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the milk machine posted:Just so you know, one of the main reasons people keep dogpiling you is because every single 0L that's "always wanted to be a lawyer" comes into this thread and does the same thing while telling the people who are actually practicing attorneys that they're wrong about the legal market. Oh I know, I alluded to as much earlier in what was what I had intended to be my last post, sometimes my supreme stubbornness is a quality and sometimes its a flaw. And sometimes I'm just bored while drinking my morning coffee and decide "gently caress it one more round" Jarmak fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 15:50
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Jarmak posted:Oh I know, I alluded to as much earlier in what was what I had intended to be my last post, sometimes my supreme stubbornness is a quality and sometimes its a flaw. Please stop arguing on the internet. This discussion is over and we're all in intractable positions. We all hope it works out for you. Soothing vapors, what kind of form errors are we talking about? my first appellate brief got kicked for not including my email address, but I fixed that in a day.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:15
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quote:Half the posts in this thread read like MIT stereotypes of smug Harvard liberal arts people, which would push me toward reconsidering STEM simply for my sanity's sake if not for the realization that sins of the distant past will be included in the LSAC GPA. So I pretty much have to run the board on undergrad GPA which means not taking the easiest route possible seems kind of foolish. If your only concern is law school, a fluffy undergrad major where it's easy to get a 4.0 might be okay, but personally I don't think it's that bad to get a good GPA in STEM majors either. Most people that gently caress up undergrad do it because they're too busy partying, playing video games and generally being out of their parents' home for the first time. The advantage to having a decent undergrad degree is your non-legal job prospects aren't poo poo. Consider some of the starting lawyer salaries in the past few posts that are in the range of 30-50k and then look at what entry level IT folks earn (it's quite a bit more at any sizable corporation), then factor in debt and job satisfaction... at least you'd have that to fall back on. On the other hand, one of our administrators has a JD and a poly sci major for her undergrad.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:18
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Jarmak posted:robble robble The conversation was grades in law school, and you chimed in with "Man I saw these people who put in no effort for class" like that meant anything. It just kind of reveals the  nature of your approach. It's the equivalent of a civilian talking with veterans about combat because they heard some stories from their uncle. "Fine guys, well I trust my uncle more than you so nyah!" It's just kinda cute.Regarding treating optimistic 0L's like garbage, you seem to think there's an axe to grind. There's not, I love my job and everyone like me should go to law school. But parse out how advice should be distributed: If you're the special snowflake, then you shouldn't be asking in the first place and you'll ignore the answers. So advice is irrelevant. If you've got "super trustworthy irl people", then you shouldn't be asking in the first place and you'll ignore the answers. So advice is irrelevant. If you definitely should not go to law school, then advice is relevant and the best advice is to poo poo on your bad decision-making and lack of critical thinking. Never is there a person who asks for advice where I'd say "hell yeah go to law school". If they're asking me on the internet, basically they shouldn't go to law school. See how it works? You're asking us, you shouldn't go. It's a catch-22 that saves you three years and six-figures. If you should actually go, then being shat on prepares you for practicing law.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:23
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If smug Harvard liberal arts people are difficult for you to deal with, you're really not going to enjoy law school.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:45
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The Warszawa posted:If smug Harvard liberal arts people are difficult for you to deal with, you're really not going to enjoy law school. So many times this. I hated most of law school and actually like practicing quite a bit most of the time.bYes, that could be/is because my soul hasn't been sufficiently crushed yet, but still.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:24
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There's this first year that comes into my office so excited about the work he is doing that I just want to murder him.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:25
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I have a few words on the subject of "I've always loved the law." That used to be me. In undergrad I loving loved the law. I majored in poli-sci and took every class relating to the constitution or criminal justice. I followed legal blogs, read SCOTUS cases for fun, and enjoyed getting into huge discussion on the subject with my friends. Then I went to law school. I enjoyed it at first, but eventually I succumbed to the soul-crushing grind. Now as an attorney I do not want to waste one second of my personal time even thinking about the law or other lawyers. If I'd never gone to law school I'd probably still enjoy following the law as a hobby but after the daily drudgery of actually practicing law the joy has been ruined for me.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:29
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The only good thing I ever got out of law school was finding out that in Illinois you can bicycle drunk and not get a DUI. Actually, cops still give them out, you can just win every time due to some mid 90s case law. Hooray I guess.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:31
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Soylent Pudding posted:I have a few words on the subject of "I've always loved the law." That used to be me. In undergrad I loving loved the law. I majored in poli-sci and took every class relating to the constitution or criminal justice. I followed legal blogs, read SCOTUS cases for fun, and enjoyed getting into huge discussion on the subject with my friends. Then I went to law school. I enjoyed it at first, but eventually I succumbed to the soul-crushing grind. Now as an attorney I do not want to waste one second of my personal time even thinking about the law or other lawyers. If I'd never gone to law school I'd probably still enjoy following the law as a hobby but after the daily drudgery of actually practicing law the joy has been ruined for me. YYUUUUP. I think I've posted this before, but I like repeating myself. Let's say I love boats. I loving loved boats for as long as I can remember. I read about boats, talked about boats, etc. So for my first job I wanted to work on a boat. But it turned out that nothing in my job was related to the fun part of boats, it's just a job. After several years, I want nothing to do with boats ever again. Replace boat with whatever: law, league of legends, pegging.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:35
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woozle wuzzle posted:I think I've posted this before, but I like repeating myself. Let's say I love boats. I loving loved boats for as long as I can remember. I read about boats, talked about boats, etc. So for my first job I wanted to work on a boat. But it turned out that nothing in my job was related to the fun part of boats, it's just a job. After several years, I want nothing to do with boats ever again.  Also, tangentially related: http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/14436-honest-career-advice-expert-mariners.html quote:I am a 50 year-old, female lawyer in Phoenix, AZ with no maritime skills. None.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:38
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You know what the Mexicans say about the Pacific? They say it has no memory. That's where I'd like to finish out my life, Red. A warm place with no memory. Open a little hotel right on the beach. Buy some worthless old boat and fix it up like new. Take my guests out charter fishing.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:43
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woozle wuzzle posted:The conversation was grades in law school, and you chimed in with "Man I saw these people who put in no effort for class" like that meant anything. It just kind of reveals the I never asked anybody in this thread about whether I should go to law school, also if you heard some poo poo about combat from your uncle and you trust him you should probably believe him and not some random stranger, the vast mountain of bullshit I've heard soldiers try to pass off as truth by playing the "I'm a vet" card is the largest driver of me not giving much credence to the whole appeal to personal status argument. quote:If smug Harvard liberal arts people are difficult for you to deal with, you're really not going to enjoy law school. I'm practicing edit: Actually its funny you make the combat reference cause making GBS threads all over new guys who are enthusiastic about deploying is like an entire military subculture of douchebags that need to validate themselves. Not to say that it isn't kind of cute when a new guy says that Jarmak fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 17:53
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The perspective about combat you get from your uncle is going to be sugarcoated and family oriented. There's nothing here to gain from any of these people telling you that you're a moron. They don't get their jollies off from saying "yeah, I sure totally boned that guy by talking him out of law school/lawyering/etc." They're coming from a seat of current and relevant experience and are offering advice to seriously help you.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:14
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Mr. Nice! posted:The perspective about combat you get from your uncle is going to be sugarcoated and family oriented. There's nothing here to gain from any of these people telling you that you're a moron. They don't get their jollies off from saying "yeah, I sure totally boned that guy by talking him out of law school/lawyering/etc." They're coming from a seat of current and relevant experience and are offering advice to seriously help you. Really? You're going to in the same breath tell me what someone with combat experience would really say and talk about how I should listen to people with current and relevant experience? Do you fail to see the irony in that statement? And I agree any argument is pretty much done here, positions are set, plans are made.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:25
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Jarmak posted:Really? You're going to in the same breath tell me what someone with combat experience would really say and talk about how I should listen to people with current and relevant experience? "Uncle . . . family oriented . . . nothing here to gain from any of these people telling you that you're a moron." I think you are missing his point where he was talking about the different perspectives of people with no dog in the fight. Even if your point was correct I don't think that's irony either.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:31
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mikeraskol posted:"Uncle . . . family oriented . . . nothing here to gain from any of these people telling you that you're a moron." I think you are missing his point where he was talking about the different perspectives of people with no dog in the fight. Its making a shitload of false assumptions about the nature and context of the advice I'm getting, not to mention its source, which makes it a really bad analogy, but hey bad analogies are what we do here. The fact that that I'm a combat vet with nephews was just amusing to me.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:42
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woozle wuzzle posted:YYUUUUP. For reference, I work as a travel agent and just talk about and book travel all day every day. You know, the thing that most people dream about their whole lives and want to do when they retire? I loving hate it. The only thing that's kept me going is the few times a year I get to take trips for myself and be selfish.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:49
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Please leave the thread so we can resume talking about how awesome our jobs and lives are.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:49
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Most everyone who posts here has been in your position and can talk about it with the benefit of hindsight, and we probably have enough HLS grads to field a kickball team by now. If I read you right, you're not even in undergrad yet. I'd suggest doing that part first and then not taking anyone's advice.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:54
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Jarmak posted:And I agree any argument is pretty much done here, positions are set, plans are made. I'm done you guys. Seriously. I'm outta here. For real, I'm not talking anymore, I'm just amused. Heh. But yeah I'll stop posting. Seriously. Seriously.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:55
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zzyzx posted:Most everyone who posts here has been in your position and can talk about it with the benefit of hindsight, and we probably have enough HLS grads to field a kickball team by now. No, no, let's encourage him to do an undergrad that both won't actually help with law school AND won't wind up making him employable, like a bullshit polisci or pre-law program. I mean, if you can't work hard enough to do well in a real undergrad, you sure as hell aren't going to work hard enough to do well in a law school.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:56
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woozle wuzzle posted:I'm done you guys. Oh gently caress off, you're taking a parting shot at someone for taking parting shots. The last bit or so has turned into a bunch of bullshit of people not willing to give up the last word and you're just as much to blame as I am. But since we've come full-circle to people bringing poo poo up that we've already covered I'm really loving done  that poo poo
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Apr 9, 2014 19:10
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Finally.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:12
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Wait, so we won't see him again in four years? I was looking forward to the subsequent round of repeating ourselves. edit: arguing about the applicability of how well a factual hypothetical compares to the facts of a current situation reminds me of... something.... Oh, that's right. How mind numbing and boring it is to read. Green Crayons fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 19:26
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Please stop arguing on the internet. This discussion is over and we're all in intractable positions. We all hope it works out for you. Kicked during round 2 for wrong font size AGAIN and doing the table at the end wrong AGAIN.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:51
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Jarmak posted:Oh gently caress off, you're taking a parting shot at someone for taking parting shots. The last bit or so has turned into a bunch of bullshit of people not willing to give up the last word and you're just as much to blame as I am.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:53
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Seriously I'm done. Seriously you guys. In other news: I love clients that blame you when the thing you warned them about happened.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:57
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mikeraskol posted:There's this first year that comes into my office so excited about the work he is doing that I just want to murder him. Yesterday, I called a first year who I haven't seen in a while to my office. She was so bubbly and happy before, when she was a summer associate and even as a fresh-faced first year. She came into my office yesterday looking like she was on the brink of suicide. Haunted eyes with dark circles under them. It pleased me. I gave her a project with a rush deadline. Then I went home and played with my dog and enjoyed a warm spring afternoon. It was a good day.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:03
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Hey guys. I currently live in Kansas City. I eventually want to practice law in Chicago or Minneapolis. I received full tuition scholarship offers from both K.U. and Illinois (UIUC). I had already put down a seat deposit/found an apartment at K.U. before I heard back from Illinois yesterday. I guess my question is whether a law degree from Illinois carries substantially more weight with employers than a degree from KU? Money isn't that much of a concern because of the scholarships, although cost of living would be cheaper at K.U. Also, Illinois' scholarship is guaranteed for three years whereas KU's is contingent upon being in the top half of my class. Should this make a difference in my decision? I'd like to think I could maintain a 3.0 in law school, but not everyone does obviously.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:08
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Gus_7 posted:I guess my question is whether a law degree from Illinois carries substantially more weight with employers than a degree from KU? Illinois (UIUC) ranks #40, Kansas ranks #68. Not a major difference at that point, but if you want to practice in Chicago, which do you think an employer would rather see? Gus_7 posted:Also, Illinois' scholarship is guaranteed for three years whereas KU's is contingent upon being in the top half of my class. Should this make a difference in my decision? I'd like to think I could maintain a 3.0 in law school, but not everyone does obviously. Well, it depends. If you aren't in the top 20% of your class after year 1, are you going to write off law school as a fun year and go back to the rest of your life, or are you going to double-down on the law? If the latter, take the guaranteed scholarship.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:14
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ulmont posted:Illinois (UIUC) ranks #40, Kansas ranks #68. Not a major difference at that point, but if you want to practice in Chicago, which do you think an employer would rather see? I mean, UIUC is better ranked, marginally closer to your target market, and guarantees three years of scholarship funding. Why the hell would you go to Kansas? (Also it's still questionable whether you should go to law school.)
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Apr 9, 2014 20:17
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Didn't Illinois get caught inflating their numbers a few years ago?
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Apr 9, 2014 20:23
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UIUC, no question. Always take the sure thing on the scholarship. I graduated highish in my class, but wasn't top 50% after year one. I mean, you shouldn't go and you'll be miserable etc etc, but since you're going to go, pick UIUC.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:24
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Gus_7 posted:Also, Illinois' scholarship is guaranteed for three years whereas KU's is contingent upon being in the top half of my class. Should this make a difference in my decision? I'd like to think I could maintain a 3.0 in law school, but not everyone does obviously. This should sort of be more explicit in the OP, but: exactly 100% of your class goes in thinking they can maintain a 3.0 in law school. Exactly 50% of them will not maintain that 3.0. Also, and this is important, "3.0" is totally meaningless. Some schools curve to a 3.3, some schools curve to a 2.0, it doesn't loving matter. At the end of the day your school will make a curve and half your classmates will be on the wrong side of it. Whether your teacher gives your bottom 51% effort a B or a D depends solely on the school you're going to (and also on the mood the teacher's in for roughly 80% of the bulk of your classmates' almost completely interchangeable essays), but either way you're either top 49% or you're not.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:36
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Gus_7 posted:Also, Illinois' scholarship is guaranteed for three years whereas KU's is contingent upon being in the top half of my class. Should this make a difference in my decision? I'd like to think I could maintain a 3.0 in law school, but not everyone does obviously. You'll probably be in classes with all of the other scholarship students making it a mathematical certainty half of the people will lose theirs.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:49
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Go to Illinois.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:46
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I was definitely under median for a stretch and I'm not actually sure I graduated above median. I wasn't completely loving around either, it was really just one final that I tanked and never managed to make up for. Your mileage may vary but if you're going to the best school you can get into it's plausible that there's a non-zero chance that you'll be in the bottom half there. (I still ended up fine, but I didn't have a GPA-contingent scholarship.)
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Apr 9, 2014 22:38
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I caught myself misusing the word capricious today, it was a moment of great shame.
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Apr 9, 2014 22:38
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Soothing Vapors posted:Man I wish you weren't a Marine. If you were some useless blockhead Army grunt or something I would keep picking on you but I feel bad making fun of an actual hero He is Army.
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