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So I think I'll make bacon when I get the chance, but is potassium nitrite ok for the job? I don't know about where I would get pink curing salt, but I have this in my pantry: I mean, yeah, it says homemade bacon mix on the packet, but is there really much difference between potassium nitrite and sodium nitrite that would make me want to find the actual stuff in the Ruhlman's cure? I'm going to guess the MSG would just make the bacon more tasty.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:35
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yoshesque posted:So I think I'll make bacon when I get the chance, but is potassium nitrite ok for the job? I don't know about where I would get pink curing salt, but I have this in my pantry: You can use potassium nitrite like you would sodium nitrite. The original curing salt for millennia was potassium nitrate (saltpeter) so make of that what you will.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:20
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A mixture of sugar and potassium nitrite would be pretty flammable, right? Or at least make lots of white smoke if you light it.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:16
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"Ready to eat 30 minutes after application" lolwat, I would not use that stuff. It's a pre-made blend with MSG, whatever you wanted to cure with it probably wouldn't taste quite right. I'd suggest ordering some DQ cure #1 on Amazon, 1lb is like 12-13bux.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:30
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You can use that if you choose, but know that it isn't curing powder. Just as baking powder contains baking soda, you wouldn't substitute the former for the latter. At best it is a brining mix, and at worst, it is a ready-mix flavoring. Though, I would probably still give it a try with something simple and cheap; just to see what you're dealing with. It won't give you bacon, but it could give you a hammy-tasting pork chop. Or hammy-tasting chicken legs. Or hammy-tasting anything, really. Saltpeter and MSG will taste like ham no matter what you put it on. Ham lettuce, anyone? When you salt cure a piece of meat for a week or longer, there are chemical processes that take place that can't be rushed in the home-chef kitchen. Yes, Oscar Meyer can cure a belly in about 2 hours. We can't. One of the most notable changes is that the proteins in the meat and connective tissue begin to denature and unravel and relax. With a pork belly, this is wildly important, because without it, eating the belly would be like eating a shoe. When you cure bacon, you are also in a sense tenderizing it. Though, you could just slice the bacon paper-thin when you are done and it would have the illusion of tenderness (like Oscar Meyer does) but thin bacon is sad bacon. Rushing curing to two or three days, and you would have an unhappy meal. 30 minutes would definitely be a lolwat? situation. That being said... the red flag really is the MSG. I don't buy for a second the whole 'MSG gives cancer/ulcers/headaches' baloney, (I do use MSG in other food) but I do know that they are using it to fool your taste buds into thinking you have a cured product. High intensity salts like MSG have no place in curing/preserving meats. At least, no place in amateur curing. Also, any curing product with an expiration date... ... Though I don't know much about Southeast Asian food, I think their use of the word 'bacon' here may just be a 'closest approximation translation' and is not the cured/smoked pork belly you are envisioning. tl;dr: do not substitute that into a bacon recipe as curing salt. It will do nothing but make your food taste not like what it is supposed to. Use it for something else.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:17
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I think that stuff contains only about 15grams of salt per 100g so you could use it as a flavouring but you will probably need a lot of additional salt to effectively (and safely) cure anything.
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Mar 18, 2014 15:23
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:A mixture of sugar and potassium nitrite would be pretty flammable, right? Or at least make lots of white smoke if you light it. Potassium nitrAte I think. Not sure that nitrIte would cut it. We used to mix up sugar and potassium nitrate with a little bit of binder and cast it in cheap paper tubes to make rockets and poo poo. (I was a huge pyro as a kid).
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Mar 18, 2014 15:36
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Breaky posted:Potassium nitrAte I think. Not sure that nitrIte would cut it. Yeah I couldn't remember which I used, or if I had used both, but they were great for smoke bombs.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:10
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:A mixture of sugar and potassium nitrite would be pretty flammable, right? Or at least make lots of white smoke if you light it. Yes. If you overheat a crucible of this mixture in your backyard with a blowtorch you will send a mushroom cloud past the window next to which your parents are having a dinner party. Both nitrate and nitrite are oxidizers so either should work. pr0k fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 18:02
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pr0k posted:Yes. If you overheat a crucible of this mixture in your backyard with a blowtorch you will send a mushroom cloud past the window next to which your parents are having a dinner party. Or melt a hole right through the 5lb solid glass ashtray you lit them in, subsequently burning a hole through the coffee table below that and a good portion of the carpet...  (It is a total mystery how I survived past the age of 12)
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Mar 18, 2014 18:34
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Quickly, someone make thermite bacon and light it on fire. This is for science.
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Mar 19, 2014 04:34
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Breaky posted:Or melt a hole right through the 5lb solid glass ashtray you lit them in, subsequently burning a hole through the coffee table below that and a good portion of the carpet... It will also leave a permanent scorch mark if you just dump the mixture on the sidewalk in front of the shed and light it there. Mom will be hella pissed.
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Mar 19, 2014 19:18
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I'm trying the corned beef cure from Charcuterie, and it calls for a 5 lb brisket. I made the brine to the recipe and put the beef in before realizing that the piece my wife bought was actually 3 lbs. Should I be concerned? Should I remove it a little early? It called for 5 days, which will be tomorrow evening. Or will it be fine to leave in until tomorrow night?
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Mar 21, 2014 04:46
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Should be fine, probably pull it out on day 3.
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Mar 21, 2014 05:06
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Is there any way to know when corned beef is ready to be cooked? I have 3 lbs going right now also, the butcher I bought it from said the time can vary from 4-10 days based on fat content.
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Mar 21, 2014 09:41
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Pulling it early will be fine. An even better, albeit more work intensive, option would be to pull it early, wait a day, then put it back in for a half day. Salt equilibrium is all you are looking for here and by taking it a little slow, you will have much more control over what you want to get in the end. Alternatively, you could leave it in for 4 days, then let it sit for a day in the fridge, no brine. Both will get you where you need to go. Curing time also varies on thickness, as the cure will take longer to reach the interior of a thick piece than a thin piece. It simply has longer to go with a fixed rate of travel. The fat slows things down because lipids and water don't like each other all that well and will resist osmosis, which is the process that carries salt inwards. The way to tell when a piece of wet-brined/cured meat is ready for the next step is the feel of it. When the meat is ready, it should be firm but yielding. Most common examples of correct feel are soccer balls or volley balls. If it still feels raw, like a jell-o filled balloon, you need to wait a little longer. If it feels like an (American) football or basketball, you've gone too far. I know 'the feel of it' is very subjective and is very reliant on experience, but I don't know of another way for wet-brining that doesn't require salinity meters or other laboratory equipment. At least with dry cure you can use weight, but not here. You're stuck with the hocus-pocus method. With corned beef, I would always err on the side of over-brining it. As once you are done brining it, you will then be simmering it for a good 2-3 hours. That will draw some of the salt back out of the meat. Ultimately, don't fear. Chances are your beef will still turn out just fine, if not awesome. Charcuterie is a lot like brewing beer. So long as you clean everything and you follow the recipe mostly, it is actually pretty drat hard to screw it up. The product will still be great, though it may not be something you could buy in a store. Similarly, like brewing beer, if you want to mimic a perfect copy of a Pilsner Urquell, or a perfect Jamon Ibirico, or other highly-specific thing, you need to pay attention to every single detail, both ingredient and process. And even a tiny mistake will net you anywhere from 'an imposter' to 'unrecognizable'. But that doesn't mean it is in any way 'bad tasting'.
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Mar 21, 2014 15:09
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I've cured a corned beef (point cut) and didn't let it cure long enough. You get a corned beef roast with a roast beef cylinder in the middle. Still good, but looks a little funny.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:05
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So my 3lb-brisket-in-5lbs-of-brine came out on Saturday morning, approximately 4.5 days. Rinsed, then into the slow cooker for 8 hours on low with fresh water and more pickling spice. It turned out pretty great, if a tiny bit saltier and drier than I would have liked. Definitely "corned beef color" throughout, and it fell apart predictably after cooking. A+ would corn again.
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Mar 24, 2014 23:21
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sirbeefalot posted:So my 3lb-brisket-in-5lbs-of-brine came out on Saturday morning, approximately 4.5 days. Rinsed, then into the slow cooker for 8 hours on low with fresh water and more pickling spice. CORN THAT BEEF! And now that you have experience and confidence, just think how great your next one will be... 
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Mar 25, 2014 16:24
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I have been making corned beef with multiple smaller roasts in a bag. I leave them in brine untill I want to eat. Then I just pop one out and cook it. Some have sat in brine for almost a month. Still tasted great. I have two ziplocks with eight roasts in the fridge now. You can take soak it in water over night if you are worried about them being too salty.
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Mar 28, 2014 01:46
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That works fine when that is what you plan and compensate for. If you just use a regular 5-day brine, you may regret leaving them in indefinitely. It may oversalt, and you can only pull so much of it back out, and over-cured meats tend to be dry and chewy. (that may be what you want, but maybe not) There are maths that you can do to see exactly how much salt you should put in a brine for an indefinite brine, and I would imagine there are recipes just for that. But really, if you want to try it, just cut back the salt a little bit. Not too much, mind you, or it won't preserve. Just test and be ready for things to be slightly different than a time-specific recipe. Of course, you could give us your recipe... I would love to try it out, and if it indeed works as claimed, and my fears assuaged, it sounds like a great technique. also: I did Tjälknöl again. Man it's good. A few slices served cold with some pickled beets and boozy mead? I feel like swinging a skeggöx into my enemies face! 
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Mar 28, 2014 15:16
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I've got three different types of bacon going In my fridge using Ruhlmans dry cure, plain, maple and savory. I did them with a 5% of cure by weight to pork belly ratio since it wasn't one giant piece and my wife and I wanted to play with different flavors. That's the right percentage isn't it?
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Apr 2, 2014 16:04
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5% is spot on.
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Apr 2, 2014 16:34
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holttho posted:5% is spot on. Cool thanks.
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Apr 2, 2014 17:47
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I've got 10lbs of belly curing in the fridge with Ruhlman's cure as well. This is my second batch, and the first batch was incredible. I have a good, long meat slicer, but still was having trouble getting consistent cuts with the first 5lbs I did. I am not looking forward to slicing this new 10lbs. Any tips? Take it to my local butcher/deli and bribe them into running it all through the machine?
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Apr 2, 2014 18:02
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Doom Rooster posted:Take it to my local butcher/deli and bribe them into running it all through the machine? If I wasn't fortunate enough to have a deli slicer, this would be my first idea. I've never attempted it nor have I heard of anyone actually doing it, but I sure have made the suggestion before. If I were to ask, I'd make it clear that I just want it sliced, not packaged. I could see places turning you away if they assume you also want it nicely packaged because of the additional effort and material. It doesnt hurt to offer a couple bucks and some free bacon too.
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Apr 2, 2014 18:18
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If you have a local, home-style butcher that you already have a good relationship with, they'll probably hook you up. Toss in a sawbuck or two for his trouble. But, a big chain style butcher, meat department, or just simply someone that doesn't know you will not cut any meat for you for legal reasons. If the safety boards find out they're putting unknown meats on their cutters, big trouble. If you want to sell food to the public at large, everything that touches the food has to be FDA inspected and approved; most notably the tools. As they can't guarantee the sanitation of your prep methods, it's against the law for them to assist you. Or at least, they open themselves to lawsuit. I've asked about four places and every one of them turned me down outright. And not very politely, either. For slicing meats by hand without them getting away from you, just make sure they are thoroughly chilled (from completely refrigerator temp to 15 min in the freezer will do you well.) and get your sharpest, longest knife. Also, the thinnest you can reasonably cut bacon while still keeping it even from end to end is maybe, maybe 3/16". 1/4" is pretty reasonable. Unless you have Jacques Pepin level knife skills, any thinner and you're pretty much guaranteed to turn it to uneven ribbons. Make a shallow guide cut along the top that's just there to hold the blade in line; just something you can help eyeball along. Then use the longest stroke you can to ideally slice in one shot. The more you monkey about with it, it can only go down hill. I find after a few slices you get a rhythm going and it shouldn't take more than about 10-15 minutes to slice up a whole pigs worth of bacon.
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Apr 2, 2014 21:06
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A few days ago I put a pork tenderloin into a regular bacon cure. I was hoping to make filetto/mini-lonza, but now I'm not sure if that was the right way to cure it before hanging it up to dry. Will it be edible if I hang it up until it loses 30% of it's weight? Or should I have used a dry cure more similar to the duck breast prosciutto method?
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Apr 3, 2014 08:29
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I've done a brined filleto. Turned out fine. Be mindful of your humidity though, pork tenders are so lean they'll dry on the outside super easily.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:08
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:I've done a brined filleto. Turned out fine. Be mindful of your humidity though, pork tenders are so lean they'll dry on the outside super easily. What is this filleto you are speaking of. I can't find anything on google really.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:37
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goodness posted:What is this filleto you are speaking of. I can't find anything on google really. Looks like filetto is dry cured pork tenderloin similar to lonza- http://meatgeek.co.uk/dry-cured-pork-fillet/ I finally found a good source for duck breast and picked up some this afternoon. Inaugural recipe for my new curing chamber will be duck prosciutto, but if I have room I'll throw some filetto in there as well.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:29
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MiTEG posted:Looks like filetto is dry cured pork tenderloin similar to lonza- Interesting. I found frozen duck breasts, I think it was 4 for like 20-30$. Maybe that is good, idk.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:43
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goodness posted:Interesting.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:46
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feelz good man posted:You should be able to find people raising ducks around you for $10-15 apiece. Look on craigslist. Buy some happy ducks instead! I don't think I could kill and break down a duck. Not at that stage of food loving yet.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:06
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It won't be alive when you get it. It'll look just like it came from the grocery store. If anything, the plucking is the hard part, not the killing. Killing just takes a hard heart, plucking takes specialized equipment.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:05
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Killing is easy, you just sharpen a cleaver until it can shave your arm.Chef De Cuisinart posted:I've done a brined filleto. Turned out fine. Be mindful of your humidity though, pork tenders are so lean they'll dry on the outside super easily. He's not kidding, I left my filetti up for just under three weeks in my too-dry basement and they came out drier than I wanted.  Still delicious though.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:19
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I just found that the local william-sonoma has pink curing salt, so tonight after my daughter's birthday part I am going to pick some up, and tomorrow morning pick up some Pork belly from the butcher to make bacon. YUM! never tried it before, but i think its going to come out fantastic.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:49
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Martello posted:Killing is easy, you just sharpen a cleaver until it can shave your arm. Gorgeous shot of that, looks amazing.
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Apr 5, 2014 21:42
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This is pretty gorgeous. Those little caps of fat are to die for. That's what I look for when I make this sort of thing. Makes me think I should do a lonzino here fairly soon. I did just buy another belly for some pancetta, but that's not really news. What is news is that while buying said belly, I decided, on a whim, to get some hog casings. A full pound of them, to be exact. Which, according to the butcher, should be enough for 100-some-odd pounds of sausage. I am super pumped, though don't know exactly what I'm gonna do with them yet. As this'll be my first foray into stuffing casings, I'll probably keep it simple with an assortment of brat/italian/polish/banger type sausages. After this, then I'll move into some dry-cured stuff. Fortunately, as long as they stay cold and in their bag, they last for years. If anyone has any good recipes, I would love to try them out and report back. Cimber posted:I just found that the local william-sonoma has pink curing salt, so tonight after my daughter's birthday part I am going to pick some up, and tomorrow morning pick up some Pork belly from the butcher to make bacon. YUM! Dive right on in, buddy! Like pretty much all of us have said at some point in this thread: it's actually fairly hard to screw it up; especially if you follow a recipe. Just enjoy the process and it will pay out in spades.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:23
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Thanks holttho. I could not wait to start for today, so I actually started it last night. I sort of used a recipe based on the 1st post, but varied a bit based on some other feedback. I started off the rub with 1 cup brown sugar, 1/2 cup kosher salt, 3/4ths teaspoon pink salt.  I then added about two tablespoons Chipotle rub I have used for other BBQ that I liked for the finishing of the spices. I did not add anything else. I got my pork belly from my local butcher but it was kind of expensive at 45 bucks for 7 pounds. Unfortunately that was the smallest he had and he said he could not sell me a smaller chunk because the rest would be unsellable. Next time I'll shop around a bit, but I was enthusiastic to get started. I am using half, and have frozen the other half for later. I made sure to make a nice even rectangle, and pealed off all the membrane I found on the meat side   I then placed the meat into a casserole dish and rubbed the salt mixture on firmly for a good five minutes. Every bit of the meat was covered with salt.  I then placed it into a gallon Ziploc bag and stuck it in the refrigerator overnight. This is what I saw this morning after about 9 hours of sitting:  That was a surprising amount of liquid on the inside of the bag! This evening after I flipped it, I found even more!  Its going to be very hard to wait until next Sunday to smoke this sucker, but I'll do it somehow. I am REALLY excited to taste this stuff.
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Apr 7, 2014 03:11
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