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Xom posted:Why doesn't White just extend to B in this variation? Because it lacks kiai.  No, actually because I wasn't really thinking through the variations very well, just playing out whatever seemed natural to me at the time. Now that you point out the obvious flaw, I think B has to wedge in on the other side first instead of starting with the more natural hane. If that doesn't work either, then my leaning move is poo poo too and maybe you're best to come up with another plan altogether.  Anyway, I added the wedge variation here. http://eidogo.com/#b6dtNbS5
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Apr 3, 2014 19:47
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If White descends to 4... Dead? If so, how about a different W 6 (maybe at 23 instead)?
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Apr 3, 2014 20:38
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If White plays that submissively though, maybe just pressing him down and building thickness is enough. Seems to work with Black's apparent omoyo strategy, no? http://eidogo.com/#249O5PzVg
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Apr 3, 2014 20:57
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Bump:Xom posted:
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Apr 3, 2014 23:01
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Hey xop if you're on OGS, fancy getting a correspondence game running? Nothing too heavy just no handi +1day fischer or something 
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Apr 3, 2014 23:57
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Xom posted:
In that case you have to be content with playing M16 next. The result is probably about even.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:58
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Hey xop if you're on OGS, fancy getting a correspondence game running? Nothing too heavy just no handi +1day fischer or something I'm open to all challenges from any level of player, at whatever handicap you like, as long as it's correspondence settings. Just don't try to assess your own skill relative to me, because my moves have pretty big error bars. (I don't think you'll do this, but eventually there will be someone who says "well I'm 5k on KGS but I beat xopods at 2 stones on OGS so I must be 2d" and I don't want to be responsible for that). xopods fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 00:10
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Haha please don't mistake me for Khel or rank obsessed babbies, I just want to play a game of Go and think about my moves and how they can benefit me.
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Apr 4, 2014 00:36
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if somebody actually did say that it would be hilarious though
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Apr 4, 2014 00:39
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In other news OGS are prepping a new forum: http://forums.online-go.com/ Using Discourse, which looks quite nice, even though Jeff Atwood came on SomethingAwful and tried to convince everyone to use it in lieu of what we have here
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Apr 4, 2014 00:47
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http://beta.online-go.com/
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Apr 4, 2014 07:06
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it's as if it's the same site but uggo
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Apr 4, 2014 07:11
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Dunno why they called that a beta since you can't actually play Go on it yet!
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Apr 4, 2014 08:20
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You can! But it's hard to find an opponent.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:07
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Haha please don't mistake me for Khel or rank obsessed babbies, I just want to play a game of Go and think about my moves and how they can benefit me. What's your username, and are you one of the guys I'm currently playing? I signed up for the Honinbo tournament so I've just had like eight games start simultaneously and thus don't know if one of them is you.
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Apr 4, 2014 16:08
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xopods posted:What's your username, and are you one of the guys I'm currently playing? I signed up for the Honinbo tournament so I've just had like eight games start simultaneously and thus don't know if one of them is you. oiseaux, feel free to add me as friend. I'm in the Honibo too, so I'll check in a sec, maybe our paths have crossed!
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Apr 5, 2014 10:13
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Are there any good iOS apps for learning GO?
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Apr 6, 2014 04:20
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goodness posted:Are there any good iOS apps for learning GO? Just use the interactive way to go.
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Apr 6, 2014 04:21
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Next direction of play moment from the same game. After the inside hane at R17 and getting the expected result, I played the footsweep of W1 because letting Black get K18 seemed unbearable, as it would just about settle his group and leave my stones floating and forced to connect on the second line on the left side in gote. Tenuki seemed like an option at that point, but although letting Black push at L17 and cut off one stone wouldn't be nearly as bad as letting him slide to K18, it would make him alive and leave me without enough clear eyespace to be confident of living if Black later cut on the left, so I opted to play my kikashi at W3 at this point (since Black could potentially ignore it later after I've played W5 and lived - if he ignored it now, however, then if he later played L17, I could push through at C13 instead of connecting underneath... there's a big difference between connecting on the second line and living with profit). After W3-B4, then W5-B6 is sente and makes my group pretty well alive, although it also strengthens Black to about one and a half eyes. I don't feel too bad about this though because it's very hard to attack Black groups in this board position, so just leaving him with no territory seems fine; if the monkey jump to O19 later ends up being sente by forcing him to add a move to defend the group after I sweep out most of its eyespace, that's definitely good enough. Likewise, if he adds a move in gote at Q18, that's also fine by me. Following W5-B6, I turn to the bottom side to play the move I wanted to play there all along, making that group bulletproof and starting to aim at invading Black's thin shimari. Black then plays B8, which probably wouldn't have been my move, but I can't say it's bad. Now I do have to start worrying about Black making a huge centre, even if I still have numerous places to potentially make inroads. Where do we play now? Do we dive into the lower right corner immediately? Make further preparations with R8? Or do we tackle the centre immediately, and if so, how?  Note that we may be tempted to play at A, which you'll recall was a move I wanted to play earlier in the game. However, on reading it out, I believe that Black's surrounding shapes are sufficiently powerful that the brute force response at B is hard to deal with. So if you want to play A, be sure to include a follow-up sequence showing how you plan to deal with Black immediately playing at B. Unlike the last two problems, I am not happy with the move I chose in the game and don't have strong feelings about what the right move is. EDIT: Also, as a related positional judgment question, which side would you take at this moment? xopods fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 14:21
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I say play R8 because I feel it gives you potentially another place with which to go into the huge centre black's trying to make and helps you if you decide to invade the enclosure.
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Apr 6, 2014 14:33
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Kheldragar posted:I say play R8 because I feel it gives you potentially another place with which to go into the huge centre black's trying to make and helps you if you decide to invade the enclosure. How would you respond to R8 as Black?
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Apr 6, 2014 14:37
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xopods posted:How would you respond to R8 as Black? R11?
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Apr 6, 2014 14:37
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xopods posted:How would you respond to R8 as Black? Probably something like Q10, S6, or P6 because I never ever play a large knight's enclosure and never see it so I'm at a loss. S6 seems kind of hyppocritical because you're tying to keep a hold of the whole thing which you shouldn't do if you play like that. Q10 seems like I'm making another weak group and I'm going to get pushed up. P6 is eh, but you could settle that stone if you wanted and oh my god now you have a base that you can come into the centre more easily with!
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Apr 6, 2014 14:42
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I think I would play N15. A stone there would threaten to seal in black and link my K/L group, while possibly preparing my position to make a move nearish Q11-R9. If black moves outwards M-L I would follow for a move or two before making my Q-R move. e: and Id prefer to be black, a lot of white stones dont seem to be doing much, and E14 looks damaging to your wall and randomly placed stone e2: I like D8 for black too treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 14:54
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tentative8e8op posted:I think I would play N15. A stone there would threaten to seal in black and link my K/L group, while possibly preparing my position to make a move nearish Q11-R9. If black moves outwards M-L I would follow for a move or two before making my Q-R move. I like this, it's not just about sealing, if B doesn't respond that group looks like it could die pretty easily. And I guess you can force a bit more, say B goes M15 answer with N14. (I'm eager to see xopods destroying this plan)
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Apr 6, 2014 15:04
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Also, instead of A what about E8?
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Apr 6, 2014 15:17
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Symbolic Butt posted:Also, instead of A what about E8? You're still behind black's lines in that case; at least that's how I see it.
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Apr 6, 2014 15:18
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P6 is pretty common but again I think that's wishful thinking. If Black did that and I could settle on the right, further increasing my territorial lead, that would be great. Then Black would probably need like 40 points in the centre to win and I'm pretty confident I could reduce it to less than that. I think a pincer around Q10/R10/Q11/R11 is the right direction for Black, or if he's really going to insist on the centre, a shoulder hit at Q9. The shoulder hit and a higher, wider pincer are pretty simple in terms of their continuations. With the shoulder hit, all the side territory is surrendered to White, along with sente, but Black furthers his goal of a central moyo. With the wider, higher pincer, Black solidifies his corner in the natural course of things and treats his pincer stone lightly (changing the order of moves, it appears as though White had a right side moyo to begin with and responded submissively to a Black invasion), however White is more or less out of danger immediately. So the first question is whether either of these results are sufficient for Black:  If they're not, then Black has to be more aggressive and White will get to invade the corner. However, this is very complicated. What is Black's strongest resistance after W5, and what will be the result? That is a question that's beyond my ability to answer.  The final question, then is, if we feel that neither of the first two diagrams is good enough, and that Black will have to play as in the third, are we willing to get into these complications? To answer that, we have to answer the positional judgment question; if White is ahead to begin with, we don't want to get into a fight we can't read out, but if it's close or we're behind, then this looks pretty good. Finally, if we don't want to get into this, is there a good alternative to W5 that keeps things simple and is sufficient for White? If either (a) we're happy to get into this fight, or (b) we can find a good simplifying line after B4, then I think we could call R8 a good solution to the problem. I'm not sure about either of those things, though. I was sufficiently worried about the prospect of R10 that I opted not to play R8 right away, but like I said, I wasn't happy with what I did instead.
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Apr 6, 2014 15:31
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tentative8e8op posted:I think I would play N15. A stone there would threaten to seal in black and link my K/L group, while possibly preparing my position to make a move nearish Q11-R9. If black moves outwards M-L I would follow for a move or two before making my Q-R move. N15 seems weird and much too direct as the Black group isn't actually very weak, but I'll take a more careful look at it later. My wife's going out and leaving me with the kid now. Symbolic Butt posted:Also, instead of A what about E8? E8 is what I actually played, but I wasn't happy with the outcome.
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Apr 6, 2014 15:35
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tentative8e8op posted:E14 looks damaging to your wall and randomly placed stone This is bad thinking, btw. That "randomly placed stone" isn't randomly placed, it's kikashi. E14 is therefore likely a bad move, since capturing kikashi stones is rarely worth it. You're effectively spending two moves to undo one by your opponent. (It doesn't even cleanly capture as White could potentially push at D14 and atari his way out if it ever became worth resurrecting the stone to reduce Black to one eye again... it's this reduction of eye potential that was the original meaning behind D13 - not random at all.) xopods fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 15:54
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I could've lost a game by 0.5 to 3.5 instead of losing by 30 because a black group was actually alive (Depending on sente) when we both thought it was dead for half the game! Fun stuff. Especially since they're a mid sdk!
AdorableStar fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 17:06
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Symbolic Butt posted:I like this, it's not just about sealing, if B doesn't respond that group looks like it could die pretty easily. And I guess you can force a bit more, say B goes M15 answer with N14. N15 seemed over-aggressive to me on first glance, but it's an interesting move on analysis. Black has reasonable ways of dealing with it, but none of the outcomes seems clearly favorable for him. Furthermore, there is a natural-seeming move he can make at one point which leads to total disaster if White opts to sacrifice N15, so in a non-correspondence game, there's a reasonable chance that it turns into a game-winning trick play. The variations are too complex to show well with static images, so here's an SGF with the variations I came up with. The move in question is Move 58, so start there. http://eidogo.com/#zI5yled4 EDIT: As regards the "tricked" line, O16 instead of O15 at move 65 avoids having the eye falsified and therefore ends up living in sente, but still gets sealed in, so it's still not great. xopods fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Apr 6, 2014 |
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Apr 6, 2014 17:07
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There have been self-atari in pro games before, but how about the deciding game of a title match? http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/41474 That's a $8500 screw up. (also how do women players survive, if they're not winning tournaments all the time jeez)
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Apr 7, 2014 01:12
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Uncle Jam posted:There have been self-atari in pro games before, but how about the deciding game of a title match? This sounds like something cool, but all it understand since starting yesterday is "self-Atari". Did she somehow kill herself?
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Apr 7, 2014 03:25
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goodness posted:This sounds like something cool, but all it understand since starting yesterday is "self-Atari". Did she somehow kill herself? Back up one turn on that viewer.
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Apr 7, 2014 04:00
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JayMax posted:Back up one turn on that viewer. So she played at T19, which took away the extra space that was preventing White from taking it?
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Apr 7, 2014 04:54
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goodness posted:So she played at T19, which took away the extra space that was preventing White from taking it? yeah. Was her match being televised? Im super interested in seeing her dawning realization of what she accidentally did hit her.
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Apr 7, 2014 04:59
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So gross. Go is a stupid game, like all games.
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Apr 7, 2014 05:18
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goodness posted:So she played at T19, which took away the extra space that was preventing White from taking it? Wow. That's a pretty brutal mistake.
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Apr 7, 2014 06:15
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Pander posted:Wow. Yeah, I guess sometimes you are so comfortable with the way you play that you forget to look at the basics.
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Apr 7, 2014 06:46
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