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Basil Hayden posted:They have been ranked before, but not since the '90s. I think that was in 1996. I remember being in third grade on a hunting trip and staying the night in Dubois and my dad and cousin talking about that. That reminds me. Every once in a while people would give me poo poo because the university I chose to go to was a Mountain West school and that UW sucks. Because it turns out your education's value hinges on if the conference the school is in is good or not.
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Apr 2, 2014 00:13
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yeah, here's one that supposedly includes all teams, though I'm not sure about how accurate it is. ATM definitely aren't as popular as UT in all of east Texas. Eat poo poo, South Dakota State.
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Apr 2, 2014 00:37
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Phlegmish posted:So it's a bit rich for Scandinavians to look down on them, considering that they themselves were mostly impoverished fishermen on the periphery of Europe until well into the 20th century. That's a gross simplification. There were plenty of impoverished farmers, miners and metalworkers as well. 
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Apr 2, 2014 00:46
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:
I'm not the only person that saw this and got a bit uncomfortable, right? Ebola is supposed to be so deadly it burns out instead of spreading 
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Apr 2, 2014 01:23
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EightBit posted:I'm not the only person that saw this and got a bit uncomfortable, right? Ebola is supposed to be so deadly it burns out instead of spreading Ebola's had outbreaks before, that's nothing new. It just (most likely) isnt capable of becoming too huge of an epidemic due to the speed at which it kills.
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Apr 2, 2014 02:23
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Panas posted:System metternich addressed this, but viewing the protestant work ethic as some kind of racist northern european attempt to feel superior to those lazy southerners misses the point entirely. That little triangle of northern france, southern england, parts of western germany and the netherlands did develop into the first modern industrial base in our world. Mind if I turn the question around and instead ask you; what evidence is there that there is a protestant work ethic? If there is, what evidence is there that it explains differences in wealth between geographic regions? First I feel it is debatable whether or not there ever was a difference in the psychology of Protestants and Catholics. To support this ethic's source in Protestantism and especially Calvinism, Weber quotes extensively from major Protestant theologists like Luther and Calvin. But I can find dozens of quotes from those of other faiths espousing things that sound remarkably similar. Weber might counter that it was not just calls for modesty and frugality that induced the PWE, but the effect of specific theological doctrines on the psychology of protestants. Yet he established at the beginning of "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" that belief in a specific theology is unnecessary for adoption of the PWE. Weber specifically says that in his time the PWE had spread between all faiths and nations. By his own admission it was only particularly protestant during its genesis. Yet if this ethic does not now stem from protestant theologies, why should we assume it ever did? I read the Spirit of Capitalism, but admit I skipped the hundred or so pages of footnotes, so i didn't see any of Weber's historical evidence. Looking at the wikipedia article it seems modern scholars are divided over whether there ever was a statistically significant difference in wealth between comparable Protestants and Catholics, and if there was a difference it was more likely attributable to differences in literacy rates than something less concrete like "work ethic." So if there never was a difference in wealth it would imply the PWE, assuming it even exists, has no effect on economic development. There are a lot other variables that we know are important to the accumulation of wealth. For example position on trade routes, soil fertility, earlier ownership of wealth, social structure, material conditions, etc. Why resort to unjustified just-so stories? When doing this kind of historical analysis you must also be careful not to rule out chance as an explanation. For example during the rise of capitalism powdered wigs were all the rage in Europe. Yet that doesn't mean powdered wigs caused Europe's economic dominance. Empires have always risen and fallen. Sometimes its just a lucky throw of the die that determines who rises. Reading Weber's theory gave me the same feeling as reading a long justification of chiropractic medicine or theories of yogic healing or Orgone. The train of thought might be perfectly logical, its just divorced from real observed experience. edit: lol googling For PWE map pulled up this ridiculous map from a forum describing itself as "A European Cultural Community"  The colors indicate climate, with red indicating warmer, milder climates. Black lines indicate the predominant faith. The person who made it believes the colder winter in protestant areas could explain the PWE, because you have to "plan for winter much better." The poster attributes Eastern Europe's failure to develop and an "Orthodox work ethic" to its "backward"ness. Squalid fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 02:43
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Pakled posted:Ebola's had outbreaks before, that's nothing new. It just (most likely) isnt capable of becoming too huge of an epidemic due to the speed at which it kills. This outbreak by far has the widest geographical reach ever, though, which makes it very hard to contain. First to ever jump borders. I'd think its means of spreading (bodily fluids) is a bigger limitation than the speed of killing, you can live and spread it for up to a week (and from corpses for up the two weeks later). If it were to ever somehow go airborn it'd be very bad.
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Apr 2, 2014 02:55
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Squalid posted:Mind if I turn the question around and instead ask you; what evidence is there that there is a protestant work ethic? If there is, what evidence is there that it explains differences in wealth between geographic regions? Man, this idea that climate affects work ethic and, thus prosperity, has been around a long time. Montesquieu wrote extensively about it in The Spirit of The Laws. It is not a good path to go down. quote:The heat of the climate may be so excessive as to deprive the body of all vigour and strength. Then the faintness is communicated to the mind; there is no curiosity, no enterprise, no generosity of sentiment; the inclinations are all passive; indolence constitutes the utmost happiness; scarcely any punishment is so severe as mental employment; and slavery is more supportable than the force and vigour of mind necessary for human conduct. quote:In those countries where the excess of heat enervates and exhausts the body, rest is so delicious, and motion so painful, that this system of metaphysics seems natural; and Foe, the legislator of the Indies, was directed by his own sensations when he placed mankind in a state extremely passive; but his doctrine arising from the laziness of the climate favoured it also in its turn; which has been the source of an infinite deal of mischief. quote:On the contrary, the people of India are mild, tender, and compassionate. Hence their legislators repose great confidence in them. They have established very few punishments; these are not severe, nor are they rigorously executed. They have subjected nephews to their uncles, and orphans to their guardians, as in other countries they are subjected to their fathers; they have regulated the succession by the acknowledged merit of the successor. They seem to think that every individual ought to place entire confidence in the good nature of his fellow-subjects. They enfranchise their slaves without difficulty, they marry them, they treat them as their children. Happy climate which gives birth to innocence, and produces a lenity in the laws! I wonder if he would have thought India had such a mild, tender, and compassionate climate if he'd visited it during the monsoon season.  quote:The cause of there being such a number of savage nations in America is the fertility of the earth, which spontaneously produces many fruits capable of affording them nourishment. If the women cultivate a spot of land around their cottages, the maize grows up presently; and hunting and fishing put the men in a state of complete abundance. Besides, black cattle, as cows, buffaloes, &c., thrive there better than carnivorous beasts. The latter have always reigned in Africa.
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Apr 2, 2014 03:12
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yeah, here's one that supposedly includes all teams, though I'm not sure about how accurate it is. ATM definitely aren't as popular as UT in all of east Texas. It's a little hard to see exactly where that line between Bobcats and Boise State but given they're based in Bozeman I would have expected the Bobcats would get a lot further west than this. Anyway as an adoptive resident of Bozeman I say: gently caress Boise State and gently caress Missoula and the respective horses they rode in on
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Apr 2, 2014 03:24
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Squalid posted:
He made a nice looking map though.
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Apr 2, 2014 03:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Anti-Catholic Work Ethic. I love the idea that productivity in Northern Europe is driven by the collective hatred of Catholics. I know in the early 20th-Century, the Social Democrats in Sweden used anti-Catholic rhetoric to get support for progressive reforms.
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Apr 2, 2014 03:49
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Soviet Commubot posted:Equivalent NFL map, again with that treasonous southwestern corner of the state. Scientific proof that Steelers and Cowboys fans are a plague.
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Apr 2, 2014 04:46
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Count Roland posted:He made a nice looking map though. He made in that he took a nice map of climate and drew black lines on top. Did a lovely job of that too, didn't even label it.
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Apr 2, 2014 05:02
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And South Dakota would have been a warzone if Anderson hadn't have missed that kick back in '99
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Apr 2, 2014 05:03
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Zudgemud posted:I dont know about the french support but I'm pretty sure that the Hansa did not fund Sweden except in a few random parts of some conflicts, in general it supported the opposition of whoever they wanted to kick down for the moment, to prevent any of the baltic powers to gain too much influence. Pakled posted:I wonder if he would have thought India had such a mild, tender, and compassionate climate if he'd visited it during the monsoon season.
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Apr 2, 2014 06:50
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Scientific proof that Steelers and Cowboys fans are a plague. I'm guessing that a lot of those just support whatever team they see on TV most. New Mexico, for example, will get shown Cowboys and Broncos games more often than not so there's not much opportunity to become a fan of something else unless you're a transplant.
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Apr 2, 2014 11:45
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Squalid posted:Mind if I turn the question around and instead ask you; what evidence is there that there is a protestant work ethic? If there is, what evidence is there that it explains differences in wealth between geographic regions? I admit I never read the original source, but as I've said culture and its theological influences are heavily intertwined and almost impossible to separate or distinguish from each other, so I find it highly plausible that the rise of new denominations would have an effect on values and attitudes or at least stimulate trends that already exist. However, the fact that it's so entangled and that ideas spread along various networks of cultural affinity means that it's impossible to establish the independent effect of denomination. That said, even today you can find certain subtle differences between culturally similar nations that are likely to be due to religious background. Many people note this when comparing Flanders to the Netherlands, with the Southern Netherlands somewhere in between as it is Catholic. In Flanders, the Dutch are known for being bad hosts and having terrible food. In Reformed areas, they also like to leave their curtains open to show that they have nothing to hide. Conversely, the Dutch think we are rather laid back when it comes to following the rules - which is true, relatively speaking. The one stereotype that doesn't really fit is that the Dutch are seen as being rather loud and blunt ('arrogant'). I've always wondered where that came from.
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Apr 2, 2014 11:46
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Protestant work ethic is totally a real thing in Europe - not that it is an actual thing, but people believe it exists. It's pretty hilarious because Protestant countries are usually the most ambivalent about religion in general but every time something about Eurozone and loans come up you have actual commentators saying that the religion we mostly don't give a poo poo about now suddenly means that we are automatically more hardworking and generally better then those drat dirty Catholics with their perfect climate (Switzerland, Austria, Belgium and Southern Germany magically stop existing for the period of these discussions).
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Apr 2, 2014 11:49
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The economic successful countries in Europe fit quite nicely into the Hajnal line, although HRE borders are not bad either.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:02
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The Hajnal line is a decent fit, though I am wary of referring to it in a discussion like this where there are clearly moral implications.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:05
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I bet that in the 16th century, Spain and Portugal also had lots of fancy-rear end explanations to justify why they were world powers and Middle Europe would forever remain a popcorn bowl of petty states.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:17
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the jizz taxi posted:I bet that in the 16th century, Spain and Portugal also had lots of fancy-rear end explanations to justify why they were world powers and Middle Europe would forever remain a popcorn bowl of petty states. Same one, God has blessed them and their religion is better.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:26
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   the jizz taxi posted:I bet that in the 16th century, Spain and Portugal also had lots of fancy-rear end explanations to justify why they were world powers and Middle Europe would forever remain a popcorn bowl of petty states. It's OK, PWE got that covered, those were totally different because
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Apr 2, 2014 12:36
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Here we can see that it is actually the prevalence of red hair that determines economic success and social capital.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:41
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Phlegmish posted:Here we can see that it is actually the prevalence of red hair that determines economic success and social capital. I think you mean the light hair and light eyes. 
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Apr 2, 2014 12:47
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computer parts posted:I think you mean the light hair and light eyes. Well Hitler wasn't that successful in the end, was he?
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Apr 2, 2014 12:49
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computer parts posted:I think you mean the light hair and light eyes. Nope, because then you have Russia to account for.  I'm joking, but there is a remarkable similarity between the Hajnal line and that red hair map (except for Ireland and Finland). I'd still like to know where the author got those numbers from, though.
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Apr 2, 2014 12:49
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Is this proof that (ancient) aliens visited Scandanavia and taught them responsible economics?
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Apr 2, 2014 13:28
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Have some really politically-loaded maps: An Indian schoolbook from 2002 depicting Kashmir as a part of India  A 2005 Pakistani schoolbook sees Kashmir as a (disputed) part of Pakistan, on the other hand  A schoolbook from Japan (1974) painting the southern part of the Kuril Islands in a neutral white instead of truthfully depicting it as a part of the USSR  This was never a question for the Russians, as this map from 1998 shows  This Chinese schoolbook from 2001 depicts Taiwan as an integral part of China...   This German map from 1921 still depicts Germany in its pre-WWI borders. It at least shows that the de facto situation was quite different, I guess.  And this 1951 map ignores the post-WWII loss of Germany's eastern territories and the following division into two states. Maps depicting the territories east of the GDR as being "under Polish/Soviet administration" were common until 1990, I remember them in some of my older scholbooks. I wonder how fast the Russian annexation of the Crimea will find its way into Google Maps and the like? System Metternich fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 13:45
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System Metternich posted:This Chinese schoolbook from 2001 depicts Taiwan as an integral part of China... It actually seems to be depicted as independent, the capital is underscored like it is for the other independent states and there seems to be small border lines between the small islands that Taiwan administers and the Chinese mainland.
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Apr 2, 2014 14:01
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System Metternich posted:Have some really politically-loaded maps: No it doesn't, the border clearly shows that it is an international boundary and not a state border, unless this map also claims that Pakistan and Afghanistan and Bangladesh are part of India. Kainser posted:It actually seems to be depicted as independent, the capital is underscored like it is for the other independent states and there seems to be small border lines between the small islands that Taiwan administers and the Chinese mainland. I think this just demonstrates that all maps are politically-loaded if you can't read them.
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Apr 2, 2014 15:47
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I'm reading that as having Kashmir as part of India as well; the border with Kashmir looks similar to that between the other Indian states... It just isn't a very good map to be honest... Non-western maps are the best thing because they show lots of these weird land disputes - the Lithuanian map I posted earlier with all of the little Georgian/Armenian breakaway states marked as disputed would fit in with some of those...
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Apr 2, 2014 15:56
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Yeah and even if you read it as being an international border between Kashmir and Punjab there is still an international border between Kashmir and Pakistan
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Apr 2, 2014 16:01
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Kainser posted:It actually seems to be depicted as independent, the capital is underscored like it is for the other independent states and there seems to be small border lines between the small islands that Taiwan administers and the Chinese mainland. Oops, I think you're right. My bad! TildeATH posted:No it doesn't, the border clearly shows that it is an international boundary and not a state border, unless this map also claims that Pakistan and Afghanistan and Bangladesh are part of India. You can see pretty clearly that for the India-Kashmir border the same lines are used as for the other Indian states. If it would be depicted as an international border, it would be thicker and more pronounced. But then again IceAgeComing posted:It just isn't a very good map to be honest... so have a map of India from maps.google.com  and maps.google.co.in  I wonder what's different?
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Apr 2, 2014 16:20
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System Metternich posted:You can see pretty clearly that for the India-Kashmir border the same lines are used as for the other Indian states. Yeah, you're right now that I look closer. I would have thought Google would be more circumspect about this kind of thing.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:02
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It wouldn't surprise me if its the law in India that you must show Jammu + Kashmir as part of India; that may be why they do it...
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Apr 2, 2014 17:16
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quote:And this 1951 map ignores the post-WWII loss of Germany's eastern territories and the following division into two states. Maps depicting the territories east of the GDR as being "under Polish/Soviet administration" were common until 1990, I remember them in some of my older scholbooks. German borders in official documents after the war were always considered to be the borders of 31.12.1937. That only changed recently.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:55
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Riso posted:German borders in official documents after the war were always considered to be the borders of 31.12.1937. Not that recently, the border questioned was definitely settled in the early 90s by the Two Plus Four Agreement (went into effect by March 15th, 1991) and the German-Polish Border Treaty (January 16th, 1992). Willy Brandt (the first chancellor of the social democrat party) had already stated in 1970 that the Oder-Neiße line was de facto the real border and guaranteed that Germany wouldn't try to reset it by force.
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Apr 2, 2014 18:35
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yeah, here's one that supposedly includes all teams, though I'm not sure about how accurate it is. ATM definitely aren't as popular as UT in all of east Texas. What the hell is that to the right of Boise State? It looks like a strutting llama.
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Apr 2, 2014 21:04
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El Scotch posted:What the hell is that to the right of Boise State? It looks like a strutting llama. You mean the brown one? That's Wyoming's logo: a cowboy riding a bucking horse.
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Apr 2, 2014 21:20
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