|
Darth TNT posted:I've been playing Pokémon. You missed a great one. quote:•In Into the Woods, it's heavily implied that Jack gets it on in some manner with the Giantess at the top of the beanstalk. It's also pretty clear that the Big Bad Wolf rapes Little Red Riding Hood. And her Granny. At least the first guy gets called out.
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 09:24 |
|
|
Fuego Fish posted:The basic conceit is that the main character is a teenage girl but decides to play as a dude in the game, which is something that has never happened before ever... which requires a heavy amount of suspension of disbelief from a jaded Internet veteran. She ends up forming a guild (the name of which apparently translates charmingly from Chinese as "the Odd Squad") and then becoming the ruler of one of the in-game cities. I thought the explanation for the "I'm actually a girl" was that the game was programmed to use the players' real gender because reasons, but the GM who helped the main character make her virtual person used some exploit to swap her character's gender. Because reasons. Dabir posted:Jack and the Beanstalk Why is it that the only 'analysis' tropers ever do is the sort where they read far too much into the tiniest things for results that aren't meaningful?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Now I know I've seen something about Red Riding Hood and Wolf-Rape before... something about how fairy tales were cleaned up, and they used to be really grim(m). Like Cinderella's Ugly Stepsisters taking knives to their feet to try and fit into the glass slippers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Well it's not the original story, that was under the 'Theater' category so presumably it's a DarkerAndEdgier retelling. But point stands.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Elfface posted:Now I know I've seen something about Red Riding Hood and Wolf-Rape before... something about how fairy tales were cleaned up, and they used to be really grim(m). Like Cinderella's Ugly Stepsisters taking knives to their feet to try and fit into the glass slippers. Well the original versions of Red Riding Hood written down were much more graphic in the violence, but it did not include rape.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:15
|
|
|
Wales Grey posted:I thought the explanation for the "I'm actually a girl" was that the game was programmed to use the players' real gender because reasons, but the GM who helped the main character make her virtual person used some exploit to swap her character's gender. Because reasons. Oh, yeah, I know. I just find it amusing that a videogame would basically force you to play as yourself instead of letting you indulge in escapism like they're supposed to. Although who knows what social norms are commonplace in the far-flung year of 2100 AD?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
Dabir posted:At least the first guy gets called out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
Wales Grey posted:
Because that's all they know and can handle. Anything else and they either miss the point or see it as worthless. quote:Well the original versions of Red Riding Hood written down were much more graphic in the violence, but it did not include rape. But it has been interpreted as a warning to women against unsavory men (a "wolf" has been used as a slang term for a lecherous man. Not so much anymore, unless it's the term "wolf whistle"). Not sure if that's true or not, as I heard about it in high school. The rape thing is just Tropers' minds taking permanent residence in the gutter. Penny Paper fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
Penny Paper posted:The rape thing is just Tropers' minds taking permanent residence in the gutter. More an inability to grasp the concept of fiction, I'd say. A story can't have mythic overtones of sexual menace; the characters have to be literally raping each other. Metaphorical resonances are just clues to stuff that happens offstage in the fan fiction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Well the original versions of Red Riding Hood written down were much more graphic in the violence, but it did not include rape. Though to be fair, one of the earliest versions has the wolf ordering her to take off her clothes one item at a time before getting into the bed with him. And in that same one, after the wolf tricks the girl into eating her grandmother's flesh, the cat calls her a slut. I would say that Little Red Riding Hood would be the one fairy tale where rape really isn't that odd of a reading of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Well it's not the original story, that was under the 'Theater' category so presumably it's a DarkerAndEdgier retelling. But point stands. Act 1 of Into the Woods is a pretty faithful musical retelling of the stories of Jack and the Beanstalk and Little Red Riding Hood (among others) interwoven with a connecting story of the mentioned Baker (who winds up being the one who sells Jack the beans, among other things, for instance.) Every event described on that page from Into the Woods is from Act 1. Act 2 does get a bit dark and edgyyyy but there's uh, definitely still no rape!
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
There's always rape if you look hard enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 00:26
|
|
|
quote:It is debatable about Jack and the Giantess (The line is "And she gave me food and she gave me rest, and she drew me close to her giant breast."), This, to me, is the telling part. "Draws you close to her giant breast" can't just be a motherly gesture in a show that is largely about the relationship between parent and child. No, Sondheim may well have written it to mean that Jack literally touched the Giantess's boobies, which naturally means they hosed because Tropers have never made physical contact with a woman.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 00:50
|
|
|
I like how they start with a nerdy observation about pokemon ('hey, these egg groups are hilariously messed up when you think about it, oh you wacky video game rules, lol') and then turn it into an indexed catalogue of inter-species rape in fiction. If you read the entry's start, it's not even about having sex, it's about unlikly genetic hybridsquote:In a broader sense, this may apply to any work of fiction in which two grossly dissimilar species are somehow capable of interbreeding. This pretty much misses the point of the term "species", which is supposed to indicate which animals can breed successfully in the first place. The dragon-donkey things from Shrek are an example that would fit. "Little Red Riding Hood gets raped by the Big Bad Wolf  " doesn't, but that won't stop Tropers from injecting their fetishes everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:Though to be fair, one of the earliest versions has the wolf ordering her to take off her clothes one item at a time before getting into the bed with him. And in that same one, after the wolf tricks the girl into eating her grandmother's flesh, the cat calls her a slut. I would say that Little Red Riding Hood would be the one fairy tale where rape really isn't that odd of a reading of it. I remember Neil Gaiman talking about that version once: "Throw your clothes onto the fireplace, you won't be needing them any longer," or something like that. Which is true, because she'd be dead. You can easily argue the symbolism in fairy tales, but characters like the Big Bad Wolf as a representation of sexual awakening/danger is the lowest of the low-hanging fruit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
Just browsing the first pages of TVTropes' writing help forum, I'm stuck by how very different their concerns are from ours. Some of the titles that made me laugh:quote:
William Bear fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Apr 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
 says the Pokemon creepypasta involves the cartridge coming to live and blood everywhere and the main character going insane.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 05:19
|
|
|
Kaiser Mazoku posted:
9/10 chance it's either Lavender Town or Twitch Plays Pokemon. e: They posted it and it's neither of those things, just a bunch of boring game mechanics nonsense and also Slenderman for some reason. Cygna fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Apr 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 05:39
|
|
|
I don't have any proper content, but I was reminded of TV Tropes the other day when I was listening to an interview with a publishing agent. He claimed that he once received a novel manuscript for a potential thriller. He read the first page or so and saw that it was badly-written, so he quickly rejected it. A short while later he gets a call from the author. He was (perhaps understandably) upset at being rejected, but why exactly was he upset? Because he had used graphs and statistical analysis to write THE PERFECT THRILLER! There's a sex scene on p.13! There's an explosion on p.20! It's objectively destined for success! The agent was at a loss for words. That's all well and good he said in the interview, but where's the heart? Where's the desire to want to write and tell a story? Any agents or editors here (I think there are one or two with experience in the industry at least) might know this story, and if so then they may well think/know it's apocryphal. Reading this thread though, I'd be willing to believe it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 07:11
|
|
|
Dabir posted:You missed a great one.  It's not so much as missed as more that I felt my post was long enough as it was and I didn't feel like clicking all topics open.quote:•Is it racist to give a Native American supersoldier tomahawks? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 07:37
|
|
|
Kaboom Dragoon posted:I remember Neil Gaiman talking about that version once: "Throw your clothes onto the fireplace, you won't be needing them any longer," or something like that. Which is true, because she'd be dead. It's not just "throw your clothes onto the fireplace" though, almost half of the story is him having her strip off her clothes one item at a time. And again, there's also the issue of Red's cat calling her a slut for going along with the wolf's orders. It's not "low-hanging fruit" to read the symbolism that the Big Bad Wolf might represent a sexual predator, fairy tales aren't exactly meant to be particularly deep and challenging.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 08:12
|
|
|
"Darth TNT posted:
Well, yes, but Oumagadoki Doubutsuen was a (short-running) manga about a zoo where animals became anthropomorphic when night fell. His untransformed state was, well, a Rhino. Uwabami's untransformed state was a couple of snakes. It was actually pretty good, but was cancelled early because Japan has bad taste.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 09:06
|
|
|
Kaboom Dragoon posted:I remember Neil Gaiman talking about that version once: "Throw your clothes onto the fireplace, you won't be needing them any longer," or something like that. Which is true, because she'd be dead. The obvious interpretation is usually the right one, especially with fairy tales. It's a hundreds of years old story that literally exists just to warn young girls about strangers. There's not going to be much red herring regarding what the allegory is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 09:36
|
|
|
BioMe posted:The obvious interpretation is usually the right one, especially with fairy tales. It's a hundreds of years old story that literally exists just to warn young girls about strangers. There's not going to be much red herring regarding what the allegory is. But how can you have a deep and meaningful story if you spell out the obvious for the reader? If they know what's going to happen anyways, then why would they bother reading your supplementary material on the Big Bad Wolf's two dozen other rape victims, and their trope lists? You're wasting potential stories, man!
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 09:41
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:
Maybe they're thinking that superficially copying HR Geiger pieces makes them deep and edgy? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 12:02
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:I need to read this, my mind can't comprehend what they are going for. Is being a kid a gender? Are you inanimate? Are we putting kids in guns? Is the first part unrelated to the second part? Do we even use bullets in the future? Why do you want to associate gender with inanimate objects? This female reminds me of a teacup! If you're curious, the topic is here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13860591320A17777700&page=0 quote:It's a simple question; if the sword can be seen as a substitute for the phallus, why can't a gun be seen as a substitute for a womb? I laughed at the title mainly because it sounds like a last-minute term paper on human sexuality. But the question is dumb, too. All I can imagine thinking about the poster's idea is a grindhouse character who gets revenge on the men who killed her children with bullets named after her children.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 14:57
|
|
|
TvTropes: why can't a gun be seen as a substitute for a womb?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 15:22
|
|
|
William Bear posted:If you're curious, the topic is here: That's why they think guns are seen as penis extensions, because bullets are like jizz? Basically every weapon has been used as phallic imagery at one point or another, the type of weapon matters less than the act of dominating others with it. I mean, I know there can be some physical resemblance too (swords), but Jesus these people are dense for a group that considers themselves literati. I do like how he instantly jumps to womb and babies, and not the more obvious ensnaring or enveloping metaphor that a lot of yonic imagery has. Men get a metaphor for sex, women get a metaphor for childbirth, as it must always be  .
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 15:32
|
|
|
I like the Wall Bangers pages because they show what tropers really hate.Wall Bangers: Web Original posted:[Tropes vs Women] goes on to dismiss Damsel in Distress as objectifying women because it "turns them into an object to be acted upon". This is akin to saying that anyone who worries about their loved ones when they're hurt or in danger is being misogynistic. Willingness to sacrifice yourself for a loved one isn't a sign you want to use and possess them - it's a sign you care for them and don't want them to be hurt. WOMEN Wall Bangers: That Guy With The Glasses posted:While Linkara is usually a sensitive person, to the point that he apologises when he realises he's offended people, his dismissal of the idea of unhealthy body image of men in comics in his All-Star Batman and Robin #1-2 review comes off as obnoxious. He just dismisses it by saying "Men have it bad too. They have hugely built bodies that we can't hope to compares to" in his whiny voice. This is not an insult. He actually uses the voice he uses when reading annoying characters' lines. He follows by saying that people who say things like that "don't get the problem" and that women are drawn this way "purely for the titillation of the male reader." Apparently problems with one's body image resulting from seeing idealised figures isn't a big problem, and Linkara knows the intent of every artist who has ever drawn FanService-y women. MISANDRY Wall Bangers: Tabletop Games posted:Magic: The Gathering has some fun ones. First, we have that artifacts originally were turned "off" when tapped (turned 90 degrees). Fine. Except that they changed it, and now they specifically rewrote Winter Orb to include the broken "turned off when tapped" factor. Then there's the Humility (all creatures are vanilla 0/1s)/Opalescence (all enchantments are creatures) rules clusterfuck, and both were Standard-legal at the same time. There used to be a card type called Interrupt, associated with damage prevention (Reverse Damage), counterspells (the eponymous card), and mana generation (Dark Ritual). Interrupts were an exception to the FIFO rule. In Fifth Edition, they changed the rule to LIFO, but kept the Interrupt type, until Sixth Edition. By the way, Sixth Edition experimented with the idea of damage on "the stack". This meant that my Shock Troops could do damage, then I could sacrifice them for more damage. And that's to say nothing of the arbitrary times they put reminder text on a card, usually defeating the purpose of giving an ability a name. CARD GAMES CHANGING Wall Bangers: Literature posted:1984: At some point, someone needed to get Orwell away from the typewriter and tell him that enough was enough when it comes to Winston's torture in Part III. Whereas Orwell's contemporary, Aldous Huxley, wrote a compelling debate between rebel and tyrant at the end of Brave New World, O'Brien just gives an Anvilicious, 40-page Mind Rape to Winston. George, there is a way to give a warning about totalitarianism without kicking us in the balls. BOOKS THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
BEEP BOOP I CANNOT UNDERSTAND ALLEGORY, IT IS NOT LITERAL. I guess that troper didn't like 1984 because Winston wasn't hot-blooded enough to bring down the Party and end up with his true love. But he also didn't think Animal Farm was realistic enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
And in such a condescending tone, too. "George, you don't have to explain the inner workings of the totalitarian system that forms the core of your book in detail.  Why, let me just show you on a few examples of Anime how you could have done better."
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:MISANDRY 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 22:59
|
|
|
quote:On the subject of Brave New World, the finale of that book featured the tyrant giving a long, detailed and perfectly reasonable justification for the totalitarianism of the World State. We're clearly not supposed to agree with him, but you potentially could. And what defence does O'Brien offer? None - all that matters is power. This is a book which is praised for providing a deep insight into the totalitarian mindset, and yet it reduces the advocates of authoritarianism to Saturday morning cartoon villains. "Totalitarian-shaming!" 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:11
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:
We've always been at war with good taste.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
These are the same people who have intricate plans with how to deal with a zombie apocalypse aren't they? I can tell because they think characters in books should think like they too are reading the story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
Egregious Offences posted:We've always been at war with good taste. No, see, that's supposed to be an obvious lie... 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
Augustin Iturbide posted:These are the same people who have intricate plans with how to deal with a zombie apocalypse aren't they? I can tell because they think characters in books should think like they too are reading the story. Who the gently caress wants to read a story where the main characters aren't as GENRE SAVVY as the reader is????
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
Tropers are the people who'd be burning books in The Day After Tomorrow instead of chairs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
Do Tropers have a Trope for Unreliable Narrators?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 09:24 |
|
|
Yes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnreliableNarrator Go nuts, It's
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2014 00:00
|
|
