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Bass Bottles posted:I've played through Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion on an HDTV and they looked fine. As long as you keep the right aspect ratio and disable that "blurring" effect they just look like indie games. In other words they look like crap.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:59
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Old games look just fine on large HDTVs as long as they're scaled in a way that preserves pixel clarity, which the GBA and SNES games are.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:12
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Old games look just fine on large HDTVs as long as you play in windowed mode 
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Apr 5, 2014 06:46
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The VC scaling have always looked great to me. Just remember that there is always that vocal person that claims stuff like how he needs to play his DS games on his 3DS in native resolution mode because the upscaling makes it look like someone took a dump on the screen making it unplayable.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:20
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It's pretty low res but some games work around that with aesthetic. When you're playing Metroid Fusion it just looks like a more vibrant Super Metroid... but then Mario & Luigi has some pretty large chunky pixel tiling and you really notice it.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:41
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Astro7x posted:The VC scaling have always looked great to me. Just remember that there is always that vocal person that claims stuff like how he needs to play his DS games on his 3DS in native resolution mode because the upscaling makes it look like someone took a dump on the screen making it unplayable. DS to 3DS doesn't scale cleanly (256*192 to 320*240) so that vocal person is probably right
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Apr 5, 2014 10:00
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Individual blurred/blended pixels are much more noticeable at a low resolution viewed up close than at a large resolution viewed from a distance. That's why you can scale to 6.75 times the GBA resolution onto an HDTV and still have it look OK if you handle it right, while scaling to 1.25 times the DS resolution on a 3DS looks pretty crappy. M2 did a good job being attentive to how to best present GBA games in HD, and even provided multiple scaling options. You can talk about the pricing, but there's definitely no basis for a rant about how the games can't possibly look good.
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Apr 5, 2014 10:08
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SatoshiMiwa posted:I expected closer to NES pricing and maybe SNES prices on premium games, but 8 across the board is just bizarrely stupid. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised at Nintendo stupidity really.... Most GBA games from Nintendo are exceedingly more polished and content rich games then their SNES games. Why would they be less than SNES games? They're better, typically longer games with better graphics. The three released so far, Metroid Fusion, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, and Advance Wars are better than 95% of the SNES library and definitely worth $8.
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Apr 5, 2014 13:24
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Skyscraper posted:You've got some great info in this post, but I think you've missed the point of what I'm talking about. I think that exclusives do drive sales, very much so, particularly hardware. If you have numbers on why a PC port would not be profitable for any specific games (for the developers), I'd be interested to read them. Well you have the two options, which also roughly correlate to microsoft and sonys stance on exclusives: either you do a microsoft and offer the developers a guaranteed payment in exchange for exclusivity in addition to money made on sales on that platform. This can be huge numbers, hence why developers would go for it, as it will make them more money than multiplatform and/or its a sure thing. The other option is a sony: in house/second party developers where it makes literally no financial sense to be porting your games to your competitors consoles/platforms. It would not be profitable in this situation for sony to make PC ports of their exclusives as they then miss out on making literally all the money from the game sale (in house dev, sony published, sony owned console), as well as the higher price point and the pushing of hardware sales. Nevermind the fact that such studios are not going to have the resources in place already to make PC ports, they are single platform developers and so would need to expand/spend more time to port things over. In both cases the extra revenue, either from an exclusivity payment or from in house development and publishing onto a platform which typically keeps game values higher for longer, outweigh the cost of creating a PC port and the sales resulting from that as well as the increased competition eating into profits (you might sell more copies of the game, but it will also lower sales of your hardware, which will then lose you that sweet software revenue on your platform, as well as lower attach rates). greatn posted:Most GBA games from Nintendo are exceedingly more polished and content rich games then their SNES games. Why would they be less than SNES games? They're better, typically longer games with better graphics. The three released so far, Metroid Fusion, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, and Advance Wars are better than 95% of the SNES library and definitely worth $8. Metroid Fusion: famous for being exceedingly more polished and content rich than Super Metroid, as well as longer and with better graphics 
Stux fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 15:15
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Almost nothing tops Super Metroid, but Fusion is of similar length, is a more polished game with better controls and a more fleshed out narrative, and whether the graphics are better is up to personal taste. I think they are given all the artwork and more detailed backgrounds. It's not a better game overall due to its linearity, but it is clearly better than most SNES games and more advanced generally.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:44
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Metroid Fusion isn't as good of a Metroid game as Super Metroid but it is far and away a much more fun game.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:18
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greatn posted:Almost nothing tops Super Metroid, but Fusion is of similar length, is a more polished game with better controls and a more fleshed out narrative, and whether the graphics are better is up to personal taste. I think they are given all the artwork and more detailed backgrounds. Its "more polished" in the sense that it is an utterly linear affair with a bizarre and unfitting narrative that eventually lead to Other M. The bosses etc are far less detailed and more stylised and cartoony, and particle effects aren't as good in general. The controls are markedly worse than SM simply by being on a console with only 2 face buttons, and mechanically are not "better". Its a much shorter game on first play through no matter how fast SM can be run once you know what you're doing. The claim that GBA games are "better, typically longer games with better graphics" is just ridiculous seeing as the GBA is limited to the same layer and sprite limits as the SNES, on a smaller screen, and you have things like the yoshis island port running straight up worse than the original at a reduced resolution. Claiming they are also "better and longer" is pure conjecture! Why are GBA games better? Typically longer based on what? I don't think its a ridiculous idea that GBA games, generally, should be priced lower than SNES games. They even said "SNES prices on premium games". There were a poo poo ton of short small games on the GBA because it was a handheld, not a home console.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:53
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There were very short games on SNES as well, and pretty long games on GBA. The Fire Emblem games come to mind.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:56
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Even more reason why Nintendo's flat-rate philosophy on game prices is a pile of crap.
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Apr 5, 2014 18:59
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nippon nifties posted:Metroid Fusion isn't as good of a Metroid game as Super Metroid but it is far and away a much more fun game. I find that SM's open-endedness makes for a much more fun experience, but to each their own.
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Apr 5, 2014 19:04
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Install Windows posted:Even more reason why Nintendo's flat-rate philosophy on game prices is a pile of crap.
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Apr 5, 2014 19:06
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Install Windows posted:Even more reason why Nintendo's flat-rate philosophy on game prices is a pile of crap. Er, GBA games cost way more than 8 bucks back in the day. AHungryRobot posted:I find that SM's open-endedness makes for a much more fun experience, but to each their own. It's less fun if you realize you missed the Charging beam and don't have a way to go back 
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Apr 5, 2014 19:06
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Kurtofan posted:Er, GBA games cost way more than 8 bucks back in the day. And SNES games cost even more. As did NES games. None of this is reflected in the VC pricing.
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Apr 5, 2014 19:10
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greatn posted:Most GBA games from Nintendo are exceedingly more polished and content rich games then their SNES games. Why would they be less than SNES games? They're better, typically longer games with better graphics. The three released so far, Metroid Fusion, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga, and Advance Wars are better than 95% of the SNES library and definitely worth $8. They should be equal or less in price because Nintendo are in a pretty bad situation right now, and their digital prices are generally higher than their competitors. Poor market share and uncompetitive prices are usually a terrible recipe for success. I don't think I would be stupid if I'd say that a lot of potential customers wouldn't agree that these games are worth $8.
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Apr 5, 2014 21:01
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I love both Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, but for entirely different reasons. Fusion is much more of an action game, with snappier controls, much more powerful enemies and bosses, and a more finely tuned difficulty curve. This means that if you get stuck on Nightmare, you just have to get good enough to beat him, rather than look for some energy tanks to survive the fight. I think that GBA games should be the same value as SNES ones, but the overall pricing scheme needs to be changed.
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Apr 5, 2014 21:19
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I think 8 for SNES games is too high a price too! I mean when PS2 games are $9.99 on PSN having 16 bit games be 8 is pretty crazy. I think an 8-9 monthly subscription rate to play a select amount of SNES/GBA games would be a better price strategy and probably would make Nintendo more money than overpricing VC titles but that would involve an actual modern internet strategy soooooooooo
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Apr 6, 2014 00:25
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SatoshiMiwa posted:I think 8 for SNES games is too high a price too! I mean when PS2 games are $9.99 on PSN having 16 bit games be 8 is pretty crazy. Christ, most PS1 games are what, six bucks?
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Apr 6, 2014 01:08
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Quest For Glory II posted:Don't even encourage them, they already put a magic tax on Earthbound because it's "rare" (it's a loving digital rom) They did include a digitized version of the entire players guide.
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Apr 6, 2014 01:15
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Kurtofan posted:Er, GBA games cost way more than 8 bucks back in the day. Yeah they could have charged 40 dollars for them but they didn't, so we should count ourselves lucky!
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Apr 6, 2014 01:35
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OatmealRaisin posted:Christ, most PS1 games are what, six bucks? There was a sale not too long ago where Tomb Raider I and II were 89p, and all the later ones were £1.79. You could get all five Tomb Raider games for £7.15. PS2 games often get discounted from £7.99 to £3.99 as well, and usually with an extra 10% discount from PS+. Nintendo were on the right track with the 30 cent promotion, but I wonder if their Wii store was even capable of having sales. Both Microsoft and Sony's online stores are a struggle to maintain, in Microsoft's case it's difficult to have a temporary price reduction, and in Sony's case they pretty much have to reupload the store from scratch for each weekly update. Nintendo have nothing to lose by putting their VC games on sale. They think that by having good games come out at a trickle, people will check the store after each update for a game they would want, but instead it's easier to just ignore it for a few months until you've heard elsewhere that the game you want has come out. What they should be doing is having most of the games available from the start, and rotate which ones are discounted. You could either pay full price for the game you want right now, or you could grab a bunch of discounted games for the same price.
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Apr 6, 2014 02:14
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I'm just imagining that their solution to marking down the price for VC games will be to adopt their Rusty tactics. You listen to a Nintendo developer talk to you about how at fifty years old their marital life has hit the skids and they discount the price of a GBA game to a dollar-fifty.
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Apr 6, 2014 02:36
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I have no problem paying the current VC prices for quality games like Metroid Fusion, Yoshi's Island, or Super Mario Bros. Those are great games, and I know I will play them through again. My issue comes when they want to charge those same prices for Pinball or Baseball of DK Jr. Games that would be impulse buys for me at 30 cents suddenly become something I have to think about which is not good. So I don't buy them at all. It probably doesn't help that you have people that helped make games like Balloon Fight running the company, and it's clear that those lovely early NES games get held to some higher standard because of it, it's in Nintendo Land, NES Remix, and the first game on 30 cent promotion.
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Apr 6, 2014 04:36
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Haha yeah, I always figured Iwata had something to do with the prominent placing of Balloon Fight these days. Back in the NES heyday, that game was located alongside Urban Champion and Clu Clu Land in the "never even heard of it except for it being on that little foldout poster packaged inside every game" category.
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Apr 6, 2014 04:45
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Balloon Fight is a legit good game. Not worth $5 or anything, but better than the other early NES arcadey games. Donkey Kong, Clu Clu Land, Ice Climbers, Pinball, Golf, etc don't hold a candle to it. It's Joust but better, and at the same time the first* endless runner, better than almost all modern endless runners. Iwata does seem to think that group of games is some kind of golden era, though, as it seems like they've way overpromoted them. They put one of those up a week because they somehow honestly believe they are top tier Nintendo games. Maybe in Japan they are or something. The eShop is actually a fairly good store for sellers by the way. They can set their own prices at any time, have some autonomy to create sales with conditionals like "buy X and get Y for Z% off", and patching or putting a new version up is somewhere between "free" and "very reasonable much less than Xbox Live". *not literally greatn fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 05:00
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Megadrive/Genesis games are 10 for $7.50 on Steam or $2.50 individually. That seems like a more realistic price for 16 bit games.
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Apr 6, 2014 10:20
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greatn posted:Balloon Fight is a legit good game. Not worth $5 or anything, but better than the other early NES arcadey games. Donkey Kong, Clu Clu Land, Ice Climbers, Pinball, Golf, etc don't hold a candle to it. It's Joust but better, and at the same time the first* endless runner, better than almost all modern endless runners. I played a lot of these for the first time in Animal Crossing, and Balloon Fight was definitely one of my favourites. Excitebike was a lot of fun too, especially messing around with the track creator. Clu Clu Land was good, and they even included the FDS-only sequel The best ones were Punch Out, The Legend of Zelda, and Super Mario Bros. The latter two required a cheat device, which I was already using to play the imported US copy, while Punch Out could be acquired by creating a new town with certain parameters, visiting the GBA island, burying the game, then going back to the island with your own character to dig it up. This was back when even asking about the game being released in Europe on the Nintendo forums would get the thread deleted. Most of the sports games were terrible. Golf had pretty spartan visuals and only let you aim the ball in 16 directions, but was a good challenge. While most of the other games were very early NES titles, they also included Wario's Woods, which is a fun puzzle game where you control a character inside the falling blocks zone rather than controlling where they go directly, and happened to be the last NES game published by Nintendo. Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr are alright for platformers that only have three or four screens, but Donkey Kong Jr Math and Donkey Kong III don't hold up as well. The ones that really held up poorly are Mario Bros. and Ice Climber, because their controls are just awful. There have been a lot of re-releases of Mario Bros. with better controls, such as the one included in SMB3, the one on nearly all the GBA Mario games in lieu of an actual multiplayer mode, and even one on the FDS which they could have used. There were 19 games in total, which would come to $95 on the Virtual Console. You can't even do this with your VC NES games:  
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Apr 6, 2014 11:33
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What's going on there? Are you saying Animal Crossing had built in emulated versions of multiple NES games? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
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Apr 6, 2014 13:33
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I'm glad you guys have figured out the objectively true ratio of bits to $.
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Apr 6, 2014 13:43
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The_Frag_Man posted:What's going on there? Are you saying Animal Crossing had built in emulated versions of multiple NES games? Because it seems like that's what you're saying. yep
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Apr 6, 2014 13:43
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The_Frag_Man posted:What's going on there? Are you saying Animal Crossing had built in emulated versions of multiple NES games? Because it seems like that's what you're saying. He's saying that you essentially got a load of NES games included with the GC version of Animal Crossing, all for the price of a new first-party game on the machine. Or maybe that Nintendo don't have a clue as to how much their own back catalogue is worth or something.
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Apr 6, 2014 13:43
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Also don't forget that Nintendo went from releasing Super Mario All-Stars, a cartridge with 4-5 SNES games depending on which version you got for I think it was $50, to releasing them individually as GBA games for $30-$40 each. Hell, Nintendo's first foray into re-releasing old games were straight emulations of NES games on GBA (which were missing like 30% of their vertical resolution) for a full $30.
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Apr 6, 2014 14:28
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univbee posted:Also don't forget that Nintendo went from releasing Super Mario All-Stars, a cartridge with 4-5 SNES games depending on which version you got for I think it was $50, to releasing them individually as GBA games for $30-$40 each. Hell, Nintendo's first foray into re-releasing old games were straight emulations of NES games on GBA (which were missing like 30% of their vertical resolution) for a full $30. How much can you blame them when Metroid on GBA outsells the vastly superior remake Metroid Zero Mission which loving includes the original Metroid.
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Apr 6, 2014 14:40
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NihilismNow posted:Megadrive/Genesis games are 10 for $7.50 on Steam or $2.50 individually. That seems like a more realistic price for 16 bit games. poo poo, I liked the $30 ultimate genesis collection disc that was 40 Genesis games + 9 unlockable arcade and SMS games.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:02
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It's weird that there aren't any kind of discounted bundles of VC games. Nintendo needs to hire the Valve economist.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:03
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The_Frag_Man posted:What's going on there? Are you saying Animal Crossing had built in emulated versions of multiple NES games? Because it seems like that's what you're saying. They were only included in the games before Wild World on the DS. There were four games before it, although the English release was somewhere between + and e+ in terms of content, such as e-reader support. (N64) Doubutsu no Mori (GC) Doubutsu no Mori + (GC) Animal Crossing (GC) Doubutsu no Mori e+ In the second picture you can even see a Famicom Disk System at the top, while the cartridge games have their original labels and colours. The NES games have their original boxes on top of the system. What was cool was that you could load some of the smaller games on to the GBA, although since it was just stored in RAM it would be lost when the GBA was turned off. There were also some NES games that you could play through the e-reader, which would require several cards to be scanned to get all the data, and it would store the last game you'd scanned so you wouldn't have to do it every time. Nintendo has done so little with console-to-handheld connectivity since then, and you can't even use Virtual Console games you bought on one with the other, even if it's supported by both of them.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:22
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