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Phlegmish posted:Yeah, but he was talking specifically about Calvinism. If you're going to be Protestant you should be Calvinist at the very least, and preferably a member of some crazy denomination that believes it's a lost tribe of Israel or something. I don't know what the point is of being Lutheran. And don't get me started on Anglicanism, they shouldn't even be considered Protestant. Being Lutheran is cool, protestant state churches for the win, nothing of these stupid American churches that think 2013 should have been the rapture (lol). System Metternich posted:Hm, I don't know. It's not quite fair to ascribe compare mostly Catholic parts of Germany which were ALL part of West Germany with those Lutheran parts of Germany that were part of East Germany. And additionally, rich Bavaria was one of the poor states in West Germany only a few decades ago, nothing is set in stone.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:37
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Current religious denomination has nothing to do with his thesis. The argument is that we're all protestants now. Our society has adopted that work ethic so as to be successful. You can be catholic, protestant, muslim or hindu, but at the end of the day you work like a protestant.
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Mar 31, 2014 19:30
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What is a Catholic work ethic?
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Mar 31, 2014 19:36
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Metrication posted:What is a Catholic work ethic? Lazy mooching 
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Mar 31, 2014 19:37
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Panas posted:Current religious denomination has nothing to do with his thesis. The argument is that we're all protestants now. Our society has adopted that work ethic so as to be successful. You can be catholic, protestant, muslim or hindu, but at the end of the day you work like a protestant. Unless you're attending the something is awful dot com forums, which makes it highly likely that you do not work at all.  Could it be that women have more children if the sun is perfectly at the zenith?
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Mar 31, 2014 19:40
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Or maybe just maybe fertility is dependent on surrounding social instability and insecurity about the future!
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Mar 31, 2014 19:43
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Metrication posted:What is a Catholic work ethic? Invade some other country and make their people do all the work. And fighting in the next war.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:08
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I don't think there are any grognard games yet about the Afghanistan War, I wonder how long those will take to come out?
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Mar 31, 2014 20:16
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Metrication posted:What is a Catholic work ethic? Terry Gilliam, when he was working on The Adventures of Baron Munchausen in Italy, commented that one of the reasons the film was such a production disaster was because his largely Italian, catholic crew focused on him as "God" with his cinematographer as the "Pope", and all of that filtered down, while his own "protestant" approach to film-making allowed for everybody to speak to God directly.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:28
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DrSunshine posted:Or maybe just maybe fertility is dependent on surrounding social instability and insecurity about the future! Nonsense, Sun angle = babies, case closed.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:37
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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DutchDupe posted:Terry Gilliam, when he was working on The Adventures of Baron Munchausen in Italy, commented that one of the reasons the film was such a production disaster was because his largely Italian, catholic crew focused on him as "God" with his cinematographer as the "Pope", and all of that filtered down, while his own "protestant" approach to film-making allowed for everybody to speak to God directly. It was probably because of Mediterranean shiftlesness.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:34
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Apr 1, 2014 00:58
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good for Austria-Hungary 
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Apr 1, 2014 01:16
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Map doesn't include Rockall but includes Lot's Wife. Clearly some anti-British bias here.
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Apr 1, 2014 01:30
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Wow, 3.5 million people in total actually live on all those teeny-tiny islands! That's the real surprise there.
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Apr 1, 2014 02:48
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DrSunshine posted:Wow, 3.5 million people in total actually live on all those teeny-tiny islands! That's the real surprise there. And almost all Portuguese (Azores, Madeira, Cape Verde, Sao Tome & Principe)
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Apr 1, 2014 03:20
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Panas posted:Current religious denomination has nothing to do with his thesis. The argument is that we're all protestants now. Our society has adopted that work ethic so as to be successful. You can be catholic, protestant, muslim or hindu, but at the end of the day you work like a protestant. And yet the type of capitalism that made Germany and England prosperous was doing the same for catholic Italy centuries beforehand
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Apr 1, 2014 03:40
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DrSunshine posted:Wow, 3.5 million people in total actually live on all those teeny-tiny islands! That's the real surprise there. I have to say it's interesting that the island of Mauritius today supports a population of over one million but had apparently not experienced any serious colonization attempts prior to the Dutch in the 1600s (the Arabs and even the Portuguese evidently weren't interested).
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Apr 1, 2014 04:26
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Emanuel Collective posted:And yet the type of capitalism that made Germany and England prosperous was doing the same for catholic Italy centuries beforehand Not necessarily. Germany and England both prospered mostly because of their booming industrial and export-oriented sector, whereas the Italian city-states of the middle ages and early modern era were exclusively trade republics. A merchants-and-craftsmen-society like that functions very differently from one in which factory owners employ a large part of the rest of the populace for pitiable wages.
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Apr 1, 2014 07:05
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I guess it's a matter of perspective, for those Europeans who had no idea that there was a continent between them and Asia it was a genuine discovery. It wasn't even a "rediscovery" because nobody in Europe ever knew of America, except for some viking legends about Vinland perhaps. On the other hand it is kind of belittling the preexisting human societies in the Americas. Edit: Just thinking about it, that map is still very impressive. All these islands that are thousands of kilometers closer to Africa/Asia/America/Australia, and they were only discovered by European sailors. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 07:16
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:I don't think there are any grognard games yet about the Afghanistan War, I wonder how long those will take to come out?
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Apr 1, 2014 08:20
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Oh cool, didn't see that the COIN family had a new one.
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Apr 1, 2014 10:06
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Torrannor posted:I guess it's a matter of perspective, for those Europeans who had no idea that there was a continent between them and Asia it was a genuine discovery. It wasn't even a "rediscovery" because nobody in Europe ever knew of America, except for some viking legends about Vinland perhaps. On the other hand it is kind of belittling the preexisting human societies in the Americas. The map has been posted before, and it really is impressive for Europeans to discover islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. With the exception of the Polynesians, other cultures were really slacking off when it came to discovering things during that era.
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Apr 1, 2014 10:28
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Phlegmish posted:The map has been posted before, and it really is impressive for Europeans to discover islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. With the exception of the Polynesians, other cultures were really slacking off when it came to discovering things during that era. Was there some kind of land bridge from Africa to Madagascar during the ice age? Otherwise I am a bit puzzled that nobody bothered to settle the surrounding islands, even though they would have had to have access to ships to get there in the first place.
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Apr 1, 2014 11:45
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Torrannor posted:Was there some kind of land bridge from Africa to Madagascar during the ice age? Otherwise I am a bit puzzled that nobody bothered to settle the surrounding islands, even though they would have had to have access to ships to get there in the first place.
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Apr 1, 2014 11:48
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 fine print is the politically loaded part e: also mormons are the worst, all yankees or red sox fans
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Apr 1, 2014 12:04
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Also whoever posted that Standard & Poor's map: credit rating agencies are literally the Naked Emperor. Their ratings are only true because people believe them to be true, but often have no basis in actual reality, and even contributed to the 2008 financial meltdown by rating several financial instruments and derivatives as top investment choices while they were clearly anything but.
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Apr 1, 2014 12:06
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New York Public Library just released 20000 historical maps free to the public. I don't even know where to begin. Enjoy, thread! http://www.nypl.org/blog/2014/03/28/open-access-maps
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Apr 1, 2014 13:09
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rscott posted:
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Apr 1, 2014 13:56
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Emanuel Collective posted:And yet the type of capitalism that made Germany and England prosperous was doing the same for catholic Italy centuries beforehand System metternich addressed this, but viewing the protestant work ethic as some kind of racist northern european attempt to feel superior to those lazy southerners misses the point entirely. That little triangle of northern france, southern england, parts of western germany and the netherlands did develop into the first modern industrial base in our world. That's not to say that wealth didn't exist before in other places of the world, but it didn't exist on that level and in that particular form. England industrialized and dominated a quarter of the world. It's a small lovely island with bad weather. How did that happen and why wasn't it italy or china or russia or whatever empire/nation you want to name that didn't have this particular ideological grounding. Seriously, i hear about this protestant work ethic thing all the time. If someone has a good argument against it, please make it.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:01
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Panas posted:System metternich addressed this, but viewing the protestant work ethic as some kind of racist northern european attempt to feel superior to those lazy southerners misses the point entirely. That little triangle of northern france, southern england, parts of western germany and the netherlands did develop into the first modern industrial base in our world. England industrialized first because they kicked a bunch of people off of their land who had nothing else to do but move to the cities and work poo poo wages. The rest of that region industrialized early because of global proximity to England. Russia & China did not because they didn't value outside technology as an unambiguous good (for good reason in the latter's case), not due to laziness. Japan industrialized similarly to the rest of Europe once it had the means (i.e., knowledge) to.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:10
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Rumda fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 14:11
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Panas posted:System metternich addressed this, but viewing the protestant work ethic as some kind of racist northern european attempt to feel superior to those lazy southerners misses the point entirely. That little triangle of northern france, southern england, parts of western germany and the netherlands did develop into the first modern industrial base in our world. You're basically asking why did the industrial revolution happen, which is a complex topic which involves a lot more then which denomination of a religion people follow. There's literally thousands of papers and books dedicated to that topic.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:13
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Also 'Protestant work ethic' is not a concept discussed at all or acknowledged to be a thing outside of nominally Protestant countries. It's a national pride thing that is usually deployed in Europe when we're talking about how really colonialism wasn't so bad.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:22
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Sri.Theo posted:You're basically asking why did the industrial revolution happen, which is a complex topic which involves a lot more then which denomination of a religion people follow. There's literally thousands of papers and books dedicated to that topic. I had a professor who was asked what was the closest thing to a one-sentence of summation of "how to industrialize", and he said the closest he could get was that when the rate of income growth in a population reaches a certain level over an extended period of time, industrialization eventually occurs. It's surely very rough and incomplete, but there you go.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:25
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rscott posted:
The Cardinals being blue on this map is driving me crazy.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:25
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And I thought there were some more radical protestant groups who thought that any achievement on Earth was pointless and they would be rewarded in heaven, leading to a less than ambitious work ethic? Or am I mixing them up with some of the Catholic heresies?
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Apr 1, 2014 14:25
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The Protestant work ethic thing is also bunk because Anglicanism is a lot different from Calvanism and Lutheranism but they all fit under the Protestant tag, ergo, industrialization!
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Apr 1, 2014 14:34
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Emanuel Collective posted:The Protestant work ethic thing is also bunk because Anglicanism is a lot different from Calvanism and Lutheranism but they all fit under the Protestant tag, ergo, industrialization!
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Apr 1, 2014 14:53
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Panas posted:How did that happen and why wasn't it italy or china or russia or whatever empire/nation you want to name that didn't have this particular ideological grounding. I've seen the argument that India could have started industrializing at around the same time as the UK (the technology was there, at least), but we'll never know since the British started taking over right around that time. That destroyed any chance of an industrial revolution taking place in India since the British focused on extracting raw materials to send to factories in England and then sending back the finished goods to sell in India.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:03
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