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1/3 of Americans have no emergency savings and claim they are in too much debt. It is Americans, Americans are bad with money.
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Apr 7, 2014 17:37
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Does it count as bad with money if it's not so much an immediate bad spending decision but a terrible life decision that will definitely not pan out, losing out on thousands of dollars? And by this, I mean a guy I knew in college just quit his job to be a full time "Team Coordinator" for ACN. I noticed he got into it a while back but he'd always been doing it on the side while working his job. This guy was easily making between $75-85k and then I see his latest Facebook post, "Leaving corporate America and being your own boss is AMAZING! Time to handle paperwork for private insurance lol. #residual lol" This can only end badly. At least he has family to fall back on when he inevitably fails. Also, anything with #residual on Facebook is just kinda sad to look at.
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Apr 7, 2014 18:09
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Pilkington posted:Does it count as bad with money if it's not so much an immediate bad spending decision but a terrible life decision that will definitely not pan out, losing out on thousands of dollars? And by this, I mean a guy I knew in college just quit his job to be a full time "Team Coordinator" for ACN. I noticed he got into it a while back but he'd always been doing it on the side while working his job. This guy was easily making between $75-85k and then I see his latest Facebook post, "Leaving corporate America and being your own boss is AMAZING! Time to handle paperwork for private insurance lol. #residual lol" Where's his old job? If someone dumb enough to fall for an MLM could do it, I can do it.
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Apr 7, 2014 18:11
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Especially an MLM that sells video phones. In 2014. Like Skype isn't a thing. Or Facetime. Or Google Hangout. Or... Any number of applications nobody use because video chat is a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:00
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The people who have lots of success in MLM businesses are great salesmen who would have lots of success in any sales/marketing field. Of course, if they worked for a real business, they'd be helping that business actually sell products to people who actually want or need them. That's the difference between all of these MLM businesses and real businesses: real businesses make money by selling products and services, MLM businesses only make money by recruiting more people to pay to be a part of the business. I watched some ACN video of some really good looking dude talk about his strategy for success in ACN, which was all about recruiting new people. He never once mentioned selling the product. This guy could be a world class salesman, actor, spokesperson or public representative, but he's putting his skillset to use by conning people into giving his organization money without getting anything in return except a membership into the con. I don't even know what the product is after reading about ACN success stories. I'm fascinated by MLMs because I'm in the marketing field (as a copywriter) so I'm tangentially familiar with lots of sales tactics and the anatomy of a successful marketing campaign, but it's shocking how many people don't blink an eye at the idea of making money without any exchange of goods or services. It's an inversion of the idea that there's no such thing as a free lunch. It's saying to yourself, "not only is there such a thing as a free lunch, I'm going to get rich living off of free lunches."
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Apr 7, 2014 19:05
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pathetic little tramp posted:Where's his old job? If someone dumb enough to fall for an MLM could do it, I can do it. Shell. I'm sure this is what a lot of people say, but he's honestly not dumb. He's a pretty intelligent guy that wasn't satisfied with what he was doing and I guess an ACN rep took advantage of that. It's sort of funny and sad but I asked him for proof that he was making more money than his old job and he posted a picture of his ACN checks from last month. They were fanned out and only the top one had the amount shown which was around $700. As if he immediately knew what I was typing up in response, he said that he "made sure not to put the biggest one on the top." Because obviously when someone takes a brag pic of their money, they put the smallest on top out of modesty.
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Apr 7, 2014 20:17
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tiananman posted:I watched some ACN video of some really good looking dude talk about his strategy for success in ACN, which was all about recruiting new people. He never once mentioned selling the product. This guy could be a world class salesman, actor, spokesperson or public representative, but he's putting his skillset to use by conning people into giving his organization money without getting anything in return except a membership into the con.
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Apr 7, 2014 20:30
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tuyop posted:I floss religiously every day and brush carefully and wear my night retainer thing because my teeth were very expensive. And I don't really eat sugar or anything acidic. We're they all at the same dentist? I've heard a couple of stories of propel who had fine teeth switching dentists, and all of a sudden the new dentist discovers all of these cavities that need to be filled despite not being visible on X-ray. I mean I guess any deviation in the surface of the tooth can be called a cavity, and it's a judgment call as to whether something should be filled (you could be nipping a problem in the bud), but it seems like a lot of dentists do go a bit fill-happy to pad their numbers a bit.
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Apr 7, 2014 20:52
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tiananman posted:It's an inversion of the idea that there's no such thing as a free lunch. It's saying to yourself, "not only is there such a thing as a free lunch, I'm going to get rich living off of free lunches." I can't hear or read the word "lunches" without this quote running through my head. Coincidentally it also appies to MLM schemes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQtlPPZ6FFE
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Apr 7, 2014 21:49
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DuckConference posted:We're they all at the same dentist? I've heard a couple of stories of propel who had fine teeth switching dentists, and all of a sudden the new dentist discovers all of these cavities that need to be filled despite not being visible on X-ray. Yup, new dentist. But the old one mentioned a year ago that those problems were there and would need to be filled soon.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:05
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If you join ACN, though, you get to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ler-4LwiaWk
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Apr 8, 2014 23:18
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tuyop posted:I floss religiously every day and brush carefully and wear my night retainer thing because my teeth were very expensive. And I don't really eat sugar or anything acidic. I've got you beat - I went to the dentist recently to discover that I had somehow generated 11 cavities in a year. I had skipped my last 6month due to not having insurance and apparently my teeth crumbled. I have crap DNA so a few cavities each visit isn't surprising, but goddamn. The saddest part was that the hygienist was complimenting me when she did my my cleaning and we were all pretty confident maybe I'd come through this visit with no cavities. But the X-rays revealed otherwise. Now I have to use prescription toothpaste which suuuuuuucks. Meanwhile my bf has never even had a single cavity in his life, and he has the exact same toothcare regimen as me (well, he did up until I got my prescription stuff). Un-loving-fair. (And before anyone asks, yes I definitely had them, she sat me down and showed them to me on my X-rays. She's been my dentist for ten years and she cut me a really solid break on about 2k worth of dental work when I was a poor student, so she's definitely not scamming me - unless she's in it for some crazy long con. I think the story of the dentist who pretends to fill healthy teeth is mostly an urban legend/boogeyman tale, because most dentists I have been to seem to get more than enough genuine work, what with Americans' love of all sugars. It's always seemed similar to 'and did you know emergency workers let you die if you have organ donor on your driver's license!!!' kind of medical paranoia.)
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Apr 8, 2014 23:28
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Bisty Q. posted:If you join ACN, though, you get to do this: I can't remember what thread I saw that in, but yeah, no loving clue what the hell is going on in that video. I definitely remembered the "clients" going all  at the car's loadout. Super professionally presented with the IHOP meeting and gym shorts.
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Apr 8, 2014 23:45
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StrangersInTheNight posted:I've got you beat - I went to the dentist recently to discover that I had somehow generated 11 cavities in a year. I had skipped my last 6month due to not having insurance and apparently my teeth crumbled. I have crap DNA so a few cavities each visit isn't surprising, but goddamn. The saddest part was that the hygienist was complimenting me when she did my my cleaning and we were all pretty confident maybe I'd come through this visit with no cavities. But the X-rays revealed otherwise. Now I have to use prescription toothpaste which suuuuuuucks. Yeah, same here. The hygienist was glowing about my healthy gums and the cleanliness of my teeth. My mother never flosses or goes to the dentist more than once every five years or so and hasn't had a cavity in like twenty years. My dad is crazy about taking care of his teeth and has tons of problems. It's infuriating. Edit: this is really off topic for a bad with money thread, sorry everyone.
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Apr 9, 2014 00:33
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I'm playing a virtual pet game (like Neopets, yeah) and it's astounding how many people buy the premium money currency. Mind you, these aren't well off professionals who just have a ton of money to blow off. These are college students blowing hundreds for virtual pixels. Another person I've talked to is a nurse's aide who spent $200 on a rare item. I'm sure this happens in MMOs and other multiplayer games, but I don't have as much experience with those.
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Apr 9, 2014 00:39
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This is horrible/heartbreaking/amazing. http://igotmyrefund.com People are literally staying up all night refreshing their bank waiting for their tax refund to be deposited.
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Apr 9, 2014 01:02
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i like nice words
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If you get a medical bill and send in a check, but your check never gets deposited and you keep getting bills and then collection letters but ignore them because you totally paid, perhaps you should follow up on that and see if your check got lost in the mail or something before your account actually gets sent to collections and the collectors start calling you. I don't even know how to help these people sometimes.
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Apr 9, 2014 03:35
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Anne Whateley posted:This is horrible/heartbreaking/amazing. I feel the same way about people doing that with their paychecks.
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Apr 9, 2014 03:35
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Bisty Q. posted:If you join ACN, though, you get to do this: Here's one of the "Top Comments" determined by Youtube quote:Although I'm not with any MLM organization, I tend to only accept criticism of any company as long as as the person criticizing can show: 1. That they are more successful than the people/organization they're criticizing. 2. Offer evidence for their claims, pro or against a company 3. Are a credible source I also believe that if a company is as bad as some people claim, others would be leaving in hordes as nobody likes to lose money. Also, the company would've folded or shut down by the FTC.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:05
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Humans are rational actors, and regulators are powerful and care first and foremost about the well-being of the public.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:17
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:If you get a medical bill and send in a check, but your check never gets deposited and you keep getting bills and then collection letters but ignore them because you totally paid, perhaps you should follow up on that and see if your check got lost in the mail or something before your account actually gets sent to collections and the collectors start calling you. It would help if the average hospital (mine) didn't send a high bill, accept payment, then send the discounted bill and tell you to gently caress off when you want the difference back. To say nothing of getting charged separately for the hospital, the doctor and any tests and 3 or 4 times for each. Going to the doctor and getting 12 bills, of which 2/3 to 3/4 should be ignored, is totally normal.
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Apr 9, 2014 14:24
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Bisty Q. posted:If you join ACN, though, you get to do this: that's the guy I was talking about. Here's a video of him talking to a fake crowd of people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfINe-ZXpwU It's all about "Taprooting" which is a euphemism for getting everyone you know and everyone they know to give you $500.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:34
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MickeyFinn posted:It would help if the average hospital (mine) didn't send a high bill, accept payment, then send the discounted bill and tell you to gently caress off when you want the difference back. To say nothing of getting charged separately for the hospital, the doctor and any tests and 3 or 4 times for each. Going to the doctor and getting 12 bills, of which 2/3 to 3/4 should be ignored, is totally normal. This has been my experience as well. With anything else, you would find out what it costs, use the service, and pay the bill when it's due. For anything medical, you have no idea what it costs up front (and nobody can or will tell you if you ask). Then you may or may not get one or more bills in a month or four. This bill may or may not have had your insurance adjustments applied to it. And this bill doesn't have a due date listed. You can also check with your insurance company because they'll know who they've received claims from and who they've made payments to, but all they can really tell you is that "you might owe $$ to Dr X". Sometimes the provider will bill you this amount, and other times they won't. So if you get a bill that's been insurance adjusted and the insurance company validates the amount, then you can pay it. But in any other situation it's pretty confusing for the consumer.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:41
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tiananman posted:that's the guy I was talking about. Here's a video of him talking to a fake crowd of people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfINe-ZXpwU I'm not sure if that's fake though, there are constantly large conferences for MLM that costs tons of money and are basically mandatory for MLMers and good ways to waste their money again.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:50
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anne frank fanfic posted:I'm not sure if that's fake though, there are constantly large conferences for MLM that costs tons of money and are basically mandatory for MLMers and good ways to waste their money again. They're also how a lot of MLM VIPs make their money, by being glorified motivational speakers.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:01
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Initio posted:This has been my experience as well. With anything else, you would find out what it costs, use the service, and pay the bill when it's due. I keep on getting letters listing services and charges but at the very top it says "THIS IS NOT A BILL" and a few months later I get a letter saying my payment is overdue. Wtf.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:05
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Are they from the same place? The first one might be your insurance statement for the month, and the second might be from the actual medical provider.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:15
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Initio posted:Are they from the same place? I had Kaiser (HMO) so while it was the same place, maybe different systems? Edit: A contribution to the thread: a friend bought a car for her boyfriend (under her name and credit) and he was suppose to make payments. Later, he decided he didn't like the color and so she bought him another car and took the 6 month old one. Guess what happened when they broke up? (she basically had to repo the car and ended up with terrible credit and an extra car.) Stolennosferatu fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 18:29
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Stolennosferatu posted:
When my wife and I were still just dating, she wanted to buy a brand new car. She had been a nurse for around a year, and that's pretty much what new nurses do: buy brand new cars. While looking at cars, she asked me what I thought. I told her it would be best to keep her Saturn for a few more years for a lightly-used car and buy it outright. She still wanted a new one, until she asked me about co-signing for it. I told her that I had seen enough Judge Judy to know what a terrible idea it is for unmarried couples to get loans together. She was mad about it for a little bit, but we bought her a used Matrix after we were married and she's very happy with it. I know that I wasn't about to put my name on a loan for something as unnecessary as a brand new vehicle for a 21-year old girl, when she had a perfectly fine automobile already.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:48
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StrangersInTheNight posted:I think the story of the dentist who pretends to fill healthy teeth is mostly an urban legend/boogeyman tale, because most dentists I have been to seem to get more than enough genuine work, what with Americans' love of all sugars. It's always seemed similar to 'and did you know emergency workers let you die if you have organ donor on your driver's license!!!' kind of medical paranoia.) I've been to 6 or 7 dentists in my life, and two of them wanted to do unnecessary fillings. The second of them sent a letter to my new dentist saying "Zhentar needs a filling done!!!!", which the new dentist just tossed in the trash. I don't think either of them was trying to scam me; they were just being overeager to address small spots of demineralization ("microcavities") which don't necessarily require dental work and can heal through good oral hygiene or flouride treatment. Stolennosferatu posted:I keep on getting letters listing services and charges but at the very top it says "THIS IS NOT A BILL" and a few months later I get a letter saying my payment is overdue. Wtf. "THIS IS NOT A BILL" is an Explanation Of Benefits (EOB) from your insurance (or in this case, Kaiser's health plan division) saying what they've paid to the healthcare provider. The provider then sends you a statement for the remainder, which either you didn't get, or assumed it was also not a bill since they often look quite similar. Zhentar fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 19:23
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MickeyFinn posted:It would help if the average hospital (mine) didn't send a high bill, accept payment, then send the discounted bill and tell you to gently caress off when you want the difference back. To say nothing of getting charged separately for the hospital, the doctor and any tests and 3 or 4 times for each. Going to the doctor and getting 12 bills, of which 2/3 to 3/4 should be ignored, is totally normal. You can contact your insurance company if you overpay and the doctor won't refund you, that's against their contract. But I'm talking about getting the same finalized bill for like $175 for 6-8 months straight. I think maybe people don't know to make sure their checks have cleared. I had a friend from high school have a fit on Facebook because her landlord didn't cash a check for like six months and when he did, it overdrew her account. Everyone was like, "yeah, that sucks, it would have been nice for him to call before he did that, but why didn't YOU call HIM?"
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Apr 10, 2014 13:54
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I don't know who's bad with money in this situation, but at least one of us is. We have 2 kids, one is school age and the other is still a toddler. My wife works from home most days, and only goes into the office one day a week. She watches the baby while she works, and her boss is cool with it. My father-in-law is semi-retired part-time and my mother-in-law has the ability to work from home as needed, so they agreed to watch the kids on that one day a week we needed childcare. Now we've got a problem with my mother-in-law buying too much stuff for my kids, usually clothes. Her behavior on the matter has been pretty insulting (We buy them something, she buys them the same thing but better. We send them to visit their grandparents in a set of clothes, and she immediately changes their clothes into the stuff she bought.) But we've let it pass mostly, aside from occasional requests to tone it down, because it sounds ridiculous to tell grandma to stop spoiling the grandkids. But recently my son has gotten old enough to take an interest in the way he dresses, so we've asked her to stop so that we can go with him to pick out his clothes. Mostly, because we want to share that experience with him, and we want to teach him how to shop and how to limit his purchases. Basically, he has a monthly clothes budget. Also, he has an allowance now and is saving up to buy things of his choice only to have grandma buy him all the little things he has to forgo so that he can buy the one big thing he's saving for, thus ruining the lesson. Each of these things happens only once. But she will distinguish one thing from another in ways that would make a lawyer proud. "Please don't spend so much money on my kids." Ok, she'll buy all the stuff at consignment stores. "That's still too much." Ok, garage sales and Goodwill, or lying about where you got it. "Please stop buying clothes for my kids." Ok, she'll buy them shoes. "Please don't take my kids toy shopping." Ok, she'll buy the toys herself and just have them waiting at the house. Each time she'll feign ignorance and apologize profusely for the misunderstanding. So we recently told her "No, absolutely nothing. Do not spend any money on my kids or give them anything" to eliminate that defense. I realize that it is ridiculous, but that's where we are. So she started sneaking clothes into the house while she was watching the kids and lying to us and saying they were already there. I started sending the clothes back and pricing daycare. At one point, my father-in-law pulled my wife aside and asked her to help them sneak clothes in by telling me she remembered them. Basically, they asked my wife to lie to me. This was the final straw, and now we've enrolled the kids in daycare so we're not relying on them. So basically, we're spending about $500 per month to get them to stop spending $100 per month. But really, it's mostly about parenting my own kids. Still the whole thing seems ridiculous. And, although it's not relevant to my motivation, it seems worth noting that my in-laws are in their early 60's with no savings at all. They have an old-school lifetime pension that would be sufficient to live on if not for their spending habits. And we can support the $500 per month better than they can support the $100. Also, in response to the anticipated question of "Why don't you just ask them to watch the kids at her house?" It doesn't matter for the baby, but she'll make a big show of giving something to my son and talk him up about looking so good in it or how neat it is (if it's a toy). Then he'll bring it home and show it to me, and I have the options to 1) to break his heart to take it away from him, 2) or break his heart and give him a bad opinion of his grandma, 3) or sneak and set a terrible example about responsibility, taking care of your own stuff, and lying. Well played, mother-in-law. Their next step is coming into the house while we're not there, but I've already got a plan to prevent that. My next step is screaming at them to knock it the gently caress off next time I catch them at it. Seriously, who has to fight with their family about buying them too much stuff? The whole thing is beyond stupid.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:19
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It's $100 a month? That seems pretty tame, but I get the sentiment. Also $500 a month daycare is pretty incredible. Is that just one day a week though? Wasn't aware such a thing existed.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:38
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Folly posted:Seriously, who has to fight with their family about buying them too much stuff? The whole thing is beyond stupid. If the tags are still on the clothes, take them back to the store and get store-credit. Then you can sell the gift cards for 70-90% of their face value on Cardpool if they were bought at a chain. Also, after seeing people blow their social security money on lottery/alcohol/gambling my entire life, at least they're putting your kids first! Is this clothes-buying loving them over financially, or are they alright?
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Apr 10, 2014 18:39
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Eh, I don't want to get into it now that I've thought it over. This is bfc not e/n. You're both loving bad with money. How about you put the money you would be spending on daycare toward a college fund.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:44
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I agree that it's odd. Saying "Hey, you're loving up the lesson about finance I am trying to teach my kids. I want them to learn they have to save up to buy items, budget their allowance, and with you buying them poo poo all the time it's really loving up the lesson. Please let me teach my kids this lesson, you can buy them $1200 worth of poo poo on their birthday if you want ($100 a month right?)." should do it.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:46
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So bitcoin is crashing, again, and bitcoiners are once again demonstrating how terrible they are at finances:quote:If you've purchased stuff for bitcoins in the last 5 months, now is a great time to get a discount (self.Bitcoin)
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Apr 10, 2014 18:52
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Folly posted:Seriously, who has to fight with their family about buying them too much stuff? The whole thing is beyond stupid. Why does it bother you so much? It's not your job to police your in-laws spending. My mother in law loves to spoil our kids. We make way more money than she does, but it makes her happy and brings her joy. If she wants to send 100 bucks worth of crap in their Easter baskets who am I to tell another person how to spend their money? It used to bother me when my wife and I were first married. My MIL has worked for Wal-Mart for almost 30 years, and I doubt she makes more than 17 dollars an hour, while my wife and I have nice careers that afford us a very comfortable lifestyle. I used to protest that she would spend so much money on us, but it makes her happy, and it's her money, so I've come to terms with it. I'm not sure what's behind your issue with grandparents spoiling their grand kids, but this is definitely your issue just as much as it is an issue with them. I would sit down and seek out a compromise. Explain you're trying to establish a clothing budget and the associated life lessons that goes along with that. Redirect the spoiling somewhere else, or ask them to save up for a big surprise for a holiday or birthday. Work with them, not against them. Nail Rat posted:Also $500 a month daycare is pretty incredible. Is that just one day a week though? Wasn't aware such a thing existed. With most daycare facilities you're paying for a 'spot'. There are regulations regarding the ratio of kids to adults, so if you're taking a spot, you pay for the entire week. Doesn't matter if your kid is there 8 hours a week or 60 hours a week. When we go on vacation for a week, we get to pay half price for them not being there. Some daycare's allow part time for older children at a reduced rate, but a 2 year old is going to be in a more heavily staffed section of the daycare. I spend about 960 dollars a month for daycare for my 2 kids, and that's considered cheap. The going rate is about 200 dollars a week around here.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:58
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Folly posted:Grandparents spoiling the lesson I think you may be my future. I'm watching my parents do this right now with my niece. My mother undermines all of my brother's requests. ninja: She's not old enough to quite understand the concept of money and saving yet, but it won't be long.
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Apr 10, 2014 18:59
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FrozenVent posted:So bitcoin is crashing, again, and bitcoiners are once again demonstrating how terrible they are at finances: I don't even understand what this guy is trying (and failing) to logic out. He spent bitcoins at X price, and now that the price is crashing, he's buying more bitcoins and that somehow lowers the price of things he bought in the past? Is he trying to apply some sort of cost-basis to his previous purchases? 
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Apr 10, 2014 19:00
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