Hieronymous Alloy posted:I kinda think we should be aspiring for everyone to have, at minimum, a "middle class lifestyle," not merely for everyone to avoid raw hunger. The slow strangling death of the middle class is not a good thing for the country. I'm sorry but nobody who's saying things like "the lesser of two evils" has any right to make the claim that they are an ally of those who are suffering day in day out because "the lesser of two evils", while good enough for them, does jack poo poo for the people who really need the help. So what if they "work" for their living? Do you think a stock broker making $150a year gambling on the third world imploding is an ally? The truth of the matter is that the "middle class" in America is the problem. http://www.amazon.com/Death-Liberal-Class-Chris-Hedges/dp/1568586795
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 05:57 |
|
|
loquacius posted:Basically I'm hobbled in this argument because I don't really understand what the political point is that people are trying to make by vehemently denying that some areas are more expensive to live in than others I don't know, I was only making the point that cost of living varies by location and therefore should be taken into account when trying to judge someone's quality of life based on a static annual income figure. Since I went from living in one of the cheapest housing markets to one of the most expensive I thought my anecdote would illustrate the point. For some reason this has caused certain individuals to lose their loving minds trying to show... what I don't really know. I got a good deal on the place in TN because the local rental market was poo poo at the time due to the entire loving 101st being deployed at the same time, my housing allowance jumped about 5x based on the move if that number makes you feel better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:50
|
|
Jarmak posted:I don't know, I was only making the point that cost of living varies by location and therefore should be taken into account when trying to judge someone's quality of life based on a static annual income figure. You used exact numbers that are bullshit, which is why you were called out. If you make $70k in America (EVEN AS HOUSEHOLD INCOME), no matter where you live, you are doing pretty good. Even in NYC/SF. You have no concept of what poverty is like if you think otherwise. quote:Since I went from living in one of the cheapest housing markets to one of the most expensive I thought my anecdote would illustrate the point. It would have had you been honest quote:For some reason this has caused certain individuals to lose their loving minds trying to show... what I don't really know. That you're full of poo poo? I'm still waiting for you to explain how $450/mo goes as far as $2900/mo in Boston. Maybe some pictures/descriptions of your property (its all good we both know you're wrong anyways)
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
As someone who gets by relatively ok on a low-end teacher's salary in Honolulu, yeah, I'd have to say that if I was making 70k I would have more money than I knew what to do with.
Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Cheekio posted:What bullshit. If living in New York means the first $85k you personally make a year goes to the increased 'cost of living', then how the hell do the millions of people in New York living in poverty do it. I think it's fair to say that living in a middle class lifestyle in NYC is pretty obscene, but being poor and in the bronx/a project with four other people where you uncomfortably split two rooms is generally how it's done. There's no cost of a car if you live in NYC, which subtracts a lot of money from your monthly budget.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:56
|
|
|
And just to be clear, when I'm talking about poverty I'm not saying "as bad as it gets in America" I mean like, drive around Boston and ask some actual poor people who raise families there surviving on <40k/yr serving fast food to your "struggling" family about how you're being pushed out of the middle class.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:56
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:The truth of the matter is that the "middle class" in America is the problem. Yeah, no. I'm not even really sure what you thought I was saying when you responded -- your post read like word salad. Did I use the phrase "lesser of two evils" anywhere? Where are you getting this poo poo? The problem is the rentier class, which (mostly) means the top 1% or .01% (though yes, in some cases people making lower precise salaries, like the stockbroker you mention, is still ultimately making their income off monopolistic rents, transaction fees, etc., and thus is part of the problem. Salary lines are approximations). The solution is to return the excess wealth of the rentier class back to the lower and middle classes by establishing and re-establishing public institutions and government social safety nets. Pitting the remaining "middle class" against the widening lower is just self-destructive; target your anger in the right direction. With the proper supports and public institutions we could have a growing, healthy, and supportive "middle class" again. I almost get the impression that if the American middle class were a single sick human being, you'd be advocating a coup de grace rather than (for example) free medical care. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 19:59
|
|
|
I think one of the issues here is that there isn't much shared experience or knowledge of economic hardship. The media certainly doesn't have it show up, and social stratification means that people may genuinely have no idea about it. My stepmother once expressed horror and shock at the prospect that, while a student, I lived on less than $15k a year (outside of school costs) - it was just inconcievable to her. Education would probably help, though I imagine most of this is well meaning ignorance rather than knowing snobbery.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, no. I'm not even really sure what you thought I was saying when you responded -- your post read like word salad. Did I use the phrase "lesser of two evils" anywhere? Where are you getting this poo poo? Well, until you link a book I can buy as a stand-in for actual conversation, I don't know how I can take you seriously.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:03
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, no. I'm not even really sure what you thought I was saying when you responded -- your post read like word salad. Did I use the phrase "lesser of two evils" anywhere? Where are you getting this poo poo? What poo poo? I'm talking about liberals in America as a whole, who Obama receives wide support from, despite continuing to gently caress the lower classes. quote:The problem is the rentier class, which (mostly) means the top 1% or .01% (though yes, in some cases people making lower precise salaries, like the stockbroker you mention, is still ultimately making their income off monopolistic rents, transaction fees, etc., and thus is part of the problem. Salary lines are approximations). The solution is to return the excess wealth of the rentier class back to the lower and middle classes by establishing and re-establishing public institutions and government social safety nets. Pitting the remaining "middle class" against the widening lower is just self-destructive; target your anger in the right direction. The problem is the remaining "middle class" are pitting themselves against the poor by continuing to hold on to their ignorant viewpoints and espouse support for establishment politicians. quote:With the proper supports and public institutions we could have a growing, healthy, and supportive "middle class" again. I almost get the impression that if the American middle class were a single sick human being, you'd be advocating a coup de grace rather than (for example) free medical care. We live in a democracy. The people voting for the rentier class are the problem. The people in this thread saying "but 90k isn't really middle class in NYC" are the problem. We need perspective, we need people to understand that the poor have been hosed for the past 40 years much harder and it's time to put aside the deterioration of the middle class and actually take action to help those in need. You can sit on your hands and wait for the 99% to rise up into a cohesive force, it's not going to happen.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:I think it's fair to say that living in a middle class lifestyle in NYC is pretty obscene, but being poor and in the bronx/a project with four other people where you uncomfortably split two rooms is generally how it's done. Or you know the literal millions of middle class people living all over NYC, who do not make substantially more than the national median.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
Defenestration posted:Congratulations on being the mayor of west bumblefuck I guess. Is there another 70k job there for anyone else, or would they have to move to a metropolitan center where you can easily spend 25k a year on single family housing? I wouldn't call Tucson, AZ "west bumblefuck" exactly. Though I suppose your accusation isn't entirely without teeth. I moved here from Oklahoma City (truly one of the cheapest metros in the country outside of Shreveport, LA) last year and saw my cost of living rise modestly. There's a pretty spiffy cost of living calculator I found at http://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/, and having entered in a number of the locations I've lived, the numbers seem spot on to me. If you look at its comparison of Tucson and Boston, you'll notice that food is about 30% more expensive, gas is almost 15% more (but I tend to bike instead drive most of the time), and housing is a little more than twice as expensive. And according to this, the median income is somewhat less than the country's at just shy of $45k, so I'm definitely making above that, well above it as a single earner. Tucson's number is greatly depressed by the large number of immigrants, as it's only an hour away from the Mexican border. I'll admit that my salary puts me among the upper middle class here. I'm hardly nobility, but yeah, sure, I've got a huge leg up by virtue of being a privileged white suburban-raised guy with a sexy rust-belt-accented native-English-speaking voice and a high quality education, as opposed to a poor sick Mexican immigrant with no rights and no hope. quote:What I'm saying is some people spend their money badly, and maybe you don't, but that's not relevant in most places, where cost of living is higher than your experience. Seriously, living great on 20 or 25k? Where? It's INCREDIBLY relevant! Having any sort of financial independence has FAR more to do with how you spend than with how much you make. It only becomes MORE relevant if you're living in a high cost of living area! I have a fancy little apartment downtown that costs me $740/mo (you can get an apartment in Tucson for $550/mo with almost twice the space, so I'd say this is quite a luxury), and I spend about $200/month on food. If I inflate those numbers linearly, my annual food/housing expense if I were to move to Boston would increase from $11,280 to $22,212, a difference of $10,932. However, I'd also get a little more money for working the same job in Tucson. I work for the federal government, so we have a cost-of-living salary adjustment built into our payment. And as it so happens, I would get nearly $10,000 more a year under the Boston COLA. Realistically, I think I'd still come out a bit behind, but I bet it wouldn't mean much more than a few thousand less per year I get to invest. While I'm sure that sounds like quite a luxury, I could make even MORE in the private sector as an engineer, especially in Boston. I save money compared to my peers by buying furniture on craigslist and using it until it falls apart (and fixing it myself most of the time thanks to how easy it is to find carpentry-related expertise online), having a car that's over 10 years old with good fuel economy ('03 Honda Insight, 70 mpg) that I barely ever drive (so insurance is negligible), using a reasonable amount of power (reasonable to me is <300 KWh/mo for a single person. I use around 150, personally), doing all my own cooking and brown-bagging it to work, getting my entertainment from nature (biking and hiking) instead of blowing it on bars and casinos, avoiding debt like the plague and paying it off ASAP when I have to carry it, and most importantly of all, riding a bike. I ride my bike EVERYWHERE. I use a bike trailer to haul groceries from the store and I make the 20 mile round trip to work EVERY DAY. The IRS credits .50/mi for business-related transportation write-offs, so based on my 20 mile round commute, I'm saving $10 EVERY DAY I make the commute by bike. As a side-effect of eating healthy and biking 5 hours a week, I also have negligible medical costs. quote:Being middle class is not about being frugal And that attitude right there is precisely why so many of my co-workers, despite the fact that most of them make EVEN MORE than I do, are poor. In fact, being frugal, by itself, can make the difference of an entire financial class for a person. Sometimes more! A household making $40k is poor when not frugal, but can handily live a middle class existence (nice home, no debt, good food, leisure time) when frugal! Conversely, I know some people who make over $300,000 a year, and still live paycheck to paycheck! All because they blow their money on ridiculous poo poo and carry ridiculous amounts of debt. Maybe part of my perspective is because I was just like a lot of the goons here that get made fun of for "considering X times their salary to be 'rich'" back about 10 years ago when I was a professional musician living off of $20k a year myself. When I started my career as an engineer, I decided that I'd only allow my lifestyle a modest bump in spending at most despite making many times as much. As such, I certainly now consider myself "rich", even while I don't fit into my peer group with their fancy BMWs (bought on credit). Instead of keeping up with the Joneses, I'd rather invest my surplus, and be able to retire in about 9 years. I could be even more frugal than I am if I could cure myself of my habit of buying fancy-pants musical instruments. Gotta have SOME vices, right? Anyways, my buddies with the kid who live off of $25k live in Colorado, which according to that cost of living calculator is about 10% more expensive than Arizona. They manage to avoid the daycare fees because they saved up about a million dollars working office jobs and retired at age 30, before having any kids. They entertain the kid by reading to him and playing with him outdoors, avoided the diaper money-trap when he was a baby by using cloth diapers, and trade expertise with their neighbors to get fancy lessons and after-school activities for him. They've got a fantastic blog all about it where they help tons of people from all kinds of situations to achieve Financial Independence. They're quite the outlier, admittedly, and their example doesn't really do much to help the immigrant couple working for two sub-minimum wage salaries with kids. Their story is more useful for the middle class couple who blows thousands on clothes and shoes they hardly ever wear and STILL gripes and whines about how difficult it is to afford kids.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:09
|
|
Justus posted:They've got a fantastic blog all about it where they help tons of people from all kinds of situations to achieve Financial Independence. They're quite the outlier, admittedly, and their example doesn't really do much to help the immigrant couple working for two sub-minimum wage salaries with kids. Their story is more useful for the middle class couple who blows thousands on clothes and shoes they hardly ever wear and STILL gripes and whines about how difficult it is to afford kids. "How to get rich as a white person with well off parents in three easy steps!" "Yes my superior budgeting skills have placed me ahead of my peers" I think my favorite part is the capitalized Financial Independence which has never existed since the dawn of civilization. What they mean is "Solely financially dependent on the macroeconomic structure kept in place by the elite (also ignore the impact of having well off parents please)" down with slavery fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
Justus posted:Conversely, I know some people who make over $300,000 a year, and still live paycheck to paycheck! All because they blow their money on ridiculous poo poo and carry ridiculous amounts of debt. There needs to be an upper middle class equivalent term for being hood rich.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:19
|
|
comes along bort posted:There needs to be an upper middle class equivalent term for being hood rich. "hood rich"- not racially charged! how about stupid?
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
Honestly, instead of trying to define middle class as something is missing the point. Its the same sort of term as "free market" where everyone has their own meaning to them when in reality it is far far more complicated than that. It obfuscates discussion with precisely this moral hand-wringing that divides and frustrates. I'd define most people's concept of "middle class" as "At least I make more than the other guy". Pretty much all of the messaging that comes from media outlets and the "American Dream" as its sold to everyone makes middle class the goal. Which totally ignores any awareness of class consciousness. Perhaps we frame it as working class(most people), professional class(medical professional and other high-end income) and investment class(actually derives notable proportion from owning things alone) for a more accurate view of things? Defining by income percentile across all 50 states is rather daft when you have immense concentrations of wealth that pop up like NYC.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:26
|
|
|
So speaking of action and not just words, if nobody has yet filed for a local township supervisor position at this late date, that's something that politically-aware people who want to make a difference should go for, right? If as nothing else than as a starting point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
Grognan posted:Perhaps we frame it as working class(most people), professional class(medical professional and other high-end income) and investment class(actually derives notable proportion from owning things alone) for a more accurate view of things? We can refine the system further. We can combine the first two into a larger group of people who perform labor as opposed to the ownership class. We'll need snazzier terms of course, perhaps something from French or Latin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:31
|
|
|
Justus posted:They manage to avoid the daycare fees because they saved up about a million dollars working office jobs and retired at age 30, before having any kids. I appreciate you actually looking up the Boston numbers, unlike some people itt, but what in the hell is this?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Defenestration posted:I appreciate you actually looking up the Boston numbers, unlike some people itt, but what in the hell is this?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:"How to get rich as a white person with well off parents in three easy steps!" I won't deny it. But really, let's be honest here, most of the people posting on this forum are part of the target audience. Or am I wrong and are there actually tons of hopeless immigrants, poverty-trap stricken ghetto denizens, or Darfur war orphans that post here? The average poster always seemed to me to be either a privileged STEM guy like me, or liberal arts majors from a privileged background like I was (we're going to call being a musician liberal arts here for the sake of argument). The blog isn't JUST about doing good for yourself as a privileged person in a capitalist country (though that is a good part of it). The other, more important aspect is learning to live a humbler, less hedonistic existence. Personally, I think it is CRITICAL that we teach privileged white people with well off parents how to be humbler and less hedonistic. quote:"Yes my superior budgeting skills have placed me ahead of my peers" Correct! You say it like it's a bad thing. As Hieronymous Alloy told you, we should be aspiring for everyone to have a "middle class lifestyle". The goal here should be to create a society where everyone has "enough". Part of that involves giving more to people in need, but another big part of that is culturally shifting down what we consider "enough" to be. I would have been perfectly happy to continue to be a professional musician if our society hadn't deemed that to be a profession worthy only of lifelong indentured servitude. I'd like us to build a society where people can truly be free to pursue what they wish to without having to worry about basic necessities. e: Defenestration posted:I appreciate you actually looking up the Boston numbers, unlike some people itt, but what in the hell is this? http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/ Like I said, they're outliers. Both got out of school debt-free by 22, and were DINKs for 8 years living on very little, and both of them software engineers at that. Under those rare and ideal circumstances, it's entirely possible to sock away a million and retire at age 30. Not in the cards for most of us, myself included, which is why I'm still in the rat-race at age 34 and planning on retiring at age 43. Justus fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:We can refine the system further. We can combine the first two into a larger group of people who perform labor as opposed to the ownership class. We'll need snazzier terms of course, perhaps something from French or Latin. Ironically I have the most success bringing Marxist ideals to neutral discussions by reinventing the discussion without ever going close to Marxist terminology. Most Americans trigger off of anything indirectly associating with words like "Socialist" or "Marxist". Dumbing it down makes you seem less of a jackass, sidesteps the word appropriation(see the history of "libertarian" outside the US) and let's people actually listen without triggering the Limbaugh reflex.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
Barack Obama does not want Jack Kingston in the Senate and called to tell him as much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmhOVz5Ucx4
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Barack Obama does not want Jack Kingston in the Senate and called to tell him as much. Man, "let me be clear" is really Obama's trademark.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:55
|
|
|
Grognan posted:Ironically I have the most success bringing Marxist ideals to neutral discussions by reinventing the discussion without ever going close to Marxist terminology. Most Americans trigger off of anything indirectly associating with words like "Socialist" or "Marxist". Dumbing it down makes you seem less of a jackass, sidesteps the word appropriation(see the history of "libertarian" outside the US) and let's people actually listen without triggering the Limbaugh reflex. It's almost as though using 150 year old terminology developed in Europe might be off-putting for some people.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Barack Obama does not want Jack Kingston in the Senate and called to tell him as much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:57
|
|
|
Joementum posted:Barack Obama does not want Jack Kingston in the Senate and called to tell him as much. Bonus points for titling the vid in reference to a 2 year old hit pop song, for optimal #youthvote #trending #dogememe #hashtag #socialmedia
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Justus posted:I won't deny it. But really, let's be honest here, most of the people posting on this forum are part of the target audience. Or am I wrong and are there actually tons of hopeless immigrants, poverty-trap stricken ghetto denizens, or Darfur war orphans that post here? The average poster always seemed to me to be either a privileged STEM guy like me, or liberal arts majors from a privileged background like I was (we're going to call being a musician liberal arts here for the sake of argument). Probably most but not all, that's for sure. All this talk about about COL and wages in various places really brings home to me how out of touch I must be with US society at large. Both of my parents were uneducated rural white people (mother had a high school education, father quit school in 6th grade) who never made over minimum wage and at 31 the most I've ever made was as a sergeant in the Army, which I thought was pretty good money but is apparently barely a pittance compared to what most of you guys make. It would probably be depressing if I could really fathom what a $70k a year lifestyle is like in anything but academic terms. I'm cognizant of my white privilege as an immigrant to another first world country but you guys posting about $22k a year in just housing expenses is kind of a mindfuck for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:02
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:You used exact numbers that are bullshit, which is why you were called out. If you make $70k in America (EVEN AS HOUSEHOLD INCOME), no matter where you live, you are doing pretty good. Even in NYC/SF. You have no concept of what poverty is like if you think otherwise. I never said 70k wasn't doing pretty good, I don't think I ever even typed the number 70k in reference to anything. You're arguing with people that don't exist and calling people liars about poo poo that not only do you clearly know absolutely nothing about but isn't even relevant to the point being made. I'm not posting pictures of my loving house, they are both 2 bedroom multi unit buildings, TN was a townhouse and MA is a "Philly" style. Its within walk/bike range of the edge of the Boston subway system. Your indignation is loving retarded because I could find a similar unit for even more money if you tried to live near Harvard or Central. I could find cheaper if I wanted to live in some of the lovely non-updated buildings they market to the local students.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:04
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Or you know the literal millions of middle class people living all over NYC, who do not make substantially more than the national median. Yeah, and I'm just saying how poor people live, I wasn't like, arguing towards any side here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:06
|
|
joeburz posted:Is this some bad gimmick or are you really angry at "liberals" to the point of having to mention it in every post ever. Yeah I am really angry at people who support politicians who continue to enforce the status quo, which means children in my country go hungry, the poor don't have access to healthcare, and large financial institutions like banks and student loan vendors just continue to gently caress the poor over and over again while maintaining a broad level of support from those who describe themselves as "liberal" Jarmak posted:I'm not posting pictures of my loving house, they are both 2 bedroom multi unit buildings, TN was a townhouse and MA is a "Philly" style. Oh boo hoo hoo your anecdote is bullshit get over it http://cookeville.craigslist.org/search/apa?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=apa&query=&minAsk=&maxAsk=&bedrooms=2&housing_type=&excats= http://westernmass.craigslist.org/search/apa?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=apa&query=&minAsk=&maxAsk=&bedrooms=2&housing_type=&excats= Jarmak posted:Keep in mind location makes a big difference, moving from one part of the country to another changed my yearly rent bill from $5,400 to $34,800 for a smaller place. ^ a load of loving bullshit Should I just ignore it when you say incorrect things? Sorry for letting my "autism" flare up, I just figured some level of accuracy would be helpful if we're going to actually debate the impact of cost of living on standard of living. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
Soviet Commubot posted:Probably most but not all, that's for sure. All this talk about about COL and wages in various places really brings home to me how out of touch I must be with US society at large. Both of my parents were uneducated rural white people (mother had a high school education, father quit school in 6th grade) who never made over minimum wage and at 31 the most I've ever made was as a sergeant in the Army, which I thought was pretty good money but is apparently barely a pittance compared to what most of you guys make. It would probably be depressing if I could really fathom what a $70k a year lifestyle is like in anything but academic terms. I'm cognizant of my white privilege as an immigrant to another first world country but you guys posting about $22k a year in just housing expenses is kind of a mindfuck for me. Boston E-5 BAH /w dep is ~$33,600 annual, its what paying for my apartment
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:Yeah I am really angry at people who support politicians who continue to enforce the status quo, which means children in my country go hungry, the poor don't have access to healthcare, and large financial institutions like banks and student loan vendors just continue to gently caress the poor over and over again while maintaining a broad level of support from those who describe themselves as "liberal" Western MA? Are you loving serious with this poo poo? I paid $725/mo when I lived in Western MA ten years ago, its loving farm country.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:22
|
|
Jarmak posted:Western MA? Are you loving serious with this poo poo? I paid $725/mo when I lived in Western MA ten years ago, its loving farm country. It's almost as if TN vs MA is not a good comparison and that one isn't 7x as expensive as the other. Jarmak posted:You're either drunk, high, or no poo poo have some sort of serious disorder, either way I'm done and I apologize to everyone else in this thread for my part facilitating this stupid loving derail. Yeah that's exactly it, you didn't say something that was objectively false, you didn't get called out, and you didn't lash out when the data didn't support your claim. Just another pesky leftist derailing your quest for progress. gently caress the data. Defenestration posted:I can't tell what we're arguing about anymore but obviously the answer is everyone should go be software engineers in Idaho Having done this recently enough, I can tell you that this is not a good idea 
down with slavery fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:26
|
|
|
I can't tell what we're arguing about anymore but obviously the answer is everyone should go be software engineers in Idaho
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:It's almost as if TN vs MA is not a good comparison and that one isn't 7x as expensive as the other. You're either drunk, high, or no poo poo have some sort of serious disorder, either way I'm done and I apologize to everyone else in this thread for my part facilitating this stupid loving derail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 21:51
|
|
|
Just ignore downwithslavery, his entire shtick is shrieking about anyone making more than 100k must be part of the oppressor class when he's an IT guy making that much but he's one of the good guys because he acknowledges that he's part of the upper class. I guess my question is let's say you define 100k as your boundary for the upper class or rich or oppressor class. How does this inform your politics? I still don't get why we should be focused on attacking professionals making low six figures when they're still making a living through labor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 22:12
|
|
shrike82 posted:Just ignore downwithslavery, his entire shtick is shrieking about anyone making more than 100k must be part of the oppressor class when he's an IT guy making that much but he's one of the good guys because he acknowledges that he's part of the upper class. I'm not an "it guy" but yes, I'm willing to acknowledge my privilege and not pretend like I'm subjugated by the ultra-wealthy in any sense of the word. People like me BENEFIT from the status quo, we are not hurt by it. It hurts the poor, and that's why it needs to change. shrike82 posted:I guess my question is let's say you define 100k as your boundary for the upper class or rich or oppressor class. That is stupid/wrong quote:How does this inform your politics? I still don't get why we should be focused on attacking professionals making low six figures when they're still making a living through labor. We shouldn't be focused on attacking professionals. We should be focused on attacking professionals who feel that the concerns they have are more valid than those of the working poor. Those who claim "but the middle class is struggling too, how can I afford to put my kid through college" while food insecurity and access to basic services are real struggles happening down the street. It's a question of perspective (or lack thereof in your case). You simple are out of touch and do not understand the plight of the poor in this country.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
down with slavery posted:http://westernmass.craigslist.org/search/apa?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=apa&query=&minAsk=&maxAsk=&bedrooms=2&housing_type=&excats= ...I'd just like to reiterate that this is a link to the "Western MA" Craigslist housing page in the US Politics thread, which is trollish enough without taking into account that the argument is about how it's really not expensive to live in Boston at all. You realize that's at least a 2-hour commute, right? Each way? Not counting traffic? e: by car too I forgot to say
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 05:57 |
|
loquacius posted:...I'd just like to reiterate that this is a link to the "Western MA" Craigslist housing page in the US Politics thread, which is trollish enough without taking into account that the argument is about how it's really not expensive to live in Boston at all. You realize that's at least a 2-hour commute, right? Each way? Not counting traffic? Well, if he had said "from rural tennessee to Boston" I would have never commented on it other than to say "well, there's more at play there than location". But he said TN to MA specifically, and then threw out some insane numbers ($450/mo vs $2900/mo) which literally could only be true if more than location were at play. The only thing trollish is you not reading what he said and not reading my responses to him before deciding to chime in. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...y2=Boston%2C+MA Better? Now, show me where it says 700% increase in rent prices.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2014 22:21
|
|