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PunkBoy posted:The one Besaid villager that says she travelled the world in a futile attempt to find a place that never heard of Sin was pretty depressing. Yeah, I didn't realize all those years ago when I first played that Sin pretty much is always around and the Calm is bullshit short. For some reason I thought Braska brought about a 10 year calm but instead it was like a couple months like the rest, if that. What a hosed up world to live in.
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Apr 2, 2014 15:39
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Sin attacks a village in midday. By evening the villagers have already gathered up all the corpses and prepared them for Sending, and are making preliminary steps for rebuilding. FFX is also the only FF that comes to mind when the goal as presented at the start of the game (find some way to stop Sin) is still the goal at the end of the game.
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Apr 2, 2014 15:44
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The hardest superboss I've ever beaten was Neo Shinryuu from FFV during a Four Job Fiesta (Thief/Berserker/Beastmaster/Chemist).
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Apr 2, 2014 16:02
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Pureauthor posted:FFX is also the only FF that comes to mind when the goal as presented at the start of the game (find some way to stop Sin) is still the goal at the end of the game. Tidus never does that signal to the girls sitting in the east block in the front row, fifth from the right? Or teaches those kids how to blitz? GAME RUINED.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:07
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:Tidus never does that signal to the girls sitting in the east block in the front row, fifth from the right? Or teaches those kids how to blitz? GAME RUINED. Well no, but he does kill all of them
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Apr 2, 2014 16:09
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:Tidus never does that signal to the girls sitting in the east block in the front row, fifth from the right? Or teaches those kids how to blitz? GAME RUINED. He probably shoulder checked that guy out of the blitzball arena into their seats. That's suitable in my eyes.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:10
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Pureauthor posted:FFX is also the only FF that comes to mind when the goal as presented at the start of the game (find some way to stop Sin) is still the goal at the end of the game. I don't know what it is about Japanese games in general to totally jump the shark 3/4 through the game. Honestly, I prefer a straightforward, simple story with a compelling plot and characters rather than some insane act 3 twist.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:15
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Endorph posted:The hardest super-boss in the series is that one boss from FF11 who took so long to kill that some people legitimately passed out trying. That was Pandemonium Warden. That 18-hour fight fiasco prompted the FFXI developers to put two-hour time limits on all the superboss fights. There was also Absolute Virtue, who was never legitimately killed until players finally discovered that you could seal its strongest abilities during the fight. It took years to discover that, even with Square-Enix infamously uploading a video that supposedly contained hints to defeat him, but it was just really vague. Eventually they raised the level cap from 75 to 99, and then both fights were just fairly difficult at worst. Then they got a lot more manageable after they introduced Item Level equipment, so now you can be the equivalent of a level 119 character and grab a few buddies to casually kill what used to be the game's ultimate gently caress-you challenges.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:24
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DizzyBum posted:There was also Absolute Virtue, who was never legitimately killed until players finally discovered that you could seal its strongest abilities during the fight. It took years to discover that, even with Square-Enix infamously uploading a video that supposedly contained hints to defeat him, but it was just really vague. ...or making him aggro a dude who's watching a cutscene and is invulnerable because of it. Goddamn, I forgot that second one until I went to make this post, AV was truly a wonderful thing 
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Apr 2, 2014 16:33
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How do you seal his abilities anyways?
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Apr 2, 2014 16:36
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One thing I noticed in FFX is that Wakka, Rikku and Yuna say "ya know?" a lot, ya know? I'm going to assume it's a translation of "ne"? I've never paid that much attention to the Japanese audio for the game.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:37
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Dr Pepper posted:How do you seal his abilities anyways? You needed to do the same two-hour as him within a very small window, which was made even smaller by the fact that all the servers were located in Japan. Unfortunately locking his abilities was only one part of killing him: when you brought him down to 60% (bracelet mode) he gained access to a super-powered up Meteor regardless of two-hour status and could wipe the alliance on a whim without any two-hour. Also he had extremely high auto-regen (which could be partially negated), and the most defense of any monster in the game. Systematic System fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 16:40
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NightConqueror posted:I don't know what it is about Japanese games in general to totally jump the shark 3/4 through the game. Honestly, I prefer a straightforward, simple story with a compelling plot and characters rather than some insane act 3 twist. Honestly, I suspect the shark-jumping is at least partly them not thinking the story through too well. Or coming up with a complex story in all the wrong ways. Final Fantasy 9 was pretty simple and well told, so it made something that would have been totally insane without context like Terra and Trance Kuja work out despite being silly if you explained them to an outsider.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:42
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NightConqueror posted:I don't know what it is about Japanese games in general to totally jump the shark 3/4 through the game. Honestly, I prefer a straightforward, simple story with a compelling plot and characters rather than some insane act 3 twist. Well it's not always about WHAT A TWIST! Sometimes it's just that the plot has layers and new villains are introducd. It just so happens that even though X has layers and new "villains" are introduced, the overall goal is the same. I mean, it's not really a huge swerve that Sephiroth is the main bad guy and your goal is stopping him but that's still a different objective than your initial one of stopping Shinra sucking the life out of the Planet. Nevertheless, I think the one united goal from start to finish is why FFX's party feels right and not superfluous. How many times did people wonder why the hell Vaan or Penlo are there, or even someone like Amarant and Freya. But everyone being Yuna's Guardian on a pilgrimage to save the planet makes everyone feel like they belong. IMO anyway. It's kinda like how if you notice almost all FFs follow the pattern of an Evil Empire giving way to just a Villain. IV had you fighting Baron and then Golbez/Zemus, VI had the Gestahl Empire and then Kefka, Shinra to Sephiroth, Galbadia to Edea/Ultimecia, Alexandria to Kuja... X doesn't fit in the pattern though - your prime enemy is always Sin and Yevon and Seymour are just there. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 16:47
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My favorite part of any FF is in 6 where the bad guy actually manages to destroy most of the world. Pretty bleak poo poo going through all the places you'd been before, and having to get your party members back. Naming Edgar "Gerad" at the beginning of the game makes for a nice dumb joke after the apocalypse. Spoilered for those who haven't played it I guess.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:57
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NikkolasKing posted:Well it's not always about WHAT A TWIST! Sometimes it's just that the plot has layers and new villains are introducd. It just so happens that even though X has layers and new "villains" are introduced, the overall goal is the same. That's one of the few things I liked about FFII, it was another of those games that never really changed its goals. Sure, you were pissing around in a snowfield talking to beavers, but you were always going towards defeating the Palmecian Empire. Even when the whole last act of the Emperor taking over hell it was still the same deal since he pretty much summoned hell to begin with.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:13
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NikkolasKing posted:your prime enemy is always Sin and Yevon and Seymour are just there. Not... really? I mean you're right about Seymour, and stopping the cycle of Sin is the end goal, but how you achieve it is dependent on Sin not actually being the villain in any meaningful sense. Also I forgot how stupid the fight with Yunalesca is. I actually Game Over'd because I forgot the stupid "stay in Zombie Mode" gimmick. And I forgot how the Tetris Puzzle is the dumbest thing ever. I'm considering doing some of the optional stuff before beating the game but then I remembered all the optional stuff is for parties who can beat the game already. I mean, aside from Monster Hunting, of course.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:13
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If you beeline straight to beating the game, you can still get some reasonable challenge out of it. The more optional stuff you add, the more of a pushover the final area and final bosses are.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:16
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Vil posted:If you beeline straight to beating the game, you can still get some reasonable challenge out of it. The more optional stuff you add, the more of a pushover the final area and final bosses are. Not to say that even with a pimped out party that you can't be killed. I went into fighting Overdrive Sin all cocky about doing 20k per hit with my team's celestial weapons, and boy was I shocked when he opened the battle with an attack that petrified my entire party. (He went down before we got to him the next time. gently caress you, Sin.)
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Apr 2, 2014 17:21
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Vil posted:If you beeline straight to beating the game, you can still get some reasonable challenge out of it. The more optional stuff you add, the more of a pushover the final area and final bosses are. It's also challenging because the way the Expert Grid is set up actively makes playing the game "normally" a bit harder. Tidus and Auron are close to Quick Hit, but Lulu is 22 nodes away from Ultima, Yuna doesn't even have Full-Life yet (or Holy, but that's just because I only have exactly 4 level 4 key spheres), Rikku is the only one who will be able to get to Flare and Quick Pockets (and not for like 30 nodes, I think). At least it's trivially easy to get Doublecast for both Lulu and Yuna.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:22
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precision posted:Not... really? I mean you're right about Seymour, and stopping the cycle of Sin is the end goal, but how you achieve it is dependent on Sin not actually being the villain in any meaningful sense. I realize that. It's why I called Sin the "enemy" and not the "villain." I just meant that defeating Sin is always your target and Yevon and Seymour are just hindrances along the way. I think Seymour exists to serve the classic villain role that Sin, being a giant whale thing, isn't quite up to doing.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:22
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BLUNDERCATS! noooo posted:My favorite part of any FF is in 6 where the bad guy actually manages to destroy most of the world. Pretty bleak poo poo going through all the places you'd been before, and having to get your party members back. Naming Edgar "Gerad" at the beginning of the game makes for a nice dumb joke after the apocalypse. How old is that game? I mean, I'm pretty okay with spoiling things for people in general, but I think even the most diehard put spoilers on the costume design type people would be okay with someone spoiling an old as hell video game.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:23
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forbidden lesbian posted:How old is that game? I mean, I'm pretty okay with spoiling things for people in general, but I think even the most diehard put spoilers on the costume design type people would be okay with someone spoiling an old as hell video game. It's actually 20 years old as of today.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:27
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forbidden lesbian posted:How old is that game? I mean, I'm pretty okay with spoiling things for people in general, but I think even the most diehard put spoilers on the costume design type people would be okay with someone spoiling an old as hell video game. I have made people really angry by accidentally spoiling things older than I am (the movie SILVER BULLET for example). I do not throw caution to the wind when it comes to dumb poo poo like that.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:27
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Waldean posted:It's actually 20 years old as of today. Haha, the game is almost as old as i am.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:29
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Christ this game is almost as old as I am. I learned to read off this game!
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Apr 2, 2014 17:32
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BLUNDERCATS! noooo posted:My favorite part of any FF is in 6 where the bad guy actually manages to destroy most of the world. Pretty bleak poo poo going through all the places you'd been before, and having to get your party members back. Naming Edgar "Gerad" at the beginning of the game makes for a nice dumb joke after the apocalypse. Also beating Kefka and saving the day doesn't really fix anything. Magic is totally gone, all of the magicite dissolves, and the world as a whole is still a complete mess. The ending is pretty cheerful with the escape sequence and character credit roll, but dang, it's still a bummer.
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Apr 2, 2014 18:22
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IV is the gold standard for not knowing-where-they're-going-with-this. You fight Baron at the start and they're obviously being controlled so that's all fine, then you fight Golbez for the rest of the game, and then- no wait, Golbez is being controlled too, now you're fighting Zeromus for the last area.
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Apr 2, 2014 21:15
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Final Fantasy X looks great and is a lot of fun.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:31
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I'm pretty sure The Patriarchy is the villain in every Final Fantasy game.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:34
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Xenogenesis posted:I'm pretty sure The Patriarchy is the villain in every Final Fantasy game. Not in 8! 
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Apr 2, 2014 22:35
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Xenogenesis posted:I'm pretty sure The Patriarchy is the villain in every Final Fantasy game. Every Villain Is Lemons.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:36
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Oxygen Deficiency posted:Ozma from FF9 still eludes me to this day. I've had numerous playthroughs where I make sure i'm more than prepared to fight him but each time I do challenge him I am swiftly defeated. BloodWulfe posted:Also beating Kefka and saving the day doesn't really fix anything. Magic is totally gone, all of the magicite dissolves, and the world as a whole is still a complete mess. The ending is pretty cheerful with the escape sequence and character credit roll, but dang, it's still a bummer.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:40
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The White Dragon posted:Ozma is literally up to chance. You can come to the fight perfectly prepared and it won't change a goddamn thing if you get unlucky... and statistically, you're gonna get unlucky anywhere from 75-95% of the time depending on whether or not you did the Friendly Monsters sidequest. I've played the game a couple times, did the friendly monsters sidequest every time, and beat Ozma several times. I don't think he's ever cast Doomsday. What a dick.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:47
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Not to mention magic and magicite being completely gone is probably a good thing, considering it's what started this whole clusterfuck to begin with.
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Apr 2, 2014 22:57
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Well as dickish as Ozma can be, after looking into JRPG superbosses, I think the FF series and its fans should be thankful it doesn't have that rear end in a top hat from Digital Devil Saga.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:31
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NikkolasKing posted:Well as dickish as Ozma can be, after looking into JRPG superbosses, I think the FF series and its fans should be thankful it doesn't have that rear end in a top hat from Digital Devil Saga. C'mon, Demi-fiend isn't that har-GAEA RAGE - party wiped.  Yiazmat from XII is about the only superboss I haven't bothered with from the non-MMO FFs. 50 million HP is just absurd.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:44
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FF superbosses are never hard. They're mostly just tedious. You very rarely need to plan to beat them, just be able to shell out and/or take a certain amount of damage.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:50
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ImpAtom posted:FF superbosses are never hard. They're mostly just tedious. You very rarely need to plan to beat them, just be able to shell out and/or take a certain amount of damage. This defines Yiazmat. Took me three days to beat him - with gambits my team was pretty good to be left alone, on occasion I'd have to step in and replace dead members. (Probably would have taken one day if I didn't have things like work and sleep to contend with.)
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Apr 3, 2014 01:50
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Systematic System posted:You needed to do the same two-hour as him within a very small window, which was made even smaller by the fact that all the servers were located in Japan. Unfortunately locking his abilities was only one part of killing him: when you brought him down to 60% (bracelet mode) he gained access to a super-powered up Meteor regardless of two-hour status and could wipe the alliance on a whim without any two-hour. Also he had extremely high auto-regen (which could be partially negated), and the most defense of any monster in the game. It is entirely worth mentioning that "legitimate" kills of AV just didn't happen until his HP got lowered with the post-PW difficulty change, and players got access to the Alexander summon which gave you 90% damage reduction for ~30 seconds, so he could be zerged down. Pandemonium Warden, naturally, never got a "legitimate" kill before his 18+ hour form was nerfed; afterwards he became something of a speed run, requiring your group to go balls-to-the-wall on offense for a solid 2 hours or you just run out of time and he despawns. Naturally, his last form also devolved down to Use Alexander And Zerg because he just throws too much damage at you. I'm going to give SE the benefit of the doubt here: the idea behind the first version of PW was that he had straight up 20 different forms, each mimicking a different endgame fight, each being more powerful than the boss it is copying. From the three legitimate attempts that made any kind of progress it was noted that the order of the forms could be different and it seemed like a couple forms were skipped in one case. This never got tested out because, naturally, we got the marathon fight making the news and that was it as far as old PW was concerned, all those mechanics got trashed. I think SE never intended people to try to cut their way through all his forms, but to use some obscure mechanic to cut the fight time down. But that remains stupid as there are more obvious ways to tell players they're doing a fight wrong. These were the kind of decisions that SE was making in FFXI, where your pinnacle endgame raid boss was literally so broken that no group anywhere could kill it requiring you to basically scrap whatever you had designed and come up with a less stupid version. Even then, your less stupid version remained stupid because the only real viable strategy was "arbitrarily Become Invincible and skip mechanics by throwing bodies". It's a good thing, really, that they didn't bother to add that kind of boss to the last two expansions. Yet, anyway. A doubly good thing that this kind of design philosophy doesn't get within 200 miles of what they're doing in FFXIV. Again, yet.
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