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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:At least your dad won't be on the hook for the bill even though he's the policy holder. The surgeon can only bill the person who signs the financial agreement (assuming the patient is an adult). I've had multiple patients at the doctor's office where I do the billing be like, "Oh, please send the statement to my mom, she pays all my bills" or "my ex-wife is supposed to cover all the medical bills for our son so I need you to send her the bill". I don't care who is ~supposed~ to pay this bill, you signed the paperwork and legally accepted the debt. Feel free to tell the collections agency to call your mom, though. Oh I know, this bill was apparently a "just to inform you" sort of thing. He's not on the hook and he knows it. The fact that my brother's in this situation at all bothers me, though, even though we haven't actually spoken beyond a rare text in years.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:31
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zaurg posted:Why are all these people horrible with money? Schooling failed them? Parents failed them? They're hopeless regardless of the education? Where my updates at?
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Mar 29, 2014 17:38
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Veskit posted:Where my updates at?
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Mar 29, 2014 20:00
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I have a friend who's not in much debt but is probably heading that way with the habits he has. This morning while we were getting breakfast, he told me he'd spent $1300 in the last week. Apparently he got his school refund (aka refunded tuition dollars for classes he dropped last term) and just went nuts: new keyboard and mouse, a hiking backpack, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember. He also spent all of his financial aid on random poo poo (~$3000). Now he literally doesn't have any money for food besides $40 he gets from his mom every month. Thankfully he paid his rent up front (the school automatically deducts it from his account) This isn't a new thing for him. Last term he bought a $1200 gaming PC using financial aid and some Christmas money. The term before: a gently caress-ton of magic cards. The term before that: a series of bongs, each of which cost several hundred dollars (he had to buy more because he kept breaking them on accident). He also eats out/goes out to bars constantly, as well as smoking a ridiculous amount of weed. Honestly, It's pretty entertaining how bad he is with money and managing his life in general. Whenever I bring it up with him he just laughs it off. He recognizes it's a problem but lacks the willpower to do anything about it.
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Mar 30, 2014 05:17
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Chomskyan posted:He also spent all of his financial aid on random poo poo (~$3000). Now he literally doesn't have any money for food besides $40 he gets from his mom every month. Thankfully he paid his rent up front (the school automatically deducts it from his account) This is why I do not automatically feel bad for people with crippling student loans. Hope he's not pursuing a BA.
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Mar 30, 2014 19:24
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antiga posted:This is why I do not automatically feel bad for people with crippling student loans. Hope he's not pursuing a BA. Yeah I spent the vast majority of my 18k worth of student loans on travel and poo poo I didn't need (plus like 20k/year from working). I meet lots of students who are legitimately frugal and work 30 hours a week during the semester to stay debt free, though.
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Mar 30, 2014 20:19
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Chomskyan posted:I have a friend who's not in much debt but is probably heading that way with the habits he has. This morning while we were getting breakfast, he told me he'd spent $1300 in the last week. Apparently he got his school refund (aka refunded tuition dollars for classes he dropped last term) and just went nuts: new keyboard and mouse, a hiking backpack, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember. He also spent all of his financial aid on random poo poo (~$3000). Now he literally doesn't have any money for food besides $40 he gets from his mom every month. Thankfully he paid his rent up front (the school automatically deducts it from his account) This is my best friend and now-roommate/tenant, only about 5-6 years later. Let me tell you, if nothing changes, it doesn't look good. He took out the maximum student loan, despite living at home; well over double what he needed for tuition, books and a bus pass. Blew it all on weed and electronics. He bought his WoW-girlfriend a Nintendo DS ($150+ I think) and shipped it to her. Also maxed out a credit card or two. He spent most of his post-graduation years unemployed, not paying down his debts and obviously has no savings. Fortunately he's been temping at the same job for over a year now, but recently had a brief lapse in his contract and literally ran out of money. Couldn't pay me rent, and when he did get extended I needed to lend him money for a bus pass. However, this may all have a relatively happy ending because he just interviewed for permanent status with his job. But if he doesn't get it he'll be unemployed again, and he's 3-4 weeks from finding that out with absolutely no plans on applying for another job just in case. He has a good chance at getting the job because he's been doing it for a year, but there are two other candidates and it's a government job, so a totally objective hiring process. If either of the two candidates scored higher in the interview than him, then his current bosses will be jeopardising their careers to hire him. Not to mention the HR consultant present in the interview pretty much precludes this from happening. Thankfully we are opposites financially and I don't need to rely on him to make my mortgage payments, but it's frustrating to see a friend teetering on the edge of disaster and doing nothing to clear another path in the road should a moose jump out in front of him right next to a "Moose Crossing" sign. Rick Rickshaw fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 20:31
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Why do people spend student loans on something other than tuition, books, and basic living expenses? Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that...
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Mar 30, 2014 21:01
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corkskroo posted:Why do people spend student loans on something other than tuition, books, and basic living expenses? Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that... Kids coming out of high school who haven't been taught basic financial skills because "it's not the school's job to teach them that" not knowing how to manage a sudden ability to take on debt? Color me shocked.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:03
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drat. I'm sure any effort to put some parameters around that would be shot right down by the credit lobby.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:04
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Parameters could also be potentially detrimental to the student. I think the new laws around private student loans and financial need are a step in the right direction: You can't take out unlimited student loans, the private loan provider needs verification from your institution that the money is within their calculation of "tuition+books+living expenses." The problem is that the median living expenses calculated are phenomenal. I went to UC San Diego and lived in a nice apartment I could throw a rock from and hit campus and had about $20k per year of extra loans offered to me on top of just paying my rent and eating. Not to mention I got food stamps through the whole thing and worked as well. HOWEVER, if some of those loans hadn't been available to me, I would have starved over the summer between terms because unlike many college students I was entirely self supporting and didn't have a family home to spend the summer in. Most people are just idiots though. I did chuckle a little while I was applying to graduate school about some of the price tags though. USC was offering a Masters of Social Work for $80k in loans, NOT including living expenses   I'm sure that will just pay for itself.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:15
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Trilineatus posted:Parameters could also be potentially detrimental to the student. I think the new laws around private student loans and financial need are a step in the right direction: You can't take out unlimited student loans, the private loan provider needs verification from your institution that the money is within their calculation of "tuition+books+living expenses." I think I'll be able to get away without having to take any private loans out, but I'm definitely going to be bumping the limit of undergrad federal loans by the time I'm done thanks to the cost of living here (hello, fellow Triton!) and the fact I don't have a family to go back to over the summer. Part-time work during school doesn't cut it when the cheapest rooms for rent cost $600+ a month, and I would really rather focus on maintaining a high GPA and keeping myself available for research opportunities or other degree-related activities on campus than work at some cafeteria making a dollar over minimum wage. To get back on topic: people bad with money - myself pre-bankruptcy (2011). Made decent money without a degree, but spent it on renting a ridiculously expensive house, having roommates who didn't pay their portion of the rent/utilities forcing me to cover the deficit, and buying an expensive-to-insure car at 15% APR that was eventually repossessed by having it towed away by the police, since I was driving on a revoked license because of tickets I didn't pay off before (yes, I was an idiot). Being laid off didn't help, and all told I had about $25k in debt with no income whatsoever when I filed. Hopefully by the time I graduate, my bankruptcy will be far enough behind me that I'll be able to rebuild.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:42
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corkskroo posted:Why do people spend student loans on something other than tuition, books, and basic living expenses? Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that... Well the bank isn't taking an interest in it like they would for a car/home loan for one.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:51
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Rudager posted:Well the bank isn't taking an interest in it like they would for a car/home loan for one. Right I guess that's part of the problem although others seem to think the flexibility is good. Must be some middle ground. Or better financial education of course. That would help in so many things.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:53
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My coworker who complains about not being able to afford food or being able to fix her car(about a grand in repairs) just bought a ferret, a husky mix, and a 55in smart TV with her and her boyfriend's tax return.
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Mar 30, 2014 21:54
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Inudeku posted:My coworker who complains about not being able to afford food or being able to fix her car(about a grand in repairs) just bought a ferret, a husky mix, and a 55in smart TV with her and her boyfriend's tax return. But tax returns are free money! Gotta spend it before it runs out!
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Mar 30, 2014 23:02
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Oxxidation posted:I'm almost positive my mother had something to do with it. Lying to him about the cost, pushing him to do it to spite my dad, something. She's a mentally ill (probably borderline personality disorder) alcoholic living in a house her dead ex-boss bought (and just about every stick of furniture in there that wasn't taken from her last home was bought on credit, so hey, bad with money). Maybe she thinks that by landing him in debt she can keep him from leaving, I don't loving know. My parents are both characters and odd in their own ways, but they're both good people through and through. The fact that people had to go through life with parents like this makes me feel both lucky and exceptionally sad. Jesus.
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Mar 30, 2014 23:30
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corkskroo posted:Why do people spend student loans on something other than tuition, books, and basic living expenses? Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that... I took out maxed student loans when I was in Uni for about 18 months. Hey man, free money! Lucky for me I dropped out after that and all funding was stopped so I will have it payed back in a few months of very small installments.
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Mar 31, 2014 10:12
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zaurg posted:Why are all these people horrible with money? Schooling failed them? Parents failed them? They're hopeless regardless of the education? Zaurg, you know what you must do 
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Mar 31, 2014 11:26
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corkskroo posted:Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that... Yes. Yes they do. I knew a guy that got approved for a car loan and I don't know how he did it but he somehow got extra on top of the loan, so he used that to purchase a bed / bedroom set. Also the car he bought was a lovely Pontiac Sunfire that had a bad battery that he set on fire because he doesn't know how to use booster cables.
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Mar 31, 2014 14:22
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corkskroo posted:Why do people spend student loans on something other than tuition, books, and basic living expenses? Do people spend mortgages on something other than a house or car loans on something other than a car? ... Don't answer that... Yeah, it's pretty common to take out, say, a 250k mortgage on a 200k house and use the 50k balance to consolidate consumer debt at a lower rate. People might say that it's a home improvement LoC, though.
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Mar 31, 2014 14:35
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tuyop posted:Yeah, it's pretty common to take out, say, a 250k mortgage on a 200k house and use the 50k balance to consolidate consumer debt at a lower rate. People might say that it's a home improvement LoC, though. I think here in Canada the banks won't let you do that because they require verification that work was done on the house that validates the extra $50k on the mortgage. They won't release the money to you until you provide receipts and they may even come to inspect the house. That's what I was told by several people when I was considering getting money added to my mortgage for renovations until I realised it's probably a bad idea financially.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:36
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I'm not sure on that, but in Ontario at least, I know someone that got enough on their mortgage refinance to buy a newer car (which is another bad decision) because the interest rate was lower than what they could get at a dealership.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:28
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I'm going through the process now. The broker told us they don't do that anymore. Any work you want to do on the house has to be financed separately.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:37
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Inudeku posted:My coworker who complains about not being able to afford food or being able to fix her car(about a grand in repairs) just bought a ferret, a husky mix, and a 55in smart TV with her and her boyfriend's tax return. To add to this: she came to work today and told me her bank card got denied when buying coffee. Turns out time Warner charged her a little earlier than expected and now she over drafted.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:48
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We've talked often in this thread about MLM/Pyramid schemes. Here's a decent blog post about why they are garbage. http://www.fairgroundmedia.com/the-truth-about-mary-kay It even goes into forums-approved other legit online moneymaking (blogs for bucks, dropshipping, handmade art) Read the comments for bamboozled people shamelessly and desperately defending their "business"
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Mar 31, 2014 23:27
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canyoneer posted:We've talked often in this thread about MLM/Pyramid schemes. Here's a decent blog post about why they are garbage. Along this same line, just last night my girlfriend got suckered into a presentation for this particular MLM company...luckily she was thinking it was sketchy, and I struck down any doubts she had that it was. http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Delivered/ACN/ACN%20MLM.htm I love these loving quotes from the comments: quote:We all know working for a company for 10 - 40 years will never provide you with the type of time and lifestyle that we all want and because someone other than you is in control you are just along for the ride. Just ask the 20,000 or so people who use to work at Sprint. ACN has been around 12 years-if they were doing something so terribly wrong how could they operate that long without some entity shutting them down? You are the dream stealer!! Sure people get involved on emotion, sure some quit, some people decide to quit living, but that is a personal decision. Network Marketing is about the only thing out there for the little guy. quote:And can you actually make money without building a team? well, sure, some. But no one ever said you'd get rich like that. We have the J Paul Ghetty philosophy (not sure if I spelled his name correctly). We'd rather get paid on 1% of 100 people's efforts then 100% of our own. Build a team. That is the point. I also believe you mentioned how horrible that it is we get paid by having people on our team and anything like that is a scam. Are you crazy? Look at the average persons job. CEO, board of directors, upper management, middle management, lower management and then all the little worker bees. That is a pyramid scam if you want to call anything one. How quick can you get to the top of that pyramid? ACN gives everyday people a CHANCE. For some, it's the first real chance in their life. How dare you try to steal that from someone just because you don't like MLM. ACN has completely changed my life. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE COMPANY :O) I LOVE ACN!!!!!!!! quote:It's obvious that you dislike MLM's, and that's cool. I just hope you know of a better way to get Wealthy. Because if you don't, Then what's the point of trying to bring down opportunities that "at least" teach people HOW to become wealthy. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 14:42
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MLM defenders are amazing. "Do you know a better way to get rich?" Seriously. I think I posted about this friend-of-a-friend who took out an RRSP loan from Primerica to pay off her cc debt with the tax returns (70k total income with two infants, leased car, 20k of credit card debt. Yeah, you're totally getting 20k back in taxes.) She had a room in their apartment dedicated to her Mary Kay business, and she'd spend 20+ hours a week, while on maternity leave, hanging out in malls and handing out business cards. Minimum wage is $10/Hr, Mary Kay kicks 50% back to the consultant, so she'd need to sell something like $500 a week for it to be worth it. It was sad, really. Even sadder is that I've had a bit of a falling out with that friend since, so I can't exactly go and ask how so-and-so's brilliant financial plan went.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:56
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MLM is really sad. I know some very smart people who are involved and it kills me a little every time the topic of work comes up, but I really can't say anything to them. For anyone who hasn't already seen/heard, there is a great podcast on Skeptoid about MLM ( http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4176 ) and a pretty good (NSFW) episode of Bullshit titled Easy Money which is available on YouTube. Edit: on average, playing roulette is a better way to make money than MLM. Just think about that! antiga fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 15:00
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I have a few guys in MLMs on my Facebook and they all talk about how running their business is amazing and how they're retiring at 30. Not to mention how hilarious their selfies are when they all have cans of energy drinks right next to them no matter where the gently caress they are. Also, they have their jobs on Facebook as "network marketer '.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:08
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I suspect I'm going to regret posting this, but my fiancee has recently become involved with Mary Kay. I'll try to steel myself against the incoming surge of hatred. She has a full time job, and we're financially extremely stable. We're both fully aware of how the company operates, and she's deadset against their recruiting strategy, she has no interest in recruiting, much to her 'director's chagrin. It's only to make a couple bucks extra here and there without having to have a structured second job situation. She does go to their meetings every so often, and takes it all with a truckload of salt. Their pushers are so over the top that it's hard not to make fun of them. From the outward appearance, if you aren't going insane marketing (canvassing malls, wasting tons of gas), it's not unreasonable to pick up a few bucks here and there with relatively little effort selling to friends and family. My point is, that if you're simply selling a $40 skin whatever-the-gently caress that you bought from MK for $20 to someone with no real effort beyond taking the order, I don't see a huge problem in it. It's the concept that they try to sell to desperate people of 'self-empowerment' like it's some magical amazing opportunity seems to be the real problem.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:28
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edit: My brain is broken today I think.
VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 15:36
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Dragyn posted:From the outward appearance, if you aren't going insane marketing (canvassing malls, wasting tons of gas), it's not unreasonable to pick up a few bucks here and there with relatively little effort selling to friends and family. The problem here is that there is a thin line between selling something that friends and family want and becoming that friend/family member who is disliked and avoided as they are always trying to guilt you into buying stuff that you don't want. Fair play to you if you think you can manage it.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:38
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As long as it's all she's doing, not harassing everyone around her and not keeping inventory, she's doing MLM right - a discount on poo poo she'd be buying anyway, and a couple extra bucks. Personally I don't understand why the customer isn't ordering directly from the company, or another retailer. It's not like make-up is hard to find nowadays; it's like every drugstore devote 20% of their shelf space to the stuff. 
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Apr 1, 2014 15:38
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VideoTapir posted:It was never $40. Yeah I haven't looked at the real pricing, but a 50% markup that people will actually buy is significant. I'm continually amazed that people not only buy it, but approach her to purchase it. spog posted:The problem here is that there is a thin line between selling something that friends and family want and becoming that friend/family member who is disliked and avoided as they are always trying to guilt you into buying stuff that you don't want. I keep reminding her not to become that person, it's probably my most grave concern, since we're not really at any risk of real financial ruin from it. FrozenVent posted:As long as it's all she's doing, not harassing everyone around her and not keeping inventory, she's doing MLM right - a discount on poo poo she'd be buying anyway, and a couple extra bucks. She does keep a small inventory (not what the company recommends) of the most popular items, but anything that remains unsold can be returned to MK for 90% of the original purchase price, so the risk is limited. People order it through her because they're predominantly people who don't do online shopping (of a certain generation or predisposition). Anyone who is a decent consumer would never buy any of this. Maybe it's a bit predatory, but if they're gonna go blow this kind of money on cosmetics anyway, they might as well help pay for our wedding or drinking habits.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:59
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My mother did the tupperware thing when I was a kid, and it was pretty clear she only did it for the social aspect and the free poo poo she got if poeple bought stuff. There was never any "GET RICH" vibe involved at all, it was more like this was the only place you could buy this poo poo, so come on over and see the new items. I think the internet killed this type of model.
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Apr 1, 2014 16:00
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Dragyn posted:People order it through her because they're predominantly people who don't do online shopping (of a certain generation or predisposition). That's what I call a sustainable business model.
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Apr 1, 2014 16:01
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spog posted:The problem here is that there is a thin line between selling something that friends and family want and becoming that friend/family member who is disliked and avoided as they are always trying to guilt you into buying stuff that you don't want. Yeah, be careful with the friends and family bit. My girlfriend gets calls from f&f about Lia Sophia jewelry orders and super special pricing late at night around the end of the month, which I doubt is coincidence.
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Apr 1, 2014 16:02
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FrozenVent posted:That's what I call a sustainable business model. Definitely not for MK as a whole, I imagine they're current model has an expiration date, but as long we've still got baby boomers and the not-internet-inclined, there's a business there. There's absolutely no illusion that we'll be MK millionaires and both driving pink cars. Also, the pink cars are leases that the company pays for, until you're no longer a top seller or whatever. Then they drop the lease on you. Either way you get to pay the taxes on it. What a bargain.
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Apr 1, 2014 16:13
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Dragyn posted:Definitely not for MK as a whole, I imagine they're current model has an expiration date, but as long we've still got baby boomers and the not-internet-inclined, there's a business there. Someone on my wife's side of the family is heavy into the MK kool-aid. She sold around 20K worth of product last year, so best case she grossed 10K in profit. I'd be surprised if she netted 6K last year She's constantly hustling facebook and anyone she meets for a 'free facial'. If she would put 1/4 of the energy she puts into MK into anything else she would make so much more money. I would love to find out her net MK income and how many hours she put into it and compare it to minimum wage I always thought the Mary Kay cars were part of a bonus structure. You can get the car and as long as you meet sales quotas MK makes the lease payment for you...OR you can get a cash bonus of whatever the lease payment is. So it's not a FREE car, it's a car payment or cash bonus.
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