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jBrereton posted:Shame that's much less effective. Yes it is. Archers beep boop locking onto a target and walking into melee to die is just dumb as hell.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:38
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TheDemon posted:You can't script the same for every fight. In fact good expansion means knowing the ins and outs of every indep type and using that knowledge to select the right targets in the right order, rescripting and even merging armies as appropriate. Can you give some more examples of this? It's pretty bullshit that you're just expected to figure this out yourself, especially since no two provinces have the same army composition and there's no way of knowing how they're going to deploy their troops.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:45
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disregard im idiot
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Apr 3, 2014 23:50
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Jabarto posted:Can you give some more examples of this? It's pretty bullshit that you're just expected to figure this out yourself, especially since no two provinces have the same army composition and there's no way of knowing how they're going to deploy their troops. Welcome to dominions, please have fun in our wonderful single player for a few hours before you're comfortable expanding properly.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:57
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Eschatos posted:
What blesses did you use?
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Apr 4, 2014 00:03
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Jabarto posted:Can you give some more examples of this? It's pretty bullshit that you're just expected to figure this out yourself, especially since no two provinces have the same army composition and there's no way of knowing how they're going to deploy their troops. The thing you have to learn about Dominions is that there are always a lot of guesswork needed for any game. There are so many unknown or random variables that you have to be able to adapt and change your plans to suit the moment. To be clear for all noobs, there is no canned, pre-planned strategy for you to follow that will ever be any good. There are general strategies like how to build your pretender, or what pattern you try to expand in, or what schools of magic are good to priotize, but always remember that everything is subject to change. Trying to plan out specific, in-depth strategies for either the general game or battle scripting is a futile endeavor. In the end you will have to analyze the situation and think on your feet if you want to win, and you have to be able accept that sometimes you will lose no matter how well you play because the deck was stacked against you.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:45
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Shachar posted:What blesses did you use? F9W9E4
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Apr 4, 2014 02:12
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Chomp8645 posted:In the end you will have to analyze the situation and think on your feet if you want to win But that's my point; most strategy games allow you to do some sort of intelligence gathering, or issue battle commands to deal with emerging situations - you know, strategy things. In Dominions, there's no information (you get a rough idea of what the enemy composition is and that's it) and no ability to influence anything. You can't know how far apart your armies will be when they engage, you can't know which troops will clash first, and you can't react to anything once the battle starts. All you can do is blindly throw your army at theirs and pray. I'm not asking for a canned strategy, I'm asking how you even begin to guess with so little information.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:14
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Jabarto posted:Can you give some more examples of this? It's pretty bullshit that you're just expected to figure this out yourself, especially since no two provinces have the same army composition and there's no way of knowing how they're going to deploy their troops. Jabarto posted:But that's my point; most strategy games allow you to do some sort of intelligence gathering, or issue battle commands to deal with emerging situations - you know, strategy things. In Dominions, there's no information (you get a rough idea of what the enemy composition is and that's it) and no ability to influence anything. You can't know how far apart your armies will be when they engage, you can't know which troops will clash first, and you can't react to anything once the battle starts. All you can do is blindly throw your army at theirs and pray. For independents specifically, this isn't true. Each independent province falls into a category which sets what type of units they have. Each of these categories has strenghts and weaknesses that can be exploited using scripting. Xbows + Heavy Cavalry is different than Archers + Heavy Infantry is different than Barbarians is different than Wolf Tribe is different than Bear Tribe. Even though you don't know the exact quantity of enemies (and frankly, you can learn this too, by scout attacking with retreat orders, something you can do from turn 1). Furthermore, battle placements are not random either. The indeps always place their squads near the center of their side of the battle map, and the battle map is a fixed size. Experienced players can usually predict who will get in the first melee strike based on their own placements and the ap rate and ranged weapon status of each unit in question. For indep types: Question 1: Is there a dangerous melee unit? Examples: Wolf Tribe Warriors (dual daggers), Barbarians, Heavy Cavalry, Knights, Crystal Amazons, Lizards Question 2: Does the enemy carry shields? Examples: Heavy Infantry, Jaguar Tribe, Heavy Cavalry Question 3: Are the enemy ranged units a danger to anything of yours? Examples: Xbows, Longbows, Slings, Woodsmen Question 4: Does this poptype contain mages? Examples: Lizard Shamans, Bloodhenge Druids (hidden by Woodsmen sometimes) Then you determine a strategy for the likely enemy composition taking into account its weaknesses (barbs have no shields, neither do wolf tribe, crystal amazons will fly their best troops in, slings can be drawn out as they're short range, bloodhenge will need two attacks one with chaff to waste their slaves, lizard shamans will Curse so never use SCs or giants but they have no shields, high enc units are vulnerable to long battles and high damage weapons) When fightning non-independents, this kind of predicting is much more difficult, but there are many more intelligence tools available to you as well. Scouts are the most crucial, and good scouting can spot the enemy army fighting battles. Without scouts, you can learn exact army composition by sacrificing a province and its PD to do so. By seeing how enemy mages behave off-script, you get a good idea of the spells available to them, which lets you guess the enemy research. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:30
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Jabarto posted:But that's my point; most strategy games allow you to do some sort of intelligence gathering, or issue battle commands to deal with emerging situations - you know, strategy things. In Dominions, there's no information (you get a rough idea of what the enemy composition is and that's it) and no ability to influence anything. You can't know how far apart your armies will be when they engage, you can't know which troops will clash first, and you can't react to anything once the battle starts. All you can do is blindly throw your army at theirs and pray. A lot of the "information" you get will have to come from inference and playing the player. For example in Kiddie Pool I'm playing as Jomon, a nation well known for it's bitching but expensive Samurai. I was fighting Mictlan, a nation for their crazy bless Jaguars who are extremely tough and have blood vengeance, which if you don't know returns some damage to the person who hits them. Our first battle went ok but I lost a hell of a lot of dudes for the amount I killed. So what I did was inspect Jaguars (hint, use the mod inspector tool!), and this is what I saw. http://dom4editor.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/inspector/index.html?page=unit&unitq=jaguar%20warrior&showids=1 Keep in mind that in addition to the listed stats the Jaguars will extra HP, regeneration, and damage return from their bless effect. Do you see the weakness? The only major hole in a jaguar's defenses is their protection. They don't have very much armor and they don't carry shields, which means arrows will particularly effective against them. So instead of fielding Samurai I started attackinghim with a poo poo load of cheap indie archers screen by Ashigaru (who have good armor and long weapons that help repel attacks. The Ashigaru would hold the line as long as possible while the archers won the battle through mass attrition. I was probably losing 5-6 archers for each Jaguar but scales Jomon can take that kind of attrition, bless Mictlan cannot not, especially because sacred units like Jaguars can only be recruited in limited numbers. To counter, Mictlan started putting a bunch of warriors with shields in front of his jaguars as a screen, and since my archers were set to "Fire closest" I quickly lost the next battle since most of my arrows flew uselessly into waiting shields. Then I started scripting my archers to just "Fire" with no specific target. As a unintended consequence not only were they no longer most most of their shots against shielded warriors, but they started picking off some mages as well. This dance will often go back and forth between two players. With counter upon counter being used. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say to "think on your feet". Unfortunately for the first battle against a given opponent you will usually have to wing it and just come up with the best plan you can and then cross your fingers. But even before first contact use the mod inspector to see the general strengths and weaknesses of your enemy. It's a great tool that everyone should use. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:35
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Jabarto posted:But that's my point; most strategy games allow you to do some sort of intelligence gathering, or issue battle commands to deal with emerging situations - you know, strategy things. In Dominions, there's no information (you get a rough idea of what the enemy composition is and that's it) and no ability to influence anything. You can't know how far apart your armies will be when they engage, you can't know which troops will clash first, and you can't react to anything once the battle starts. All you can do is blindly throw your army at theirs and pray. Attack with a scout with retreat orders. You will get a ~100% accurate report of what's going on when it comes to indies, at least. You do know how far apart your armies are at that point. You do know what's going to clash first in a bunch of cases (for example, Barbarian leaders tend to charge at the front of their formations and die really quickly, routing them; armies composed of Light and Heavy infantry are going to have the Lights hit first unless they have javelins; Amazon cavalry always hits first). Your ability to influence things comes at the planning stage. It's not about praying, it's about knowing how the game works at all, and understanding that everyone is operating under the same constraints.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:46
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Jabarto posted:But that's my point; most strategy games allow you to do some sort of intelligence gathering, or issue battle commands to deal with emerging situations - you know, strategy things. In Dominions, there's no information (you get a rough idea of what the enemy composition is and that's it) and no ability to influence anything. You can't know how far apart your armies will be when they engage, you can't know which troops will clash first, and you can't react to anything once the battle starts. All you can do is blindly throw your army at theirs and pray. You actually have plenty of ways to do intelligence gathering, including spending your early scout's first few moves attacking enemy independents (script him to retreat immediately) which will give you a full battle report with exact enemy troop numbers and positions. The key point here is that you don't get this intelligence for free - it has an opportunity cost and most advanced players will usually try to play as efficiently as possible. I can say from personal experience that super efficient skin-of-your-teeth expansion works great until you run into a random indy mage with a skull talisman or some other form of :dominions: Part of the joy of dominions though is that, when you're actually playing against humans, you are both playing a limited information game with lots of counterplay. Even if you do scout your opponent, nothing can stop your opponent from feeding you false information, rearranging their formations or teleporting in units. TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:59
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4.05 is going to come out soon, but not with the big Caelum update, that's being saved for later.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:08
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Excellent they're going to fix\upgrade those nation-specific event chains, that'll be neat.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:19
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Illwinter posted:The biggest new feature is the story event mode that enables random events that requires more interaction than usual and/or has really powerful effects. It's still a beta feature, so don't enable it in serious multiplayer games. So, I guess this means there will be a rash of new Goon games with this feature turned on before anyone even gets to try it out in SP. I support this and can't wait to see what new hilarity is in store for us.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:20
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Larz posted:So, I guess this means there will be a rash of new Goon games with this feature turned on before anyone even gets to try it out in SP. I support this and can't wait to see what new hilarity is in store for us. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 13:47
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Has there been an updated hosting guide for Dom4? The one in PGS is outdated. I'm looking to host a game for a non-goon forum, so I don't think I can just use the goon service, right?
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Apr 4, 2014 14:23
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jBrereton posted:Better keep it out of our MLG streamed games, though (note: I would love to see this happen. BIG PLAYS in the Pretender creation screen and so on. Pocket F9 Yomi Strats, you name it). Quick im making my videos now and i need to know optimum wubs per minutes (WPM) for sick communion battles and then merc recruitment screens.
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Apr 4, 2014 14:30
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WaterIsPoison posted:Has there been an updated hosting guide for Dom4? The one in PGS is outdated. I'm looking to host a game for a non-goon forum, so I don't think I can just use the goon service, right? Curious about this too, since I hate having to bug someone else to host whenever I want to play with just a few friends.
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Apr 4, 2014 15:34
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LordLeckie posted:Quick im making my videos now and i need to know optimum wubs per minutes (WPM) for sick communion battles and then merc recruitment screens.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:21
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WaterIsPoison posted:Has there been an updated hosting guide for Dom4? The one in PGS is outdated. I'm looking to host a game for a non-goon forum, so I don't think I can just use the goon service, right? It isn't really hard to put a server up. The GGS is just an interface so people can easily reserve their nation and see the connection info all in one place. If you already have a static IP, you should be able to just click Setup a Dominions Server ingame and select an open port, then give the players your IP and the port. I can't upload maps for some reason so if that happens for you, either use a stock map or upload one to a free hosting. Configure your game settings (turn off 'Clients may start the game', turn on renaming, give yourself a master password, rest is up to you) and wait for everyone to upload their pretenders, start the game, and keep your computer up for as long as you want people able to put their turns in. If you want to play in the game yourself, open a new window of Dom4 and connect to yourself.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:46
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For the people looking to host a Dom4 server on Linux, here's a script that Tenjou uses: Pastebin If you're decent with Linux and have a VPS or something, it's pretty easy to host.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:49
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How do Steam updates work with multiplayer games, since Steam just automatically updates the game?
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Apr 5, 2014 10:36
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Usually everyone rushes to connect after they patch which means, as tenjou has to manually patch from desura, all the games crash because of version mismatches, and tenjou has to run around trying to fix everything
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Apr 5, 2014 12:34
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There's a Dominions 4? It's on Steam? It's not absurdly expensive?! Well, there goes twenty quid.
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Apr 5, 2014 13:41
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Saith posted:There's a Dominions 4? The game have been in several 50% and 75% off sales. You could have bought it even cheaper  .
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Apr 5, 2014 14:02
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Turin Turambar posted:The game have been in several 50% and 75% off sales. You could have bought it even cheaper  e: The game's pretty rad though. Seems more user friendly, though I'm not exactly sure how.
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Apr 5, 2014 14:25
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TOOT BOOT posted:How do Steam updates work with multiplayer games, since Steam just automatically updates the game? It seems that game will work even if you copy the folder outside of Steam.
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Apr 5, 2014 14:48
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Though realistically what happens is someone gets autopatched and uploads a turn to whatever server they're on, crashing it til it gets updated.
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Apr 5, 2014 14:53
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Awesome Midgame 0.01 Not gonna be released version So I have decided to do a mod kinda like awesome endgame but much more focused on the middle game, and some things i've wanted The primary focus will be expanding summoning spells, most would be more useful if they just gave bonus dudes for high levels, I intend to fix that, but first I made holy boosting items plentiful, construction 6 and one for each path (other than holy you can't forge holy), some changes will be done on them to tweak (helmet and armor will be real armor and hat) but they will all be there. (also path level 4 the 1 is for testing) Fire  Air  Water  Earth  Astral  Nature  Death  Blood  Comments Welcome
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Apr 5, 2014 15:13
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It might make more sense to switch the serpent crown and the Power of Greyskull, since Nature deals with poison and Death deals with undead more often.
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Apr 5, 2014 15:22
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:It might make more sense to switch the serpent crown and the Power of Greyskull, since Nature deals with poison and Death deals with undead more often. Errr I hosed up putting the paths right, The sword is supposed to be Death.
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Apr 5, 2014 15:38
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Turin Turambar posted:The game have been in several 50% and 75% off sales. You could have bought it even cheaper Unfortunately I too just discovered this game after getting Conquest of Elysium 3 on sale and am debating paying full price for it when I know that it was just on sale for $8.75 a couple days ago. The cheap part of me wants to wait just on principle, while the nice part of me wants to support an indie developer that seems to be doing something that I like. I'm torn.
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Apr 5, 2014 15:49
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Wigglyben posted:Unfortunately I too just discovered this game after getting Conquest of Elysium 3 on sale and am debating paying full price for it when I know that it was just on sale for $8.75 a couple days ago. The cheap part of me wants to wait just on principle, while the nice part of me wants to support an indie developer that seems to be doing something that I like. I'm torn. I've bought it at full price for 4 people and my self, no regrets.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:23
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AtomikKrab posted:I've bought it at full price for 4 people and my self, no regrets. ive bought four copies and it was worth it probably.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:31
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Wigglyben posted:Unfortunately I too just discovered this game after getting Conquest of Elysium 3 on sale and am debating paying full price for it when I know that it was just on sale for $8.75 a couple days ago. The cheap part of me wants to wait just on principle, while the nice part of me wants to support an indie developer that seems to be doing something that I like. I'm torn. Do whatever you want. I happened to buy the game for $30 like two days before it went on sale. On the one hand saving some money would have been nice, but on the other I can honestly say that this game was $30 well spent.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:08
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Chomp8645 posted:Do whatever you want. I happened to buy the game for $30 like two days before it went on sale. On the one hand saving some money would have been nice, but on the other I can honestly say that this game was $30 well spent. Yeah I'll probably get it next pay period. I've been reading/watching LPs and I want to get destroyed in some MP games.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:11
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AtomikKrab posted:Awesome Midgame 0.01 Not gonna be released version Im guessing those are just placeholder prices but autocast fanaticism and divine blessing seem stupidly good.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:30
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LordLeckie posted:Im guessing those are just placeholder prices but autocast fanaticism and divine blessing seem stupidly good. the post you quoted says they will cost 20 gems each
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Apr 5, 2014 17:43
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The water one is shoes. There are quite a lot of aquatic priests without feet. I don't know if that's intentional or not.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:04
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