|
Colton posted:Trip report! That's how I wound up doing the lodge's stews and soups in winter. It had been sandwiches alone for years, and I mentioned that I could go for something hearty one south night - and half the brethren near me immediately sprang on the idea. Next thing I knew, I'm the lodge's soup man. My hope is that one or two of the other members below the age of 60 will decide to start actually cooking as well, even if it's just things like a barbecue outside in summer.
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Practical question: how do you memorise ritual? Mnemonics? Small slabs at a time? Record and listen back? Automotive negative reinforcement? I'm looking for some ways to help myself and other younger members... Also, all of those buildings are magnificent. So opulent. We are soon to move from our lodge hall to a you-beaut new 'masonic centre'. I'll be sad to leave, as it is truly unique as it's single storey and looks just like a big house with gables and 25 foot ceilings built from scratch by the brothers in 1918.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 13:10
|
|
|
Question on a phrase I'm considering on my ring. I'm getting collecting information looking online, so I'm hoping some of you that are in Scottish Rite can answer. The phrase "Ordo ab Chao" is shown in some texts as one of the oldest mottos of Freemasonry, while it is also listed as one of the mottos of the 33 degree. So, I'm not sure if that would be appropriate on my ring.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 13:35
|
|
|
jrgnsn_tjf posted:Practical question: how do you memorise ritual? Say them. If you have cyphers, I copied mine by hands still in code and wrote them out from memory and compared. Recording them would not be okay, I think, but if the grand Lodge has approved a cypher then copying that cypher seems okay so long as it is then burnt or shredded or what not when done. But mainly the best way to learn them is just repetition. Since most of it follows like a conversation, it is not as hard as memorizing poetry and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 14:11
|
|
|
jrgnsn_tjf posted:Practical question: how do you memorise ritual? I broke my lecture into logical "sections" (they're obvious) and just went through a section until I had it. Then I'd repeat the entire thing up to that point. Then it's just repetition from there on. I usually practice on my commute, since I figure if I'm able to do it in rush hour traffic, I'm able to do it in a lodge room.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 14:31
|
|
|
jrgnsn_tjf posted:Practical question: how do you memorise ritual? This is one of our Grand Lodge LEO programs on learning ritual. I've used the ideas in learning my exam materials, and will use it for ritual when I start on that. http://freemason.com/images/leo/Memorization.pdf
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 14:43
|
|
|
I know there is some debate about whether it is ok to write out the obligations to help memorization, especially considering what you are promising in the 1st. I talked to my WM about it at the time, and he said it is quite common to write it out for practicing and memorization, but to be sure to destroy it afterwards. With that in mind, the Obligations tend to have fairly natural breaks and can be split into sections. I typed them out, then took a different colour highlighter to each section. I would memorize chunks at a time, rather than all as one big block of text. When I stood facing the East I was able to go through the coloured sections in my head, "oh, now I'm done the green section, now for the yellow..." etc. It was very helpful for me. I know some guys who have read their memory work into the voice memo feature on their phone, and then listen to it on loop to practice. Seems effective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 14:49
|
|
|
Colton posted:Trip report! To see someone as new to the craft as you are get so passionate about it is really inspiring.  Glad to see that you're getting so into it! I was sort of in the same boat, and decided to write papers, start a blog, and just generally start an atmosphere of study in my local groups. Off topic- I'm going to be in Ocala, FL for a few days (Today through Wednesday) -- anyone a member of a lodge there or nearby? I like to visit other states' lodges.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 15:05
|
|
|
jrgnsn_tjf posted:Practical question: how do you memorise ritual? Repetition. When you are on the toilet, read over the cypher and look away and try to recite a line or two from memory. As you start to remember a line word for word, move on to the next one. Memorize in sections but always start from the beginning of the lecture a few times each time you practice. Eventually it will just flow. Working with someone else is probably one of the best ways to learn. Get someone that knows the ritual and just meet with them once a week and it will just click. Don't forget to bullshit and have a good time, that is also key.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
QPZIL posted:To see someone as new to the craft as you are get so passionate about it is really inspiring. Thanks, brother. Actually, it was reading some of the stuff you put in your blog that made me want to research more and lead me to find papers my lodge would like. One thing I'm really excited about is here in Portland we have esoterika lodge and I was invited to attend one of their 4 big meetings of the year filled with education and philosophy. I'm looking forward to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Colton posted:Thanks, brother. Actually, it was reading some of the stuff you put in your blog that made me want to research more and lead me to find papers my lodge would like. D'aw, shucks.  I'm glad I decided to restart it, I'm at a place in my life where meditation about the esoteric subjects is really cathartic for me. It's helped me with a lot of my own personal issues, in a way that simply going to lodge and watching the rituals has not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2014 21:48
|
|
|
Go this tonight. Not as cool as some of the stuff y'all are doing, but I'm really excited to get it, especially since I only got raised right before Christmas. My goal is to get all 3 by year's end. Apologies for quality, phone posting. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 02:30
|
|
|
So I've been nominated as 2nd Principal for my RA Chapter - quite the surprise, but I am willing and hopefully able to perform the role. Are there any PZs or such who might weigh in on suggestions as to how to best support my 1st Principal - who is also my father?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 02:37
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:Say them. If you have cyphers, I copied mine by hands still in code and wrote them out from memory and compared. Recording them would not be okay, I think, but if the grand Lodge has approved a cypher then copying that cypher seems okay so long as it is then burnt or shredded or what not when done. But isn't writing, cutting etc. Something we agree not to do?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 03:41
|
|
|
I appreciate the responses re: memorisation. I think I might have identified a major difference in the way we do our ritual. In my neck of the woods EVERYTHING is typed out and in a small hardcover book. The only times that the words are omitted is in the case of certain words and small phrases and descriptions. Even so, the first letter of said missing words are revealed (ie jrgnsn_tjf balanced carefully on his toes = j... b... c... on his t....). I have only seen a cipher used in the mark degree.... Or am I on the wrong track here??!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 06:02
|
|
|
SaNChEzZ posted:But isn't writing, cutting etc. Something we agree not to do? If the grand Lodge has seen fit to print something, it follows to my conscience that writing that something must be at the very least tolerable. Not the words. The cypher itself. Writing out the words would obviously be a no go, and if you live in a jurisdiction with no approved cypher, then even writing a single letter would be not okay. Also yeah that's the cypher most places I've seen use. It is the most excellent code because you literally have to know what it says in order to read it. You should remove the detail though on how it works because even though it's not rocket surgery, giving away the secret is no fun. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 06:14
|
|
|
Ours omits the one left in the example there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 12:19
|
|
|
Our jurisdiction uses the small cipher book as well. There's even some segments (like the apron lecture) in plain text.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 13:34
|
|
|
jrgnsn_tjf posted:I appreciate the responses re: memorisation. It depends on the body. My Commandery took the orders and tactics manuals and combine them into one binder in plain text... That was nice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
A local Lodge is having their last meeting on the 90th anniversary of their first meeting. How fancy should I dress?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
1. Are there favored philosophers that are on the general reading list? 2. How are Jungians viewed? His Abraxas (technically Abrasax) concept is problematic if the more humility based relationship with the divine is still present in freemasonry. 3. Does the organization permit epicurean esque hedonism, or is a almost vanguard state of sacrifice for progress and enlightenment in the rituals? 4. You guys have a thing for shapes. Do you even bother with metaphysical platonic solids?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Emron posted:Our jurisdiction uses the small cipher book as well. There's even some segments (like the apron lecture) in plain text. That's how we are as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2014 23:29
|
|
|
SaNChEzZ posted:That's how we are as well. We only give it to our officers line, if that makes a difference. edit: I'm a weird case since I started out as a WV mason and demitted to get my MM once I moved for work. In WV, it was all mouth to ear. I actually learned my first 2 catechisms while chipping golf balls in the front yard with my dad. Ohio does the cipher book, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 00:32
|
|
7thBatallion posted:A local Lodge is having their last meeting on the 90th anniversary of their first meeting. How fancy should I dress? Whatever we say you'll just try to wear a tux. Sithsaber posted:1. Are there favored philosophers that are on the general reading list? No, as victims, it's classified, and possibly. Respectively.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 01:20
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:Whatever we say you'll just try to wear a tux. I skipped. Stomach isn't doing too hot. I'll be there for the thing with the charter, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 01:32
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:Whatever we say you'll just try to wear a tux. W..What? And sorry for the grammatical errors in that post; I'm using a phone Ps: what I meant by that post was to question how many philosophical enemies the freemasons have. I'm pretty sure you guys are still anti commie. Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
My local lodge actually includes a dyed-in-the-wool commie from the 50s, not that we talk about it there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
Emron posted:Go this tonight. Not as cool as some of the stuff y'all are doing, but I'm really excited to get it, especially since I only got raised right before Christmas. My goal is to get all 3 by year's end. Apologies for quality, phone posting. Pennsylvania doesn't even have this as an official title. We should, but we don't. For that, I'm jealous. WAFFLEHOUND posted:No, as victims, it's classified, and possibly. Respectively. shhhhhhhh
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:58
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:W..What? I'm not anti-commie. We've been suppressed by communist governments in the past, but we've been linked (incorrectly) with that crazy Judeo Bolshevik conspiracy theory for ages. I would identify myself as a socialist personally and I find no conflict between that and my membership as a Freemason.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 04:00
|
|
|
I would even argue, myself, that insofar as the goals of any socialist or communist must necessarily include the bettering of others, that Freemasonry holds certain similar values. Our only real ideological enemies are actually fascists and nazis, who aren't big on our three guiding principles. Other groups may declare us to be their enemies - e.g. Islamist politicians, Communists, libertarians, the modern Church - but that doesn't mean we feel the same way towards them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:08
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:1. Are there favored philosophers that are on the general reading list? 1. The Greeks and not the Romans. Which is fine, although in my own practice I more often refer to Seneca the Younger's writings than to Zeno of Citium's. 2. Meh. I haven't read enough of the Red Book or Seven Sermons to the Dead or other Jung to have a solid opinion. I've met Masons who professed Gnostic beliefs and did not express that they had much trouble in reconciling those with our ritual. 3. Neither of those are my thing really. As I understand it Classical Epicureanism resolves the problem of evil in ways that might could potentially be considered problematic by some. It's also rather determinedly materialistic, isn't it? 4. The dice I roll on the astral plane are no one else's business. Though they're generally 20+. Although off hand I can think of at least one metaphysical solid we're very concerned with getting in the proper shape for use. Hope that helps. We really are serious when we tell people they aren't dogmatic answers to most questions regarding Masonry. Another Brother's answers will rightly vary from my own.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:I'm pretty sure you guys are still anti commie. Some of us individually hold anti-communist opinions and we'd all of course have difficulties with state sponsored and enforced atheism. Personally I'm a little bit to the right of Lenin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:34
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:1. Are there favored philosophers that are on the general reading list? 1. Because of the nature of Freemasonry, and because of a lot of the subjects tending toward religious/quasi-religious moral teachings, the "reading list" tends more toward the theosophical more than the philosophical. But, nevertheless, it's a smattering depending on who you ask. I'd say the majority of Masons in my area are more interested in reading about Masonic history than philosophy. But still, it's like saying, "hey, philosophers, is there a general reading list that you favor?" No, because each philosopher is interested in a different subject or aspect within philosophy. Also, "philosopher" is a loaded term here. Are you saying explicitly non-Masonic philosophers? Is there a certain criterium you're looking for? I would argue that Albert Pike, one of the most prolific Masonic writers of all time, is one hell of a philosopher, and I love his writings. I would say the same for Manly P. Hall and A. E. Waite. 2. Uh... the same as anyone else? I'd say that if we were to get into really esoteric Freemasonry, verging on some Gnostic theory, and the idea of Jung's "collective unconscious," then the two mesh really well. I don't know what you're getting at with his "Abraxas concept [being] problematic" - as you may know, some of Jung's later works use alchemy as a framework to explain his ideas, which is a system that has adopted the figure of Abraxas (technically ΑΒΡΑΣΑΞ) as a symbol, which is itself borrowed from the Gnostics. So, suffice it to say, he borrowed the Abraxas symbol from the Gnostics - which, coincidentally, a lot of the symbolism in Masonry came from. And - fun fact! - some late Knight Templar-derived initiatic orders, which are thought to have inspired the ritual aspects of Freemasonry, frequently used Abraxas as a symbol in their seals, stemming from their contact with Gnostic and quasi-Gnostic groups in the East. For example:  3. Well, seeing as how Epicurean Hedonism promotes living a materially simple and modest life, free from fear or pain, and striving to attain knowledge as the source of ultimate pleasure... yes, I certainly would say it's permitted. In fact, that's basically the teaching of Freemasonry boiled down: keep yourself in check, strive for knowledge, enjoy life and the people you live it with. I'm not sure what you meant by a "vanguard state of sacrifice." If you're asking if we practice some sort of monastic abstinence of material things in order to achieve some sort of enlightenment, then no, not at all. 4. Forgive me for being blunt, but this question was asked in a very douchey and arrogant way. Yes, we do "bother" with ideas like Platonic solids. It's not so much that we have a "thing for shapes," it's that a lot of symbolism that goes into our ritual is based on symbolism going all the way BACK to people like Plato (the Platonic solids are present in some form in some of the degrees), like Pythagoras (the Tetractys is very prevalent in Scottish Rite Freemasonry), like Euclid (the 47th Problem of Euclid is very prevalent in Freemasonry), etc. I have a book at home, "Restorations of Masonic Geometry" by H. P. H. Bromwell, that goes very deep into just those subjects. Anyway, hopefully that answers your questions, and I'm happy to answer any more you may have.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:47
|
|
|
Some lodges straight up ask if you're a communist in their entry exams but I believe it's largely to make sure you're not agitating for violent revolution because we don't really like to be associated with that kind of thing and in the US, at least, Masonry tends to be at least somewhat patriotic. As for the other questions: 1) There is not really a preferred reading list. Get you educated, let your conscience sort things out. 2) I always consider "Jungian" such a weird jumping off point, but I think it's because my exposure to Jung comes from two directions, first from psychology, where his ideas become questionable simply because they are a strange model relative to other more "in vogue" models, even within analysis (structural psychodynamics, for example), and then secondly from alchemy, where he did an odd sort of series of turns such that it becomes essential to ask when when talking about Jung. Masonry as a whole, of course, predates Jung by centuries and so doesn't have an actual opinion. He's not addressed in the ancient landmarks. 3) I personally find hedonism of any flavor distasteful, but I'm a Buddhist who renounces craving, so you know, that follows. 4) We "have a thing for shapes" the way most esoteric traditions we have record of have a "thing for shapes." That said, I don't know of many esoteric systems that get "into" Platonic solids in some kind of infatuated way mainly because by the time you're getting to the level of symbolic complexity where you might use, say, a dodecahedron, you've lost a lot of symbolic "oomph." Further, encoded philosophical information or metaphysical information needs to be distinguished somehow in order to keep it itemized. Basic shapes are used to represent fundamental numbered concepts. Triangles, for example, commonly represent, surprise! Triads, such as "brotherly love, relief, and truth" or whatever. But I am not sure that fourth question was asked in meaningful earnest, so I'll let that stand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 06:06
|
|
|
I, too, prefer red lightsabersSithsaber posted:I'm pretty sure you guys are still anti commie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 06:08
|
|
|
I was asked if I am a member of any subversive groups. I responded with the various things I've been involved in, the occasional protest in Seattle, marches, so on and so forth. I think it actually helped my odds. Except the domestic terrorism investigation. But that was some douchebag that just wanted to get back for me calling him names on the Internet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 06:11
|
|
7thBatallion posted:Except the domestic terrorism investigation. But that was some douchebag that just wanted to get back for me calling him names on the Internet. But you showed him. You showed them all! Ahahahahahha!
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 07:04
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:But you showed him. You showed them all! Ahahahahahha! Nah, didn't mention that during the investigation. It was fun actually, the FBI has a hell of a sense of humor.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
QPZIL posted:1. Because of the nature of Freemasonry, and because of a lot of the subjects tending toward religious/quasi-religious moral teachings, the "reading list" tends more toward the theosophical more than the philosophical. But, nevertheless, it's a smattering depending on who you ask. I'd say the majority of Masons in my area are more interested in reading about Masonic history than philosophy. But still, it's like saying, "hey, philosophers, is there a general reading list that you favor?" No, because each philosopher is interested in a different subject or aspect within philosophy. Also, "philosopher" is a loaded term here. Are you saying explicitly non-Masonic philosophers? Is there a certain criterium you're looking for? I would argue that Albert Pike, one of the most prolific Masonic writers of all time, is one hell of a philosopher, and I love his writings. I would say the same for Manly P. Hall and A. E. Waite. 1. Thanks for seeing through my poor wording. 2. The issue with Jung's abrasax stems from the limits of his individuation. There's more than a hint of Buddhist esque severings and reabsorption in liber novus, but his commentaries and narrative hint at a incomplete desire to go all out and let go of his tethers (he tries to take Satan with him into ascension but cannot for example) and instead chooses a kind of arhat/ kind of asura desire to retreat into a inner Brahman dream. He also flirts with the archetypes being more than mental constructs (he and his family supposedly heard the ghosts of all those let down by the incompleteness of Jerusalem) yet ignores the grainy distinctions between outer and inner forces, and cuts ties with the "old god of the age" (which technically is sinning against the holy spirit) Abrasax comes off as twisted, and a dark counterpoint to the Metatron concept. (The former is uncontrolled and overwhelming master of that which birthed him, while the later is purged and gains glory through dutifully transcribing the words of God) Liber Novus kind of ends in disillusionment, and directly leads into Jung's medieval alchemy stage, which I don't know anything about aside from basic myths surrounding the philosopher's stone. All in all, I basically distrust a dualistic super entity like Abrasax (mainly because I see darkness as usually absence and rot) especially due to the uncleanliness attributed to the God. We're conditioned to see the frog as a emissary of antichrist. 3. And if knowledge brings displeasure? 4. I meant the opposite of what you took from that. I've had..experiences...that make me interested in the subject (along with euphoria and cacophony) but no one ever wants to explain these things to me. I tend to get basic Masonic imagery (eye of providence, God as a builder/architect, the wisdom sphinx etc, but the endgames of transcendence leave me filled with trepidation. Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 08:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Took my next step on fulfilling my goal of delivering all 3 lectures in my first year of Masonry: I signed up to deliver the MM at the end of May. I really think I can get this goal. As for weird philosophical stuff, I really am fascinated by the similarity of Masonry to various esoteric organizations through time, especially things like the Mithraic mystery cult way back when. Initiatic degree work is a cool rear end structure, and it's neat to see that Masonry is but a component part (though perhaps the biggest and most successful one) of a long tradition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 14:17
|
|