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Strength of Many is a poo poo-stirring jabroni, yes, but putting links for two sites chock-full of pedophiles on his redtext was uncalled for.
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Mar 31, 2014 01:58
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There wasn't an apology. There was a "We'll apologize later because apologizing now will just seem cheap." And then later never came. And even Holden's half-assed apology was later retracted. So while there's no reason to rehash that conversation again, I gotta say that people noticed. e: I honestly don't give a poo poo about official apologies. Just publish a book without a bunch of creepy smut in it and we'll call it even.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:03
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So if you had to go a full year back to find something to poo poo on, then laboriously read that as Dog loving rather then some kind of 'I am master of all beasts' or something, what does that mean for the recent time with regards to the writers loving up?
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Mar 31, 2014 02:15
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Plutonis posted:Strength of Many is a poo poo-stirring jabroni, yes, but putting links for two sites chock-full of pedophiles on his redtext was uncalled for. Yeah..could that be changed? I'm at work and thought the links were to posts he made or something, not god drat actual pedophile art.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:35
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mistaya posted:There wasn't an apology. There was a "We'll apologize later because apologizing now will just seem cheap." And then later never came. And even Holden's half-assed apology was later retracted. Holden's half assed apologies were basically on the level of "I'm sorry you were offended" as I recall?
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Mar 31, 2014 03:00
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mistaya posted:e: I honestly don't give a poo poo about official apologies. Just publish a book without a bunch of creepy smut in it and we'll call it even. Darkly seductive smut.  But, yeah. they've already managed to screw themselves in terms of making apologies. Here's hoping they actually put out a product worth investing in. For their backers' sakes.
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Mar 31, 2014 03:01
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Vadoc posted:Yeah..could that be changed? I'm at work and thought the links were to posts he made or something, not god drat actual pedophile art. Hosted on somethingawful no less.
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Mar 31, 2014 03:34
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homerlaw posted:Hosted on somethingawful no less. You should ask QCS to remove those, friend.
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Mar 31, 2014 03:36
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Take the meta-commentary and posting about posting to QCS, yes. Report things you find offensive or bothersome. I am pretty sure Strength of Many is in fact just trolling, and the first thing him thinking of on reading those charms is animal loving is a little odd, but the Exalted thread, as bad as it is, is probably not the place for it.Captain Oblivious posted:Holden's half assed apologies were basically on the level of "I'm sorry you were offended" as I recall? I don't think it was even that, he was mostly sorry people were interrupting his shilling and yelling at him as I recall.
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Mar 31, 2014 03:46
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Here's the official apology. I, uh, haven't heard anyone express satisfaction about it. As I recall it was roundly mocked. But it does exist, lest people say it doesn't! (Very much just want to release a book demonstrating we're not all completely insensitive assholes at this point.)
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Mar 31, 2014 17:06
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We're extremely sorry that the intent of the Charms was not clear
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Mar 31, 2014 17:12
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Oh goddamnit every time I'm excited about this thread having a double digit unread count it's just people demanding various stripes of apologies again. They're like the ice age layers you can see in the rock wall on the plus side of the K-T line that demarcates when the rape ghosts thing happened. Granted I'm always just hoping for more details on the new exalt types or how they've been quietly dropped in favor of more Alchemicals, so I'm probably not the best judge of space usage. theironjef fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 17:20
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Yeah, I'm with Ferrinus here. Not really an apology, more a "vestra culpa, suckers." But, I guess it exists, despite its lack of sincerity or understanding. And sorry, thironjef. I wouldn't say I'm 'demanding' anything, but I can see how it would seem that way. As for them showing any hints of content though, I doubt that's going to happen until they need to squeeze the fans for more money.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:45
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theironjef posted:Oh goddamnit every time I'm excited about this thread having a double digit unread count it's just people demanding various stripes of apologies again. They're like the ice age layers you can see in the rock wall on the plus side of the K-T line that demarcates when the rape ghosts thing happened. If it helps I don't think anyone is actually demanding anything anymore, this is more jaded mockery than anything else.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:28
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Regarding the War Charms, is 3E actually going to fulfill my desire to play as Dynasty Warrior's Zhuge Liang/Sima Yi, aka genius strategists who can also take an army on by themselves?
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Mar 31, 2014 22:50
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Plutonis posted:Regarding the War Charms, is 3E actually going to fulfill my desire to play as Dynasty Warrior's Zhuge Liang/Sima Yi, aka genius strategists who can also take an army on by themselves? If nothing else, the way they've described weapons working, it should be trivial to beat the poo poo out of people with a fan made of feathers, since it'll probably just be 'light weapon' with some appropriate tags on it. (Sadly I have no idea on War charms, but after reading a lot of Outlaws on the Water Margin and, well, yeah, playing Dynasty Warriors/Warriors Orochi I feel like a lot of it should just straight up be "I use magic to reshape the battlefield to our advantage. "I foresaw this sudden downpour flooding the valley which is why I had the troops withdraw" "Suddenly the enemy camp is on fire", etc.)
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Mar 31, 2014 23:27
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Even 2E could give you a genius strategist who could fight an army by themselves. In fact, you needed a high War score to be able to fight an army! I've got no doubts about 3E there. I AM really curious as to if and how 3E will reward you for having multiple seemigly-similar fighting styles, though. Like, will it really be worth having Brawl as well as Melee, or Thrown as well as Archery? An entire caste strongly implies so... This is something the team itself has acknowledged as a goal though, so it's not a question of if they'll try but of whether and how they'll succeed.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:57
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Ferrinus posted:Even 2E could give you a genius strategist who could fight an army by themselves. In fact, you needed a high War score to be able to fight an army! I've got no doubts about 3E there. Honestly, I'd prefer it if it went entirely unrewarded. The "Dawn Hydra" that was introduced with the Dawn Solution was an absolute piece of poo poo and if you can make the most kickass Dawn possible by taking one fightman ability to max and War, I'll be a happy man. With tiered advancement levels and feat- excuse me, *Charm* trees, it's utterly unrewarding to pick up a second fighting skill in 2.5 unless you've got absolute tons of XP to burn for your Essence level.
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Apr 1, 2014 01:33
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My first thought on seeing this wasn't 'Artifacts that actually have stuff that matters, cool', it was 'Jesus Christ, characters must have a bajillion Charms now to want to even think about spending ten of them on an Artifact'.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:49
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Yeah, I'm wondering how they are going to entice you to spend XP on Evocations over charms. Because there are a lot of charms to buy.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:04
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Oh hell yeah that looks really cool. Dividing them into the same tiers Sorcery uses is a really good idea and makes it straightforwardly clear how and why Solars are the best evokers. Since there's going to be a separate pool of XP for use on martial arts, evocations, and sorcery, I'm not worried about having to choose between leveling my daiklave and leveling my guy.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:07
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NIV3K posted:Yeah, I'm wondering how they are going to entice you to spend XP on Evocations over charms. Because there are a lot of charms to buy. this is what you use your Special XP on, so it comes out of a complete different pool then your Charms and Other Stuff XP. You can probably still use Charms and Other Stuff XP on it, too.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:15
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In general, evocations seem like the perfect addition to a Solars game in specific and Exalted in general because it creates another subclass of dabbling in/mastering some sort of esoteric and external power source. It means that what would've been a "vanilla" character in 1e or 2e has their own thing in the world to pursue and practice, whereas before the only thing actually limiting their personal growth was XP totals and training times. Here's what I hope, although it's also what I doubt: Martial Arts should, themselves, have Emerald/Sapphire/Adamant tiers, and allow you to advance to the next tier without totally filling out the last. It'd mean a Solar's rewarded for investing in the martial arts in the same way they're rewarded for investing in evocations and sorcery, but still allow a Solar and a Dragon-Blood to evidently be practicing the same style. Otherwise you end up with a situation in which a Solar is either stupid for using martial arts or a Dragon-Blood is stupid for eschewing them. ("Sidereal" martial arts would be a totally separate category) Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 21:25
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Oh, I see how this works... Can I just say that I vastly prefer having sword skills be on the sword like this rather than last edition: "300 types of martial arts some tiny number of which can be used with swords" clusterfuck? Flaming Sword tree looks neat, I like how it's focusing more on an earth and fire mix instead of just fire. Some of the names are a bit goofy but I'm sure they're working titles. My interest is officially piqued. PS: Yay for sensible formatting! KS backer update posted:(We've decided to put the XP table and rules at the end of Traits this time, rather than hiding it in the Storytelling chapter.)
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Apr 8, 2014 21:37
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Jesus Christ that's way too many loving charms
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Apr 8, 2014 21:38
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Jesus Christ that's way too many loving charms you're not expected to buy all of them. You're not even expected to buy every charm in the abilities you really really want to be good at. You can, but you don't have to.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:42
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Don't give a poo poo, that's still too many charms. The charm bloat is going to be insane.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:46
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Jesus Christ that's way too many loving charms If they all feel individually worth buying then it's all good It'll suck if there's a lot of perfunctory filler charms, but there might not be! I'm confident that the Ex3 team at least wants to avoid that. We'll see how successful they are in practice.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:48
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My guess is that there are going to be a lot of different ways to get roughly equivalent mechanical effects, so you're not actually supposed to buy all the charms possible. If, for instance, the most important stats are +Critrate, +Accuracy, and +Damage, it's probably up to you whether to buy a +Crit/+Acc charm on your daiklave and a +Damage charm in your native tree, or a +Acc charm on your daiklave and a separate +Crit/+Dam charm in your tree, or etc. There'll probably be a lot of fiddly differences such that all charms aren't trivially reducible to each other and such that someone who relies on their daiklave looks a little different from someone who relies on their native charms or w/e.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:03
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Yeah, basically I just don't want to have to buy the same charm over and over again. Any rules (like the tiering system put forward here) that let me avoid that are great.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:08
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Attorney at Funk posted:Yeah, basically I just don't want to have to buy the same charm over and over again. Any rules (like the tiering system put forward here) that let me avoid that are great. Individual charms are worth buying, I wouldn't say there are any specifically that are like 'eh I don't want to buy that.', and one of the major fun parts of the system so far to me is just how varied characters even using the same abilities can be.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:11
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One thing I think I really like about this is it makes the Magical Materials actually magical instead of just giving them static stat increases if you happen to use the right one for your splat. I would really like it if the bonus for using the 'correct' material was done away with completely, and you could choose your weapon based on the evocations you wanted to go for instead.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:13
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Stallion Cabana posted:Individual charms are worth buying, I wouldn't say there are any specifically that are like 'eh I don't want to buy that.', and one of the major fun parts of the system so far to me is just how varied characters even using the same abilities can be. That's cool! Which Abilities are you having the most fun with, without getting into specifics? Like, when Ex3 drops in earnest, what kinds of characters are you most excited to try out (or see players in your group try out)?
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Apr 8, 2014 22:13
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Yeah, my main worry here is that the corebook can't possibly include enough full evocation charm trees to make the world feel like there are more than... I don't know, three daiklaves, three suits of artifact plate, and two powerbows in all of Creation. Obviously, supplements will help here.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:14
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah, my main worry here is that the corebook can't possibly include enough full evocation charm trees to make the world feel like there are more than... I don't know, three daiklaves, three suits of artifact plate, and two powerbows in all of Creation. Obviously, supplements will help here. The first supplement is gonna be full of Evocations, isn't it? I know you were more excited about the warstrider rules but there should be a lot of Evocation support in Arms of the Chosen or whatever it's called.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:18
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Attorney at Funk posted:That's cool! Which Abilities are you having the most fun with, without getting into specifics? Like, when Ex3 drops in earnest, what kinds of characters are you most excited to try out (or see players in your group try out)? This is a hard question. Let me see. Brawl, Melee, Athletics, Resistance, Socialize, Larceny, and Stealth are all ones I've played with significantly and enjoy. Combining any of these abilities together can make an amazing character, I know first hand. Second hand I've seen cool things out of basically everything. Ferrinus posted:Yeah, my main worry here is that the corebook can't possibly include enough full evocation charm trees to make the world feel like there are more than... I don't know, three daiklaves, three suits of artifact plate, and two powerbows in all of Creation. Obviously, supplements will help here. Remember that Arms of the Chosen is the first non-'hardcover' coming out after core with more Evocation stuff in it. Though seriously by the time everything I've got and the evocation stuff gets printed I'm pretty sure you'll be able to murder people with how heavy the book will be. Also it looks like you aren't expected to, again, get every Evocation. Different flavoring stuff can mean a lot. what's the difference between summoning a lava flow and say, chain lightning, if you want to refluff it that way?
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Apr 8, 2014 22:20
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Stallion Cabana posted:you're not expected to buy all of them. You're not even expected to buy every charm in the abilities you really really want to be good at. You aren't expected to take every feat in D&D either, that doesn't mean that feat bloat isn't a bunch of bullshit. Look, I'm not stupid, I have no illusions that a new edition of Exalted is going to be streamlined or anything ridiculous like that, but the simple fact is that the more stuff you cram into an RPG the less able you are to check and make sure that it's all good and not 90% garbage and 10% actually useful and fun material. I don't have Ex3, I can't judge it, I just know that bloat of any sort is kind of a common issue across a lot of RPGs, past editions of Exalted included, and arguments to the effect of "well if they manage to make all these 10,000 options interesting and good then it'll all work out okay!" don't inspire a lot of confidence in me. Like, Ferrinus even points out that doing it this way means that the core book is going to be limited in how many pieces of magical gear the writers can include simply due to space limitations, and the fix for this is apparently "oh the first supplement we're releasing is a Big Book of Gear."
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Apr 8, 2014 22:32
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Attorney at Funk posted:If they all feel individually worth buying then it's all good It'll suck if there's a lot of perfunctory filler charms, but there might not be! I'm confident that the Ex3 team at least wants to avoid that. We'll see how successful they are in practice. There are more charms in that one daiklave than in the entire 2e core Solar melee tree. Someone mentioned that it was laid out like Sorcery spells: there are more charms in that one daiklave than sorcery spells in the last corebook. That's too just loving many to possibly keep up with when spread over an entire armory of weapons, let alone make everyone good and worthwhile. That is just an unreasonably large number of charms to use as a baseline. I mean, honestly; As a GM, does it make you want to ever create custom artifact weapons, if keeping up with the standard core artifacts requires generating two martial arts' worth of charms for every single one? My interest in custom 3e Artifacts shriveled up and died just looking at that tree. I like the idea of Evocations, but gently caress, I can see the loving wave of bloat coming from here. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 22:42
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:That is just an unreasonably large number of charms to use as a baseline. I mean, honestly; As a GM, does it make you want to create custom artifact weapons, if keeping up with the standard core artifacts requires generating two martial arts' worth of charms for every single one? I probably would, yeah. I wouldn't do it for every single daiklave anyone found, but putting together an Evocation tree for someone's signature weapon looks like it's on the order of putting together a custom bloodline for someone in terms of the amount of work it takes. If every single magic weapon has a fifteen-charm tree attached to it, then that's excessive, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case. To be fair though I also probably would put it together collaboratively with the player so that it wasn't something they'd want to discard for a better option, and I wouldn't feel obligated to do up the entire Charm tree right when they found the weapon.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:47
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Attorney at Funk posted:I probably would, yeah. I wouldn't do it for every single daiklave anyone found, but putting together an Evocation tree for someone's signature weapon looks like it's on the order of putting together a custom bloodline for someone in terms of the amount of work it takes. If every single magic weapon has a fifteen-charm tree attached to it, then that's excessive, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case. Well, one, that's a nineteen charm tree, and two, so you're agreeing with me that the baseline should be fewer than fifteen-nineteen charms per artifact? Like maybe half as many? Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 22:51
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