book or two released in the interim. LN's come out fast. Right, but this is coming out in the fall of this year, reports have said. Can an arthouse draw that fast? I am not an animes expert but I don't think you can have parallel, near-synchronous series.
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Mar 28, 2014 06:13
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Drifter posted:Right, but this is coming out in the fall of this year, reports have said. Can an arthouse draw that fast? I am not an animes expert but I don't think you can have parallel, near-synchronous series. They create the episodes literally the week before they air.
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Mar 28, 2014 06:20
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At worst, they could do 1 cour instead of 2. I don't think there is any reason why they would delve into filler in this case.
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Mar 28, 2014 06:44
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pandaK posted:They create the episodes literally the week before they air. Are you kidding me? I know South Park does that, but I always thought that was just them having a pipeline that was automated and simple enough to manage that. That's pretty hardcore.
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Mar 28, 2014 07:03
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Drifter posted:Are you kidding me? I know South Park does that, but I always thought that was just them having a pipeline that was automated and simple enough to manage that. Ahahaha, it's not unheard of for animators to sleep under their desk for a few hours a night and spend all the rest of the time working. There have been times where an episode of something is done within minutes of airing.
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Mar 28, 2014 07:46
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Drifter posted:Are you kidding me? I know South Park does that, but I always thought that was just them having a pipeline that was automated and simple enough to manage that. It's pretty much routine for anime to finish producing episodes just before they air.
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Mar 28, 2014 07:58
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Everything I learn about the Japanese animation industry makes it sound like the most hosed up insane industry in the world. It's a miracle it's still running like it is and hasn't started to implode like the Japanese games industry.
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Mar 28, 2014 08:21
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XboxPants posted:Everything I learn about the Japan Better.
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Mar 28, 2014 09:38
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I remember hearing that a bunch of animators and directors found out that the Lupin III: Fujiko Mine was being worked on 3 weeks in advance and they were extremely perplexed by the notion of not procrastinating to the week of.
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Mar 28, 2014 13:42
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ViggyNash posted:I remember hearing that a bunch of animators and directors found out that the Lupin III: Fujiko Mine was being worked on 3 weeks in advance and they were extremely perplexed by the notion of not procrastinating to the week of. Perpetual college students.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:52
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It's not like they're procrastinating, they're just working on another series right up until the new series starts. Even if they did finish weeks ahead of time the producers would just wonder why they aren't airing it earlier and probably assign them more work because clearly this job is too easy for them. "If it's done, why aren't we airing it?" is the logic here.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:07
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ViggyNash posted:Sword Art Online isn't bad, and most of it is a lot of fun, but it definitely has issues, especially the second arc. Namely, an incest plot and some rape. Watch until the end of the first arc and pretend that's the whole show. I think that even before the clusterfuck that is the Alfheim Online arc, SAO has some giant, glaring problems - or, more specifically, one problem that's at the root of a whole host of issues. It's perhaps the most naked wish-fulfilment power-fantasy I've ever seen in a professionally-published work. Don't get me wrong here, Log Horizon is wish-fulfilment. It's about an awkward nerd getting transported into a fantasy-world where his 1337 gamer skills are sufficient to make him the reincarnation of Zhuge Liang and where he has no less than four beautiful women (well, three beautiful women and one middle-schooler... goddamnit, Japan) pining after him. However, the author and the anime production team are smart enough to downplay it a little, whereas the crew behind SAO weren't. At all. Rather than the relatively small, plebian harem that Shiroe has (a phrase that can only be found in anime, I know), Kirito shacks up fairly early on with the most beautiful girl in his world and then has almost every other female character he meets fall in love with him before tearfully realising that they cannot compete with the pure, perfect love between the two aforementioned characters. In Log Horizon, it's possible to be Shiroe's equal or superior in a given, plot-important field without it simply making you an obstacle for him to surpass - characters like Crusty and Soujiro get to do stuff, take charge, and be important as well (especially Crusty), and the story is OK with that. In SAO, this is not the case - just about everything boils down to Kirito's decisions in the end, to the point where it seriously undermines one of the biggest draws of the 'trapped-in-an-MMO' format - the 'massively multiplayer' bit. His companions rarely accomplish much other than offering him emotional support, and are frequently an active hindrance. By contrast, Shiroe is a strategist and debuffer - he needs folks like Akatsuki, Naotsugu, and Nyanta to break face, whilst folks like Crusty and Soujiro handle face-to-face politics, organising military campaigns, and so on. This co-operative approach naturally results in other characters getting more screentime and cool stuff to do, meaning that it's not just the Shiroe show all day, every day. So yeah, even early on, how well you can stand SAO very much depends on how well you can stand the narrative fellating the hero over what a cool, badass lone wolf he is. Personally, I found it a bit too irritating to sustain my interest.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:49
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that even before the clusterfuck that is the Alfheim Online arc, SAO has some giant, glaring problems - or, more specifically, one problem that's at the root of a whole host of issues. It's perhaps the most naked wish-fulfilment power-fantasy I've ever seen in a professionally-published work. If your power fantasies involve all your friends at the time dying because you hosed up, you need better power fantasies. Remember that Shiroe, at the end of the series, is still fully in control of the guild building, making him easily the most powerful man in the city. It is just as much of a power fantasy as SAO was, only that SAO was about a guy running around hitting things with swords while LH was about a guy pulling all the strings behind the scenes and building a society as he envisions it, with literally zero resistance from anyone who mattered. Kirito was beaten to within an inch of his life twice. LH does not have a single scene where Shiroe has to face the possibility that everything he worked for goes up in smoke, because he is just that clever. A power fantasy for grown-ups, if you will. It's even funnier when you realize that Kirito, at least in the SAO part, got exactly as many harem members as Shiroe did: Dead girl, Asuna, Smith Girl, Loli.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:17
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Really the biggest problem with SAO is that the main dude's adopted sister is in love with him for most of the second arc, but at least that doesn't actually go anywhere.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:44
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Namtab posted:Really the biggest problem with SAO is that the main dude's adopted sister is in love with him for most of the second arc, but at least that doesn't actually go anywhere. and after that arc it's completely dropped. No mentions whatsoever. Really the other friends of his stop their infatuation with him as well. I actually really like GGO's story and characters. Plus he loving uses a goddamn joke lightsaber weapon in a ranged gun based game. You have to appreciate that level of dedication to your gimmick
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Mar 28, 2014 21:47
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I spent two years of my life fighting with swords so gently caress guns.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:50
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that even before the clusterfuck that is the Alfheim Online arc, SAO has some giant, glaring problems - or, more specifically, one problem that's at the root of a whole host of issues. It's perhaps the most naked wish-fulfilment power-fantasy I've ever seen in a professionally-published work. Ok, I get the whole power-fantasy proxy character thing, but it doesn't make it a bad show for that alone. I liked enough about the SAO arc to give the harem stuff a pass since it's almost never played up. And it's not like they were fawning over him every single episode; it could have been far worse.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:32
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ViggyNash posted:Ok, I get the whole power-fantasy proxy character thing, but it doesn't make it a bad show for that alone. No, the fact that it's an ineptly written power-fantasy proxy thing makes it bad. Say what you will about Log Horizon, at least it has internal consistency and clearly articulated thematic beats.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:36
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ArchangeI posted:If your power fantasies involve all your friends at the time dying because you hosed up, you need better power fantasies. The whole thing about that episode, though, was that it was rubbed in that it wasn't really Kirito's fault and he needed to move on because he was being *so noble* and blaming himself far too much for his dumbass friends' decisions. I'm sorry, but if you're trying to show why a character riding the Mary Sue train as hard as Kirito isn't perfect, then you can't pull your punches like that. I think Bujold did it pretty good in the Vorkosigan novel series - she had her hitherto-almost-invincible main character, Miles, gently caress up, and it was a gigantic fuckup, it was completely his fault, it drew naturally from his character, and he had to bust his rear end to fix it (almost literally), but there were still major, lasting consequences that he couldn't just magic away. That's how you burst someone's bubble.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:39
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I think the worst part of SAO is that at the end the whole motivation for setting up the scenario was "oops I forgot lol".
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Mar 28, 2014 23:51
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Kirito did have "flaws", but they were the sort of fake flaws that don't really affect him in any meaningful way. He's a loner and has no friends! (And is beloved by literally everyone except jackasses) I was really not surprised to hear that SAO was initially written when the author was like, 15. Darth Walrus posted:The whole thing about that episode, though, was that it was rubbed in that it wasn't really Kirito's fault and he needed to move on because he was being *so noble* and blaming himself far too much for his dumbass friends' decisions. I'm sorry, but if you're trying to show why a character riding the Mary Sue train as hard as Kirito isn't perfect, then you can't pull your punches like that. I think Bujold did it pretty good in the Vorkosigan novel series - she had her hitherto-almost-invincible main character, Miles, gently caress up, and it was a gigantic fuckup, it was completely his fault, it drew naturally from his character, and he had to bust his rear end to fix it (almost literally), but there were still major, lasting consequences that he couldn't just magic away. That's how you burst someone's bubble. I think the main goal of that stuff wasn't to make Kirito grow as a character, but to provide an excuse for angst. I did find some of those deaths to be unintentionally hilarious as hell in how melodramatic they were though, so that's something. Srice fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 00:05
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I have no idea what you guys are talking about, specifically. One of the things I dislike about stories is the perfect character GMary Stue stuff. So even though Shiroe is an example of that, the other characters took up enough screentime that he was actually more of a background manipulator so it didn't grate pretty much at all. It was a show about relationships, rather than a show about whose sword is more powerful. I didn't think Shiroe in Log Horizon was as overpowered as, say, Light (or the main character) from Death Note or something (although I loved Death Note). Redcrimson posted:No, the fact that it's an ineptly written power-fantasy proxy thing makes it bad. Say what you will about Log Horizon, at least it has internal consistency and clearly articulated thematic beats. How is Accel World? Waste of time, mildly interesting, or wow that's an amazing show?
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Mar 29, 2014 01:02
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I'd put Accel World somewhere between good and mildly interesting.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:05
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Drifter posted:I have no idea what you guys are talking about, specifically. One of the things I dislike about stories is the perfect character GMary Stue stuff. So even though Shiroe is an example of that, the other characters took up enough screentime that he was actually more of a background manipulator so it didn't grate pretty much at all. It was a show about relationships, rather than a show about whose sword is more powerful. Watch the first half and then ignore the second half.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:06
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Blhue posted:I'd put Accel World somewhere between good and mildly interesting. This was my take on it. It kept my attention enough to want to watch all of it.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:12
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Drifter posted:Are you kidding me? I know South Park does that, but I always thought that was just them having a pipeline that was automated and simple enough to manage that. The final episode of Kill la Kill was finished ~16 hours before it aired on TV. The final episode of Gundam BF was finished yesterday, and it airs in 2 days, which is a pretty good schedule. One episode of Attack on Titan aired unfinished on TV in a couple prefectures because they didn't finish it before the deadline for those stations. You can learn a lot of (depressing) things about the anime industry by following key staff members and animators on Twitter.
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Mar 29, 2014 04:17
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aers posted:The final episode of Kill la Kill was finished ~16 hours before it aired on TV. The final episode of Gundam BF was finished yesterday, and it airs in 2 days, which is a pretty good schedule.  How is it literally even possible to operate like this? Are people taking pictures of their unfinished cells for the broadcast station to splice in real time?
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Mar 29, 2014 04:23
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Neeksy posted:I think the worst part of SAO is that at the end the whole motivation for setting up the scenario was "oops I forgot lol". I think this is a mischaracterization of perhaps the only interesting character in the series. You can't just take that line at face value and ignore everything else he says.
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Mar 29, 2014 04:36
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Drifter posted:How is Accel World? Waste of time, mildly interesting, or wow that's an amazing show? Accel World was a huge improvement over SAO in terms of character-writing and thematic articulation, but it's still not anything more than a trifling distraction.
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Mar 29, 2014 07:20
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Drifter posted:I have no idea what you guys are talking about, specifically. One of the things I dislike about stories is the perfect character GMary Stue stuff. So even though Shiroe is an example of that, the other characters took up enough screentime that he was actually more of a background manipulator so it didn't grate pretty much at all. It was a show about relationships, rather than a show about whose sword is more powerful. Right, yeah, I think there is some of what we discussed in Log Horizon (OK, quite a bit), but the ensemble nature of the story softens the blow considerably. It's less that everything goes Shiroe's way because he is awesome, and more that everything goes everyone's way because this is a happy, idealistic show populated by characters who are almost universally competent to some degree.
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Mar 29, 2014 09:52
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I'm sure that there will be some legitimate adversity eventually.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:18
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Emalde posted:
Its all finished digitally so they can send it over to the station day-of as long as the station is willing to accept it. The unfinished airing was basically stills in place of what should be animated cuts. See Wizard Barristers 11 for a drastic example.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:46
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Serious Frolicking posted:I'm sure that there will be some legitimate adversity eventually. The new Plant Hwydan (or whatever) guild seems pretty effed up and hardcore, and also that Silver Swords guild who left the original council meeting was shown to be meeting up with the bad guys in that 'slave' city. I think they'll have their share of adversity in the next season. Not to mention Some parts of the People of the Land seem to be trippin'. it ought to be really good. 
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Mar 29, 2014 17:18
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Drifter posted:The new Plant Hwydan (or whatever) guild seems pretty effed up and hardcore, and also that Silver Swords guild who left the original council meeting was shown to be meeting up with the bad guys in that 'slave' city. In the LNs, that "meet-up" is actually them going in to try and clean house as a sort of atonement for not helping the Round Table
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Mar 29, 2014 20:06
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Xelkelvos posted:In the LNs, that "meet-up" is actually them going in to try and clean house as a sort of atonement for not helping the Round Table That's kind of dull. It'd be more interesting politically to have one of Akihabara's most powerful fighting guilds team up with the "Bad Guys" in opposition to Round Table.
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Mar 29, 2014 20:10
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DrSunshine posted:That's kind of dull. It'd be more interesting politically to have one of Akihabara's most powerful fighting guilds team up with the "Bad Guys" in opposition to Round Table. I disagree. Having everyone who opposes the mc in any way rate somewhere on the hitler scale is pathetic and trite. Just because the silver sword guy didn't buy into Shiroe's plan for a council doesn't mean he is some petty monster who will dedicate his life toward taking Shiroe down.
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Mar 29, 2014 20:51
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Serious Frolicking posted:I disagree. Having everyone who opposes the mc in any way rate somewhere on the hitler scale is pathetic and trite. Just because the silver sword guy didn't buy into Shiroe's plan for a council doesn't mean he is some petty monster who will dedicate his life toward taking Shiroe down. Wait, there are people on MMOs that don't react like petty monsters to perceived slights?
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Mar 29, 2014 21:00
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DrSunshine posted:That's kind of dull. It'd be more interesting politically to have one of Akihabara's most powerful fighting guilds team up with the "Bad Guys" in opposition to Round Table. Remember the Silver Sword left the council because they thought the effort was a noble but hopeless cause, and would prefer to deal with 'reality' so as to speak. Then it turns out it's not only a pipe dream, they made a big difference and the Silver Sword didn't help. So they headed out to find a shithole to reform.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:00
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So they would run that city if they can capture it? That'd be pretty cool.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:33
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