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Based on this, anyone else feel like Rose is a natural diabolist in a way Blake isn't? I'm talking about the talk on diabolists by nature always taking the easy road. It's not a critique of Rose really, it's more just that Blake seems like he has some steel in him that she doesn't, a refusal to bend in certain ways.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:11
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I might have missed it but was this interview ever posted? http://robbieblair.com/interview-with-worm-author-john-mccrae/
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Apr 7, 2014 21:44
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Scorpion 3-2 posted:I might have missed it but was this interview ever posted? Thanks for this. I feel like I've seen it before, but I don't remember it being posted in this thread. Some choice tidbits: quote:I believe in consistency, and haven’t missed a scheduled update yet. Two hundred and sixty-seven updates in two years and a little bit. [This continued to the end of the series!] quote:Worm started off as a way for me to break a bad habit in my writing. I’d spent ten years writing recreationally and never finishing anything I wrote. I’d try to polish and edit the early parts of the work and lose all momentum. I’d burn out, get frustrated with the text and disinterested in the concept, and I’d abandon that particular story or story idea. quote:If I had advice for anyone doing a serial, beyond the idea of consistency and frequency, it’s about backlogs. Writing a serial and taking the time every week isn’t easy. I put in about fifty hours a week just writing, and that’s not always easy. Real life interferes.
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Apr 8, 2014 01:27
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Scorpion 3-2 posted:I might have missed it but was this interview ever posted? That was a neat interview, thanks for posting it. I guess Wildbow is officially confirmed to be a male then after lots of speculation. New chapter is up, at least Blake will have Evan to help him with this one. It was pretty clever getting Duncan removed from the team but the line of questioning he left behind was a nice counter. I'm glad he isn't calling the lawyers, that would probably clear this up in a matter of minutes but I like that he is staying strong.
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Apr 8, 2014 05:37
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SerSpook posted:Based on this, anyone else feel like Rose is a natural diabolist in a way Blake isn't? I'm talking about the talk on diabolists by nature always taking the easy road. It's not a critique of Rose really, it's more just that Blake seems like he has some steel in him that she doesn't, a refusal to bend in certain ways. She's a better/smarter talker too, and all the thinking about rules and footnotes and people trying to trip you in a contract or agreement comes more natural to her, while Blake has to resort into his ever-growing (and understandable) paranoia to double-check everything. Also new chapter: Fuckin' Behaims
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Apr 8, 2014 13:38
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Just re-read the first Cauldron Superpower Summit; Moord Nag is a Teacher thrall! (Worm)
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Apr 8, 2014 17:28
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Namarrgon posted:Just re-read the first Cauldron Superpower Summit; Moord Nag is a Teacher thrall! (Worm) Hmm? How come?
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Apr 8, 2014 17:34
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Affi posted:Hmm? How come? Teacher gave her the ability to understand English. We later learn through Khepri that Teacher always is able to control anyone he powered, even if he said he didn't. There's also a small hint in that chapter where Moord Nag really doesn't want to help fight Khonsu but changes her mind after a Teacher argument.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:40
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Did she survive the ending?
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Apr 8, 2014 17:41
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I'm pretty sure she does. After Khepri almost stroke-kills her. She was part of a poll for most popular epilogue characters, so I assume so. Teacher did say he had a plan. e.Though, in the second summit Moord Nag has an interpreter, so it is possible she managed to shake off the effects. Or a Wildbow retcon. I am re-reading Worm as a preparation for a pen-and-paper RPG and reading it again you find all kind of nice tidbits and foreshadowings. Namarrgon fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 17:45
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Namarrgon posted:e.Though, in the second summit Moord Nag has an interpreter, so it is possible she managed to shake off the effects. Or a Wildbow retcon. “I gave you the ability to understand and speak English,” a man in the group of twelve said. “It wouldn’t cost you anything to use it.” “Ek sal nie jou tong gebruik nie, vullis,” the woman replied, her voice still quiet, though it was flecked with anger, just a bit of an edge. The man sighed, “Well, I could use my power on everyone else here, but somehow I don’t think the offer would be accepted.” Namarrgon posted:I am re-reading Worm as a preparation for a pen-and-paper RPG and reading it again you find all kind of nice tidbits and foreshadowings. I'm currently running a Parahumans campaign myself and I'm finding it slow going creating new powersets for NPCs. Would you be willing to compare notes? Cryophage fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 18:34
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Cryophage posted:“I gave you the ability to understand and speak English,” a man in the group of twelve said. “It wouldn’t cost you anything to use it.” I don't think his thralls need to actually use his powers to get under his spell, although that would certainly be more awesome story wise. Cryophage posted:I'm currently running a Parahumans campaign myself and I'm finding it slow going creating new powersets for NPCs. Would you be willing to compare notes? I'm planning to run them through the main story, more or less in the place of the Travellers, including the just-play-yourself-and-I'll-handle-the-rest and drop them off in the middle of the Simurgh attack while they know nothing about capes. So far I don't think I've transcribed and gave stats to all the existing parahumans and I don't foresee myself needing more in the future. However, the few extra ones I put in are mostly just ripped from other stories; fantasy and scifi. Also random generators for powers and personalities from google are wonderful things.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:04
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Namarrgon posted:So far I don't think I've transcribed and gave stats to all the existing parahumans and I don't foresee myself needing more in the future. However, the few extra ones I put in are mostly just ripped from other stories; fantasy and scifi. Also random generators for powers and personalities from google are wonderful things. Yeah, I'm just using FATE Accelerated, so stats aren't really an issue, thankfully. The tricky bit is just finding ability ideas with the right level of power. Most superhumans I've found from other media tend to have supreme cosmic power limited only by stupidity, and I'd like to have the Eidolons, Legends and Panaceas be the exception rather than the rule.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:32
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Generally, existing characters are better for coming up with a concept rather than a full fledged power. Iron Man -> tinker with a tendency for power armor. Slap on a new name, rip an image from some deviantart page and run a random personality generator. The Fantastic Four make pretty good villains too if you just take their abilities to their raw levels; a brute, a mover/blaster and a stranger/shaker and make up something new for the stretchy guy because he sucks. Again, change their costumes, personalities and motivations and there you go. e. Or say, take this guy I got through clicking a random name in the Avengers list; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot_(comics) Pretty standard superpowers which make him a bit lovely for Worm, so get him to his bare bones; interaction with sunlight. Concussive blasts are a bit overplayed, so say he can make constructs out of sunlight that slowly fade in the shadow. How powerful he is in practice depends on creativity and intelligence. Namarrgon fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 19:43
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Namarrgon posted:e. Or say, take this guy I got through clicking a random name in the Avengers list; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot_(comics) I remember finding this guy, but rejecting him for being too close to Purity. The fading construct bit is pretty neat though! That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. I'm not too hard up for NPCs, mind; I've got about thirty saved up. I could just always use more and I don't mind sharing my own with another GM. Namarrgon posted:...make up something new for the stretchy guy because he sucks. It might not be the phenomenal cosmic power most of his peers enjoy, but with a little thought it can be as effective as it can be horrifying.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:00
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How about Snowflame?
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Apr 8, 2014 21:07
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I always could use more characters for them to get attached to and then kill off in Endbringer events. I don't think the Pact readers here would much appreciate it though.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:16
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Namarrgon posted:I always could use more characters for them to get attached to and then kill off in Endbringer events. I don't think the Pact readers here would much appreciate it though. Yeah, this isn't really the thread for this discussion. Is there one in SA that fits the bill?
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Apr 8, 2014 21:48
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Speaking of Worm, where did the name Khepri come from anyway? I don't remember that name being in Worm itself. I only hear it from people taking about Worm after the fact.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:10
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Pavlov posted:Speaking of Worm, where did the name Khepri come from anyway? I don't remember that name being in Worm itself. I only hear it from people taking about Worm after the fact. Speck 30.7 http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/30-7/
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Apr 9, 2014 04:13
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Oh, right at the end then. I'm surprised I missed that. Gosh, I almost forgot how powerful that ending was. Does anyone else wish it just ended there without the epilogue?
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Apr 9, 2014 04:43
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Pavlov posted:Oh, right at the end then. I'm surprised I missed that. Oh yes, 100%. The epilogue was kind of a cop-out, I feel that the ending was pretty strong but completely ruined with the epilogue. Taylor's epilogue, that is. I liked the Undersiders' and finding out that Grue was dead was pretty sad.
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Apr 9, 2014 15:25
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I really liked the bitter sweetness of Taylor's epilogue
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Apr 9, 2014 15:45
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Oh yes, 100%. The epilogue was kind of a cop-out, I feel that the ending was pretty strong but completely ruined with the epilogue. Pretty much seconding this, Grue was sad, but I couldn't help but feel that the "real" ending, for Taylor, was much more fitting.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:19
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Worm ending chat Taylor being put down by Contessa of all loving people would have sucked. Contessa is the champion of Hard People Making Hard Choices morality, guided by an infallible power that tells her the right choice, no matter the cost. I read a lot of Worm as being a condemnation of that school of morality; the hero arcs, in particular, are basically Taylor trying to follow that school and managing only to make herself and others miserable. The only times she's really happy/self-confident are when she's fighting tooth and nail to find a different morality, that doesn't rely on sacrifice for a nebulous greater good. Whether she actually finds such a system of morality is arguable, and I'd probably even lean towards "no", but the rejection of Contessa's morals is the key point here. As much as Scion winning, Contessa killing Taylor would have been a pointless ending.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:22
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Fetucine posted:Worm ending chat Taylor being put down by Contessa of all loving people would have sucked. Contessa is the champion of Hard People Making Hard Choices morality, guided by an infallible power that tells her the right choice, no matter the cost. I read a lot of Worm as being a condemnation of that school of morality; the hero arcs, in particular, are basically Taylor trying to follow that school and managing only to make herself and others miserable. The only times she's really happy/self-confident are when she's fighting tooth and nail to find a different morality, that doesn't rely on sacrifice for a nebulous greater good. I didn't mind the epilogues, though I would have been fine without them. As for Contessa, I never felt like Hard People Making Hard Choices was really her thing. Contessa is kind of tragic because she pretty much stopped living when she got her power. After that, she was stunted and only did something if her power told her to, so she pretty much had no morality. That's what she needed Doctor Mother for, someone to use the tool she became and that's why I didn't mind Contessa being the one to kill her, unlike a lot of people. The real Ends Justify The Means monster was Doctor Mother, and if she had been the one to kill Taylor, that would have been pretty depressing. Fortunately, she got her karmic demise through a Case 53, the result of her ruthless morality, so that worked out.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:21
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Fetucine posted:Whether she actually finds such a system of morality is arguable, and I'd probably even lean towards "no", but the rejection of Contessa's morals is the key point here. As much as Scion winning, Contessa killing Taylor would have been a pointless ending. But the Contessa ending does reinforce your perceived point on morality: Contessa isn't admonishing Taylor, she's attacking herself. In the end, all of the hard decisions she and Cauldron made amounted to nothing. She sacrificed her family, her morals, her life, for what exactly? With all of her foresight, what all did it matter in the end? Even with all of the pies she had her fingers in, she can't take credit for anything Taylor did. Sans epilogue, I feel that the ending is Contessa coming to terms with her flawed morality. In the end, like Echidna before her, a mad Khepri was too dangerous to let free. But in this case, it was the culmination of the sacrifice Taylor chose to make. And honestly, cheapening that sacrifice is bad enough, but it's worse that they did it by showing us the the premier Bio-Tinker and Biokinetic were both utterly wrong about how the brain relates to power use. Hugoon Chavez posted:Taylor's epilogue, that is. I liked the Undersiders' and finding out that Grue was dead was pretty sad. On the other hand, I got a bit of a kick after realizing that Taylor and the audience had bought the story that Grue had run away to live on a big happy farm in the country. Cryophage fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 17:44
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Regarding the end of Worm, I thought the epilogues were necessary, and Taylor's in particular. She spent the entire series getting shat on, first by the bullies and later by the "heroes". For her to have saved everyone and then get killed by Contessa of all people would have been an enormous "gently caress you" for her entire character arc. Contessa administering the fatal blow would have felt particularly cheapening because of the added personal element that Taylor undermined Contessa's entire existence; there would have been an element of jealousy involved that really would have siphoned away any joy from the victory. For me, at least. Clearly opinions differ.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:34
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Grundulum posted:Regarding the end of Worm, I thought the epilogues were necessary, and Taylor's in particular. She spent the entire series getting shat on, first by the bullies and later by the "heroes". For her to have saved everyone and then get killed by Contessa of all people would have been an enormous "gently caress you" for her entire character arc. Contessa administering the fatal blow would have felt particularly cheapening because of the added personal element that Taylor undermined Contessa's entire existence; there would have been an element of jealousy involved that really would have siphoned away any joy from the victory. For me, at least. Clearly opinions differ. What this guy said.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:57
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I think the reason I prefer the non-epilogue ending is that, if you don't include the epilogue Worm is actually a tragedy. I mean that in the sense of a Greek tragedy. Yes, things end up ok for the world (or what's left of it), but Worm was much more about Taylor than it was about her world. The thing is I really appreciate a good tragedy, but it's kind of a dieing art. Authors seem too eager to shoehorn a happy ending into something, even when it's not thematically appropriate. Taylor's character arc is a long series of sacrifices, but unlike Contessa and Doctor Mother who sacrifice others, Taylor consistently sacrifices herself. She sacrifices her family life, her place in society, her relationship with her friends, her freedom, her moral system several times, and finally her very identity. The conclusion to that kind of arc isn't being whisked away with her presumed dead father, free of the powers which caused her only trouble, to an alternate world where her mother is alive and none of the stigma from her past can follow her. For someone who's really given up everything, death comes off as a lot more poignant.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:58
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Pavlov posted:I think the reason I prefer the non-epilogue ending is that, if you don't include the epilogue Worm is actually a tragedy. I mean that in the sense of a Greek tragedy. Yes, things end up ok for the world (or what's left of it), but Worm was much more about Taylor than it was about her world. The thing is I really appreciate a good tragedy, but it's kind of a dieing art. Authors seem too eager to shoehorn a happy ending into something, even when it's not thematically appropriate. Taylor's character arc is a long series of sacrifices, but unlike Contessa and Doctor Mother who sacrifice others, Taylor consistently sacrifices herself. She sacrifices her family life, her place in society, her relationship with her friends, her freedom, her moral system several times, and finally her very identity. The conclusion to that kind of arc isn't being whisked away with her presumed dead father, free of the powers which caused her only trouble, to an alternate world where her mother is alive and none of the stigma from her past can follow her. For someone who's really given up everything, death comes off as a lot more poignant. Except that it's not actually her mother, she's cut off from all her friends and acquaintances and the struggles that have been her entire world, and she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that no matter what she does in this new life, it will never be as important as what she has already done.
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Apr 9, 2014 22:38
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Pavlov posted:I think the reason I prefer the non-epilogue ending is that, if you don't include the epilogue Worm is actually a tragedy. I mean that in the sense of a Greek tragedy. Yes, things end up ok for the world (or what's left of it), but Worm was much more about Taylor than it was about her world. The thing is I really appreciate a good tragedy, but it's kind of a dieing art. Authors seem too eager to shoehorn a happy ending into something, even when it's not thematically appropriate. Taylor's character arc is a long series of sacrifices, but unlike Contessa and Doctor Mother who sacrifice others, Taylor consistently sacrifices herself. She sacrifices her family life, her place in society, her relationship with her friends, her freedom, her moral system several times, and finally her very identity. The conclusion to that kind of arc isn't being whisked away with her presumed dead father, free of the powers which caused her only trouble, to an alternate world where her mother is alive and none of the stigma from her past can follow her. For someone who's really given up everything, death comes off as a lot more poignant. The problem I have with what you wrote about the end of Worm is that Taylor had given up on life itself. She didn't care about herself, her goals, her morals, or anything; she had already sacrificed everything else about herself, including her humanity and self, to the cause of saving the world. She was ready to accept death after the Universe had consistently denied her everything she had wanted prior to then. For her to get what she wanted right at that point, when what she wanted was to die, would indeed have been poignant. And more than a little dickish. I prefer that she be finally given the chance to get free from under the burden she spent 30 arcs shouldering and live, even if that has to be with the knowledge that nothing from that point forward could ever be as important as what came before. But I'm happy to disagree on that last point. Feel free to make an e-book of everything but the epilogue, give it to people, and see how they react to the ending. 
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Apr 10, 2014 01:40
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NinjaDebugger posted:Except that it's not actually her mother, she's cut off from all her friends and acquaintances and the struggles that have been her entire world, and she knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that no matter what she does in this new life, it will never be as important as what she has already done. And yet with all that happened to her throughout the story, it about as close to a "happy ending" for her as I could imagine without pulling some serious author fiat out of a hat. Edit: Grundulum posted:The problem I have with what you wrote about the end of Worm is that Taylor had given up on life itself. She didn't care about herself, her goals, her morals, or anything; she had already sacrificed everything else about herself, including her humanity and self, to the cause of saving the world. She was ready to accept death after the Universe had consistently denied her everything she had wanted prior to then. For her to get what she wanted right at that point, when what she wanted was to die, would indeed have been poignant. And more than a little dickish. I prefer that she be finally given the chance to get free from under the burden she spent 30 arcs shouldering and live, even if that has to be with the knowledge that nothing from that point forward could ever be as important as what came before. But I'm happy to disagree on that last point. Feel free to make an e-book of everything but the epilogue, give it to people, and see how they react to the ending. What do you mean by dickish? Do you mean like the world being dickish? Because that's kind of the essence of a tragedy. I'm guessing you're not a big fan of those. Pavlov fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 01:42
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It's important to remember that Taylor's ending, alive, powerless, and unknown is the "difficult" choice that Contessa alluded to, rather than the "easy" suicide Taylor herself, at the end, seems to have desired. It's also important to remember that Taylor herself followed a philosophy of "hard" choices and dealing with and accepting the consequences of those choices was very much Taylor's thing over the course of the story. In fact the one time Taylor does make the easy choice (when she leaves the people what's his face ran off with to die) is a choice Taylor dwells on and regrets possibly more than any other choice she made. It is, in the end, fitting that Taylor must continue living with the results of hard choices, but also that someone else, finally after all that Taylor says and does, is willing to make this sort of choice, when previously only the most risk adverse and easiest choices are taken by that individual. Sparing Taylor's life is the right thing to do, but it is by no means the safest or easiest option.
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Apr 10, 2014 02:12
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Pavlov posted:I'm guessing you're not a big fan of those. I'm a bigger fan of redemption, which the character in question seemed to merit. But you're right, I'm not generally a huge fan. On the topic of Pact, I really hope we get a bonus update tomorrow. The ending to that last section just slayed me, and I don't want to wait till Saturday for resolution. Come on, John, write for my amusement faster! 
Grundulum fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 04:07
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Grundulum posted:On the topic of Pact, I really hope we get a bonus update tomorrow. The ending to that last section just slayed me, and I don't want to wait till Saturday for resolution. Come on, John, write for my amusement faster! Nope! Wildbow said in the comments section that there's no bonus update this week.
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Apr 10, 2014 04:31
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NecroMonster posted:- snip - See, I can see what you're describing as being a satisfying resolution for her arc; The problem is, that isn't what the epilogue was. Taylor doesn't end up living with the results of her actions. Khepri was the result of her actions. Going on to live in Earth Aleph actually reverts the consequences of most of her actions, at least the personal ones, and personal sacrifice was more Taylor's thing than just doing what was "hard". The thing with stories about sacrifice though, is that the sacrifices hold a lot less weight if they're not ones that actually last. Heck, the choice to go live on in the epilogue wasn't even a hard one. If she had been straight up told that she had that option, it would have been a pretty obvious decision. But I feel like that really shouldn't have been an option. I mean, I'll cut Wildbow some slack, but it was a pretty hand-wavey resolution. See even right before she gets shot, she says she doesn't regret what she did, only a few things that happened along the way. She understands that she's ruined herself, but also realizes that that's what the world needed, so she accepts the outcome. Then, if the world needs her to die after all that, well, she'd already been willing to give that, and it's really nothing in comparison to what she'd already given. I feel like that's a much more powerful message than whatever it was the epilogue was saying, redemption or no.
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Apr 10, 2014 05:11
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The world needed people willing to do the right thing even if it's loving hard a lot more than it needed Taylor dead. The whole point of the story is that, Taylor was the only drat person actually willing to do the right thing even if it was hard or the consequences for her or others were lovely. Throughout the whole story this holds true. Taylor keeps on doing what she has to do despite everyone else getting in her way or at least refusing to help her. No one else even tries. And then, at the end, not only does someone finally pick up on this loving message, they save Taylor from what she has become as their first act down that road. Despite it being, not only harder than simply killing Taylor, but also risky as loving hell. Seriously, if Contessa can take Taylor's powers away with a bit of long range bullet brain surgery, than they can also be given back. Taylor, alive, powerless or not, is a possible threat to basically everyone alive, but Contessa still spares her life, because it is the right thing to do. Taylor's goals aren't simply to beat Zion after-all, she also wants to make the world a better place, and her effect on Contessa and the choice Contessa made is the real triumph of Taylor's belief more than the defeat of the giant alien man-baby. Look, the story is about Taylor and her sacrifices, but it's also about doing the right thing, about morality, and it's obviously not meant to be a wholly negative take on human nature, if it was, Taylor would have never accomplished anything in the first place. I mean, what is the point of the story if it first posits that self sacrifice and doing the right thing are good, and then goes on to have the main character be the only person who is ever actually capable of that?
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Apr 10, 2014 07:58
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The fact that we have a smart discussion about themes and intents just speaks wonders of Worm. All said, liek the ending or not, I'm just sad it finished. A problem I have with pact is that my expectatives are too high from the start after reading Worm, while it was the exact opposite for the later. I started reading Worm and went from "Well, it's kinda cool I guess" to "ARGHH I NEED MORE PEOPLE TO READ THIS SO I CAN GEEK OUT ABOUT IT". I mean, I have faith in Wildbow and I do like pact, but I wonder if it's ever going to get to Worm levels of awesome.
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Apr 10, 2014 08:20
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Hugoon Chavez posted:The fact that we have a smart discussion about themes and intents just speaks wonders of Worm. All said, liek the ending or not, I'm just sad it finished. Well, Blake is currently trying to unseat an Incarnation while fending off both an alliance of local cabals and several generations worth of literal bad karma and still having the barest clue what he's doing. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem tepid or boring to me
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Apr 10, 2014 09:28
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